Question:

There were 2 _extra_ passport checks/personal discussions than I’d experienced in the past, for 3 in total, but then it’s been a few years since I’ve flown from AMS to a US destination.

Correct. It is not AMS that is demanding these additional checks, it is the US-based airlines. Sjoerd

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At AMS on your return to Memphis, did you have to go thru mutliple layers of security at the gate?  I was wondering if it’s all flights to the US now or just a CO thing. I’ve flown via AMS many times (NW and KLM) and never had so many checks! This was a CO flight. There was an intial screening agent who checked your boarding pass/passport and asked a couple of questions. Then multiple security officers who took people aside individually to ask a whole slew of questions (where were you, what’d you do, how long, who packed your stuff, where were you when you packed it, who are you travelling with, where is your fiance (the last one came about in discussions of where I packed my bags). THEN another agent who collected boarding passes/tickets. I was waived thru to the next step, but the guy in front of me (I am US citizen, he was EU) was asked to show his passport, return ticket, stubs for checked baggage, and a few other questions. THEN we had to go thru the X-ray. In the past, I’d only had the X-ray and one document check before boarding. All US-based airlines have this strict security at AMS. KLM just asks for your passport and does a second Xray of your luggage. (which doesn’t happen if you fly to a non-US/non-Israel destination) Sjoerd

There were 2 _extra_ passport checks/personal discussions than I’d experienced in the past, for 3 in total, but then it’s been a few years since I’ve flown from AMS to a US destination.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At AMS on your return to Memphis, did you have to go thru mutliple layers of security at the gate?  I was wondering if it’s all flights to the US now or just a CO thing. I’ve flown via AMS many times (NW and KLM) and never had so many checks! This was a CO flight. There was an intial screening agent who checked your boarding pass/passport and asked a couple of questions. Then multiple security officers who took people aside individually to ask a whole slew of questions (where were you, what’d you do, how long, who packed your stuff, where were you when you packed it, who are you travelling with, where is your fiance (the last one came about in discussions of where I packed my bags). THEN another agent who collected boarding passes/tickets. I was waived thru to the next step, but the guy in front of me (I am US citizen, he was EU) was asked to show his passport, return ticket, stubs for checked baggage, and a few other questions. THEN we had to go thru the X-ray. In the past, I’d only had the X-ray and one document check before boarding.

All US-based airlines have this strict security at AMS. KLM just asks for your passport and does a second Xray of your luggage. (which doesn’t happen if you fly to a non-US/non-Israel destination) Sjoerd

Response:

NorthWest is the worst when flying with ‘Partners’.  When I book through Continental, and fly NW, I get my boarding pass, THEN I have to wait in the CO ticket counter line to get my receipt, because NW can’t print it.

Is this problem possibly specific to your home airport? I flew NW on a CO ticket out of DCA a couple weeks ago and all worked smoothly. miguel — Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

Response:

Is it difficult to live a life without a sense of humor?

If there had been even the slightest indication of humour in your own top-posted nagging against the OP, I would happily have humoured you. But there wasn’t. So I didn’t. cheers, Henry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – part of your problem is that the NW borading passes aren’t usable by the KLM readers (even worse if you use the "print it yourself on the net ones) – ran into that last year in AMS myself – had to get "new" passes printed by KLM. Just not a seamless implementation NorthWest is the worst when flying with ‘Partners’.  When I book through Continental, and fly NW, I get my boarding pass, THEN I have to wait in the CO ticket counter line to get my receipt, because NW can’t print it.  NW also lost 45,000 air miles in my account, and refuses to discuss it.  I don’t fly NW anymore.

Interesting, as I fly NWA on a regular basis and have also flown the following partners in the past year:  CO, DL, AS, KL, & UX.  Over the past year I have accumulated many WP miles and have gained platinum status in their FF program. I have not had any trouble with mileage posting other than two CO segments (which were promptly corrected by sending NWA an email) and one segment on UX (Air Europa) which was corrected by faxing my ticket and boarding pass to NWA.  In each case, the problem was corrected within 24 hrs of me contacting NWA. Between 1/1/04 and today, I have already flown close to 25,000 base miles on NWA alone, primarily Internationally.  On occasion I’ll encounter a problem such as a mechanical delay/cancellation or a delay/cancellation because of weather, but I’ve had this happen on every airline I’ve ever flown on a regular basis.  I have never had any problems interlining between NW and it’s partners including KLM via Amsterdam and beyond.   All boarding passes issued upon check-in at my originating airport by NWA; returning, KLM has issued all my boarding passes upon check-in at their stations in Europe. I’ve even had a couple pleasant surprises over the past few months including ‘operational’ upgrades to World Business Class and unsolicited invitations to use airport lounges by KLM. (DALing – I’ve heard the same about boarding pass issues when interlining with KLM, as such I just check-in at the counter when doing NW/KL itineraries; it’s not 100% seamless, but has improved greatly over the past year).  One problem I do have with KLM from time to time is delayed luggage via AMS; luckily I haven’t had my luggage go on walkabout with KLM since last March – but that is an area where they need improvement. I’ve also booked through Continental and flown NW recently (weekend after Christmas).  I was able to check-in at Northwest, received my elite FC upgrades as usual, and nothing unusual happened. As far as a receipt, I print those from home before I leave or obtain one at the time or purchase online, so I’m not sure what problems you might have encountered.  However, I’ve found there is room for improvement in a several areas regarding interlining/codesharing between CO/NW, which is likely why you had trouble getting a receipt at the airport. As far as the 45,000 miles you’ve lost, I’m sorry to hear about it and I’d be quite upset if it happened to me.  When I do have problems, typically sending NWA an email online does the trick 90% of the time.  The other 10% of the time I usually have to make a few phone calls to get things worked out, but personally I’ve been treated quite well by NWA in general. In closing, I’m not trying to discount any problems you may of had with NW, as I’d be very upset not getting 45,000 miles and the airline not cooperating, but my experiences have been quite good and worthwhile of sharing. Best, Steve

Response:

Has anyone had similar experiences – ie bad service overall

trans-Atlantic but good trans-Pacific on NW? I fly NW transatlantic in coach three times a year, and can’t remember any negative experiences, no matter how much I wrack my brain.   My last flight was delayed two hours on the ground in Amsterdam, but this meant that instead of having 3.5 hours to transfer in MSP I only had 1.5 hours, which was really no hardship–but they unsolicitedly put an extra 2500 miles in my account due to the delay! WAIT!  One time about three years back I went into the lavatory before takeoff in my socks, and the floor was covered in urine.   Yuck.   Luckily I had an extra pair of those overnight airline socks that they give to biz travellers with me.

Response:

<snip Has anyone had similar experiences – ie bad service overall trans-Atlantic but good trans-Pacific on NW?

I generally fly CO trans-Atlantic, and have found them to be good in coach, and outstanding in Business/First. I’ve flown NW trans-Pacific and found them to be pretty dismal.  In Business class, they ran out of everything except pasta (which I can’t eat) for dinner, and completely ran out of breakfast — that’s 12 hours in the air with no meal.  I also found myself having to get my own drinks — the call-button was never answered. My wife has flown NW trans-Pacific in coach and has sworn never to do so again. We’ll be flying to Shanghai and Tokyo this summer.  We really have little choice but to take NW (and I want my CO miles).  We’ll definitely do it in Business class, but I’m not looking forward to it. I do still avoid NW domestic flights, if at all possible.

Same here.  I fly CO whenever possible.  If it’s a codeshare with NW, I’ll try re-routing to avoid it.

Response:

I have just returned from 2 weeks in Europe and I would like to share my frustration with Northwest Airlines.I left from Memphis flying into Amsterdam and then on to Copenhagen.Last year Northwest was usuing its partner KLM for the trip.However this year I was not so lucky.To begin with NWA somehow messed up my boarding passes so even thoughmy luggage was checked all the way into Copenhagen,I had to obtain a boarding pass at each stop.This caused major headaches later in the trip as I will explain.

Had a similar problem with a CO-booked flight using KLM this past week.   Anyway,NWA really did itself proud in my eyes and as far as I could tell I was not alone in my disgust.It seems that if we,as taxpayers, are going to continue to be forced to bail out this ailing airlines we should at the very least be treated better.

I am no huge fan of NW (though normally I like KLM’s service and had cause to fly with them due to their partnership with NW), I can relate similar service on NW trans-atlantic flights over the years. And in fact avoided flying NW transatlantic for that reason unless the flight was a KLM flight. However, I have had to fly NW (for a variety of reasons I had little control over) trans-Pacific numerous times in the past couple of years and have been very happy with their service overall. I wouldn’t say they were stellar compared to the European or Asian carriers, but I have zero complaints on that route. They were at least equal to UA on the same route, which may not be saying much of course, but I was pleasantly surprised and would take them again on the same route. Has anyone had similar experiences – ie bad service overall trans-Atlantic but good trans-Pacific on NW? I do still avoid NW domestic flights, if at all possible. Sorry to hear about the delay in customs. I’ve regularly had long delays due to being searched. Maybe in your case it *was* NW’s fault, maybe it was chance. Happens to me often enough I just expect it. At AMS on your return to Memphis, did you have to go thru mutliple layers of security at the gate?  I was wondering if it’s all flights to the US now or just a CO thing. I’ve flown via AMS many times (NW and KLM) and never had so many checks! This was a CO flight. There was an intial screening agent who checked your boarding pass/passport and asked a couple of questions. Then multiple security officers who took people aside individually to ask a whole slew of questions (where were you, what’d you do, how long, who packed your stuff, where were you when you packed it, who are you travelling with, where is your fiance (the last one came about in discussions of where I packed my bags). THEN another agent who collected boarding passes/tickets. I was waived thru to the next step, but the guy in front of me (I am US citizen, he was EU) was asked to show his passport, return ticket, stubs for checked baggage, and a few other questions. THEN we had to go thru the X-ray. In the past, I’d only had the X-ray and one document check before boarding. I don’t mind extra security, but I don’t really get how useful this all is. I mean, how are they likely to detect a potential terrorist by asking such questions?

