Question:

 Many of the seaside towns are beautiful and fun!

But may well be crowded with tourists during August. — hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org            <http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html

Response:

Look at http://www.neeltjejans.nl/ to see the site of one of the biggest waterprojects in Dutch history. and see my site http://www.floriade.ws/ for all the information and photos of the Floriade 2002. Really worth a visit. Have fun in my country. Greetings, Astrid van der Knaap the Netherlands www.in-holland.ws www.floriade.ws

Response:

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. I’ve saved some links and other information for my future planning. Now I’m off to the US for a few weeks and don’t know if I’ll get to check the newsgroup. I’m not sure they have Internet connections there yet. Barbara No they don’t. (Oh, goody, I can post unfettered from the wrath of Judge Barbie.)

A flea like you isn’t enough to provoke my wrath. Barbara

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. I’ve saved some links and other information for my future planning. Now I’m off to the US for a few weeks and don’t know if I’ll get to check the newsgroup. I’m not sure they have Internet connections there yet. Barbara No they don’t. (Oh, goody, I can post unfettered from the wrath of Judge Barbie.) A flea like you isn’t enough to provoke my wrath. Barbara

Then don’t act like an easy troll.

Response:

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. I’ve saved some links and other information for my future planning. Now I’m off to the US for a few weeks and don’t know if I’ll get to check the newsgroup. I’m not sure they have Internet connections there yet. Barbara

No they don’t. (Oh, goody, I can post unfettered from the wrath of Judge Barbie.)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the possibilities we are thinking of for an August vacation is a week in the Netherlands. My husband is afraid that we will run into hordes of tourists and that maybe it would be better to loaf at home. I used to live in the Netherlands and my recollection is that Amsterdam and places like Delft were indeed a bit overrun in the height of the summer, but that if we mostly stuck to smaller less-visited cities, we wouldn’t find the crowds unpleasant. I was thinking of maybe basing ourselves in Leiden or Gouda, or maybe even in Utrecht. One of the things we might want to do is rent bikes and take a few day trips by bike. I thought maybe the Hoge Veluwe would be one nice place to do that. They used to have free bikes, but maybe they’re hard to come by in the height of the season. Does anyone know? When I lived there, we once took a very pleasant trip by bike in the environs of Gouda. We would probably also want to visit Amsterdam at least for a day. Another thing that would probably interest my husband, who is an engineer, is one of the drainage projects. Suggestions would be most appreciated. Any advice would be most welcome. Barbara

I’m also an engineer and offer another vote for the Cruquius. It’s on the SE outskirts of Haarlem. Besides the steam engine and pump, there is a fascinating working model of the hydrology of the Netherlands. They also have a large collection of old steam engines. —    * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *              http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

Response:

Many of the seaside towns are beautiful and fun! A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. I’ve saved some links and other information for my future planning. Now I’m off to the US for a few weeks and don’t know if I’ll get to check the newsgroup. I’m not sure they have Internet connections there yet. Barbara

Response:

They used to have free bikes, but maybe they’re hard to come by in the height of the season. Does anyone know?

I was in the Hoge Veluwe 18 months ago and I saw many parked white bikes available.

Response:

One of the possibilities we are thinking of for an August vacation is a week in the Netherlands. My husband is afraid that we will run into hordes of tourists and that maybe it would be better to loaf at home. I used to live in the Netherlands and my recollection is that Amsterdam and places like Delft were indeed a bit overrun in the height of the summer, but that if we mostly stuck to smaller less-visited cities, we wouldn’t find the crowds unpleasant.

Den Haag in July / August was by no means crowded two summers ago. Very nice place with bookshops, antiek shops, cafes, and the odd palace etc.  Utrecht is, indeed, also very nice. We would probably also want to visit Amsterdam at least for a day. Another thing that would probably interest my husband, who is an engineer, is one of the drainage projects. Suggestions would be most appreciated.

The Cruquius Museum might interest him. It’s the biggest steam engine in the world. Built to drain Haarlem mere. Still in situ but in course of restoration. Have a look here: http://www.cruquiusmuseum.nl/framesenglish.htm + more links on that site, in particular : http://hosting.etrade.nl/TP06891/home.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Any advice would be most welcome. Barbara

Response:

One of the possibilities we are thinking of for an August vacation is a week in the Netherlands. My husband is afraid that we will run into hordes of tourists and that maybe it would be better to loaf at home. I used to live in the Netherlands and my recollection is that Amsterdam and places like Delft were indeed a bit overrun in the height of the summer, but that if we mostly stuck to smaller less-visited cities, we wouldn’t find the crowds unpleasant.

