All About Amsterdam!

Priceline is a scam

admin — Tue, 03 May 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] I’ve never known any retail outlet which sells more than one product to ALWAYS have the lowest price, especially for a product of which I do alot of the definition. This is true whether it is Wallmart, Home Depot, or a clothing store. "Shopping around" is a constant and the travel business is no different. If there was one place to always go to always get the lowest price, everyone else would go out of business. In travel, where schedule and availability are a big part of the business, the lowest price is gonna be found through a variety of means everytime one enters the market. Funny all these people who seem to think as normal a professionnal agency who is unable to meet or beat prices offered elsewhere… In that case we dont need them, do we ?

It is normal that one agency isn’t always able to beat all prices from all competitors on all products simultaneously.

Response:

Funny all these people who seem to think as normal a professionnal agency who is unable to meet or beat prices offered elsewhere… In that case we dont need them, do we ?

No. You (and we) don’t. That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn’t it? * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

Funny all these people who seem to think as normal a professionnal agency who is unable to meet or beat prices offered elsewhere… In that case we dont need them, do we ?

I see. If there was one agency that could beat everyone else’s price, then there would be no need for more than one agency on earth, right? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Response:

First and foremost I can not see why your friend put in a bid of $499 + tax. I say that, because if the lowest price he could get elsewhere was was his bid amount. I would have at least bid 10% less or probably even more for this ticket. I also can’t see why can call this a scam. A scam is something where you are promised something and you don’t get that. No where did Priceline promise your friend that they would get him a ticket, as good, as what he could get else where. I found Priceline to never provide me fares, as good, as I can get elsewhere (via airline sites or Orbitz). If they are like Hotwire, they may offer great deals on last minute trips, but I have never tried them for that. Michael

Response:

Why would you bid 10 percent more at PL than you could get the ticket for on another site?

Response:

Funny all these people who seem to think as normal a professionnal agency who is unable to meet or beat prices offered elsewhere… In that case we dont need them, do we ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted. Priceline’s deals are based on deals Priceline makes with the airlines. They have a contract by which they can buy seats for $XX and offer them for sale. If somebody offers more than they have agreed to pay for the ticket, they’ll sell it. They are not under any obligation to sell for less than they pay for the seat, because they haven’t bought the seat until they have a customer for it. That’s the problem with Priceline – sometimes you can score, my experience is usually there are no bargains. [snip] Both of you have a funny idea about the travel business. The first poster calls priceline a scam because they don’t always offer a price as low as others. The second refers to variation between suppliers as a "problem". I’ve never known any retail outlet which sells more than one product to ALWAYS have the lowest price, especially for a product of which I do alot of the definition. This is true whether it is Wallmart, Home Depot, or a clothing store. "Shopping around" is a constant and the travel business is no different. If there was one place to always go to always get the lowest price, everyone else would go out of business. In travel, where schedule and availability are a big part of the business, the lowest price is gonna be found through a variety of means everytime one enters the market.

Response:

Well its their job to get in the loop and not just sell anything to anyone – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : There are a lot of bidding strategies for Priceline out there….I get the : idea that your friend is traveling quite some time in the future. If so, PL : doesn’t yet have bidding access to lower pricing than the price just paid. He is going next week. The fare is near the bottom of the page at http://www.japanair.com/e/promotions/superf.php . : In my experience, bidding more than 4-6 weeks before traveling is useless. : My best experience with PL was bidding 2-3 days before traveling….that can : bring real ‘fire sale’ pricing if the airline wants to fill seats. Well, looks line the airline has brought out "fire sale" pricing, but priceline is not in the loop

Response:

A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted. Relieved, he called JAL and booked the flights for $499 +tax.

Response:

I don’t see how that leads to the conclusion that Priceline is a scam. They’re a travel agency. Sometimes they have the best price, other times they do not. They do not claim to always have the best price. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Response:

Priceline is a scam because you found a ticket cheaper somewhere else, for this ONE trip? Priceline isn’t required to be the cheapest for every itinerary. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. If you don’t like the price they accept, then don’t use Priceline. My experience is that Priceline works better for hotel reservations. It is up to you to find the best choices for your trip. By the way, ORD-NRT for $499 return is a great price.

Response:

There are a lot of bidding strategies for Priceline out there….I get the idea that your friend is traveling quite some time in the future. If so, PL doesn’t yet have bidding access to lower pricing than the price just paid. In my experience, bidding more than 4-6 weeks before traveling is useless. My best experience with PL was bidding 2-3 days before traveling….that can bring real ‘fire sale’ pricing if the airline wants to fill seats.

Response:

Miguel and Blake : OK, maybe scam is a strong word, but what am I to think of a major travel agency whose quote is 40% above what is freely offered to anybody on an airline’s site? See http://www.japanair.com/e/promotions/superf.php and navigate to the bottom. : By the way, ORD-NRT for $499 return is a great price. I agree, although once I got $349 +tax. Was never able to repeat that, but what a memory. That too was JAL.

Response:

: There are a lot of bidding strategies for Priceline out there….I get the : idea that your friend is traveling quite some time in the future. If so, PL : doesn’t yet have bidding access to lower pricing than the price just paid. He is going next week. The fare is near the bottom of the page at http://www.japanair.com/e/promotions/superf.php . : In my experience, bidding more than 4-6 weeks before traveling is useless. : My best experience with PL was bidding 2-3 days before traveling….that can : bring real ‘fire sale’ pricing if the airline wants to fill seats. Well, looks line the airline has brought out "fire sale" pricing, but priceline is not in the loop

Response:

: I’ve always found them pretty good for hotels. I put in what seems to me to : be an overly hopeful price, and someone always seems to go for it. I’ve : saved massive amounts over the years, although it got harder when they : stopped taking foreign credit cards. Seems reasonable as there are many, many more hotels than airlines in the competitive arena.

Response:

OK, maybe scam is a strong word, but what am I to think of a major travel agency whose quote is 40% above what is freely offered to anybody on an airline’s site?

The airlines are always having specials that are only offered directly through their web sites. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Response:

: The airlines are always having specials that are only offered directly : through their web sites. Agreed, although this is not an internet only fare, you can book by phone, and also get it at Travelocity. The following agency doesn’t seem to know about 499 JAL fare, but they have a $529, which is a softer blow than $700: http://www.jtbusa.com/enhome/s-chi1.asp . My friend was quite excited about $469 AA mentioned on this page (as of today, I am sure the page changes), but it was all sold out. To be fair to to Priceline, maybe they didn’t have the 499 fare but would have accepted a higher offer like 529. We can never know. And their business model is based on us not knowing.

Response:

To be fair to to Priceline, maybe they didn’t have the 499 fare but would have accepted a higher offer like 529. We can never know. And their business model is based on us not knowing.

That’s true. But also their fares may come from a different pool than many other agencies’; they claim to have negotiated special deals. So that probably means they can get tickets for a low cost as compared to regular fares but may not help them when it comes to special fare sales. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Response:

Priceline’s deals are based on deals Priceline makes with the airlines. They have a contract by which they can buy seats for $XX and offer them for sale. If somebody offers more than they have agreed to pay for the ticket, they’ll sell it. They are not under any obligation to sell for less than they pay for the seat, because they haven’t bought the seat until they have a customer for it. That’s the problem with Priceline – sometimes you can score, my experience is usually there are no bargains. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Relieved, he called JAL and booked the flights for $499 +tax.

Response:

That makes it a scam? How? In what way did they rip him off or cost him money apart from his time? So for this one trip they didn’t have the best price. Get real. A scam would have taken his money and stuffed up the booking. I can’t use priceline.com any more because they discovered I wasn’t American. But when I did in 2003 (properly trained via biddingfortravel.com) for hotel bookings, they were bloody brilliant. My average cost for 2 1/2*-4* (apart from NYC, DC, and SF) across the USA over a month was US$35 per night. In those other cities, Times Square Millennium $111, Capitol Hilton $72, Sheraton Fisherman’s Wharf $60. And also Renaissance and Marriotts in Vienna, Munich and Brussels all under 60 euros. My only regret is that they eventually discovered that NSW Australia wasn’t in Alaska. If I’m lucky they’ll read this and let me re-join. I suspect I’ll see some avian porcines before that happens unfortunately. Cheers, Alan, Australia

Response:

Where are you? What did you do to overcome the problem? I’d appreciate advice direct if you don’t want to post it. loral at optusnet dot com dot au Cheers, Alan, Australia

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted. Priceline’s deals are based on deals Priceline makes with the airlines. They have a contract by which they can buy seats for $XX and offer them for sale. If somebody offers more than they have agreed to pay for the ticket, they’ll sell it. They are not under any obligation to sell for less than they pay for the seat, because they haven’t bought the seat until they have a customer for it. That’s the problem with Priceline – sometimes you can score, my experience is usually there are no bargains.

[snip] Both of you have a funny idea about the travel business. The first poster calls priceline a scam because they don’t always offer a price as low as others. The second refers to variation between suppliers as a "problem". I’ve never known any retail outlet which sells more than one product to ALWAYS have the lowest price, especially for a product of which I do alot of the definition. This is true whether it is Wallmart, Home Depot, or a clothing store. "Shopping around" is a constant and the travel business is no different. If there was one place to always go to always get the lowest price, everyone else would go out of business. In travel, where schedule and availability are a big part of the business, the lowest price is gonna be found through a variety of means everytime one enters the market.