Response:

part of your problem is that the NW borading passes aren’t usable by the KLM readers (even worse if you use the "print it yourself on the net ones) – ran into that last year in AMS myself – had to get "new" passes printed by KLM. Just not a seamless implementation

I had this problem with a Continental-booked flight that used KLM for one leg of the 3 leg journey (each way). E-ticket booked on CO’s website. CO flight SAT-IAH, IAH-AMS, KLM plane AMS-GVA. Upon departure from SAT, CO couldn’t issue a boarding pass for the KLM leg from AMS-GVA. Not a huge deal as there are plenty of KLM transfer desks at AMS, though the rudeness of far too many KLM desk agents there is frustrating. Surprisingly as their flight staff and agents in other places have always been wonderful. The bigger problem was at GVA leaving: this was an e-ticket. I was told in GVA that KLM doesn’t have e-tickets. Doesn’t make sense as I *know* they do since I used one from BKK-AMS-LHR and back a few months ago. Maybe it’s just the GVA-AMS flights that don’t use them? CO’s desk wasn’t open as they are only there until 9:30am (this was 11am for a 1pm flight). KLM agents spent an hour trying to contact CO to sort it out. They managed to issue me a boarding pass sans ticket for GVA-AMS but I was to get onward boarding passes in AMS. At the GVA gate another problem ensued as there was no ticket…. another call, another 20 mins, finally ok. Fortunately someone somewhere had figured out how to get CO to issue boarding passes in GVA and called me out to the main desk to get them (I was already at the gate, about to board), which was a good thing as the one CO transfer desk in AMS was closed and I would not have been able to proceed through the multiple layers of gate security to even get the an agent in AMS. OTOH, on my NW-rewards booked flight from BKK-AMS-LHR on an e-ticket using KLM flights, I checked in with my NW’s info at the KLM counter, ZERO problems on any leg with e-tix or boarding passes. My fiance will be taking the same GVA-AMS-IAH-SAT flight, e-ticket in a couple of weeks and we’re trying to figure out how to avoid a repeat of this problem. Staff at CO (in GVA) seem to be unable to find a solution at the moment…. I don’t get how they can book flights/e-tickets using partners w/o some consistency between the partners systems.

Response:

part of your problem is that the NW borading passes aren’t usable by the KLM readers (even worse if you use the "print it yourself on the net ones) – ran into that last year in AMS myself – had to get "new" passes printed by KLM. Just not a seamless implementation

NorthWest is the worst when flying with ‘Partners’.  When I book through Continental, and fly NW, I get my boarding pass, THEN I have to wait in the CO ticket counter line to get my receipt, because NW can’t print it.  NW also lost 45,000 air miles in my account, and refuses to discuss it.  I don’t fly NW anymore.

Response:

And in my case NW booked but CO operated flight (codeshare ticket with NW numbers), NW told me I needed to go down to CO for check-in because they had transferred the record – BUT the issue was whether the flight was going to be for qual to GOLD on ALASKA (I collect all my miles on AS) – oh sure NW told me I’d get the miles (because CO is a AS partner, too) but CO miles DON’T qualify for AS elite mileage – so I had to sort it all out with AS after the fact – and got gold for ‘04 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – part of your problem is that the NW borading passes aren’t usable by the KLM readers (even worse if you use the "print it yourself on the net ones) – ran into that last year in AMS myself – had to get "new" passes printed by KLM. Just not a seamless implementation NorthWest is the worst when flying with ‘Partners’.  When I book through Continental, and fly NW, I get my boarding pass, THEN I have to wait in the CO ticket counter line to get my receipt, because NW can’t print it.  NW also lost 45,000 air miles in my account, and refuses to discuss it.  I don’t fly NW anymore.

Response:

I don’t know why you would blame getting searched by customs on NWA.

The simple-minded algorithms used to select passengers for additional scrutiny include selection of those who bought "last-minute" tickets and one-way tickets.  The original poster apparently believes, with some justification, that Northwest’s problems issuing his boarding passes resulted in his record being flagged as last-minute and/or one-way, triggering the extensive search. — Randy Hudson

Response:

…I don’t know why you would blame getting searched by customs on NWA.  You think they single you out to customs and have you searched because you pressed the service button?

Ah, no. That’s not what he said. He (very clearly) said …I am pretty sure that the boarding pass problem is what ran up the red flag on me.

Do try to pay attention. cheers, Henry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …I don’t know why you would blame getting searched by customs on NWA.  You think they single you out to customs and have you searched because you pressed the service button? Ah, no. That’s not what he said. He (very clearly) said …I am pretty sure that the boarding pass problem is what ran up the red flag on me. Do try to pay attention.

Is it difficult to live a life without a sense of humor? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cheers, Henry

Response:

part of your problem is that the NW borading passes aren’t usable by the KLM readers (even worse if you use the "print it yourself on the net ones) – ran into that last year in AMS myself – had to get "new" passes printed by KLM. Just not a seamless implementation

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just returned from 2 weeks in Europe and I would like to share my frustration with Northwest Airlines.I left from Memphis flying into Amsterdam and then on to Copenhagen.Last year Northwest was usuing its partner KLM for the trip.However this year I was not so lucky.To begin with NWA somehow messed up my boarding passes so even thoughmy luggage was checked all the way into Copenhagen,I had to obtain a boarding pass at each stop.This caused major headaches later in the trip as I will explain.  While standing in line waiting to board in Memphis I noticed a small group of young men who were so drunk they could hardly stand.NWA folks allowed them to board and just before we pushed away from the gate one of the attendants finally noticed the drunks.This resulted in them being removed from the plane as well as their luggage.This created about a 90 minute delay.When dinner waqs served the flight attendent brought me pasta and told me that they did not have enough trays or food to serve everyone a complete meal.  When I reported to Copenhagen for the return trip to Amsterdam the boarding pass snafu took a life all its own.I was told to go and speak with a KLM official who took my passport and starting making phone calls.KLM finally got the problem fixed and the flight to Amsterdam was good (KLM was handeling the flight between Copenhagen and Amsterdam).Once in Amsterdam,I had to obtain another boarding pass for the flight to Memphis.The service on the Amsterdam to Memphis flight was the worst I have ever seen.Totally unorganized.The flight attendents simply just quit serving anyone in coach.If a passenger wanted a drink he or she had to get it themselves.I rang the bell to alert a flight attendent about an hour into the flight.The light that indicates I had requested a flight attendent was still on at the end of the flight.The attendents never came around to ask what I needed and the attitude they had was far from friendly.  Once we landed in Memphis I was pulled out of line and spent the next hour and half letting some customs guy claw thru every thing I had.There were about 200 people on that plane and maybe 3 others were searched along with me.I am pretty sure that the boarding pass problem is what ran up the red flag on me.   Anyway,NWA really did itself proud in my eyes and as far as I could tell I was not alone in my disgust.It seems that if we,as taxpayers, are going to continue to be forced to bail out this ailing airlines we should at the very least be treated better.

Response:

It’s not unheard of.  Some flight crew members can get inventive with their pettiness.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only thing I see wrong is the service on your return flight.  I don’t know why you would blame getting searched by customs on NWA.  You think they single you out to customs and have you searched because you pressed the service button? I have just returned from 2 weeks in Europe and I would like to share my frustration with Northwest Airlines.I left from Memphis flying into Amsterdam and then on to Copenhagen.Last year Northwest was usuing its partner KLM for the trip.However this year I was not so lucky.To begin with NWA somehow messed up my boarding passes so even thoughmy luggage was checked all the way into Copenhagen,I had to obtain a boarding pass at each stop.This caused major headaches later in the trip as I will explain.  While standing in line waiting to board in Memphis I noticed a small group of young men who were so drunk they could hardly stand.NWA folks allowed them to board and just before we pushed away from the gate one of the attendants finally noticed the drunks.This resulted in them being removed from the plane as well as their luggage.This created about a 90 minute delay.When dinner waqs served the flight attendent brought me pasta and told me that they did not have enough trays or food to serve everyone a complete meal.  When I reported to Copenhagen for the return trip to Amsterdam the boarding pass snafu took a life all its own.I was told to go and speak with a KLM official who took my passport and starting making phone calls.KLM finally got the problem fixed and the flight to Amsterdam was good (KLM was handeling the flight between Copenhagen and Amsterdam).Once in Amsterdam,I had to obtain another boarding pass for the flight to Memphis.The service on the Amsterdam to Memphis flight was the worst I have ever seen.Totally unorganized.The flight attendents simply just quit serving anyone in coach.If a passenger wanted a drink he or she had to get it themselves.I rang the bell to alert a flight attendent about an hour into the flight.The light that indicates I had requested a flight attendent was still on at the end of the flight.The attendents never came around to ask what I needed and the attitude they had was far from friendly.  Once we landed in Memphis I was pulled out of line and spent the next hour and half letting some customs guy claw thru every thing I had.There were about 200 people on that plane and maybe 3 others were searched along with me.I am pretty sure that the boarding pass problem is what ran up the red flag on me.   Anyway,NWA really did itself proud in my eyes and as far as I could tell I was not alone in my disgust.It seems that if we,as taxpayers, are going to continue to be forced to bail out this ailing airlines we should at the very least be treated better.