True, august is still tourist season. Go towards the end of the month if possible. I was thinking of maybe basing ourselves in Leiden or Gouda, or maybe even in Utrecht. One of the things we might want to do is rent bikes and take a few day trips by bike. I thought maybe the Hoge Veluwe would be one nice place to do that. They used to have free bikes, but maybe they’re hard to come by in the height of the season. Does anyone know? When I lived there, we once took a very pleasant trip by bike in the environs of Gouda.

Hooge veluwe still has free bikes. The supply is indeed limited so…. YOu could base in Leiden, Gouda or Delft and take the train for a day trip to the Hoge Veluwe. There’s plenty of bike rental opportunities over there. We would probably also want to visit Amsterdam at least for a day. Another thing that would probably interest my husband, who is an engineer, is one of the drainage projects. Suggestions would be most appreciated.

They have a new museum over there dealing with all sorts of technique, (www.newmet.nl) although that is focused on kids I think. Spido (www.spido.nl) has a boat tour from Rotterdam to the big project in Zeeland, including a tour in the visitor;s centre there. In cruquius there’s a museum in an old steam powered pumping station (Www.cruquiusmuseum.nl) which you could combine with a visit to Floriade. Any advice would be most welcome.

well, there’s my 0.02$ worth (my invoice is in the mail). Feel free to mail me if you need more.

Response:

One of the possibilities we are thinking of for an August vacation is a week in the Netherlands. My husband is afraid that we will run into hordes of tourists and that maybe it would be better to loaf at home. I used to live in the Netherlands and my recollection is that Amsterdam and places like Delft were indeed a bit overrun in the height of the summer, but that if we mostly stuck to smaller less-visited cities, we wouldn’t find the crowds unpleasant. I was thinking of maybe basing ourselves in Leiden or Gouda, or maybe even in Utrecht. One of the things we might want to do is rent bikes and take a few day trips by bike. I thought maybe the Hoge Veluwe would be one nice place to do that. They used to have free bikes, but maybe they’re hard to come by in the height of the season. Does anyone know? When I lived there, we once took a very pleasant trip by bike in the environs of Gouda. We would probably also want to visit Amsterdam at least for a day. Another thing that would probably interest my husband, who is an engineer, is one of the drainage projects. Suggestions would be most appreciated. Any advice would be most welcome. Barbara

Response:

One of the possibilities we are thinking of for an August vacation is a week in the Netherlands. My husband is afraid that we will run into hordes of tourists and that maybe it would be better to loaf at home. I used to live in the Netherlands and my recollection is that Amsterdam and places like Delft were indeed a bit overrun in the height of the summer, but that if we mostly stuck to smaller less-visited cities, we wouldn’t find the crowds unpleasant. I was thinking of maybe basing ourselves in Leiden or Gouda, or maybe even in Utrecht. One of the things we might want to do is rent bikes and take a few day trips by bike. I thought maybe the Hoge Veluwe would be one nice place to do that. They used to have free bikes, but maybe they’re hard to come by in the height of the season. Does anyone know? When I lived there, we once took a very pleasant trip by bike in the environs of Gouda. We would probably also want to visit Amsterdam at least for a day. Another thing that would probably interest my husband, who is an engineer, is one of the drainage projects. Suggestions would be most appreciated. Any advice would be most welcome. Barbara

Response:

One of the possibilities we are thinking of for an August vacation is a week in the Netherlands. My husband is afraid that we will run into hordes of tourists and that maybe it would be better to loaf at home. I used to live in the Netherlands and my recollection is that Amsterdam and places like Delft were indeed a bit overrun in the height of the summer, but that if we mostly stuck to smaller less-visited cities, we wouldn’t find the crowds unpleasant.

True, august is still tourist season. Go towards the end of the month if possible. I was thinking of maybe basing ourselves in Leiden or Gouda, or maybe even in Utrecht. One of the things we might want to do is rent bikes and take a few day trips by bike. I thought maybe the Hoge Veluwe would be one nice place to do that. They used to have free bikes, but maybe they’re hard to come by in the height of the season. Does anyone know? When I lived there, we once took a very pleasant trip by bike in the environs of Gouda.