Response:

I’ve always found them pretty good for hotels. I put in what seems to me to be an overly hopeful price, and someone always seems to go for it. I’ve saved massive amounts over the years, although it got harder when they stopped taking foreign credit cards. ant Where are you? What did you do to overcome the problem? I’d appreciate advice direct if you don’t want to post it. loral at optusnet dot com dot au

well, for half the year, my american bank accounts have an american address! I toyed, in my last port of call, with leaving the PO box current, and having them forward my mail, mainly for things like Priceline and other purchases where the addy box stops at "zip code". Next year I might try it. It certainly is annoying, maybe one day these people will work out that the world doesn’t stop where America does. ant

Response:

B'tselem: Apartheid Israel is strangling Gaza

admin — Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I didn’t write the article but the writer is not mixing up a thing. The Philistines were not Arabs. The "Palestinians" are an invention of Arab terrorism and expansionism and imperialism as Honigman notes. Deborah Nyob Mar 13 2002, 2:49 pm show options Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel, talk.politics.mideast, soc.culture.palestine Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse When ‘Palestine’ meant ‘Israel’ May 16, 2001 By Joseph Farah NEW YORK — Yasser Arafat and other Arab leaders have been trying to establish a link between modern-day "Palestinian" Arabs and the ancient people known as the Philistines. But a scholarly examination of the name "Palestine" suggests there is no connection and that use of the term has always been reserved for the land of the Jews. Written By David Jacobson in the May-June issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, the article entitled "When Palestine Meant Israel," shows firstly there is a discrepancy between Greek and Latin references to Palestine and the geographical land associated with the Philistines. Jacobson says the Philistines arrived on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean from Greece or Cyprus by way of Egypt in about the 13th century B.C. The land of the Philistines is clearly delineated in the Bible — a small area along the Mediterranean coast south of what is today Tel Aviv including the towns of Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Gath and Ekron. Meanwhile, the ancient literature referring to Palestine referred to a much bigger area — all the land between Egypt and Phoenicia. Furthermore, Jacobson explains, no more was ever heard from the Philistines after the late seventh century B.C., when the Babylonian king, Nebuchadnezzar, invaded the land and carried some of them into captivity — much as he did with the Jews 20 years later. "What happened to the Philistines afterward is a mystery," writes Jacobson. "They seem to have lost their ethnic identity, for the Philistines, as we know them, simply disappear from the historical record." That was nearly 800 years before Christ. The Philistines disappeared. They were never heard from again. Yet, Yasser Arafat is attempting to represent this extinct people 2,800 years later. There is even more evidence in Jacobson’s article that Latin and Greek texts referring to Palestine were actually referring to another name for Israel — the land of the Jews. Herodotus said the people of Palestine were circumcised. The Philistines were not, but the Jews of Israel were. Aristotle refers to the Dead Sea being in Palestine. The land of the Philistines was a long trek over the hills and through the wilderness of Judea from the Dead Sea. The Greek writer Polemo, in writing about the Exodus of the children of Israel from Egypt, mentions that a portion of the Egyptian army was expelled from Egypt and established itself in the country called "Palestinian Syria." Later writers — from Rome and Greece alike — make no distinction between the name Palestine and the land of the Jews. They were clearly not referring to the land of the Philistines. Will any of this evidence make any difference in the Middle East political equation today? Not likely. Because the modern conflict between Jews and Arabs has little or nothing to do with the illusive cause of Palestine. That has always been merely an excuse for the perpetual state of war that has existed between Jews and many Arabs since 1967. The issue of Palestine was rarely ever heard or addressed before then. Suddenly, Jerusalem, too, has emerged as the third-holiest site of all Islam. How convenient. One wonders why Muslims seemingly avoided it like the plague when it was under the control of the Islamic Ottoman Empire for so many years. The Jews have always flocked to Jerusalem — even when to do so meant certain persecution. In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of that holy city. The source for that statistic? A journalist on assignment in the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx. Yes, that Karl Marx. Those population statistics remained through the early part of the 20th century, according to the Encyclopedia Brittanica and the Baedaker travel guide published in 1906. By the way, none of those sources mentions any Philistines. There wasn’t a Philistine in sight — nor had there been for nearly three millennia. But that won’t stop Arafat’s charade. In fact, for a tyrant like him, the best subjects are the invisible ones, the silent ones, those with whom he will never disagree. Joseph Farah is editor and chief executive officer of WorldNetDaily.com and writes a daily column. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – youre really mixing up "Arab Nationalism" (which was influenced by the example of Ataturk and European national movements and admitedly had its flaws) with the sovereign rights of the Palestinians or "Philistines". Its notable that the Kurds of Turkey are of no great concern to American "regime changers" wringing their hands over the "subjugated peoples of the world". Maybe this has something to do with the helpful military strategic part Turkey plays for the US? There would not still be Berber speakers and Coptic Christians in North Africa and Egypt if right from the start, they had been treated as pariahs. The state of Israel has (I would suggest)a great deal to do with the lack of Jewish input in modern Alexandria (also a lot of them would have chosen freely to convert over the centuries to Islam, just as many ancient Jewish families in Palestine would have chosen along with their fellow Palestinians, to convert…not so much out of direct compulsion, but for the same reason people have assimilated in many cultures over the centuries). The modern growing "Islamic-chauvinistic" attitude sadly on display as a growing problem for the West as much as ethnic and religious minority groups, is more a reaction to the meddling with coups and guerrilla training in Afghanistan, of the non Arab non Muslim superpowers since the eighties, and the backing of Israel’s criminal Why create just one new Mideast state when you can have a few? By Gerald A. Honigman March 25, 2005 Well, the day has finally arrived. I now find myself in agreement with the Secretary General of the Arab League. Recently, at the end of the Arab League Summit, Amr Mussa declared that peace could not arrive until there was withdrawal from occupied territories, the creation of another state, and the return of refugees. He’s basically correct. So what if he got a few details mixed up. Native Copts in Egypt — millions of them– had their country overrun by conquering, settling, and subjugating Arabs. To this day, they never know when the next murder will occur, the next church will be burned down, and have learned that to survive they must consent to the forced Arabization process. Their leaders have even written that for Israel to "get along," then it too must consent to a variation of this. Pretty pathetic… Uncle Butros instead of Uncle Tom … but the same breed, if you know what I mean. Just imagine the worldwide outcry if Israel did this to Israeli Arabs. Copts fleeing their native land to escape this treatment are not even safe. Recently, Muslim Arabs brutally murdered a Copt who dared to disagree with them here in the States. The majority Berber population of North Africa saw its lands overrun as well over the past centuries by conquering, settling, and subjugating Arab hordes creating Arab empires. Imperialism is evidently only nasty when non-Arabs so indulge. Berbers who dared to insist on keeping their own pre-Arab language and culture have been murdered for trying to do so. A look on any number of websites dealing with Berbers in these regards will be revealing indeed. In 1968, Ismet Cherif Vanly wrote The Syrian Mein Kampf Against The Kurds (Amsterdam). A Kurdish nationalist, he described the murderous and brutal Arabization policies Syrian settling, conquering, and occupying Arabs employed against Kurds who predated them in the land by thousands of years. Settling, conquering, and occupying Iraqi Arabs did likewise to Mesopotamia’s ancient native Kurds (the Hurrians, Guti, Kassites, and Medes of old), Assyrians, and other non-Arab peoples as well –Jews included. Literally millions of native African Blacks have been butchered, maimed, enslaved, turned into refugees (all of this still going on today), seen their lands forcibly Arabized, and such. And not just in the Sudan. Half of Israel’s almost six million Jews originated in the "Arab"/Muslim World. They too predated the Arabs in many of those lands that they were forced to flee as refugees, leaving far more property and valuables behind than Arabs who fled in the opposite direction after the latter’s brethren invaded a reborn Israel in 1948. Alexandria Egypt’s famous Jewish community was prominent centuries before Jesus. The Jews of Iraq had been there at least since the days of the Babylonian Captivity and Nebuchadnezzar. The Jews of Yemen were on the Arabian Peninsula before Muhammad was born, and the latter Prophet of Islam fled Mecca to Medina, a Jewish date palm oasis on that peninsula where the Jews were still prominent when Muhammad sought refuge there during the Hijra. When they would not convert to his new faith (based largely on their own) nor accept his religio-political leadership, he butchered and

Response:

youre really mixing up "Arab Nationalism" (which was influenced by the example of Ataturk and European national movements and admitedly had its flaws) with the sovereign rights of the Palestinians or "Philistines". Its notable that the Kurds of Turkey are of no great concern to American "regime changers" wringing their hands over the "subjugated peoples of the world". Maybe this has something to do with the helpful military strategic part Turkey plays for the US? There would not still be Berber speakers and Coptic Christians in North Africa and Egypt if right from the start, they had been treated as pariahs. The state of Israel has (I would suggest)a great deal to do with the lack of Jewish input in modern Alexandria (also a lot of them would have chosen freely to convert over the centuries to Islam, just as many ancient Jewish families in Palestine would have chosen along with their fellow Palestinians, to convert…not so much out of direct compulsion, but for the same reason people have assimilated in many cultures over the centuries). The modern growing "Islamic-chauvinistic" attitude sadly on display as a growing problem for the West as much as ethnic and religious minority groups, is more a reaction to the meddling with coups and guerrilla training in Afghanistan, of the non Arab non Muslim superpowers since the eighties, and the backing of Israel’s criminal