Response:

The only thing I see wrong is the service on your return flight.  I don’t know why you would blame getting searched by customs on NWA.  You think they single you out to customs and have you searched because you pressed the service button?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just returned from 2 weeks in Europe and I would like to share my frustration with Northwest Airlines.I left from Memphis flying into Amsterdam and then on to Copenhagen.Last year Northwest was usuing its partner KLM for the trip.However this year I was not so lucky.To begin with NWA somehow messed up my boarding passes so even thoughmy luggage was checked all the way into Copenhagen,I had to obtain a boarding pass at each stop.This caused major headaches later in the trip as I will explain.  While standing in line waiting to board in Memphis I noticed a small group of young men who were so drunk they could hardly stand.NWA folks allowed them to board and just before we pushed away from the gate one of the attendants finally noticed the drunks.This resulted in them being removed from the plane as well as their luggage.This created about a 90 minute delay.When dinner waqs served the flight attendent brought me pasta and told me that they did not have enough trays or food to serve everyone a complete meal.  When I reported to Copenhagen for the return trip to Amsterdam the boarding pass snafu took a life all its own.I was told to go and speak with a KLM official who took my passport and starting making phone calls.KLM finally got the problem fixed and the flight to Amsterdam was good (KLM was handeling the flight between Copenhagen and Amsterdam).Once in Amsterdam,I had to obtain another boarding pass for the flight to Memphis.The service on the Amsterdam to Memphis flight was the worst I have ever seen.Totally unorganized.The flight attendents simply just quit serving anyone in coach.If a passenger wanted a drink he or she had to get it themselves.I rang the bell to alert a flight attendent about an hour into the flight.The light that indicates I had requested a flight attendent was still on at the end of the flight.The attendents never came around to ask what I needed and the attitude they had was far from friendly.  Once we landed in Memphis I was pulled out of line and spent the next hour and half letting some customs guy claw thru every thing I had.There were about 200 people on that plane and maybe 3 others were searched along with me.I am pretty sure that the boarding pass problem is what ran up the red flag on me.   Anyway,NWA really did itself proud in my eyes and as far as I could tell I was not alone in my disgust.It seems that if we,as taxpayers, are going to continue to be forced to bail out this ailing airlines we should at the very least be treated better.

Response:

I have just returned from 2 weeks in Europe and I would like to share my frustration with Northwest Airlines.I left from Memphis flying into Amsterdam and then on to Copenhagen.Last year Northwest was usuing its partner KLM for the trip.However this year I was not so lucky.To begin with NWA somehow messed up my boarding passes so even thoughmy luggage was checked all the way into Copenhagen,I had to obtain a boarding pass at each stop.This caused major headaches later in the trip as I will explain.  While standing in line waiting to board in Memphis I noticed a small group of young men who were so drunk they could hardly stand.NWA folks allowed them to board and just before we pushed away from the gate one of the attendants finally noticed the drunks.This resulted in them being removed from the plane as well as their luggage.This created about a 90 minute delay.When dinner waqs served the flight attendent brought me pasta and told me that they did not have enough trays or food to serve everyone a complete meal.  When I reported to Copenhagen for the return trip to Amsterdam the boarding pass snafu took a life all its own.I was told to go and speak with a KLM official who took my passport and starting making phone calls.KLM finally got the problem fixed and the flight to Amsterdam was good (KLM was handeling the flight between Copenhagen and Amsterdam).Once in Amsterdam,I had to obtain another boarding pass for the flight to Memphis.The service on the Amsterdam to Memphis flight was the worst I have ever seen.Totally unorganized.The flight attendents simply just quit serving anyone in coach.If a passenger wanted a drink he or she had to get it themselves.I rang the bell to alert a flight attendent about an hour into the flight.The light that indicates I had requested a flight attendent was still on at the end of the flight.The attendents never came around to ask what I needed and the attitude they had was far from friendly.  Once we landed in Memphis I was pulled out of line and spent the next hour and half letting some customs guy claw thru every thing I had.There were about 200 people on that plane and maybe 3 others were searched along with me.I am pretty sure that the boarding pass problem is what ran up the red flag on me.   Anyway,NWA really did itself proud in my eyes and as far as I could tell I was not alone in my disgust.It seems that if we,as taxpayers, are going to continue to be forced to bail out this ailing airlines we should at the very least be treated better.

Response:

Question:

Any info about river cruises in holland and details of boats.

Response:

Don’t book on Uniworld. Their Holland-Belgium river cruise sounded wonderful to us. We paid first our deposit and then our final payment, and then they chartered the ship out from under us. Use a legitimate company. (We did a trip to Amsterdam anyway, and had a wonderful time.)

Response:

@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk: Any info about river cruises in holland and details of boats.

We took Viking last year and absolutely loved it. Of course this may have been becasue we wer lucky enough to hit incredible weather, it was snow and rain the week before and after our trip which was largely sunny. The gardens were in full bloom. Viking did an excellent job.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any info about river cruises in holland and details of boats. We took Viking last year and absolutely loved it. Of course this may have been becasue we wer lucky enough to hit incredible weather, it was snow and rain the week before and after our trip which was largely sunny. The gardens were in full bloom. Viking did an excellent job.

Sorry had to walk the dog and hit send without even so much as a cursory edit. Viking has larger staterooms than some but not as glitzy public areas. I have come to appreciate comfort in my quarters over glitz although some of our clients have expressed a liking to the flashier ships, even they push come to shove have rebooked with Viking rather than others. Programs, the good news is that you can usually get off the boat and take a walk in the evening. The programming on most (all?) river boats is that it pretty nearly sucks. Our Cruise Director on Viking Europe did warn us when the entertainment was liely to trun to a salespitch as it did for shoes. "They will try to sell you shoes (a shoe making demo). You can get them cheaper at  . . ." River cruises just can’t afford to book great entertainment so they go with what they can find. Our tours were above average, perhaps because our tour guide (the same one for us every day) was excellent. Those in other groups (three buses total on our cruise) tried to get on our bus when they could. Their guides were good, we hust had one of the great ones. Food quality was good, but we did play what is wrong on the menu every night. It seems that because the menu planning is done in Switzerland and the food is purchased locally that something was always diffferent on the plate usually the vegetable but once something in a sauce. The maitre’d bought us a bottle of wine the last night as gesture for our good natured dialogue (he actually started coming over to see if we could id the missing ingredient so it was a two way thing). We still tell our friends about this cruise and have over 200 pictures on the hard drive.

Response:

We’ve done uniworld a couple of times and totally loved them.   While Jeff had a bad experience with them, not every trip is like that, we have never had a problem with them and would easily book them again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t book on Uniworld. Their Holland-Belgium river cruise sounded wonderful to us. We paid first our deposit and then our final payment, and then they chartered the ship out from under us. Use a legitimate company. (We did a trip to Amsterdam anyway, and had a wonderful time.)

Response:

Cordelliism: "…done uniworld a couple…" Does Goober Mike mean Uniworld?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve done uniworld a couple of times and totally loved them.   While Jeff had a bad experience with them, not every trip is like that, we have never had a problem with them and would easily book them again. Don’t book on Uniworld. Their Holland-Belgium river cruise sounded wonderful to us. We paid first our deposit and then our final payment, and then they chartered the ship out from under us. Use a legitimate company. (We did a trip to Amsterdam anyway, and had a wonderful time.)

Response:

Can’t somebody please help Paul?  He can’t figure it out on his own. Somebody please answer him.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cordelliism: "…done uniworld a couple…" Does Goober Mike mean Uniworld?

Response:

We’ve done uniworld a couple of times and totally loved them.

Question:

Julie, by 2004 Qantas will have the Skybed on it’s 747 services and in terms of comfort and service, you could do far worse than travel Qantas but again, I think you need to travel via London.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the reply Christopher. The service on Singapore is far better but you don’t, as yet. get a Business Class bed on all aircraft. Is this the "Spacebed" and if so, is it the same size (when flat) as the flatbed of BA? There is a note on the SIA www that the retrofit for these will be mid/end 2003. I’m flying spring 2004 and hope they can keep their schedule In terms of ‘miles’, the Singapore miles are Star Alliance so also of use on Europe (Lufthansa, British Midland, etc.). As you are also avoiding a London change, my suggestion would be SIA. It wouldn’t be horrible, but looking at schedules, BA’s are the longest. Can you or anyone else give some insight to SIN-BNE on Qantas? In checking BA’s schedules I can only find economy class on this leg (handled by Qantas) I’ve tried all kinds of dates but they only show economy. Returning from Brisbane to singapore shows business and economy. I would think they were booked if it weren’t for the sheer number of dates I’ve checked, all of them only showing economy. Am I missing something? -julie Hi all, I’m planning a trip from Amsterdam to Brisbane for next year and can’t decide between Singapore Airlines raffles class, or BA’s Club World. The prices (at the moment) aren’t much different from each other. I’m already an established exec. club member with BA, and will likely make more use of the miles I earn with BA..but with Singapore I can have fewer stops which is somewhat important. I’ll be travelling with a lot of equipment (scuba/photo) so if either of them have any better allowance for baggage, that could also be an issue though I’ve never had any trouble on BA world club before. BA used to have the flat-bed seat pitch info on their website but I can’t find it anymore. I’m able to sleep in their flat seat, but my husband (6′1"- 185cm) thought it was too short and wasn’t comfortable. Comfortable sleeping will be pretty important on the return. Can anyone offer any first hand comparisons of the two? I have looked at several web pages which depending on the page puts one  carriers business class just above the other.

Response:

Whilst undoubtedly under the effects of alcohol, "Julie" Can you or anyone else give some insight to SIN-BNE on Qantas? In checking BA’s schedules I can only find economy class on this leg (handled by Qantas) I’ve tried all kinds of dates but they only show economy. Returning from Brisbane to singapore shows business and economy. I would think they were booked if it weren’t for the sheer number of dates I’ve checked, all of them only showing economy. Am I missing something?