Hooge veluwe still has free bikes. The supply is indeed limited so…. YOu could base in Leiden, Gouda or Delft and take the train for a day trip to the Hoge Veluwe. There’s plenty of bike rental opportunities over there. We would probably also want to visit Amsterdam at least for a day. Another thing that would probably interest my husband, who is an engineer, is one of the drainage projects. Suggestions would be most appreciated.

They have a new museum over there dealing with all sorts of technique, (www.newmet.nl) although that is focused on kids I think. Spido (www.spido.nl) has a boat tour from Rotterdam to the big project in Zeeland, including a tour in the visitor;s centre there. In cruquius there’s a museum in an old steam powered pumping station (Www.cruquiusmuseum.nl) which you could combine with a visit to Floriade. Any advice would be most welcome.

well, there’s my 0.02$ worth (my invoice is in the mail). Feel free to mail me if you need more.

Response:

They used to have free bikes, but maybe they’re hard to come by in the height of the season. Does anyone know?

I was in the Hoge Veluwe 18 months ago and I saw many parked white bikes available.

Response:

One of the possibilities we are thinking of for an August vacation is a week in the Netherlands. My husband is afraid that we will run into hordes of tourists and that maybe it would be better to loaf at home. I used to live in the Netherlands and my recollection is that Amsterdam and places like Delft were indeed a bit overrun in the height of the summer, but that if we mostly stuck to smaller less-visited cities, we wouldn’t find the crowds unpleasant.

Den Haag in July / August was by no means crowded two summers ago. Very nice place with bookshops, antiek shops, cafes, and the odd palace etc.  Utrecht is, indeed, also very nice. We would probably also want to visit Amsterdam at least for a day. Another thing that would probably interest my husband, who is an engineer, is one of the drainage projects. Suggestions would be most appreciated.

The Cruquius Museum might interest him. It’s the biggest steam engine in the world. Built to drain Haarlem mere. Still in situ but in course of restoration. Have a look here: http://www.cruquiusmuseum.nl/framesenglish.htm + more links on that site, in particular : http://hosting.etrade.nl/TP06891/home.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Any advice would be most welcome. Barbara

Response:

Many of the seaside towns are beautiful and fun! A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. I’ve saved some links and other information for my future planning. Now I’m off to the US for a few weeks and don’t know if I’ll get to check the newsgroup. I’m not sure they have Internet connections there yet. Barbara

Response:

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. I’ve saved some links and other information for my future planning. Now I’m off to the US for a few weeks and don’t know if I’ll get to check the newsgroup. I’m not sure they have Internet connections there yet. Barbara

No they don’t. (Oh, goody, I can post unfettered from the wrath of Judge Barbie.)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the possibilities we are thinking of for an August vacation is a week in the Netherlands. My husband is afraid that we will run into hordes of tourists and that maybe it would be better to loaf at home. I used to live in the Netherlands and my recollection is that Amsterdam and places like Delft were indeed a bit overrun in the height of the summer, but that if we mostly stuck to smaller less-visited cities, we wouldn’t find the crowds unpleasant. I was thinking of maybe basing ourselves in Leiden or Gouda, or maybe even in Utrecht. One of the things we might want to do is rent bikes and take a few day trips by bike. I thought maybe the Hoge Veluwe would be one nice place to do that. They used to have free bikes, but maybe they’re hard to come by in the height of the season. Does anyone know? When I lived there, we once took a very pleasant trip by bike in the environs of Gouda. We would probably also want to visit Amsterdam at least for a day. Another thing that would probably interest my husband, who is an engineer, is one of the drainage projects. Suggestions would be most appreciated. Any advice would be most welcome. Barbara

I’m also an engineer and offer another vote for the Cruquius. It’s on the SE outskirts of Haarlem. Besides the steam engine and pump, there is a fascinating working model of the hydrology of the Netherlands. They also have a large collection of old steam engines. —    * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *              http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

Response:

Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. I’ve saved some links and other information for my future planning. Now I’m off to the US for a few weeks and don’t know if I’ll get to check the newsgroup. I’m not sure they have Internet connections there yet. Barbara No they don’t. (Oh, goody, I can post unfettered from the wrath of Judge Barbie.)

A flea like you isn’t enough to provoke my wrath. Barbara

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many thanks to all who responded to my questions. I’ve saved some links and other information for my future planning. Now I’m off to the US for a few weeks and don’t know if I’ll get to check the newsgroup. I’m not sure they have Internet connections there yet. Barbara No they don’t. (Oh, goody, I can post unfettered from the wrath of Judge Barbie.) A flea like you isn’t enough to provoke my wrath. Barbara

Then don’t act like an easy troll.