Why create just one new Mideast state when you can have a few? By Gerald A. Honigman March 25, 2005 Well, the day has finally arrived. I now find myself in agreement with the Secretary General of the Arab League. Recently, at the end of the Arab League Summit, Amr Mussa declared that peace could not arrive until there was withdrawal from occupied territories, the creation of another state, and the return of refugees. He’s basically correct. So what if he got a few details mixed up. Native Copts in Egypt — millions of them– had their country overrun by conquering, settling, and subjugating Arabs. To this day, they never know when the next murder will occur, the next church will be burned down, and have learned that to survive they must consent to the forced Arabization process. Their leaders have even written that for Israel to "get along," then it too must consent to a variation of this. Pretty pathetic… Uncle Butros instead of Uncle Tom … but the same breed, if you know what I mean. Just imagine the worldwide outcry if Israel did this to Israeli Arabs. Copts fleeing their native land to escape this treatment are not even safe. Recently, Muslim Arabs brutally murdered a Copt who dared to disagree with them here in the States. The majority Berber population of North Africa saw its lands overrun as well over the past centuries by conquering, settling, and subjugating Arab hordes creating Arab empires. Imperialism is evidently only nasty when non-Arabs so indulge. Berbers who dared to insist on keeping their own pre-Arab language and culture have been murdered for trying to do so. A look on any number of websites dealing with Berbers in these regards will be revealing indeed. In 1968, Ismet Cherif Vanly wrote The Syrian Mein Kampf Against The Kurds (Amsterdam). A Kurdish nationalist, he described the murderous and brutal Arabization policies Syrian settling, conquering, and occupying Arabs employed against Kurds who predated them in the land by thousands of years. Settling, conquering, and occupying Iraqi Arabs did likewise to Mesopotamia’s ancient native Kurds (the Hurrians, Guti, Kassites, and Medes of old), Assyrians, and other non-Arab peoples as well –Jews included. Literally millions of native African Blacks have been butchered, maimed, enslaved, turned into refugees (all of this still going on today), seen their lands forcibly Arabized, and such. And not just in the Sudan. Half of Israel’s almost six million Jews originated in the "Arab"/Muslim World. They too predated the Arabs in many of those lands that they were forced to flee as refugees, leaving far more property and valuables behind than Arabs who fled in the opposite direction after the latter’s brethren invaded a reborn Israel in 1948. Alexandria Egypt’s famous Jewish community was prominent centuries before Jesus. The Jews of Iraq had been there at least since the days of the Babylonian Captivity and Nebuchadnezzar. The Jews of Yemen were on the Arabian Peninsula before Muhammad was born, and the latter Prophet of Islam fled Mecca to Medina, a Jewish date palm oasis on that peninsula where the Jews were still prominent when Muhammad sought refuge there during the Hijra. When they would not convert to his new faith (based largely on their own) nor accept his religio-political leadership, he butchered and enslaved them. Jews also took part in the resistance against the Arab imperial invasions of North Africa in the 7th century C.E. So, considering Amr Mussa’s above demands… It’s time that the Africans of southern Sudan gain independence from the Arabs who have butchered, subjugated, and enslaved them over the centuries–long before the hypocrites in the United Nations only recently first started to mutter anything at all about this. It’s time for thirty million truly stateless people — the Kurds — to finally get their sole state. They were promised one after World War I but saw it sacrificed on the altar of British petro-politics and Arab nationalism. An Arab Iraq was pieced together in its stead. Trusting Arabs — whether Shi’a or Sunni — is probably not a wise decision (regardless of what Foggy Bottom says)–given the track records of Arabs of any stripe towards these people. While Arabs — with almost two dozen states already, including one carved out of almost 80% of the original 1920 borders of "Palestine" and today called Jordan — have an American-sponsored roadmap to help create yet another for themselves, somehow those same folks demanding justice for Arabs seem deaf, dumb, and blind regarding Kurds. And it’s time for the subjugation of North Africa’s huge Berber populations to come to an end and for those folks to be able to decide if they want to remain forcibly tied to Arabs or not. If not, then why should they not get territory to create a Berber State if Arabs can get to have yet a second one carved out for themselves in "Palestine?" You see, Mr. Musa, justice should not be exclusively for Arabs. Unfortunately, for the Copts, not too much to offer here.? So many more will become refugees. And the above Arabs’ victims’ list is by no means complete. Just ask native Christian, Semitic but pre-Arab Lebanese–as just one other example. The hypocrisy of the conquering, racist, and subjugating Arab League is nauseating enough. That the latter, however, is widely supported in its demands on Israel by much of the rest of the world should be appalling to anyone with any semblance of fair play. I thought Dubya knew better. Unfortunately, despite his comments last April to the contrary, it now looks like I was wrong … a cruel April Fool’s joke, indeed, played on Mr. Sharon and his tiny, vulnerable country as well. Despite all of the international pressure on it to consent to becoming a reincarnated 1938 Czechoslovakia, ready to sacrifice itself for another "peace for all time," Israel must now muster the strength to do what it must do. The only appropriate response of Israel to all of this should be to counter offer-the Arab League peace for peace — not consent to slowly being eroded piece-by-piece — via the Arabs’ openly admitted "Trojan Horse" destruction in stages plans. And it must free itself from the belief that it must allow Arabs to determine the rules of the road if widespread violence erupts again. Abbas’ folks have said that they would support quiet only as long as Israel continues to cave in to all of their demands. And they’re the "moderates." Millions upon millions of non-Arabs became refugees because of the Arabs. Many of these people fled to America, Great Britain, Germany, and elsewhere. They’re not returning to those "Arab" lands. Likewise, Arabs will have to take care of their own refugees–created in a war that they started and far fewer in number — in the same manner. The occupied territories Amr Musa speaks of are disputed lands — not purely "Arab." Jews had as much or more rights to be on those lands as Arabs had. Much has been written about this, UN Resolution 242 indirectly addressed this, and leading experts such as Eugene Rostow, William O’Brien, Arthur Goldberg, Lord Caradon, and others have been quite vocal on these matters as well. Jews have a word describing demands such as those made by Amr Musa. It’s called chutzpah. If members of the Arab League wish to create a new Middle Eastern state, then Israeli and world leaders must insist that justice should begin closer to home. Views expressed by the author do not necessarily reflect those of israelinsider.

The DC-10 Aircraft

admin — Thu, 03 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

FWIW, the O’Hare crash was attributed to American changing the suspect engine with a forklift, thereby putting undo stress on the thrust link mounting pins that attached the engine to the wing.

That’s right, but the big problem was not that the engine fell off–airliners can continue to fly even if an engine drops off. The problem was that the hydraulic lines that control the flaps that make it possible to steer the aircraft were ripped out by the engine when it broke loose. The aircraft tilted to one side and the pilots were unable to control it. After this crash, the DC-10 (and others) were redesigned so that the hydraulic lines are placed toward the back of the wing away from the engine mountings, so that even if an engine falls off it can return to an airport. Not only that, but there is increased "redundancy" steering systems nowadays, so that if one system fails, another system can be used for the same function.

Response:

The problem was that the hydraulic lines that control the flaps that make it possible to steer the aircraft were ripped out by the engine when it broke loose. The aircraft tilted to one side and the pilots were unable to control it.

Close, but not quite. It had nothing to do with the flaps. When the hydraulic lines were severed, some of the leading edge slats on the left wing side retracted. This reduced the lift on that wing, and increased the speed where it would stall. The crew didn’t know the slats had retracted, since with the loss of the engine, the aircraft’s electrical power was also lost, and neither the slat asymmetric warning nor the stick shaker stall warning sounded. All the crew knew was that they had lost engine power, so they initiated an engine out procedure. American Airline’s rules for engine out at the time required that the pilot set up for maximum rate of climb with two engines. This caused the aircraft to slow, since speed was traded for altitude gain. When the airspeed dropped below a certain point, which was higher than the normal stall speed, the left wing stalled, and lost lift because of the lack of leading edge slats. This caused the aircraft to roll to the left, and no amount of aileron could counteract the roll. Had the crew maintained the airspeed they already had, rather than trading it off to gain altitude, the aircraft could have been saved. After this crash, the DC-10 (and others) were redesigned so that the hydraulic lines are placed toward the back of the wing away from the engine mountings, so that even if an engine falls off it can return to an airport.

More importantly, the hydraulic controls on the leading edge slats were redesigned so they wouldn’t allow the slats to retract if they lost pressure. Further, the electrical system was set up so the required alarms weren’t lost with the loss of the left engine. Not only that, but there is increased "redundancy" steering systems nowadays, so that if one system fails, another system can be used for the same function.

Exactly.

Response:

While public confidence was indeed shaken at the time of the accidents, mostly because of the extensive media coverage, the aircraft actually ended up with a safety record that was not that different from other commercial aircraft.

No kidding. People rarely fear the 747, yet one crashed in 1990-1991 in China, and then another one crashed in 1992 into an Amsterdam apartment block. In both instances TWO engines fell off. I dare say two engines falling off is much worse than one engine falling off, yet a huge stink was not made over the 747. The second one was an El Al cargo version, so less people were killed (mostly on the ground), so people did not pay as much attention, I suppose. Pete

Response:

Go to the database at www.airdisaster.com. The date of the Turkish crash was March 03, 1974. The American crash took place May 25, 1979. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year? Believe today is the anniversary date of the Turkish DC-10 crash. I flew that same DC-10 that crashed – if it was American Airlines out of O’Hare, just one month before it was lost on takeoff, and also believe that the 1974 crashes grounded the aircraft, and ended its sales. The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu, but don’t think MD ever sold another one after the O’Hare crash, public confidence in the aircraft’s safety was shaken. Besides, I always liked its twin, the L-10ll better. I flew on the aircraft probably 15 times after those crashes, and I remember it always was a smooth and comfortable and stable aircraft, but I always was psychologically nervous when aboard it – in fact, planning travel, I usually would go out of my way to book a route where a 727 of DC-8 flew instead of having to fly the DC-10, thing made me nervous after those crashes. What is the history of the crashes and the final chapter of the DC-10 aircraft? Thanx……Stan

Response:

Biman Bangladesh Airlines proudly flies them to various destinations from its base in Dhaka. The airline has a good safety record (never mind the service though!). Pictures: http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?cnsearch=47817/300&disti…

Response:

Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year?

The Chicago crash was in 1979. Believe today is the anniversary date of the Turkish DC-10 crash. I flew that same DC-10 that crashed – if it was American Airlines out of O’Hare, just one month before it was lost on takeoff, and also believe that the 1974 crashes grounded the aircraft, and ended its sales.

It is possible, but unlikely, that you flew the exact same aircraft. American Airlines owned lots of them by 1979, so it could have been any in their fleet. The crashes did not end the aircraft’s sales, as production continued until 1989. The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu, but don’t think MD ever sold another one after the O’Hare crash, public confidence in the aircraft’s safety was shaken. Besides, I always liked its twin, the L-10ll better.

There are still many DC-10s in service as passenger carriers. Northwest, as an example, has about 20 of them that they still use on some international routes. While public confidence was indeed shaken at the time of the accidents, mostly because of the extensive media coverage, the aircraft actually ended up with a safety record that was not that different from other commercial aircraft. I flew on the aircraft probably 15 times after those crashes, and I remember it always was a smooth and comfortable and stable aircraft, but I always was psychologically nervous when aboard it – in fact, planning travel, I usually would go out of my way to book a route where a 727 of DC-8 flew instead of having to fly the DC-10, thing made me nervous after those crashes.