The QF and BA standards in J are so radically different that they do not codeshare on each others services – only in First or Steerage. If you check under the QF flight number, there will be J seats available, but not under the BA flight number. Dave Don’t Drink Drive…. It’s A Laundry Detergent

Response:

Thanks for the reply Christopher.

The service on Singapore is far better but you don’t, as yet. get a Business Class bed on all aircraft.

Is this the "Spacebed" and if so, is it the same size (when flat) as the flatbed of BA? There is a note on the SIA www that the retrofit for these will be mid/end 2003. I’m flying spring 2004 and hope they can keep their schedule In terms of ‘miles’, the Singapore miles are Star Alliance so also of use on Europe (Lufthansa, British Midland, etc.). As you are also avoiding a London change, my suggestion would be SIA.

It wouldn’t be horrible, but looking at schedules, BA’s are the longest. Can you or anyone else give some insight to SIN-BNE on Qantas? In checking BA’s schedules I can only find economy class on this leg (handled by Qantas) I’ve tried all kinds of dates but they only show economy. Returning from Brisbane to singapore shows business and economy. I would think they were booked if it weren’t for the sheer number of dates I’ve checked, all of them only showing economy. Am I missing something? -julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m planning a trip from Amsterdam to Brisbane for next year and can’t decide between Singapore Airlines raffles class, or BA’s Club World. The prices (at the moment) aren’t much different from each other. I’m already an established exec. club member with BA, and will likely make more use of the miles I earn with BA..but with Singapore I can have fewer stops which is somewhat important. I’ll be travelling with a lot of equipment (scuba/photo) so if either of them have any better allowance for baggage, that could also be an issue though I’ve never had any trouble on BA world club before. BA used to have the flat-bed seat pitch info on their website but I can’t find it anymore. I’m able to sleep in their flat seat, but my husband (6′1"- 185cm) thought it was too short and wasn’t comfortable. Comfortable sleeping will be pretty important on the return. Can anyone offer any first hand comparisons of the two? I have looked at several web pages which depending on the page puts one  carriers business class just above the other.

Response:

The service on Singapore is far better but you don’t, as yet. get a Business Class bed on all aircraft.  In terms of ‘miles’, the Singapore miles are Star Alliance so also of use on Europe (Lufthansa, British Midland, etc.). As you are also avoiding a London change, my suggestion would be SIA.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m planning a trip from Amsterdam to Brisbane for next year and can’t decide between Singapore Airlines raffles class, or BA’s Club World. The prices (at the moment) aren’t much different from each other. I’m already an established exec. club member with BA, and will likely make more use of the miles I earn with BA..but with Singapore I can have fewer stops which is somewhat important. I’ll be travelling with a lot of equipment (scuba/photo) so if either of them have any better allowance for baggage, that could also be an issue though I’ve never had any trouble on BA world club before. BA used to have the flat-bed seat pitch info on their website but I can’t find it anymore. I’m able to sleep in their flat seat, but my husband (6′1"- 185cm) thought it was too short and wasn’t comfortable. Comfortable sleeping will be pretty important on the return. Can anyone offer any first hand comparisons of the two? I have looked at several web pages which depending on the page puts one  carriers business class just above the other.

Response:

Hi all, I’m planning a trip from Amsterdam to Brisbane for next year and can’t decide between Singapore Airlines raffles class, or BA’s Club World. The prices (at the moment) aren’t much different from each other. I’m already an established exec. club member with BA, and will likely make more use of the miles I earn with BA..but with Singapore I can have fewer stops which is somewhat important. I’ll be travelling with a lot of equipment (scuba/photo) so if either of them have any better allowance for baggage, that could also be an issue though I’ve never had any trouble on BA world club before. BA used to have the flat-bed seat pitch info on their website but I can’t find it anymore. I’m able to sleep in their flat seat, but my husband (6′1"- 185cm) thought it was too short and wasn’t comfortable. Comfortable sleeping will be pretty important on the return. Can anyone offer any first hand comparisons of the two? I have looked at several web pages which depending on the page puts one  carriers business class just above the other.

Response:

Question:

While in Egypt, can I easily visit Jordan for a couple of days (Petra+Dead Sea). Can I obtain Jordanian visa while in Cairo and how long does it take? R, Irek

Response:

While in Egypt, can I easily visit Jordan for a couple of days (Petra+Dead Sea). Can I obtain Jordanian visa while in Cairo and how long does it take? R, Irek

No problem physically. A few years back we based in Eilat, Israel, and freely moved across Egyptian & Jordan borders (into Sinai, up to Cairo, across to Petra, through the Israeli side of the Dead Sea to Jerusalem and – then! – into the Palestine areas). Visas were needed, but these were easily obtained for Egypt (the day before) and for Jordan (when going through the border). There are charges (of course!), but nothing too heavy. Eilat proved to be the ideal centre for visiting all these areas. Surreyman

Response:

One more question: how long does it take to get Syrian visa in Amman? (I believe you can’t get them at the border) Thnx in advance. R, Irek – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While in Egypt, can I easily visit Jordan for a couple of days (Petra+Dead  Sea). Can I obtain Jordanian visa while in Cairo and how long does it take? R, Irek No problem physically. A few years back we based in Eilat, Israel, and freely moved across Egyptian & Jordan borders (into Sinai, up to Cairo, across to Petra, through the Israeli side of the Dead Sea to Jerusalem and – then! – into the Palestine areas). Visas were needed, but these were easily obtained for Egypt (the day before) and for Jordan (when going through the border). There are charges (of course!), but nothing too heavy. Eilat proved to be the ideal centre for visiting all these areas. Surreyman

Response:

Back in 2001 we got our visa on the border! regards, Hans http://home.wanadoo.nl/schoelink (overland trip Capetown – Amsterdam) One more question: how long does it take to get Syrian visa in Amman? (I believe you can’t get them at the border) Thnx in advance. R, Irek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While in Egypt, can I easily visit Jordan for a couple of days (Petra+Dead  Sea). Can I obtain Jordanian visa while in Cairo and how long does it take? R, Irek No problem physically. A few years back we based in Eilat, Israel, and freely moved across Egyptian & Jordan borders (into Sinai, up to Cairo, across to Petra, through the Israeli side of the Dead Sea to Jerusalem and – then! – into the Palestine areas). Visas were needed, but these were easily obtained for Egypt (the day before) and for Jordan (when going through the border). There are charges (of course!), but nothing too heavy. Eilat proved to be the ideal centre for visiting all these areas. Surreyman

Response:

Question:

If only the OP was interested in older conflicts, Romans, Danes, French, Civil War etc etc he could spend years in Britain.

If we could find the battlefields, that is…

Response:

If only the OP was interested in older conflicts, Romans, Danes, French, Civil War etc etc he could spend years in Britain. Actually if there is places in Britain I can visit, in relation to the Civil war, or the ‘Glorious Revolution’, I would very much like to visit them. The Tower of London is on my list.

Well there probably isn’t too much actually still standing (not that I’m an expert on the civil war), but some of the battlefields have markers and plans showing what happened where, I’ve stumbled across a couple but cant remember where they were. And Chester has a certain amount of civil war history, and Roman history, but obviously not as much Roman history as Rome And for a general history buff, a week in London at some point is probably obligitaory. But the question is is it worth your time doing good museums in London, if you are then going to go and see the sites for real. How much time have you got to plan this trip ? It could take years

Response:

How much time have you got to plan this trip ? It could take years

Since I plan to be on the ground in London on the 1st of September, I have from today until whenever I have to have plane fares, visas, train tickets, etc organised. I am a ‘newbie’ at this – never having left the Australian Main Land ever – not even a trip to Tasmania or New Zealand. So this is the reason I am asking so many questions here.  I am trying to get a feel for what I need to organise in the next month. Thanks again jason

Response:

QUESTION: Is Greece and the Delphic Oracle really worth the ‘out-of-the-way’ time to get there?

I think Greece is wonderful, the food, the way of life etc etc. I think seeing Europe without seeing Greece is like watching a beautiful woman without checking out the ‘rear end’ I guess if you find enough early morning flights between these places, or overnight sleeper trains you shouldnt loose too much time in the travel. Is cost an issue, or are you happy to spend a bit to get the most out of the trip ? Its all a bit overwhelming at this point – trying to fit in all the places I have dreamed of seeing for so many years, and not wanting to miss out on anything.

You are allowed back in again, if you behave

Response:

[snip nine-week loop though much of Europe] Being an enthusiastic historian of WWI and WWII history, my preference is for sites related to this period.

That sounds like a memorable trip! I wonder, though, why you would spend a day (more or less) returning to London simply for the purpose of flying home. (You could fly home from Paris.) But since you *are* doing that, and given your interests, I wonder why you don’t spend a day or two on the way back to London at the D-Day sites in Normandy. Including the Peace Museum in Caen. Your route also takes you near an interesting Resistance Museum in the town of Fontaine-de-Vaucluse in Provence. It includes exhibits about the Vichy government and local resistance activities during WW II.

Response:

Your route also takes you near an interesting Resistance Museum in the town of Fontaine-de-Vaucluse in Provence. It includes exhibits about the Vichy government and local resistance activities during WW II.

The town is pretty too.  The Museum is interesting since it shows every day life during the occupation period, it is a modern Museum and will laid out. It has some mock up reconstruction of the period. Vaucluse is generally pretty, the kind of place once can imagine retiring in and becoming "French". Earl

Response:

If only the OP was interested in older conflicts, Romans, Danes, French, Civil War etc etc he could spend years in Britain.