Response:

Look at http://www.neeltjejans.nl/ to see the site of one of the biggest waterprojects in Dutch history. and see my site http://www.floriade.ws/ for all the information and photos of the Floriade 2002. Really worth a visit. Have fun in my country. Greetings, Astrid van der Knaap the Netherlands www.in-holland.ws www.floriade.ws

Response:

 Many of the seaside towns are beautiful and fun!

But may well be crowded with tourists during August. — hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org            <http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html

Response:

Question:

… I don’t know if you have some special reason to visit Frankfurt, but if not, I would say skip it and instead add some smaller city in England or France to get a feel for those countries.

You could take a day-trip to York in England, which is only two hours by train (when they are running!).  Read this article concerning such a trip… http://maddogsbreakfast.com/mdb/gui/art/art119c.shtml While you are in London, I would say at the very least to take some day trips to some other nearby cities. British Rail sells cheap roundtrip day tickets, if you travel after rush hour.  

Now, I don’t like to appear pedantic, but on a point of detail, "British Rail" does not exist anymore.  The British Rail Network is split in many different areas, each owned and run by a different company.  For instance, if you took my advice on a day trip to York, then you would travel by the UK’s fastest Domestic train, the Intercity 225 with GNER.  Whilst, if you went to Bath for the day, you would probably use First Great Western. On the point about "cheap roundtrip day tickets" I do not know when you were last here, but our rail system is apparently one of the most expensive in Europe (I say "apparently" because I do not have the exact figures to hand.) Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your trip – oh, and whilst in Germany, stop off in Aachen! Yours, Robert UK

Response:

On the point about "cheap roundtrip day tickets" I do not know when you were last here, but our rail system is apparently one of the most expensive in Europe (I say "apparently" because I do not have the exact figures to hand.) That is also something I know, but aren’t the off-peak day tickets still a (relative) bargain? I have found that sometimes they cost little more than a one-way ticket. Barbara

Yes Off-peak tickets on the train (for travel starting after 0930h) only cost a little more than the one-way tickets… but that doesn’t make them a bargain !!! Try coach travel for cheap fares www.gobycoach.com paul e/uk

Response:

One of my answers was a blatant lie, in response to your patronising us! Happy Holiday!

And most of the others were wrong. Oktoberfest is in September for starters. A rental car for the itinerary proposed would never be cheaper for one person than taking the train; hotels in most of these cities are a lot cheaper than you suggest, gasoline is a good deal less than $7 a gallon. It’s hard to figure out which answer was the lie. Barbara

Response:

– Are European hotel costs comparable to large cities in the US? In my experience hotels in large cities in the US are cheaper than in Western Europe

Really? My impression was the opposite. Other than London, I’ve always found inexpensive centrally-located hotels, while in the US this is usually difficult. Barbara

Response:

Hello, I’m planning a relatively short tour of Europe in mid-September.  I hope to hit London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, and Amsterdam.  This will be my first time to Europe and I’m hoping someone who has experience on a tour like this will be willing to offer some advice.  Here are a few questions I have. – Of the cities listed above, which one would be easiest or most convenient to fly into?

I think the best best is to fly into the airport at one end of your list and work your way back to the one at the opposite end and return from there. It saves a lot of expense and travel time. – I would really like to rent a car and tour by driving.  Would anyone recommend against this and instead suggest going by train?

The first time I went to Europe I travelled by train with a 15 day unlimited travel pass. It was great Passenger train service in Europe is far superior to North America.  There are a number of of extra costs involved with cars. In addition to the high cost of gasoline, you will have the price of the ferry and parking. Parking can be very hard to find and very expensive. – Will lack of knowledge of a foreign language make things difficult while in the cities listed above?

I would recommend getting some language tapes or videos and phrase books to learn a few things to address people in their language. However, you will not have much trouble in Paris, Holland or Germany because most speak at least some English. – Are European hotel costs comparable to large cities in the US?

It depends on the city. London and Paris are very expensive, but I found German hotels a much better value. When I was in Reims in May, we had a suite in an IBS for $430 FF, and in Verdun we had a decent room in a motel for $230 FF.  That’s much cheaper than I could find anything at home. – Does anyone have hotel recommendations for these cities?

I have had good luck with Mercure hotels in Europe. – Are major credit cards accepted at most European businesses?

Yes. – Are credit cards or travellers checks the preferred way to pay?