Which is the typical reaction to all the media focus. The DC-10 actually ended up with about an average accident rate for aircraft of that era. It has been reasonably good, if you just look at the events over the last 25 years. What is the history of the crashes and the final chapter of the DC-10 aircraft?

The final chapter has not been written, as there are many DC-10s still flying.

Response:

Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year?

The Chicago crash was in 1979, IIRC.

Response:

Thanx for the input everybody, always can get the right answer over here, I haven’t seen a DC-10 in awhile, except the freight hauler one FedEx uses out of Ft.Lauderdale-Hollywood. I was traveling cross-country on American a lot in the mid and late 1970’s to LA and San Fran, I do believe, however, that the DC-10 that crashed at Chicago-O’Hare, I flew on that craft to San Francisco just a month or so earlier. I also seem to remember they grounded the plane for a safety check for a short time which probably also contributed to a loss in public confidence in the thing. I had no particular bad experience ever on a DC-10 (wasn’t a nervous flyer), but after the crashes, everytime I got aboard one, if I couldn’t get the 727 or Delta’s DC-8, was just nervous, and remember coming into O’Hare from Las Vegas in the middle of a snowstorm, coming down blind after circling O’Hare for about 1/2 hour. Thing was solid and smooth, and you couldn’t see a darn thing in the fog outside until it broke through…….Stan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year? Believe today is the anniversary date of the Turkish DC-10 crash. I flew that same DC-10 that crashed – if it was American Airlines out of O’Hare, just one month before it was lost on takeoff, and also believe that the 1974 crashes grounded the aircraft, and ended its sales. The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu, but don’t think MD ever sold another one after the O’Hare crash, public confidence in the aircraft’s safety was shaken. Besides, I always liked its twin, the L-10ll better. I flew on the aircraft probably 15 times after those crashes, and I remember it always was a smooth and comfortable and stable aircraft, but I always was psychologically nervous when aboard it – in fact, planning travel, I usually would go out of my way to book a route where a 727 of DC-8 flew instead of having to fly the DC-10, thing made me nervous after those crashes. What is the history of the crashes and the final chapter of the DC-10 aircraft? Thanx……Stan

FWIW, the O’Hare crash was attributed to American changing the suspect engine with a forklift, thereby putting undo stress on the thrust link mounting pins that attached the engine to the wing. The Turkish crash was a design issue if I recall correctly with the cargo doors. And there were many more -10’s sold after both.

Response:

The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu

Northwest put me on one from San Francisco to Tokyo less than a year ago. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Response:

Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year? Believe today is the anniversary date of the Turkish DC-10 crash. I flew that same DC-10 that crashed – if it was American Airlines out of O’Hare, just one month before it was lost on takeoff, and also believe that the 1974 crashes grounded the aircraft, and ended its sales. The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu, but don’t think MD ever sold another one after the O’Hare crash, public confidence in the aircraft’s safety was shaken. Besides, I always liked its twin, the L-10ll better. I flew on the aircraft probably 15 times after those crashes, and I remember it always was a smooth and comfortable and stable aircraft, but I always was psychologically nervous when aboard it – in fact, planning travel, I usually would go out of my way to book a route where a 727 of DC-8 flew instead of having to fly the DC-10, thing made me nervous after those crashes. What is the history of the crashes and the final chapter of the DC-10 aircraft? Thanx……Stan

Response:

Qantas $400 excess baggage charge for bikes.

admin — Fri, 28 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane? Nope, once you arrive you’re home-free. Biking from the airport into the city without a map is fun too!

haha.. I’m taking my race bike.. I don’t think it (nor I) can carry ~30kgs of suitcase-based luggage into the city! hippy

Response:

Yecch, that takes all the adventure out of it. It’s London, not Baghdad – there’s little downside to the occasional wrong turn… miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

Nope, once you arrive you’re home-free. Biking from the airport into the city without a map is fun too! I think the CTC can reply maps of "best" routes from London and Gatwick Yecch, that takes all the adventure out of it. It’s London, not Baghdad – there’s little downside to the occasional wrong turn…

There is less traffic in Baghdad! I managed to get free London cycling maps from the Heathrow Underground rail station (after telling me I couldn’t take a bike on the Picadilly line.) The "cycle path" consisted mostly of lines painted on the old pavement. Very rough. This was a fine Sunday – I wouldn’t want to brave weekday traffic.

Response:

I think the CTC can reply maps of "best" routes from London and Gatwick — Jack Russell

Response:

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?

Nope, once you arrive you’re home-free. Biking from the airport into the city without a map is fun too! dave: Qantas is still an option but it’s looking like Malaysian or KLM for now. I’ll get back to you on that..

Malaysia Airlines is the most comfortable and has the best in-flight service. Some awkward connections in KUL though. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I reckon has one more in it btw. Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a ’special’ cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags or (even more expensive) hardcases?

You can buy a larger box from Qantas (under $20). In Sydney you have to go to the domestic terminal (who knows why!). I believe VIcBike and BNSW may also sell them. They are a lot easier to pack the bike in. I have one of those expensive hard cases, bought last year. Trouble is that plus the weight of the bike is your whole baggage allowance. It took a great deal of fist thumping and cries of "never had this problem before" to not have to pay massive excess charges returning from Heathrow last year. Part of the trouble (I suspect) is that it does not look like a bike. A bare bike or one in a cardboard box tends to just get shunted off. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel. They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up nicely. And they laid on an earthquake for me. The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K. A 767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better. I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I decided to go an hour before that Return tickets have a 12-month or 18-month maximum duration. I’m going longer than that (planning to anyway) so a one-way is the sensible choice. The cheapest I saw from STA was the Malaysian/KLM one at around 1100+tax. It refuels in KL for 2hrs and then heads to Amsterdam. If I take this flight I’m going to spend a few days in ‘dam before heading on to London. I wonder how many people Heathrow gets coming in from Amsterdam that forgot to remove the lil baggies from their pockets..?! There is a more direct flight that costs $80 more on Austrian Airlines (Lauder??) but it doesn’t have the ‘fun stop’. Qantas actually had a $2k return ticket that you could get up until mid-May I think, which I thought was exceptional. I need to look around some more.. hippy

– Jack Russell

Response:

Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a ’special’ cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags or (even more expensive) hardcases?

The bike boxes Qantas provides when to buy them are much larger than what bikes are sold in to retailers. You Need to remove front wheel and seatpost, turn handlebar and remove pedals. And if you care about your bike, put some wood pieces across the box so that if they sit box on its side and stack luggage on top, it ios the wood pieces that carry the load and not your derailleur/frame/wheels. Some airlines provide bike bags. There are oversize string plastic bag. No need to remove wheels, but you still need to remove pedals and turn handlbars,. Seat can stay. Forces baggage handlers to take care of the bike. But doesn’t prevent bike from falling from trolley, or in airport with luggage belts wide enough for bike, you don’t know what happens to the bike beyond that curtain. (Avoid the Air Canada oversize belt at Dorval airport like the plague, insist on then getting a baggage handler). Expensive bike bags are not design to protect a bike, they are designed to allow you to carry the bike easily. (both wheels off for instance). Hardcases will protect your bike. However, beware of weight limits since the hardcase itself weighs a lot, and the airline may not like it if it is too heaby or goes over your weight limit if you are flying in a market that is weight limited.

Response:

The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I reckon has one more in it btw.

Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a ’special’ cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags or (even more expensive) hardcases? Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel. They dont actually tell you about it.. but when you get to the Jal hotel in Narita they just give you a room. Breaks the trip up nicely. And they laid on an earthquake for me. The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane. (air china) didnt actually exist. The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K. A 767 to Japan and a 747 to london. THe more engines the better. I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it. and I decided to go an hour before that

Return tickets have a 12-month or 18-month maximum duration. I’m going longer than that (planning to anyway) so a one-way is the sensible choice. The cheapest I saw from STA was the Malaysian/KLM one at around 1100+tax. It refuels in KL for 2hrs and then heads to Amsterdam. If I take this flight I’m going to spend a few days in ‘dam before heading on to London. I wonder how many people Heathrow gets coming in from Amsterdam that forgot to remove the lil baggies from their pockets..?! There is a more direct flight that costs $80 more on Austrian Airlines (Lauder??) but it doesn’t have the ‘fun stop’. Qantas actually had a $2k return ticket that you could get up until mid-May I think, which I thought was exceptional. I need to look around some more.. hippy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky.

Better than its predecessor BOAC "Better on a camel" — Jack Russell

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips? IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane? dave: Qantas is still an option but it’s looking like Malaysian or KLM for now. I’ll get back to you on that.. hippy

Its leaving London, the BA staff are a shambles. Since they handle many airlines they might be hard to avoid. Funnily enough I flew Brodeaux to Gatwick with BA last year. Did not have the bike protected at all (bit hard after a tour). No problems. Also 4 years ago flew NZ/United to Caracas. Had the bike boxed, no charge no problems. Returning from Caracas United charged me some nominal fee. So I guess it is all a bit random. — Jack Russell

Response:

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?

Nop. Once your luggage gets past the check-in counter, its is accepted all the way to destination. Baggage handlers don’t really know if you paid extra or not. Technically, if you interline, the second airline might page you if you’ve gone way above baggage allowance (they’d see number of pieces check in if they look for it). But I have never heard this happen. Generally, the baggage allowance of the originating airline is honoured by the other airlines on the same trip/ticket. When you get to a check-in counter manned by an airline whose policies are different, you need to assert your rights (and then it is good to know your own airline’s precise rules) and insist that they check the exact rules that apply to you as an airline X passenger. Point out that your ticket is on your airline X, and airline X’s rules apply and that you have no link to the airlien Y which may be the employer of the check in agent. If Y and X are part of the same airline allowance, pickup an alliance booklet that garantees seemless baggage rules from your airline across the whole network of airlines part of that alliance.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky.

IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow — Jack Russell

Response:

Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL. If you want any tips? IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane? dave: Qantas is still an option but it’s looking like Malaysian or KLM for now. I’ll get back to you on that.. hippy

Response:

A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky. We got onto Qantas in perth without trouble. Bikes were boxed as required. And the domestic flight on Air NZ from Wellington was OK, with a $20 per bike handling fee. But returning to Oz from Christchurch, the air-NZ staff acting for Qantas got strict. Bikes are officially included in the 20kg allowance, and they actually allow only 25kg each. So with 2x boxed touring bikes at 20kg each, and 15kg each bags, "that’ll be NZ$440 excess charge please". A chat with the Qantas ticketing office got us the same special deal that skis and golf clubs (i think?) get – ie the first 15kg of excess is charged as 3kg, so we only paid NZ$66 after moving some weight to carry-on. But that was apparently just because they chose to be nice to us. Be warned! Be very careful trying to fly out of Christchurch with bikes. You can save a few kg by loading the bikes unboxed, but will need to sign a limited release. Also, they don’t weigh the carry-on. I have seen one lady get challenged on that, but she had a _very_ heavy-looking wheeled case. Putting the locks in carry-on is a good idea, but Melbourne airport’s security people decided that D-locks were deadly weapons. We then managed to check them in. At other airports, they always noticed the locks on the X-ray, but didn’t care once identified. Good luck. NEXT TIME – I’ll be flying Virgin (Pacific) Blue. The bike counts as only 5kg, and excess charges are much lower – e.g. $25 for up to 30kg. http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.p… http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/beforeYouTravel/sportingEquipment (Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the people responsible for our aiport security. I’ll happily fight their security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me with a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two

I recently travelled (without bike) from Canberra to Sydney by coach. I arrived at the coach terminal about 15 minutes before departure, my luggage was not x-rayed, they did not care if I was carrying a jeweller’s screwdriver or a nail file, and the return trip of 560 km approx was $50 on a non refundable fare. The time from Jolimont Centre, Canberra to Eddy Avenue, Central Railway was 3.25 hours. It was all quite civilised. I will need a good reason to travel from Canberra to Sydney by air on either airline. John Dwyer.

Response:

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.travel.air.] A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky. [...] (Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the people responsible for our aiport security. I’ll happily fight their security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me with a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two

It becomes more understandable — note, not more acceptable, just more understandable — when you come to the realisation that airport security is not about security. It’s about the _appearance_ of security. Or, in other words: they don’t screen you to make sure that the flight is safe; they screen you to make sure that you _believe_ the flight is safe. If I walk through the metal detector at Melbourne airport, for example, I could be carrying a ceramic or glass knife, strapped to my thigh — and they wouldn’t know any different. Meals are served with a plastic knife … and a metal fork. Hell, I could do some pretty serious damage (with the right training) just with my glasses, especially if I carefully filed the ends to sharp points and covered them with rubber tips to conceal the sharp points. To tighten security up to the point where nothing dangerous gets on board would cost a fortune, and drive up air travel prices to the point where nobody would fly any more. And doing things effectively on board the plane (like having cockpit doors that are locked and effectively impenetrable from the passengers’ area) isn’t visible, so it doesn’t immediately allay fears of hijack/terrorism/whatever. Bruce Schneier has some interesting articles on this topic — google for "cryptogram" and have a search through the archives. —

Response:

A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky. We got onto Qantas in perth without trouble. Bikes were boxed as required. And the domestic flight on Air NZ from Wellington was OK, with a $20 per bike handling fee. But returning to Oz from Christchurch, the air-NZ staff acting for Qantas got strict. Bikes are officially included in the 20kg allowance, and they actually allow only 25kg each. So with 2x boxed touring bikes at 20kg each, and 15kg each bags, "that’ll be NZ$440 excess charge please". A chat with the Qantas ticketing office got us the same special deal that skis and golf clubs (i think?) get – ie the first 15kg of excess is charged as 3kg, so we only paid NZ$66 after moving some weight to carry-on. But that was apparently just because they chose to be nice to us. Be warned! Be very careful trying to fly out of Christchurch with bikes. You can save a few kg by loading the bikes unboxed, but will need to sign a limited release. Also, they don’t weigh the carry-on. I have seen one lady get challenged on that, but she had a _very_ heavy-looking wheeled case. Putting the locks in carry-on is a good idea, but Melbourne airport’s security people decided that D-locks were deadly weapons. We then managed to check them in. At other airports, they always noticed the locks on the X-ray, but didn’t care once identified. Good luck. NEXT TIME – I’ll be flying Virgin (Pacific) Blue. The bike counts as only 5kg, and excess charges are much lower – e.g. $25 for up to 30kg. http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.p… http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/beforeYouTravel/sportingEquipment (Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the people responsible for our aiport security. I’ll happily fight their security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me with a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two

Response:

CONTINENTAL AIR LINES

admin — Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES? I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

Hi Jack, Oops! I guess I should consider a different salutation when responding to a post about air travel. However, in a more serious vein, it would probably be a god idea to ask your questions of the folks at CAL. Earlier this year, I called to redeem miles for our flights to Vancouver and back from San Diego, and the helpful reservation rep told me about a "special deal" they had going at that time. If we were willing to fly on CAL’s partner airlines, we could fly first class for the same number of redeemed miles as coach on CAL. We flew to Vancouver on Northwest and from San Diego on Delta, even though we were using Continental Miles. Perhaps you could also expand your choice of destinations by using flights on "partner airlines"? Ray in NH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES? I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

You get a much better response if you went to a FREQUENT FLIER ng. www.frequentflier.com or www.flyertalk.com, then goto the CO area to talk. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jack, Oops! I guess I should consider a different salutation when responding to a post about air travel. However, in a more serious vein, it would probably be a god idea to ask your questions of the folks at CAL. Earlier this year, I called to redeem miles for our flights to Vancouver and back from San Diego, and the helpful reservation rep told me about a "special deal" they had going at that time. If we were willing to fly on CAL’s partner airlines, we could fly first class for the same number of redeemed miles as coach on CAL. We flew to Vancouver on Northwest and from San Diego on Delta, even though we were using Continental Miles. Perhaps you could also expand your choice of destinations by using flights on "partner airlines"? Ray in NH I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES? I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES? I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

Info on Getting to Mount kilimanjaro

admin — Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

oh – i forgot – id be leaving for my trip from Toronto, Canada – altho i could make the trip to New york if there would be significant cost savings to justify it. regards G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there everyone. id like to start off by thanking everyone for the amazing info on what to do in order to finish my last trip to Pamplona for the running of the bulls. it was tons of fun. Next summer i was hoping to go to Tanzania or Kenya – whichever is closer or easier to get to Mount kilimanjaro for a good climb to the top. If anyone can point me, a slow witted twenty something year old in the right direction – it would be much appreciated. From whatever preliminary info i could gather – it makes more sense to get to Kenya’s airport and somehow get a tour to the mountain since the . Dar-es-Salaam International Airport and Zanzibar International Airport seem to be a bit further but at least i dont need to deal with the hassles of customs. Again – i apologize for being so clueless about these things – but i really dont get to travel frequently. I am looking for any recommendations for the cheapest flights available, etc. Thanks again. G

Response:

KLM fly to Kilimanjaro airport from Amsterdam and from Toronto to Amsterdam. Sjoerd

Response:

yeah – i was looking at klm’s rates – their somewhat expensive tho at 2000$ or so US. the cheapest from one of the discount carriers was 1300$US. anyone else that knows a charter that goes that far?

Response:

Ethiopian Air also flies to Kilimanjaro Airport, and they have pretty good service. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah – i was looking at klm’s rates – their somewhat expensive tho at 2000$ or so US. the cheapest from one of the discount carriers was 1300$US. anyone else that knows a charter that goes that far? Hi there everyone. id like to start off by thanking everyone for the amazing info on what to do in order to finish my last trip to Pamplona for the running of the bulls. it was tons of fun. Next summer i was hoping to go to Tanzania or Kenya – whichever is closer or easier to get to Mount kilimanjaro for a good climb to the top. If anyone can point me, a slow witted twenty something year old in the right direction – it would be much appreciated. From whatever preliminary info i could gather – it makes more sense to get to Kenya’s airport and somehow get a tour to the mountain since the . Dar-es-Salaam International Airport and Zanzibar International Airport seem to be a bit further but at least i dont need to deal with the hassles of customs. Again – i apologize for being so clueless about these things – but i really dont get to travel frequently. I am looking for any recommendations for the cheapest flights available, etc. KLM fly to Kilimanjaro airport from Amsterdam and from Toronto to Amsterdam. Sjoerd

Response:

leah – thanx for the tip. i too was looking at EA – there seem to be a 6000$ price differential betweem them and KLM.

Ethiopian Air also flies to Kilimanjaro Airport, and they have pretty good service.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah – i was looking at klm’s rates – their somewhat expensive tho at 2000$ or so US. the cheapest from one of the discount carriers was 1300$US. anyone else that knows a charter that goes that far? Hi there everyone. id like to start off by thanking everyone for the amazing info on what to do in order to finish my last trip to Pamplona for the running of the bulls. it was tons of fun. Next summer i was hoping to go to Tanzania or Kenya – whichever is closer or easier to get to Mount kilimanjaro for a good climb to the top. If anyone can point me, a slow witted twenty something year old in the right direction – it would be much appreciated. From whatever preliminary info i could gather – it makes more sense to get to Kenya’s airport and somehow get a tour to the mountain since the . Dar-es-Salaam International Airport and Zanzibar International Airport seem to be a bit further but at least i dont need to deal with the hassles of customs. Again – i apologize for being so clueless about these things – but i really dont get to travel frequently. I am looking for any recommendations for the cheapest flights available, etc. KLM fly to Kilimanjaro airport from Amsterdam and from Toronto to Amsterdam. Sjoerd

Response:

Hi there everyone. id like to start off by thanking everyone for the amazing info on what to do in order to finish my last trip to Pamplona for the running of the bulls. it was tons of fun. Next summer i was hoping to go to Tanzania or Kenya – whichever is closer or easier to get to Mount kilimanjaro for a good climb to the top. If anyone can point me, a slow witted twenty something year old in the right direction – it would be much appreciated. From whatever preliminary info i could gather – it makes more sense to get to Kenya’s airport and somehow get a tour to the mountain since the . Dar-es-Salaam International Airport and Zanzibar International Airport seem to be a bit further but at least i dont need to deal with the hassles of customs. Again – i apologize for being so clueless about these things – but i really dont get to travel frequently. I am looking for any recommendations for the cheapest flights available, etc. Thanks again. G

Response:

Japan Questions

admin — Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Thanks a lot! This schedule really helps.