Actually if there is places in Britain I can visit, in relation to the Civil war, or the ‘Glorious Revolution’, I would very much like to visit them. The Tower of London is on my list. Thanks Jason

Response:

I’d skip Denmark and do the Norweigan Fjords instead and/or the Stockholm Archepelico (?sp)

My strongest memory of my visit to Oslo over twenty years ago is the Resistance Museum [WWII] in Akershus Castle. — Dept. of Physics and Computer Science        Clinton, South Carolina USA

Response:

Why is October too late – too cold? I have heard that August is tourist season, and I was hoping to miss at least some of the crush, by starting in september…

In the zone around Cortina, for example, you may climb the mountains that fighters climbed, see their refuges and their trenches. But we are speaking high mountain here, and you need long days and good weather. Early September is good, but in late October it may be already snowing. —

Response:

QUESTION: Is Greece and the Delphic Oracle really worth the ‘out-of-the-way’ time to get there?  A loaded question I realise, and subjective, but it would probably give me more time in Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Poland, France, Italy.

Ignore question about GREECE.  Since I am planning to go to Turkey anyway, its not as out of the way, as I first thought.  You could almost say thats its on the way to Italy, as long as you were visiting the very south of Italy Thanks for all the responses so far, they have been really helpful. Cheers Jason

Response:

[snip nine-week loop though much of Europe] That sounds like a memorable trip! I wonder, though, why you would spend a day (more or less) returning to London simply for the purpose of flying home. (You could fly home from Paris.) But since you *are* doing that, and given your interests, I wonder why you don’t spend a day or two on the way back to London at the D-Day sites in Normandy. Including the Peace Museum in Caen.

I guess you are right, it is a bit of waste.  And the Normandy site would be a memorable addition. Your route also takes you near an interesting Resistance Museum in the town of Fontaine-de-Vaucluse in Provence. It includes exhibits about the Vichy government and local resistance activities during WW II.

The Vichy governments cooperation with the Germans has always fascinated (and disturbed) me, and a visit to the museum you mention would be a nice addition. QUESTION: Is Greece and the Delphic Oracle really worth the ‘out-of-the-way’ time to get there?  A loaded question I realise, and subjective, but it would probably give me more time in Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Poland, France, Italy. Its all a bit overwhelming at this point – trying to fit in all the places I have dreamed of seeing for so many years, and not wanting to miss out on anything. Thanks Jason

Response:

nine countries in 8 weeks! For me, it is too much!

well don’t go then !! For a young fit Ozzy it should be no problem. I’m surprsied that a trip to Amsterdam wasn’t on the list – especially the Anne Frank house with the WWII interest. I’d skip Denmark and do the Norweigan Fjords instead and/or the Stockholm Archepelico (?sp) Don’t plan too long in Athens, maybe a few days around the Greek Islands instead. Dover Castle while in England

Response:

I’m surprsied that a trip to Amsterdam wasn’t on the list – especially the Anne Frank house with the WWII interest.

Hi, These are the sorts of suggestions I was looking for.  The house of Anne Frank would definately be something I would like to visit. The Netherlands it is Thanks Jason

Response:

I’m surprsied that a trip to Amsterdam wasn’t on the list – especially the Anne Frank house with the WWII interest. Hi, These are the sorts of suggestions I was looking for.  The house of Anne Frank would definately be something I would like to visit. The Netherlands it is

There’s also the museum at Mauthausen, near Linz on the Danube in Austria. Tim.

Response:

nine countries in 8 weeks! For me, it is too much!

Check the following website:     http://www.eurohistour.com/ If they can do all that in 15 days, surely I can do that and more in 56! Cheers Jason

Response:

Sites related to WWI and WWII or earlier conflicts from the 18th and 19th centuries would also be interesting.

Western Belgium / Northern France would have to be on you list too… Lots of WWI battelfields, and a great museum at Ieper (Ypres). Krist — Krist                                                  Bern, Switzerland mailme<atkri<dotst

Response:

   Ferry to Denmark

Why sail? It takes 18 hours and costs more than an one-way ticket on Ryanair.            * Not sure what to do here

Take a look the German bunkers on the west coast. You can find stuff like this: http://w1.1974.telia.com/~u198900940/page3.html Sites related to WWI and WWII or earlier conflicts from the 18th and 19th centuries would also be interesting.

There’s a museum around Dybb

Question:

In rec.travel.cruises  I read this message from "Tom Gauldin" The most common symptom is extreme diarrhea.  At the risk of sounding crude, the expression commonly used in MO is: "I could have sh*t through a screen door 20′ away." <grin

I’ve packed Imodium for our Tahitian Princess cruise; we leave tomorrow. I do wonder, however, if the diarrhea and vomiting are necessary for a quicker recovery. That is, are those symptoms the body’s way of getting rid of the nasty little buggers, so that treating them means one is sick longer? Susan Silberstein Member, University of Ediacara Howler Monkeys SETI Team http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_60063.html

Response:

The most common symptom is extreme diarrhea.  At the risk of sounding crude, the expression commonly used in MO is: "I could have sh*t through a screen door 20′ away." <grin — Tom Gauldin, Las Vegas NV NEW PHONE (702) 263-8804 voice/fax

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – She also has a bit of a fever… I guess I should start praying now that the other 2 kids, myself, my mom, and Chuck all don’t get it!!! Pam, chances are others in your family will catch it.  Usually these things spread rather quickly, and I’m sure your daughter caught it from your son. My kids have been away the past few days snowboarding up in Vermont, so hopefully they will miss it.  And Bob moved out of "our" bathroom, toothbrush and all, but I still think he doesn’t stand a chance!!! In addition the the usual stomach virus symptoms, I had a fever, body aches and headache.  Still have the body aches and headache, but thankfully the rest of the symptoms have subsided. Jo-Ann

Response:

The virus is not fun.  It came on quick during the night with absolutely no warning, then left just as quick about 48 hours later.  As someone else stated, basically a very bad stomach flu. Anyway, the point is that you can contract this everyday virus just about anywhere…. not just on a cruise ship.  Not taking a cruise due to fear of this virus is just plain insane.  You probably have a better chance of getting it at your local mall.

Ernest, that is so true.  When it hit me New Year’s Eve around  8 p.m. (we wound up cancelling our party plans), my husband asked me if anybody at work had it that I might have caught it from.  I said no.  However, when I called work the next day, I was informed that half the employees had it.  And I am a nurse in a nursing home…I shudder to think of the elderly patients getting it.

Response:

Jo-Ann Glad to hear you are feeling better. beer on:-) S’nd I

Response:

Jo-Ann, I know what you mean.  I got Norwalk two days after Christmas (as diagnosed by my doctor).  Although I just disembarked from the QE2 a week earlier, it was NOT from the ship.  I did work a trip to Amsterdam the day before Christmas, returning the day after Christmas, and the doctor felt I most likely contracted the virus from a passenger on the return flight. The virus is not fun.  It came on quick during the night with absolutely no warning, then left just as quick about 48 hours later.  As someone else stated, basically a very bad stomach flu. Anyway, the point is that you can contract this everyday virus just about anywhere…. not just on a cruise ship.  Not taking a cruise due to fear of this virus is just plain insane.  You probably have a better chance of getting it at your local mall. Ernie, Atlanta

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any more recent occurences? Yeah, in my house.  And we aren’t even scheduled to step foot on a ship until Jan. 25.  Just goes to show this stomach bug isn’t exclusive to cruise ships. Jo-Annon the mend after battling this nasty virus for the past two days

Response:

What airline, Ernie??? On another note… Guess what… daughter got it today… I wasn’t sure, because it WAS sudden, and I never know WHAT to believe with her, but she has spent more time in the bathroom today  than anywhere else.  She also has a bit of a fever… I guess I should start praying now that the other 2 kids, myself, my mom, and Chuck all don’t get it!!! I DID read that you are still contagious, even after you feel better.  Do ya think I can blame my son for my daughter getting sick??? Pam <—— thinks I’ll put the blame on AJs employer instead… Pam <——- can NOT get sick now!

Response:

She also has a bit of a fever… I guess I should start praying now that the other 2 kids, myself, my mom, and Chuck all don’t get it!!!

Pam, chances are others in your family will catch it.  Usually these things spread rather quickly, and I’m sure your daughter caught it from your son. My kids have been away the past few days snowboarding up in Vermont, so hopefully they will miss it.  And Bob moved out of "our" bathroom, toothbrush and all, but I still think he doesn’t stand a chance!!! In addition the the usual stomach virus symptoms, I had a fever, body aches and headache.  Still have the body aches and headache, but thankfully the rest of the symptoms have subsided. Jo-Ann

Response:

The virus is not fun.  It came on quick during the night with absolutely no warning, then left just as quick about 48 hours later.  As someone else stated, basically a very bad stomach flu.

Having witnessed it secondhand (my son had it), I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.   Glad you’re feeling better Jo-Ann… Ernie…  Are you a flight attendant??? Pam <——- didn’t know

Response:

The virus is not fun.  It came on quick during the night with absolutely no warning, then left just as quick about 48 hours later.  As someone else stated, basically a very bad stomach flu. Having witnessed it secondhand (my son had it), I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Glad you’re feeling better Jo-Ann… Ernie…  Are you a flight attendant??? Pam <——- didn’t know

Sure am! Ernie

Response:

Any more recent occurences?

Yeah, in my house.  And we aren’t even scheduled to step foot on a ship until Jan. 25.  Just goes to show this stomach bug isn’t exclusive to cruise ships. Jo-Annon the mend after battling this nasty virus for the past two days

Response:

Overblown media hype… if you don’t hear about any new cases, it just means other happenings captured their attention. NLV="stomach flu" (second in prevalence to the common cold!) Enough already. Linda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any more recent occurences?

Response:

Any more recent occurences?

Response:

Any more recent occurences?