I take a small amount of local currency, use credit cards for meals and hotels and get money out of ATMs, which are quite easy to find everywhere. – If there any other advice you can give?

Have fun.

Response:

 It depends upon the city, of course – I’m sure Minneapolis or Omaha are considerably less expensive than Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York City or Chicago, but even the elegant Amigo in Brussels (which Jack pointed out is really a five star, not the three stars Expedia gave it) was nowhere NEAR the cost of a similarly located hotel in New York City (where even the YMCA wants around $125 a night, unless you’re willing to share a bathroom!)

My experiences of US cities in the last few years has mostly been in cities without much tourist trade and/or staying somewhere not very central – so are probably atypical. Martin — City University Business School,  London, UK Fax   (020) 7040 8628    http://www.city.ac.uk/martin

Response:

You’ve had some other good information in response to your question, but I’d like to add my opinion about your itinerary. I would recommend hitting some smaller towns rather than confining your trip to large capital cities (other than the German portion of your trip). London and Paris are certainly high points of any visit, but they are large capital cities, very cosmopolitan and not at all representative of the countries they’re part of. I don’t know if you have some special reason to visit Frankfurt, but if not, I would say skip it and instead add some smaller city in England or France to get a feel for those countries. While you are in London, I would say at the very least to take some day trips to some other nearby cities. British Rail sells cheap roundtrip day tickets, if you travel after rush hour.  Also, I would suggest some other Dutch city rather than Amsterdam, or maybe in addition to Amsterdam. Leiden and Gouda were both favorites of mine when I lived there and Utrecht is also very nice.

Just to nit-pick on the terminology, Barbara, but "British Rail" ran its last passenger train back in early 1997, and it was formally abolished earlier this year when the Transport Act 2000 came into effect – its few remaining functions (like running the Transport Police) were subsumed into the Strategic Rail Authority (which cynics like me describe as having no strategy, and not much authority). It’s a bit difficult to find a term which describes the entire UK passenger railway, though "National Rail" is used in some contexts within the UK, but it would make some confusion in an international discussion like we get here! The other possibility is "ATOC" which is the Association of Train Operating Companies, but not many people in the UK would recognise the term… — Arwel Parry http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/

Response:

Some of these quetsiuons have already been answered, so here’s just my two extra cents on some selected questions: – I would really like to rent a car and tour by driving.  Would anyone recommend against this and instead suggest going by train? Yes, I recommend against it, unless you’re suicidal or want to become a mental wreck. Take the train or book a cheap flight.

…and many car rental agencies don’t allow you to bring the car out of the country…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of these quetsiuons have already been answered, so here’s just my two extra cents on some selected questions: – I would really like to rent a car and tour by driving.  Would anyone recommend against this and instead suggest going by train? Yes, I recommend against it, unless you’re suicidal or want to become a mental wreck. Take the train or book a cheap flight.

I would agree with the above statement, if you are going to a country where cars are driven on the opposite side, then the one that you are used too, or you only intend to stay in metropolitan cities. But you never really experience the beauty and charm of rural areas from a train. You can go and stop where ever your fancy takes you, and don’t have a rigid schedule to meet. Hands up, all the people  that like lugging their heavy bags around. I went to Germany this year and prior read many posts about "those crazy German drivers" on the Autobahn. Sure the odd guy will whistle past you in the left lane at 180-200 km/hr. But everyone drove very civilized by obeying the one mayor rule, of not over-taking stay out of the left lane. I enjoyed driving on the Autobahn and country roads. …and many car rental agencies don’t allow you to bring the car out of the country…

The restrictions are mainly for certain eastern countries on high-end models such as Mercedes, BMW, Audi and convertibles. You can take lower end models such as Ford, Opel, Peugeot  but you have to pay additional theft and damage insurance to take the vehicle to said areas. This extra insurance is also required by some companies for the southern part of Italy. Now you are going to ask: how do they check where you went in Italy? Well they don’t, but if your car gets stolen while you are in one of these areas, and you don’t have coverage. You suddenly bought yourself a car that cant even find. Karl

Response:

While you are in London, I would say at the very least to take some day trips to some other nearby cities. British Rail sells cheap roundtrip day tickets, if you travel after rush hour. Now, I don’t like to appear pedantic, but on a point of detail, "British Rail" does not exist anymore.

I knew that, but force of habit  … On the point about "cheap roundtrip day tickets" I do not know when you were last here, but our rail system is apparently one of the most expensive in Europe (I say "apparently" because I do not have the exact figures to hand.)