Response:

You can check schedules on Hyper Dia at the URL below. http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/ As you may already know, you cannot use the Japan Rail Pass on the premier Nozomi services, so you will need to catch Hikari or Hikari Rail Star trains and change en route (usually Shin-Osaka or Shin-Kobe is best).

And JR Central provides official timetable in English: http://jr-central.co.jp/english.nsf/doc/timetable/$FILE/Eastbound.pdf aka Delmonta http://www.ht.sakura.ne.jp/~delmonta/

Response:

Well, may be I should ask a more direct question. I will have to catch a 5:45 flight from Narita. Can I get to the airport from Hiroshima in one day? I would be glad to ride the fastest and greatest of "Bullet trains", but it looks like that Rail Pass will not give me even a partial credit for the cost of the ticket.

Can you? Yes. Is that a good idea? Not at all. John W.

Response:

It is certainly feasible to travel from Hiroshima directly on the same day. I would suggest taking an earlier departure from Hiroshima than those that Hiromitsu suggested, as you will want to be at Narita at least 2 hours before departure. You can check schedules on Hyper Dia at the URL below. http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/ As you may already know, you cannot use the Japan Rail Pass on the premier Nozomi services, so you will need to catch Hikari or Hikari Rail Star trains and change en route (usually Shin-Osaka or Shin-Kobe is best). — Dave Fossett Saitama, Japan

Response:

Well, may be I should ask a more direct question. I will have to catch a 5:45 flight from Narita. Can I get to the airport from Hiroshima in one day?

Yes, definitely you can. I would be glad to ride the fastest and greatest of "Bullet trains"

The trains available for your schedule are: (a) Spend two hours at the Airport Hikari #352 "RailStar": Hiroshima 9:55 – 11:28 Shin-Osaka Hikari #310 : Shin-Osaka 11:43 – 14:43 Tokyo Narita Express #29 : Tokyo 15:03 – 15:57 Narita Airport (b) Lunch-at-Shin-Osaka plan Hikari #272 : Shin-Osaka 12:20 – 15:10 Tokyo Narita Express #31: Tokyo 15:33 – 16:28 Narita Airport Note: There is no good approach from Hiroshima to Hikari #272. Take Hikari #352 above and spend an hour at Shin-Osaka. (c) Lunch-in-the-train plan Hikari #356 : Hiroshima 11:00 – 12:34 Shin-Osaka Hikari #312 : Shin-Osaka 12:43 – 15:43 Tokyo Narita Express #33: Tokyo 16:03 – 16:57 Narita Airport You’ll take about 10 minutes at Tokyo station for transfer from a Shinkansen track to a Narita Line track, while in Shin-Osaka you’ll take only two or three minutes between Shinkansen trains. aka Delmonta http://www.ht.sakura.ne.jp/~delmonta/

Response:

Another question. Japan Rail Pass doesn’t include "Nozomi" trains. But when I look at http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/ I can’t find any other trains between Tokyo and Hiroshima. I am not sure how can Itravel between those cities. It might also be better to search for a two-stage trip e.g. Toyko- ShinOsaka-Hiroshima. Dunno, though, as I’ve never tried to do this trip stright thoush, myself (although I know people who *did* do it back in April 2003).

Right. You’ll usually change Hikari trains at Shin-Osaka. In the area from Shin-Osaka to Hiroshima, "Hikari RailStar" trains are very comfortable, on which you get virtually first-class seat by economy class fare. aka Delmonta http://www.ht.sakura.ne.jp/~delmonta/

Response:

Thanks everyone! Another question. Japan Rail Pass doesn’t include "Nozomi" trains. But when I look at http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/ I can’t find any other trains between Tokyo and Hiroshima. I am not sure how can Itravel between those cities.

The hyperdia site only covers some of the train services. It is easy to travel between Tokyo and Hiroshima using any of the kodama or hikari trains. You *may* have to change trains once – but the information will be bilingual and easy to understand. Regards Declan http://www.yamasa.org

Response:

2004 12:42:27a Thanks everyone! Another question. Japan Rail Pass doesn’t include "Nozomi" trains. But when I look at http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/ I can’t find any other trains between Tokyo and Hiroshima. I am not sure how can Itravel between those cities.

Because of the cutbacks to non-Nozomi services, you may have to vary your desired departure time to get close enough to one that Hyperdia will find for you. Also, Hyperdia only returns 5 results at a time, which might demote some less direct connections. I can look up a paper timetable I have, if you’d like examples of actual possible connections (my timetable dates from about March this year so it should take into account the most recent cutbacks). It might also be better to search for a two-stage trip e.g. Toyko- ShinOsaka-Hiroshima. Dunno, though, as I’ve never tried to do this trip stright thoush, myself (although I know people who *did* do it back in April 2003). — Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Gene, In November it is extremely busy, as it is the best season to sea the fall-colours. I am not sure about the countryside, but most hotels (cheap to expensive) in Kyoto are already now VERY full. I would definitly book ahead, if you go to the countryside, you might try youthhostels. Nice,cheap hotels and ryokan in the cities like Kyoto however HAVE to be booked now. I think you are already a bit late. You might try the website of hte JNTO www.jnto.go.jp

You might have info that I don’t, but fall season is from now for about the next two or three weeks. I’ve been to Japan in November and it’s as uncrowded as you can get. Actually, October is not crowded either, though on weekends most tourist spots are (predictably enough). I have done last minute travel in the busiest seasons (New Years and Golden Week) and had absolutely no problems finding a place to stay. Sure you might not be in the best ryokan in Kyoto, but stay in Osaka, or Kobe, or Himeji and you’re fine. John W.

Response:

Dear Gene, In November it is extremely busy, as it is the best season to sea the fall-colours. I am not sure about the countryside, but most hotels (cheap to expensive) in Kyoto are already now VERY full. I would definitly book ahead, if you go to the countryside, you might try youthhostels. Nice,cheap hotels and ryokan in the cities like Kyoto however HAVE to be booked now. I think you are already a bit late. You might try the website of hte JNTO www.jnto.go.jp Hope you will still succeed! Giny Tozai Travel Amsterdam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! Please help me with Japan questions. Traveling over there in a second half of November. 1.. Should I book all accommodations in advance or try to have more flexibility and find a place to sleep upon arrival, considering my preference to cheaper places and zero Japanese skills? 2.. How easy to obtain Internet access, either from public computer or by means of prepaid card. I will have a laptop with me. 3.. Looks like trains between major cities are frequent. I am planning to buy a rail pass. Is there a chance that train will be so full, that I will not be able to find a seat? Gene

Response:

1.. Should I book all accommodations in advance or try to have more flexibility and find a place to sleep upon arrival, considering my preference to cheaper places and zero Japanese skills? Definitely book accomodations in advance. Inexpensive places are few in number in most major destinations, and tend to fill up.

Actually there are many inexpensive places to stay, and outside of major holiday times and resorts, most of the best deals (in any country) are found in country, at least in my experience. John W.

Response:

1.. Should I book all accommodations in advance or try to have more flexibility and find a place to sleep upon arrival, considering my preference to cheaper places and zero Japanese skills?

Definitely book accomodations in advance. Inexpensive places are few in number in most major destinations, and tend to fill up. 2.. How easy to obtain Internet access, either from public computer or by means of prepaid card. I will have a laptop with me.

There are Internet cafes all over the place in the major cities.

Response:

2.. How easy to obtain Internet access, either from public computer or by means of prepaid card. I will have a laptop with me.

In major cities, there are many internet cafes. Unfortunately, most of their PCs are with Japanese version of Windows and you cannot connect your private PC. 3.. Looks like trains between major cities are frequent. I am planning to buy a rail pass. Is there a chance that train will be so full, that I will not be able to find a seat?

Most trains have non-reserved seats. You may have to keep standing if no seat is available, but anyway you can go to the destination. Additionally, November is considered to be off-season and it will be easier to find a seat than in New Year vacation season. If you buy a first class (called "Green Car") rail pass, it will be much easier to get a seat, since first class seats are less occupied than economy class ones. aka Delmonta http://www.ht.sakura.ne.jp/~delmonta/

Response:

2.. How easy to obtain Internet access, either from public computer or by means of prepaid card. I will have a laptop with me. we were staying in western style youth hostels mostly which had net access.

free wifi seemed pretty common in tokyo and elsewhere, I was there on a conference, online most of the time, and even when people distributed off to different hotels etc. they often turned up wifi to be available. Someone also said Mosburger had free wifi, but I never actually looked for it. Jim.

Response:

In my experience you can typically get a better rate if you wait until you arrive to get your accomodations; this also gives you more flexibility. A lot of decent hotels are smaller and I’ve found you can get good prices at check in. An example is the Hotel Sungarden in Himeji, which online shows around Yen8,000 for a single; when I lived in Himeji I regularly saw promotions for that hotel at much lower rates. The downside is that you will spend a certain amount of time searching for lodging in a foreign land, dealing with non-English speaking hotel staff. 2.. How easy to obtain Internet access, either from public computer or by means of prepaid card. I will have a laptop with me.

Can’t help out here, unfortunately. Many hotels do; that much I know. 3.. Looks like trains between major cities are frequent. I am planning to buy a rail pass. Is there a chance that train will be so full, that I will not be able to find a seat?

There is always a chance the train will be full. However, if you’re traveling outside of peak seasons you should be fine. If you want you can always reserve a seat, even just before getting on the train. A good link (if you don’t have it) for train travel is www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english; great for rail travel planning. I’d bookmark that on your laptop and, if you do find Web access you can plan out the next day easier. John W.