Response:

Overblown media hype… if you don’t hear about any new cases, it just means other happenings captured their attention. NLV="stomach flu" (second in prevalence to the common cold!) Enough already. Linda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any more recent occurences?

Response:

Any more recent occurences?

Yeah, in my house.  And we aren’t even scheduled to step foot on a ship until Jan. 25.  Just goes to show this stomach bug isn’t exclusive to cruise ships. Jo-Annon the mend after battling this nasty virus for the past two days

Response:

Jo-Ann Glad to hear you are feeling better. beer on:-) S’nd I

Response:

Jo-Ann, I know what you mean.  I got Norwalk two days after Christmas (as diagnosed by my doctor).  Although I just disembarked from the QE2 a week earlier, it was NOT from the ship.  I did work a trip to Amsterdam the day before Christmas, returning the day after Christmas, and the doctor felt I most likely contracted the virus from a passenger on the return flight. The virus is not fun.  It came on quick during the night with absolutely no warning, then left just as quick about 48 hours later.  As someone else stated, basically a very bad stomach flu. Anyway, the point is that you can contract this everyday virus just about anywhere…. not just on a cruise ship.  Not taking a cruise due to fear of this virus is just plain insane.  You probably have a better chance of getting it at your local mall. Ernie, Atlanta

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any more recent occurences? Yeah, in my house.  And we aren’t even scheduled to step foot on a ship until Jan. 25.  Just goes to show this stomach bug isn’t exclusive to cruise ships. Jo-Annon the mend after battling this nasty virus for the past two days

Response:

The virus is not fun.  It came on quick during the night with absolutely no warning, then left just as quick about 48 hours later.  As someone else stated, basically a very bad stomach flu. Anyway, the point is that you can contract this everyday virus just about anywhere…. not just on a cruise ship.  Not taking a cruise due to fear of this virus is just plain insane.  You probably have a better chance of getting it at your local mall.

Ernest, that is so true.  When it hit me New Year’s Eve around  8 p.m. (we wound up cancelling our party plans), my husband asked me if anybody at work had it that I might have caught it from.  I said no.  However, when I called work the next day, I was informed that half the employees had it.  And I am a nurse in a nursing home…I shudder to think of the elderly patients getting it.

Response:

The virus is not fun.  It came on quick during the night with absolutely no warning, then left just as quick about 48 hours later.  As someone else stated, basically a very bad stomach flu.

Having witnessed it secondhand (my son had it), I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.   Glad you’re feeling better Jo-Ann… Ernie…  Are you a flight attendant??? Pam <——- didn’t know

Response:

The virus is not fun.  It came on quick during the night with absolutely no warning, then left just as quick about 48 hours later.  As someone else stated, basically a very bad stomach flu. Having witnessed it secondhand (my son had it), I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Glad you’re feeling better Jo-Ann… Ernie…  Are you a flight attendant??? Pam <——- didn’t know

Sure am! Ernie

Response:

What airline, Ernie??? On another note… Guess what… daughter got it today… I wasn’t sure, because it WAS sudden, and I never know WHAT to believe with her, but she has spent more time in the bathroom today  than anywhere else.  She also has a bit of a fever… I guess I should start praying now that the other 2 kids, myself, my mom, and Chuck all don’t get it!!! I DID read that you are still contagious, even after you feel better.  Do ya think I can blame my son for my daughter getting sick??? Pam <—— thinks I’ll put the blame on AJs employer instead… Pam <——- can NOT get sick now!

Response:

She also has a bit of a fever… I guess I should start praying now that the other 2 kids, myself, my mom, and Chuck all don’t get it!!!

Pam, chances are others in your family will catch it.  Usually these things spread rather quickly, and I’m sure your daughter caught it from your son. My kids have been away the past few days snowboarding up in Vermont, so hopefully they will miss it.  And Bob moved out of "our" bathroom, toothbrush and all, but I still think he doesn’t stand a chance!!! In addition the the usual stomach virus symptoms, I had a fever, body aches and headache.  Still have the body aches and headache, but thankfully the rest of the symptoms have subsided. Jo-Ann

Response:

The most common symptom is extreme diarrhea.  At the risk of sounding crude, the expression commonly used in MO is: "I could have sh*t through a screen door 20′ away." <grin — Tom Gauldin, Las Vegas NV NEW PHONE (702) 263-8804 voice/fax

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – She also has a bit of a fever… I guess I should start praying now that the other 2 kids, myself, my mom, and Chuck all don’t get it!!! Pam, chances are others in your family will catch it.  Usually these things spread rather quickly, and I’m sure your daughter caught it from your son. My kids have been away the past few days snowboarding up in Vermont, so hopefully they will miss it.  And Bob moved out of "our" bathroom, toothbrush and all, but I still think he doesn’t stand a chance!!! In addition the the usual stomach virus symptoms, I had a fever, body aches and headache.  Still have the body aches and headache, but thankfully the rest of the symptoms have subsided. Jo-Ann

Response:

In rec.travel.cruises  I read this message from "Tom Gauldin" The most common symptom is extreme diarrhea.  At the risk of sounding crude, the expression commonly used in MO is: "I could have sh*t through a screen door 20′ away." <grin

I’ve packed Imodium for our Tahitian Princess cruise; we leave tomorrow. I do wonder, however, if the diarrhea and vomiting are necessary for a quicker recovery. That is, are those symptoms the body’s way of getting rid of the nasty little buggers, so that treating them means one is sick longer? Susan Silberstein Member, University of Ediacara Howler Monkeys SETI Team http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/stats/team/team_60063.html

Response:

Question:

We seek reasonably priced places with local specialties as well as Indonesian/Turkish cuisine

If you’re in Amsterdam on a Saturday or Sunday, the most fun way to have Turkish food is to take the train to Beverwijk (20 minutes from Amsterdam) and walk about 15 minutes to the Zwarte Markt. The middle eastern hall, way in the back, has row after row of Turkish restaurants, confectioners, bakers, vegetable stands, etc., properly lent atmosphere by the music sellers, periodic call to prayer, and the overwhelmingly middle eastern clientele. Heading there this weekend myself. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

Response:

Ibn Amsterdam visit Restaurant De Roode Leeuw at Damrak 93-94. It is member of Neerlands Dis, an association of restaurants promoting Dutch Regional Specialities. Look at www.restaurantderoodeleeuw.com and / or www.neerlandsdis.nl The fact that I am the manager is not the reason that it is very known and sucessful. Not satisfied= money back Enjoy your trip to Amsterdam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We seek reasonably priced places with local specialties as well as Indonesian/Turkish cuisine Thanks Hank

Response:

We seek reasonably priced places with local specialties as well as Indonesian/Turkish cuisine Thanks Hank

Turkish restaurants in Brussels: http://www.brusselstourism.com/ListeSoc.cfm?cat=318&Langue=ang mor restaurants in Brussels http://www.restaurants.com/World/WAlphabetResult.asp?Country=BE&City=… s — T

Question:

Hi, My wife and i are about to purchase tickets for amsterdam leaving in december.  We both have passports and are wondering if this is all we’ll need to get into the country. How long can we stay? Any recommendations for finding our flight for cheaper?  Im at $515 after taxes. we’ll be flying from Houston , Tx to Amsterdam , and hope to stay around a month. thank you for any info

Response:

Hi, My wife and i are about to purchase tickets for amsterdam leaving in december.  We both have passports and are wondering if this is all we’ll need to get into the country.

 yes How long can we stay?

 3 months. Any recommendations for finding our flight for cheaper?  Im at $515 after taxes.

 www.klm.com should have the best deals -Patanegra

Response:

My wife and i are about to purchase tickets for amsterdam leaving in december.  We both have passports and are wondering if this is all we’ll need to get into the country. How long can we stay?

It’s a very casual entry. You groggily lay your passport on the table and say "good morning", they flip through it for half a second, stamp it, and say welcome, and you move on. You can stay for up to 3 months without doing any additional paperwork. Any recommendations for finding our flight for cheaper?  Im at $515 after taxes.

$515 from Texas isn’t that bad. You might want to wait for the sales next month though. Follow the airfare deals page on the www.smarterliving.com site. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Response:

Any recommendations for finding our flight for cheaper?  Im at $515 after taxes.

That’s a good fare.  The general rules of thumb are: * Weekends can cost more; *  Many sale fares have a 30 day maximum; *  If you want to leave within a week before Christmas you usually  pay more. $515 is pretty good!!!

Response:

Hi, My wife and i are about to purchase tickets for amsterdam leaving in december.  We both have passports and are wondering if this is all we’ll need to get into the country. How long can we stay? Any recommendations for finding our flight for cheaper?  Im at $515 after taxes. we’ll be flying from Houston , Tx to Amsterdam , and hope to stay around a month. thank you for any info

Response:

Hi, My wife and i are about to purchase tickets for amsterdam leaving in december.  We both have passports and are wondering if this is all we’ll need to get into the country.

 yes How long can we stay?

 3 months. Any recommendations for finding our flight for cheaper?  Im at $515 after taxes.

 www.klm.com should have the best deals -Patanegra

Response:

My wife and i are about to purchase tickets for amsterdam leaving in december.  We both have passports and are wondering if this is all we’ll need to get into the country. How long can we stay?

It’s a very casual entry. You groggily lay your passport on the table and say "good morning", they flip through it for half a second, stamp it, and say welcome, and you move on. You can stay for up to 3 months without doing any additional paperwork. Any recommendations for finding our flight for cheaper?  Im at $515 after taxes.

$515 from Texas isn’t that bad. You might want to wait for the sales next month though. Follow the airfare deals page on the www.smarterliving.com site. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Response:

Any recommendations for finding our flight for cheaper?  Im at $515 after taxes.