That is also something I know, but aren’t the off-peak day tickets still a (relative) bargain? I have found that sometimes they cost little more than a one-way ticket. Barbara

Response:

Hello, I’m planning a relatively short tour of Europe in mid-September.  I hope to hit London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, and Amsterdam.  This will be my first time to Europe and I’m hoping someone who has experience on a tour like this will be willing to offer some advice.  Here are a few questions I have.

You’ve had some other good information in response to your question, but I’d like to add my opinion about your itinerary. I would recommend hitting some smaller towns rather than confining your trip to large capital cities (other than the German portion of your trip). London and Paris are certainly high points of any visit, but they are large capital cities, very cosmopolitan and not at all representative of the countries they’re part of. I don’t know if you have some special reason to visit Frankfurt, but if not, I would say skip it and instead add some smaller city in England or France to get a feel for those countries. While you are in London, I would say at the very least to take some day trips to some other nearby cities. British Rail sells cheap roundtrip day tickets, if you travel after rush hour.  Also, I would suggest some other Dutch city rather than Amsterdam, or maybe in addition to Amsterdam. Leiden and Gouda were both favorites of mine when I lived there and Utrecht is also very nice. Also, you say this will be a relatively short tour. I don’t know how short that is, but for four different countries I would say three weeks is the absolute minimum of time if you want to experience anything. Barbara

Response:

Really? My impression was the opposite. Other than London, I’ve always found inexpensive centrally-located hotels, while in the US this is usually difficult.

Admitted, I’ve only taken one trip where I arranged my own accommodations, but I have to agree!  It depends upon the city, of course – I’m sure Minneapolis or Omaha are considerably less expensive than Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York City or Chicago, but even the elegant Amigo in Brussels (which Jack pointed out is really a five star, not the three stars Expedia gave it) was nowhere NEAR the cost of a similarly located hotel in New York City (where even the YMCA wants around $125 a night, unless you’re willing to share a bathroom!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Barbara

Response:

Hello, I’m planning a relatively short tour of Europe in mid-September.  I hope to hit London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, and Amsterdam.  This will be my first time to Europe and I’m hoping someone who has experience on a tour like this will be willing to offer some advice.  Here are a few questions I have. – Of the cities listed above, which one would be easiest or most convenient to fly into? – I would really like to rent a car and tour by driving.  Would anyone recommend against this and instead suggest going by train?

As far as you want to see the cities, and not the countryside in between, it saves you a lot of hassle to take the train. It takes you from downtown to downtown much easier and quicker. Driving in Paris and London is a nightmare. Trains are fast and efficient. In general, you’ll find that there is good efficient public transportation to take you almost anywhere you want to go in Europe. And gas is much more expensive than in the US. And then you’d have to deal with parking, learning traffic rules, worrying about accidents and thefts and insurance, and so on, and so on. Take the train and have a relaxing vacation instead. – Will lack of knowledge of a foreign language make things difficult while in the cities listed above?

With the exception of Paris, you’ll find that English is well understood in all the other cities. It’s actually understood quite a bit in Paris too, but learn some basic phrases in French, and make sure to use them whenever opening a conversation, before tryig English. I wouldn’t bother doing the same for German or Dutch. The Dutch are extremely competent in English, and many Germans know it quite well too. – - How easy is it to get across the channel from England to France, and what if you have a rental car?

If you have a car you have to put it on a train or a boat to cross the channel. Again, save yourself some trouble by not renting a car. – Are European hotel costs comparable to large cities in the US?

I’m no expert on US hotel prices (or European hotel prices, for that matter), but I’ve stayed in a decent hotel with relatively central location in Paris for about 50 USD. I don’t think you could do that in NY. — Are major credit cards accepted at most European businesses?

Yes. – Are credit cards or travellers checks the preferred way to pay?

Credit cards. Travellers checks are going out of fashion in Europe. ATMs are everywhere. Bjorn

Response:

Oh, and try to remember not to ask it at all if you’re in England. —

When in monaco I heard a woman on a motor scooter ask a pedestrian if she spoke French. Says something about Monaco I guess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark Brader, Toronto                "As always, breakfast recapitulated My text in this article is in the public domain.