Response:

1.. Should I book all accommodations in advance or try to have more flexibility and find a place to sleep upon arrival, considering my preference to cheaper places and zero Japanese skills?

well when i visited recently (backpacking) i felt more comfortable booking ahead. As it was so expensive (the most expensive country on our trip) we felt really apprehensive about turning up to where we went (kyoto, fukuoka, tokyo) with nothing booked just in case we got left high and dry at night with no option but to pay some exorbitant fee at the only hotels we could find at the time. in thailand or india for us it wouldn’t have been that much of a problem, but in japan for us it would have been crippling for our budget if we were unlucky. try this website for a potential hotel bargain: www.coo.ne.jp/english/ you have to be lucky to find a real bargain but they are a real possibility with this website. 2.. How easy to obtain Internet access, either from public computer or by means of prepaid card. I will have a laptop with me.

we were staying in western style youth hostels mostly which had net access. from sunil

Response:

Hello! Please help me with Japan questions. Traveling over there in a second half of November. 1.. Should I book all accommodations in advance or try to have more flexibility and find a place to sleep upon arrival, considering my preference to cheaper places and zero Japanese skills? 2.. How easy to obtain Internet access, either from public computer or by means of prepaid card. I will have a laptop with me. 3.. Looks like trains between major cities are frequent. I am planning to buy a rail pass. Is there a chance that train will be so full, that I will not be able to find a seat? Gene

Response:

backpacking and worries about drugs

admin — Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I did hear of a very nasty (pre-9/11) prank where a thin piece of metal was slipped into someone’s bag. It had a "gun" shaped outline so it showed up on airport x-ray machines but was very hard to find. This apparently goes on regularly – airline security staff test the system every now and then by sticking fake guns in people’s luggage and waiting to see if anybody notices. A couple months ago there was a news story about it when they missed taking one out again on the other end and the passenger was shocked to find this gun in his bags.

Wonder how they open people’s bags without them noticing? If this is true it sounds very risky – what if a passenger sees this happen and attacks and hurts/kills the security personnel? Some more advanced scanners have an in-built system (called TIP, Threat Image Projection on a machine I know of) which occasionally show the image of a gun, bomb, etc – if the operator does not respond they are not paying attention and alarms go off.

Response:

Did it occur to you that this could be a troll ? —

I hope so. Or it is a very sad traveller who worries about this. In my backpacking days many travellers would have been delighted to get free drug donations

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [..] And always avoid crowds or close contact with any person. Yeah! The best way of travelling! Avois contact to others, especially locals! Treat anybody as suspicious … if you cannot avoid communicating with others any longer, look out for the next internet cafe and post stupid questions into any forum! What precautions have you guys taken and have you had any trouble? [..] The security camera or a security guard might notice you though if you dump something at the trash can, but… if you do it unsuspiciously and carefully, they might not bother to inspect the trash can, and even if they did (assuming the trash can blew up), you will already be long gone anyway. How do you know when the bomb explodes? I mean you can never be sure that it blows up exactly 10 seconds after you dumped it! I suggest – in case that you find any suspicious item in you bag, you move out of the immigration, take a taxi to the next uninhabitated area and dump the thing there. you should then – off course put signs there. it is best to have this signs everytime with you (BEWARE, suspicious item out of my bag! Might explode!) – makes travelling a bit uncomfprtable, but brings you a real benefit in case that you need it … It should be noted that in addition of guarding so that people won’t put things inside your backpack without you noticing it, you also need to guard so that people won’t take things out of your backpack without you noticing it. really?? So why do people this? I think it is better to stay at home and watch more stupid movies! Manfred

There is a device called PACSAFE,you can buy it online at good stores and www.pac-safe.com ,it comes in different sizes and is a high tensile steel mesh that goes over your backpack and comes with a lock to lock it to a post to stop it being nicked and to stop people getting in it to take or plant things. They retail at about

Worth staying in a classy hotel?

admin — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

It bothers me whenever one of them posts that unless you live on $5 a day you can’t experience the local culture. That, of course, implies that everyone is poor and that any local who has any level of financial success automatically loses his culture. I think the point is more about the Hiltons, Marriotts, … are more or less similar all over the world.

That may be true in the US, but, at least with respect to Marriotts, is not true internationally. Many international Marriotts were formally individually-owned grand hotels. In Rome, the Marriott is the Grand Flora, which is quite unique (and quite nice). In London, it’s now called Grosvernor Square — I don’t know the original name — but it has a completely unique character. Same for the Champs Elysees Marriott in Paris. Not only is it the only hotel on the Champs Elysee, but it has a unique Parisian character not at all like any of the other international Marriotts. The same is true in Milan. The JW was, to my knowledge, built specifically as a Marriott, but it is quite spectacular and has nothing in common with the American implementations except the name. It’s a bit like going to a McDonald’s in Nova Scotia, ordering a McLobster, then saying you’ve ‘experienced local food delicacies’.

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree. I’ve stayed in 5-star "local hotels" as well as the international chains, and there is nothing to distinguish the two except that one will give me frequent stay points.

Response:

It’s kind of like saying that unless you sleep in the doorway of a department store and urinate all over the BART entrances and eat in a soup kitchen you can’t experience the true culture of San Francisco. Wait – what’s wrong with that?

Michael Moore will put you in one of his films and say it’s Bush’s fault.

Response:

But… most locals wouldn’t stay in some of the places I’ve stayed, so I’m not sure if a shabby, run-down hostel in the backstreets of Seoul, for example, count as experiencing local culture. I’d say if a person’s going to ‘experience’ a culture they’ll do it regardless of where they’re staying. Besides, you can’t really do that without spending a good bit of time in a place; I know lots of people that consider themselves ‘learned’ about a culture after only a week in country. John W.

Response:

I think the point is more about the Hiltons, Marriotts, … are more or less similar all over the world. It’s a bit like going to a McDonald’s in Nova Scotia, ordering a McLobster, then saying you’ve ‘experienced local food delicacies’.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is that the same Shangri-La that’s right next door? I haven’t stayed there, but I’ve eaten in its restaurant a couple of times. It’s nice atmosphere, which of their restaurants? comparable to the JW, as pricey but, IMHO, not quite as good. I know a lot of people who swear by the Shangri-La, though. There’s a third hotel in the same vicinity — the Intercontinental, perhaps? The Conrad? My understanding is that they’re all generally comparable. I stay at the JW because I a Marriott frequent stay point whore. In fact, most of my stays at that hotel, including one coming up at the end of this year, are free thanks to Marriott’s Reward Point program. oh, I thought this thread was about money being no object where would you stay… or is the question which portion of your budget would you allocate to lodging?

The question was, "is it worth staying in a classy hotel?", which I don’t translate as, "money is no object." Does everyone in this thread who is pro-5-star have someone else footing the bill?

I foot my own bill when I stay in 5-stars for leisure travel.

Response:

Wait – what’s wrong with that? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

Couldn’t agree more. My favorite is JWM in Bangkok. I’ve stayed at the Marriott which is down the river a bit, but never at the JW. The river resort was pretty nice, with spacious, beautifully furnished rooms. The JW in Bangkok must be spectacular.

To steal a line from a movie "it doesn’t suck". :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I travel a lot on business, so my boss gets to foot the bill. That keeps me Platinum for Marriott. I get upgraded to an Executive Suite whenever I’m in Bangkok and it makes all the difference in the world (as compared to a cheaper place). Nice! I once had to spend a month in Hong Kong for business — my hotel bill was over $10K but, of course, paid by the client. That year I made platinum — usually I’m gold, though last year my travel dropped dramatically and I’m only silver for this year. But, as you pointed out (and I have pointed out before), it’s a matter of taste. Some people don’t care. I have a hard time understanding that, but to each his own. What I always find interesting is that people like us, who prefer nicer hotels, have no problem respecting the choices of the super-budget travelers. However, it’s usually the super-budget travelers, like the OP, who insist on criticizing those of use who don’t enjoy shared baths and dormitory-style rooms when we travel.

As I’ve said before, most people of all stripes and backgrounds are nice. But you are right that among some backpackers there is an attitude that being poor somehow makes you superior(????). It bothers me whenever one of them posts that unless you live on $5 a day you can’t experience the local culture. That, of course, implies that everyone is poor and that any local who has any level of financial success automatically loses his culture. All of that is, for the most part, rationalization. What people experience living like that is not the culture of the country, but rather the culture of the poorest of the poor of that country. It’s kind of like saying that unless you sleep in the doorway of a department store and urinate all over the BART entrances and eat in a soup kitchen you can’t experience the true culture of San Francisco.

Response:

What I always find interesting is that people like us, who prefer nicer hotels, have no problem respecting the choices of the super-budget travelers. However, it’s usually the super-budget travelers, like the OP, who insist on criticizing those of use who don’t enjoy shared baths and dormitory-style rooms when we travel.

I gotta say, from where I’m sitting it’s been mostly the other way in this newsgroup lately (cited antecedent post excepted). miguel

Response:

I’ve only recently started revisiting rec.travel.asia, as I’m in the midst of planning a trip to Japan, China and Cambodia. At least on the other travel groups, there seems to be a certain cache to roughing it, i.e. it’s not really travel if you stay in anything above a 3-star. I can’t say what it’s been here, but the language of the original post in this thread certainly suggests a prejudice against those for whom hosteling is anathema.

Response:

Is that the same Shangri-La that’s right next door? I haven’t stayed there, but I’ve eaten in its restaurant a couple of times. It’s nice atmosphere,

which of their restaurants? comparable to the JW, as pricey but, IMHO, not quite as good. I know a lot of people who swear by the Shangri-La, though. There’s a third hotel in the same vicinity — the Intercontinental, perhaps?

The Conrad? My understanding is that they’re all generally comparable. I stay at the JW because I a Marriott frequent stay point whore. In fact, most of my stays at that hotel, including one coming up at the end of this year, are free thanks to Marriott’s Reward Point program.

oh, I thought this thread was about money being no object where would you stay… or is the question which portion of your budget would you allocate to lodging? Does everyone in this thread who is pro-5-star have someone else footing the bill?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in? Rather judgmental of you, don’t you think? When we travel, anywhere, we prefer to stay in nice hotels. We like a quiet room, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a generous tub, hot shower, etc. We like our privacy. We like having a base of operations which, among other things, has the support of a competent concierge, a business center, reliable phone service, etc. What may seem like big $$$ to you, isn’t big $$$ to everyone. One of our favorite hotels in the world is the J.W. Marriott in Hong Kong. First class service, beautiful (though small) rooms, and one of the most highly-regarded restaurants in Hong Kong. Yes, I prefer to stay there. No, I wouldn’t prefer to stay in a hostel in Hong Kong (or, for that matter, anywhere else). Couldn’t agree more. My favorite is JWM in Bangkok.