That’s a good fare.  The general rules of thumb are: * Weekends can cost more; *  Many sale fares have a 30 day maximum; *  If you want to leave within a week before Christmas you usually  pay more. $515 is pretty good!!!

Response:

Question:

Hi,     Thanks for your reply. But can you raise some example for the range of price would be ?     In france, I am travelling using Paris as the center to Strasbourg, Mont Michel and Loire Valley.     In Italy, some major spots with traditional route, Venice, Florence and Rome.     So do you know what the price would be ? Such that I may have a better plan.     THanks. Persesu

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days Rail prices are high in Germany,France,Switzerland,Austria while they are low in Greek and Italy. Suggest you to save the remaining 14 days for Italy and Greek. A suggestion for Greek is the very good local rocer-card Hellenic Tourpass. Euro 43:13 ,10days one person. Available at OSE head office Athen or the international ticket window Thessaloniki.        L.P

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all ,     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days     However, i’ve bought a eurail pass for 1 month. But if I open the eurail ticket in 1) France-Spain train, then I either have to spend more days in greece in order use eurail in Italy-Greece.

You might keep in mind the use of night trains in determining your itinery, so you can sleep while you’re traveling (also, it’s free if you sleep in your seat, some trains have the pull down kind where they you can lie down completely).  I think I went from Paris to Nice, spent the afternoon on the beach and prowling the area, and then took a night train to Venice. I would ditch Greece because you kill too much time traveling.  What’s more, the actual traveling between Greece and Italy is commonly a miserable experience.  Save that for another trip (future honeymoon), or else plan on spending more time.  The idea in Greece by the way is to go to Athens, see the Acropolis, and get the hell out of dodge.  If you’re young and looking for fun, beaches are the place to go there, and to take it in, you really want a more time than you’ve given.     But I don’t want to spend that many days in greece.

I would suggest skipping it then, and saving it for a future trip to Greece, Turkey.  Here’s a nice Eurail diversion I took, if you don’t mind whirlwind travel:  Night train from Berlin to Copenhagen .  Spend day seeing Copenhagen (after putting backpack in train station locker).  Night train to Oslo, Norway.  Spend day seeing that (viking ships, etc).  Night train to Stockholm.  Spend day seeing that. Night train to Hamburg.  (Instead of Hamburg, you might be able to get a night train to Amsterdam, I can’t remember the distances.)  This wouldn’t be a good diversion for the colder months though, and none of those cities would be that fun to see if the weather was bad all day.  So it’s a gamble.  But I got lucky and had great weather there in early June.  If I had had more time, I would have gone from Oslo to Helsinki, Finland, but that would have added a second day in Oslo on the way back from Finland as well. 2) Spain. But I don’t know if it’s very expensive to go from

France-Spain. Depends on what time of year your going, as I could understand wanting to head south later in the trip if you are going in the Fall.  In May-June, however, you might want to see the south first (after a nice Spring week in Paris), and then head north.  I spent 5 days in Paris and then headed for Venice as mentioned.  From there, Florence, then Rome.  You could spend as much time in Rome as Paris.  Trip from Rome to Barcelona can be done with a quick side trip to Pisa to take a snapshot, or a stop on those west coastal hilly towns that have the hiking trails between them (can’t remember the names)– I managed to squeeze in both in fact.)  I went from Barcelona to Madrid, with day side trip to Toledo.  From Madrid to Seville.  Seville to Berne, Switzerland.  Next day I went to that Interlaken (should have just gone straight there).  Nice cross roads and good hostile (you can show up any time of day).  Then to Saltzburg.  From there was some combination of Budapest, Vienna, and Prague (not included in Eurail) before going to Germany.  I just offer these travel combinations because maybe certain parts will fit your bill.  I finished my trip in Amsterdam before heading back to Paris for one last day. I was there for two 1/2 months, with a general idea of how I wanted to proceed, but not knowing exactly how long I would stay in each place or when until it all unfolded.  The best part about the eurail pass is you don’t have to be exact.  Allows you to make last minute decisions, plus you know its not the end of the world if you miss a train (I came close a couple of times)– you won’t be eating a ticket.  There were times when I literally didn’t make up my mind which city I was going to next until 10 or 15 minutes before the train was to leave.   What a cool feeling.  I loved it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     So, anyone can give some advice or other recommendations ?     Thanks. Perseus

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,     Thanks for your reply. But can you raise some example for the range of price would be ?     In france, I am travelling using Paris as the center to Strasbourg, Mont Michel and Loire Valley.     In Italy, some major spots with traditional route, Venice, Florence and Rome.     So do you know what the price would be ? Such that I may have a better plan.     THanks. Persesu

It’s some work to find out the local rail-prices but you can calculate them from the websites of the respectively national railways. And reach their adresses from http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/misc/timetabl.html    best regards and happy trip Lennart Petersen

Response:

    I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days

Rail prices are high in Germany,France,Switzerland,Austria while they are low in Greek and Italy. Suggest you to save the remaining 14 days for Italy and Greek. A suggestion for Greek is the very good local rocer-card Hellenic Tourpass. Euro 43:13 ,10days one person. Available at OSE head office Athen or the international ticket window Thessaloniki.        L.P

Response:

Hi all ,     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days     However, i’ve bought a eurail pass for 1 month. But if I open the eurail ticket in 1) France-Spain train, then I either have to spend more days in greece in order use eurail in Italy-Greece.     But I don’t want to spend that many days in greece. 2) Spain. But I don’t know if it’s very expensive to go from France-Spain.     So, anyone can give some advice or other recommendations ?     Thanks. Perseus

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all ,     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days     However, i’ve bought a eurail pass for 1 month. But if I open the eurail ticket in 1) France-Spain train, then I either have to spend more days in greece in order use eurail in Italy-Greece.     But I don’t want to spend that many days in greece. 2) Spain. But I don’t know if it’s very expensive to go from France-Spain.     So, anyone can give some advice or other recommendations ?     Thanks. Perseus

Perseus, What is your European gateway city? In order to maximize a 30 day pass you must maximize your time in the gateway city (cities). Greece is a reach, even with your long journey. I guess you’ve already been to Holland or that would surely have been on your list. You might consider Hungary in addition to your "rest of the 44 days." If this is your first expedition with a Eurailpass have a look at my page http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm for plenty of helpful info and photos. John —    * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *              http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all ,     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days     However, i’ve bought a eurail pass for 1 month. But if I open the eurail ticket in 1) France-Spain train, then I either have to spend more days in greece in order use eurail in Italy-Greece.     But I don’t want to spend that many days in greece. 2) Spain. But I don’t know if it’s very expensive to go from France-Spain.     So, anyone can give some advice or other recommendations ?     Thanks.

44 days isn’t much time to split between so many locations.  Travelling to a different location every day or so is a race, not a vacation. See more.  Travel less.  Fewer locations.  More time per location.  Do many daytrips to save the hassle and time of changing hotels. For a trip of this length, I’d recommend no less than a week in the major cities, Paris, Berlin, Munich, etc, and usually much more. The fixed period Eurail pass is usually a good value only if you travel almost every day/night or so, such as when you would only want to hop on/off between smaller cities and use night trains for long travel segments. It’s not so good if you’re visiting many of the major European cities for the first time.  For a first trip, the Eurail flexi-passes and Europasses are usually cheaper, particularly when selectively combined with point-to-point and special fares.  Germany has many discount tickets that are much cheaper than using a day on a pass, particularly for short daytrips.  You should have no problem exchanging your unused fixed day pass for a flexipass if you choose to do so. It would be a shame not to include London in your itinerary, if you’ve not visited there before.  Brugge and Brussels in Belgium are convenient to see for a couple days (each) when travelling between London and Paris, but both cities would be worth a special sidetrip in any case.

Response:

Hi all ,     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days     However, i’ve bought a eurail pass for 1 month. But if I open the eurail ticket in 1) France-Spain train, then I either have to spend more days in greece in order use eurail in Italy-Greece.     But I don’t want to spend that many days in greece. 2) Spain. But I don’t know if it’s very expensive to go from France-Spain.     So, anyone can give some advice or other recommendations ?     Thanks. Perseus

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all ,     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days     However, i’ve bought a eurail pass for 1 month. But if I open the eurail ticket in 1) France-Spain train, then I either have to spend more days in greece in order use eurail in Italy-Greece.     But I don’t want to spend that many days in greece. 2) Spain. But I don’t know if it’s very expensive to go from France-Spain.     So, anyone can give some advice or other recommendations ?     Thanks. Perseus

Perseus, What is your European gateway city? In order to maximize a 30 day pass you must maximize your time in the gateway city (cities). Greece is a reach, even with your long journey. I guess you’ve already been to Holland or that would surely have been on your list. You might consider Hungary in addition to your "rest of the 44 days." If this is your first expedition with a Eurailpass have a look at my page http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm for plenty of helpful info and photos. John —    * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *              http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all ,     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days     However, i’ve bought a eurail pass for 1 month. But if I open the eurail ticket in 1) France-Spain train, then I either have to spend more days in greece in order use eurail in Italy-Greece.     But I don’t want to spend that many days in greece. 2) Spain. But I don’t know if it’s very expensive to go from France-Spain.     So, anyone can give some advice or other recommendations ?     Thanks.