Response:

Evelyn Gamble writes: I am a firm believer in having a phrasebook handy for whichever country I am in…

Personally I prefer a pocket dictionary, at least if I know a little of the language.  Not to say that a phrasebook is a bad idea. A polite "excuse me, do you speak English?" gets a lot more helpful responses than immediately launching into English…

Although at least once when I asked that, I got the answer "Of course." This was in Norway or Sweden, two of the countries where English is most widely spoken.  In countries like that, I tend to start with "Hello", just to warn the person I’m going to be speaking English; elsewhere, Evelyn’s advice is best if you can’t handle the local language. Oh, and try to remember not to ask it at all if you’re in England. — Mark Brader, Toronto                "As always, breakfast recapitulated My text in this article is in the public domain.

Response:

Hello, I’m planning a relatively short tour of Europe in mid-September.  I hope to hit London, Paris, Frankfurt, Munich, and Amsterdam.  This will be my first time to Europe and I’m hoping someone who has experience on a tour like this will be willing to offer some advice.  Here are a few questions I have. – Of the cities listed above, which one would be easiest or most convenient to fly into?

With the exception of Munich, it should be pretty much the same. You can get really cheap flights from London to many European destinations. <www.ryanair.com. – I would really like to rent a car and tour by driving.  Would anyone recommend against this and instead suggest going by train?

If you want to explore the countryside and do not like planning too much ahead, rent a car. If you want to explore the cites, take a train. If you’re on a budget, taking the train is generally the better option. It seems that renting a car is cheaper when done from the US, while buying train tickets is cheaper when done in Europe. When you rent a car, be prepared to get a major shock at the first gas station , fuel is expensive in Europe. If you do not want to spend too much time between one city and the next, take night trains. – Will lack of knowledge of a foreign language make things difficult while in the cities listed above?

Don’t know about Paris — everywhere else you can get by well with English. – Does anyone have recommondations as to the order I visit these cities (the only requirement is that I’d like to attend Oktoberfest in Munich).

See that you go to Munich Monday to Thursday, and try to make a hotel reservation ASAP. Apart from that, the obvious route is London – Amsterdam – Paris – Frankfurt – Munich (going from the NW to the SE). Depending on how you cross the Channel, you might want to go to Paris second, Amsterdam third. – How easy is it to get across the channel from England to France, and what if you have a rental car?

Generally getting across, even with a car, is technically extremely easy. Either you go to Dover (about 1 h SE of London) and take a ferry, or you take the train through the tunnel. (Don’t know about the tunnel and cars, though.)   Bad idea with a rental car, if for no other reason (like, the expense of getting the car transported cross-Channel) English rental cars have the steering wheel on the right, which will cause you no end of trouble in the rest of Europe. (Passing another car on a country road? Forget about it!) Besides, the rental companies might be less-then-enthusiastic about it. – Are European hotel costs comparable to large cities in the US?

I’m not sure about the US prices, and it depends a lot on where you are. London is propably the most expensive town in Europe, I’d be greatly surprised if prices there would be comparable to anything in the US. I’d expect to pay for a night in a decent hotel in Germany about 70-100 DM (between US$30 and 45 [?]) when travelling alone. You’re likely to find cheaper accomondation if you search for it. – Are major credit cards accepted at most European businesses?

In Germany, Visa and MasterCard are generally accepted. – Are credit cards or travellers checks the preferred way to pay?

Credit cards will do just fine IME, bring an ATM card, too, if you have one that works on European machines. – If there any other advice you can give?

Don’t panic, book accomondation early in Munich during Oktoberfest and in London generally, take your time — think about travel time (between 1/2 and 1 day) between cities, and if you want to do more than running from one major sight to another, stay at the very least 3 days in all of those cities.  (Making your complete itenary 15 days if you take night trains between cities.)   One exception, though:     Frankfurt is not one of the cities I’d recommend visiting. It has a few interesing museums (but Munich has far more), hardly any interesting historical buildings and few nice sights. Vaguely on-route from Paris to Munich are Strassbourg, Trier, Heidelberg, Ulm, Rothenburg and Augsburg, every one of which is IMO more worth a visit than Frankfurt. Of course, it depends on *why* you want to go to Frankfurt — e.g. it has better comic book shops than the other cities inge — I used to drive a Heisenbergmobile, but every time I looked at the speedometer, I got lost. === <http://home.foni.net/~lyorn/ — Stories, RPGs & Stuff

Response:

any of the cities would be good in take the last one out.

No. Car is cheaper and quicker. But boy, are you in for a surprise when you pay for the gas! $7 per gallon, average. Still cheaper than the train though.