I’ve stayed at the Marriott which is down the river a bit, but never at the JW. The river resort was pretty nice, with spacious, beautifully furnished rooms. The JW in Bangkok must be spectacular. I travel a lot on business, so my boss gets to foot the bill. That keeps me Platinum for Marriott. I get upgraded to an Executive Suite whenever I’m in Bangkok and it makes all the difference in the world (as compared to a cheaper place).

Nice! I once had to spend a month in Hong Kong for business — my hotel bill was over $10K but, of course, paid by the client. That year I made platinum — usually I’m gold, though last year my travel dropped dramatically and I’m only silver for this year. But, as you pointed out (and I have pointed out before), it’s a matter of taste. Some people don’t care. I have a hard time understanding that, but to each his own.

Response:

Tchiowa kirjoitti: Couldn’t agree more. My favorite is JWM in Bangkok. I travel a lot on business, so my boss gets to foot the bill. That keeps me Platinum for Marriott. I get upgraded to an Executive Suite whenever I’m in Bangkok and it makes all the difference in the world (as compared to a cheaper place). But, as you pointed out (and I have pointed out before), it’s a matter of taste. Some people don’t care. I have a hard time understanding that, but to each his own.

Me too. I don’t visit Bangkok because there is not decent accommodation available.

Response:

Is that the same Shangri-La that’s right next door? I haven’t stayed there, but I’ve eaten in its restaurant a couple of times. It’s nice atmosphere, comparable to the JW, as pricey but, IMHO, not quite as good. I know a lot of people who swear by the Shangri-La, though. There’s a third hotel in the same vicinity — the Intercontinental, perhaps? My understanding is that they’re all generally comparable. I stay at the JW because I a Marriott frequent stay point whore. In fact, most of my stays at that hotel, including one coming up at the end of this year, are free thanks to Marriott’s Reward Point program.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in? Rather judgmental of you, don’t you think? When we travel, anywhere, we prefer to stay in nice hotels. We like a quiet room, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a generous tub, hot shower, etc. We like our privacy. We like having a base of operations which, among other things, has the support of a competent concierge, a business center, reliable phone service, etc. What may seem like big $$$ to you, isn’t big $$$ to everyone. One of our favorite hotels in the world is the J.W. Marriott in Hong Kong. First class service, beautiful (though small) rooms, and one of the most highly-regarded restaurants in Hong Kong. Yes, I prefer to stay there. No, I wouldn’t prefer to stay in a hostel in Hong Kong (or, for that matter, anywhere else).

Couldn’t agree more. My favorite is JWM in Bangkok. I travel a lot on business, so my boss gets to foot the bill. That keeps me Platinum for Marriott. I get upgraded to an Executive Suite whenever I’m in Bangkok and it makes all the difference in the world (as compared to a cheaper place). But, as you pointed out (and I have pointed out before), it’s a matter of taste. Some people don’t care. I have a hard time understanding that, but to each his own.

Response:

How does it compare to the Island Shangri-La?

Response:

What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

Rather judgmental of you, don’t you think? When we travel, anywhere, we prefer to stay in nice hotels. We like a quiet room, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a generous tub, hot shower, etc. We like our privacy. We like having a base of operations which, among other things, has the support of a competent concierge, a business center, reliable phone service, etc. What may seem like big $$$ to you, isn’t big $$$ to everyone. One of our favorite hotels in the world is the J.W. Marriott in Hong Kong. First class service, beautiful (though small) rooms, and one of the most highly-regarded restaurants in Hong Kong. Yes, I prefer to stay there. No, I wouldn’t prefer to stay in a hostel in Hong Kong (or, for that matter, anywhere else).

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

This is entirely a personal choice. If you’re going to be transient, meaning only in one place for a day or so at a time, and if you have no need for privacy then hostels may be your choice. If you’re going to be staying somewhere for a long time and you want a decent place to live then a hostel probably wouldn’t work. What you should look for is a hotel that is similar in living standards (amenities, quality, etc.) to the way you live at home. If you stay someplace for weeks at a time the "little things" will begin to grate on you after awhile. There are a lot of good, medium priced hotels. "Expensive" isn’t necessary. However, if you can afford it and you are staying in one place for a long time, then the added luxury of a good quality hotel can enhance your experience. Do you have an apartment or a house where you live? Throw a mattress on the floor and sleep on it (instead of sleeping in your nice, comfortable bed). Find a cheap part of your town and eat at "questionable" diners. Never cook at home and never eat at a good restaurant. Go down to the local homeless shelter to take a shower rather than using the privacy of your own house. Make sure that there is at least one drunk and 2 addicts sharing the shower with you. Wear the same clothes for several days without doing laundry. Walk to work in the morning instead of driving your car. Never turn on your A/C at home. Leave the windows open so the critters can share your experience. Do that for a month or two and see how much you are enjoying life. That will tell you how much "quality" is worth.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in? This is entirely a personal choice. If you’re going to be transient, meaning only in one place for a day or so at a time, and if you have no need for privacy then hostels may be your choice. If you’re going to be staying somewhere for a long time and you want a decent place to live then a hostel probably wouldn’t work. What you should look for is a hotel that is similar in living standards (amenities, quality, etc.) to the way you live at home. If you stay someplace for weeks at a time the "little things" will begin to grate on you after awhile. There are a lot of good, medium priced hotels. "Expensive" isn’t necessary. However, if you can afford it and you are staying in one place for a long time, then the added luxury of a good quality hotel can enhance your experience.

If you have the money to afford a swanky hotel it is also easier sometimes, particularly if you’ve done a full day of traveling, you’re exhausted, and you just can’t be bothere finding a room in a hostel. This happened to my wife and me in Europe; arrived in Amsterdam at night on a holiday and there were literally no rooms at the inns, and we absolutely had no money for the more expensive places; wound up shacking in some guy’s apartment (and he was kind enough to charge us a pittance…). But I’ve found hostels and inns are often as comfortable as the better hotels. A lot of times the things you pay for in a Hilton or Sheraton are things the average backpack traveler doesn’t always need, like high speed Internet connectivity in the rooms, room service, concierge service, etc. Pretty much all I’m looking for is a place to lay my head and not worry about mice crawling across me (which I’ve experienced, and don’t like). John W.

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

Do keep in mind that hotels in most of Asia are much cheaper than hotels of similar quality elsewhere in the world. You can find a decent room with a private bathroom and air conditioning for USD 20-30 in most Asian cities. Asian luxury hotels are mostly much cheaper than their counterparts in the US or Europe. USD 100-150 is standard, unlike the top-line hotels in major European and American cities. And the bottom of the line ‘guesthouses’ come as cheap as USD 3-5 in many cities.

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Personally I think hostels are a bit scary as most often you have to share the room aswell as the bathroom but is is a great experience if you like that kind of thing & you can meet lots of people(watch your belongings!) I agree with the other guys tho, air-con is pretty much a must over there and private bathroom is always nice. I do always have a week of luxury if I can afford it tho. A 5* hotel can be the same price as a crappy english b&b so why not for a while! What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

Absolutely agree. It is well worth some extra $$’s to be able to get at good shower, clean bed, good space to unwind after a long day out in the hot humid city (or whatever). I have had my share of lousy lodging while travelling round europe by train in the late 70’s early 80’s. If you can afford it the extra $$’s spent is forgotten the day after coming home anyway. knut

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

Everyone’s circumstances and preferences are different. I know one person who would book a 5* hotel at the end of trips, just so she enjoys some luxury before heading home.

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Normally I choose 3 star!! Except in Bangkok, where I keep going back to the Phatumwan Princess – 4 star – at a 3 star price; and so well positioned!!!

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel? Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

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Usually when I travel, I would stay in a 2 to 3 star hotel depending on the location. I guess for me what is important is really accessibility to where I need to go (near public transport zone), a safe environment and a no-nonsense place. Basic comfort is important which includes clean sheets, air-conditioning and a personal shower. I guess it depends on the situation. If you are travelling to meet a business client then a business class hotel might be a good place to be in or if it is your honeymoon and you want it to be a time to remember. Some travel via tour packages and they do not really have much choice of where to stay. Edwin

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need help athens,greece airport hotel

admin — Fri, 21 May 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I used various hotel booking site but could only find one very close and it was very expensive-$250+.We have a 6am flight and am not sure about staying in city and getting a cab at 2-3am…Anyone very familar with greece and what our best option would be.Also what is you favorite booking site for hotels-international–easy to use organizes by price location stars etc//Thanks so much nan

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Try http://www.tripadvisor.com/ – they have excellent reviews of hotels and a price-comparison engine. Never been to Greece, but used allrez.com to book a hotel in Amsterdam last year and was very pleased with the results. Eileen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I used various hotel booking site but could only find one very close and it was very expensive-$250+.We have a 6am flight and am not sure about staying in city and getting a cab at 2-3am…Anyone very familar with greece and what our best option would be.Also what is you favorite booking site for hotels-international–easy to use organizes by price location stars etc//Thanks so much nan

Response:

Nan, you are asking about the hotel at Athens International Airport? You probably are referring to the SOFITEL, it is the only hotel right at the new airport…….and it is a very fine one, luxury class. No, for Athens, the price of $250 is not expensive for luxury class….this summer the typical luxury class such as the newly renovated Hilton, and Grande Bretagne are starting out at about $450 and up….. Yes, you can find less expensive hotels in central Athens…….BUT……let’s say you get a less expensive, but still good fare both going to it and again back to the airport. The taxi will cost you about 25 Euros minimum, about $30 each way (you pay an additional fee for each piece of luggage and also during late hours, a "night" supplement )……so if you add on that additional sixty plus dollars to your $175,,,,,,well you are not saving that much….plus you need an additional hour to get down to the central you…… Taxis are plentiful in Athens…..unless, and it pains me to say this……unless they are on strike or work stoppage…..which happens If you can manage it, I still would recommend the SOFITEL at the airport….