44 days isn’t much time to split between so many locations.  Travelling to a different location every day or so is a race, not a vacation. See more.  Travel less.  Fewer locations.  More time per location.  Do many daytrips to save the hassle and time of changing hotels. For a trip of this length, I’d recommend no less than a week in the major cities, Paris, Berlin, Munich, etc, and usually much more. The fixed period Eurail pass is usually a good value only if you travel almost every day/night or so, such as when you would only want to hop on/off between smaller cities and use night trains for long travel segments. It’s not so good if you’re visiting many of the major European cities for the first time.  For a first trip, the Eurail flexi-passes and Europasses are usually cheaper, particularly when selectively combined with point-to-point and special fares.  Germany has many discount tickets that are much cheaper than using a day on a pass, particularly for short daytrips.  You should have no problem exchanging your unused fixed day pass for a flexipass if you choose to do so. It would be a shame not to include London in your itinerary, if you’ve not visited there before.  Brugge and Brussels in Belgium are convenient to see for a couple days (each) when travelling between London and Paris, but both cities would be worth a special sidetrip in any case.

Response:

    I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days

Rail prices are high in Germany,France,Switzerland,Austria while they are low in Greek and Italy. Suggest you to save the remaining 14 days for Italy and Greek. A suggestion for Greek is the very good local rocer-card Hellenic Tourpass. Euro 43:13 ,10days one person. Available at OSE head office Athen or the international ticket window Thessaloniki.        L.P

Response:

Hi,     Thanks for your reply. But can you raise some example for the range of price would be ?     In france, I am travelling using Paris as the center to Strasbourg, Mont Michel and Loire Valley.     In Italy, some major spots with traditional route, Venice, Florence and Rome.     So do you know what the price would be ? Such that I may have a better plan.     THanks. Persesu

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days Rail prices are high in Germany,France,Switzerland,Austria while they are low in Greek and Italy. Suggest you to save the remaining 14 days for Italy and Greek. A suggestion for Greek is the very good local rocer-card Hellenic Tourpass. Euro 43:13 ,10days one person. Available at OSE head office Athen or the international ticket window Thessaloniki.        L.P

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all ,     I am now planning a 44 days trip to europe with the following schedule:     France: 7 days     Spain  : 7 days     Switzerland, Germany, Austria: rest of the 44 days.     Italy : 8 days     Greece: 5 days     However, i’ve bought a eurail pass for 1 month. But if I open the eurail ticket in 1) France-Spain train, then I either have to spend more days in greece in order use eurail in Italy-Greece.

You might keep in mind the use of night trains in determining your itinery, so you can sleep while you’re traveling (also, it’s free if you sleep in your seat, some trains have the pull down kind where they you can lie down completely).  I think I went from Paris to Nice, spent the afternoon on the beach and prowling the area, and then took a night train to Venice. I would ditch Greece because you kill too much time traveling.  What’s more, the actual traveling between Greece and Italy is commonly a miserable experience.  Save that for another trip (future honeymoon), or else plan on spending more time.  The idea in Greece by the way is to go to Athens, see the Acropolis, and get the hell out of dodge.  If you’re young and looking for fun, beaches are the place to go there, and to take it in, you really want a more time than you’ve given.     But I don’t want to spend that many days in greece.

I would suggest skipping it then, and saving it for a future trip to Greece, Turkey.  Here’s a nice Eurail diversion I took, if you don’t mind whirlwind travel:  Night train from Berlin to Copenhagen .  Spend day seeing Copenhagen (after putting backpack in train station locker).  Night train to Oslo, Norway.  Spend day seeing that (viking ships, etc).  Night train to Stockholm.  Spend day seeing that. Night train to Hamburg.  (Instead of Hamburg, you might be able to get a night train to Amsterdam, I can’t remember the distances.)  This wouldn’t be a good diversion for the colder months though, and none of those cities would be that fun to see if the weather was bad all day.  So it’s a gamble.  But I got lucky and had great weather there in early June.  If I had had more time, I would have gone from Oslo to Helsinki, Finland, but that would have added a second day in Oslo on the way back from Finland as well. 2) Spain. But I don’t know if it’s very expensive to go from

France-Spain. Depends on what time of year your going, as I could understand wanting to head south later in the trip if you are going in the Fall.  In May-June, however, you might want to see the south first (after a nice Spring week in Paris), and then head north.  I spent 5 days in Paris and then headed for Venice as mentioned.  From there, Florence, then Rome.  You could spend as much time in Rome as Paris.  Trip from Rome to Barcelona can be done with a quick side trip to Pisa to take a snapshot, or a stop on those west coastal hilly towns that have the hiking trails between them (can’t remember the names)– I managed to squeeze in both in fact.)  I went from Barcelona to Madrid, with day side trip to Toledo.  From Madrid to Seville.  Seville to Berne, Switzerland.  Next day I went to that Interlaken (should have just gone straight there).  Nice cross roads and good hostile (you can show up any time of day).  Then to Saltzburg.  From there was some combination of Budapest, Vienna, and Prague (not included in Eurail) before going to Germany.  I just offer these travel combinations because maybe certain parts will fit your bill.  I finished my trip in Amsterdam before heading back to Paris for one last day. I was there for two 1/2 months, with a general idea of how I wanted to proceed, but not knowing exactly how long I would stay in each place or when until it all unfolded.  The best part about the eurail pass is you don’t have to be exact.  Allows you to make last minute decisions, plus you know its not the end of the world if you miss a train (I came close a couple of times)– you won’t be eating a ticket.  There were times when I literally didn’t make up my mind which city I was going to next until 10 or 15 minutes before the train was to leave.   What a cool feeling.  I loved it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     So, anyone can give some advice or other recommendations ?     Thanks. Perseus

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,     Thanks for your reply. But can you raise some example for the range of price would be ?     In france, I am travelling using Paris as the center to Strasbourg, Mont Michel and Loire Valley.     In Italy, some major spots with traditional route, Venice, Florence and Rome.     So do you know what the price would be ? Such that I may have a better plan.     THanks. Persesu

It’s some work to find out the local rail-prices but you can calculate them from the websites of the respectively national railways. And reach their adresses from http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/misc/timetabl.html    best regards and happy trip Lennart Petersen

Response:

Question:

Surely in international J/C class, seat pitch should be pretty much OK?  Worse that I have seen (UA/LH) at around 44 in.  Better one (AC) around 54. It hink UA is more than 44" though LH is pretty miserable

Actually you seem right on UA.  They must have increased it in the last two years or so? Nowhere near that in exit rows in coach I would think?  In any event, what are the odds to get an exit row in coach for an occasional flyer? On 747s, emergency exit seats by the door have the whole doorway clear.   There’s lots of room.  You’re likely to get econoym seats with emergency exits in door 3 (overwing) and 4.  I hear that KL is removing BC seats so seats by door 2 (2l only, no 2R seats) is a possibility.

I guess you guys are right on that.  Still what are the odds to get one of these?

Response:

Check out this site on seat pitch. http://www.airlinequality.com/Product/seat_intro.htm We’re planning a trip to Amsterdam next month (coming from Toronto) and I was wondering if anybody could help us in finding out what the leg room is like in a typical KLM 747 coach seat. I’m 6′3", and last year we made the mistake of taking an Air Transat flight to Europe.. needless to say, my knees paid dearly. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Rick Garner To email replace the nospam with isomedia

Response:

We’re planning a trip to Amsterdam next month (coming from Toronto) and I was wondering if anybody could help us in finding out what the leg room is like in a typical KLM 747 coach seat. Call KLM now and request Emergency Exit seats…they may tell you it’s a first come, first served basis at the ticket counter at the day of departure, but ignore it and politely demand these seats…at 6ft5inch I feel for you…I swear those f**king engineers who designed these planes are all 5ft5!  Also, they didn’t charge me for this special arrangement – Air Transit does! –NB

I am just under 5′ 2" and I can’t bear the cramping in coach.  I think the planes have been designed by elves.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’re planning a trip to Amsterdam next month (coming from Toronto) and I was wondering if anybody could help us in finding out what the leg room is like in a typical KLM 747 coach seat. Call KLM now and request Emergency Exit seats…they may tell you it’s a first come, first served basis at the ticket counter at the day of departure, but ignore it and politely demand these seats…at 6ft5inch I feel for you…I swear those f**king engineers who designed these planes are all 5ft5!  Also, they didn’t charge me for this special arrangement – Air Transit does! –NB I am just under 5′ 2" and I can’t bear the cramping in coach.  I think the planes have been designed by elves.

LOL!  I agree – although it’s the lack of "shoulder room" that really gets to me! (I always request an aisle seat, and store my single carry-on in the overhead bins, so I have reasonable space for one leg, and can stretch the other into the aisle – haven’t tripped a flight attendant, yet, although there’s always a first time <grin.)

Response:

We’re planning a trip to Amsterdam next month (coming from Toronto) and I was wondering if anybody could help us in finding out what the leg room is like in a typical KLM 747 coach seat.

Abysmal if you’re over 1.7m tall. Call KLM now and request Emergency Exit seats…they may tell you it’s a first come, first served basis at the ticket counter at the day of departure, but ignore it and politely demand these seats…at 6ft5inch I feel for you…I swear those f**king engineers who designed these planes are all 5ft5! Also, they didn’t charge me for this special

No… it’s the accountants with Napoleon complex. Seats can be spaced much wider. But you’re not allowed to bring your own tools to adjust yours for comfort. arrangement – Air Transit does! I am just under 5′ 2" and I can’t bear the cramping in coach.  I think the planes have been designed by elves. LOL!  I agree – although it’s the lack of "shoulder room" that really gets to me! (I always request an aisle seat, and store my single carry-on in the overhead bins, so I have reasonable space for one leg, and can stretch the other into the aisle – haven’t tripped a flight attendant, yet, although there’s always a first time <grin.)

You terrorist! Having spent 12 hours with my feet getting soaked due to condensate from the galley, I’d hesitate to to recommend KLM. Upon arrival at Schipol, the gate for departure for the connecting flight was changed 3 times. Oh, and to top it off, they over-booked the first leg of my return flight so that the F28 had to leave without me and 5 other pax. We were put in a Taxi from D