Train is usually cheaper than train for one and parking will make up the difference (20 USD per day plus) – How easy is it to get across the channel from England to France, and what if you have a rental car?

Take the Eurostar and forgtet the car (leave or enter Europe through London so you only one way the channel) – Are European hotel costs comparable to large cities in the US?

Actually European rates are probably cheaper. You can stay in Paris for less than $100 a night, try that in New York City in a neighborhood that you can walk 24/7 – Are major credit cards accepted at most European businesses?

Yes MasterCard and Visa  Amex to a lesser extent

Response:

No. Just different. You may not be understood. Stop. Try again in a different way. Try to learn basic phrases in, say, Germany. Make a bit of an effort  Don`t come across as "I am AMERICAN. Behold me and my might, you miserable peasants, and weep"

I am a firm believer in having a phrasebook handy for whichever country I am in.  It’s true, if you have no familiarity with the language, the book’s instructions for pronunciation may render your use of a phrase incomprehensible to the natives, but if all else fails, you can point to the phrase in the book.  It’s also a good idea to learn a few phrases like "Good Morning!" and "please" and "thank you" and "excuse me" and "do you speak English?"   A polite "excuse me, do you speak English?" gets a lot more helpful responses than immediately launching into English, as though you assume he/she MUST speak it!  (And far more often that a foreigner asking someone here if they speak his/her language, you’re likely to hear "A little" – which may mean quite a lot, and generally enough to answer your presumably simple questions.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – – Does anyone have recommondations as to the order I visit these cities (the only requirement is that I’d like to attend Oktoberfest in Munich).  Make sure you are in Munich in October. – How easy is it to get across the channel from England to France, and what if you have a rental car? Very easy. Turn up and go. Two hours, shore to shore.

Question:

I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks Jim — Jim Sanchez – Sr. Systems Engineer

Response:

– I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks Jim — Jim Sanchez – Sr. Systems Engineer

But will it really be a vacation, with the phone? Donna Evleth

Response:

When you are on a trip that is very loosely organized as to exact days of arrival, it is fantastic to have one for last minute reservations. Another time it made for a guilt free trip that we took during the last remaining years of my wife’s father. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks Jim — Jim Sanchez – Sr. Systems Engineer But will it really be a vacation, with the phone? Donna Evleth

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. I am renting a car through AutoEurope and they are providing a cell phone free. i just have to pay a $30 fee for the delivery of the phone before I leave for Europe. Of course, all phone charges are my responsibility but there is no rental fee and no activation fee.

How much per minute? Are there a minimum number of minutes?? Michael

Response:

I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

When we were last in Paris, our hotel (Hotel de Fleurie, 6th) was offerring them for rent. In Paris it seemed de rigeur for everyone to walk around with a cell phone held to the ear. Must have been a lot of urgent business going on! Tom

Response:

I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

I am renting a car through AutoEurope and they are providing a cell phone free. i just have to pay a $30 fee for the delivery of the phone before I leave for Europe. Of course, all phone charges are my responsibility but there is no rental fee and no activation fee. Janet

Response:

I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks Jim — Jim Sanchez – Sr. Systems Engineer

Response:

– I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks Jim — Jim Sanchez – Sr. Systems Engineer

But will it really be a vacation, with the phone? Donna Evleth

Response:

When you are on a trip that is very loosely organized as to exact days of arrival, it is fantastic to have one for last minute reservations. Another time it made for a guilt free trip that we took during the last remaining years of my wife’s father. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. Thanks Jim — Jim Sanchez – Sr. Systems Engineer But will it really be a vacation, with the phone? Donna Evleth

Response:

I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

When we were last in Paris, our hotel (Hotel de Fleurie, 6th) was offerring them for rent. In Paris it seemed de rigeur for everyone to walk around with a cell phone held to the ear. Must have been a lot of urgent business going on! Tom

Response:

I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

I am renting a car through AutoEurope and they are providing a cell phone free. i just have to pay a $30 fee for the delivery of the phone before I leave for Europe. Of course, all phone charges are my responsibility but there is no rental fee and no activation fee. Janet

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am taking a vacation in Paris, Brussels, and Amsterdam this summer and would like to rent a cell phone while I’m there.  I’d pick it up in Paris and return in Amsterdam.  If anyone has any suggestions please let me know. I am renting a car through AutoEurope and they are providing a cell phone free. i just have to pay a $30 fee for the delivery of the phone before I leave for Europe. Of course, all phone charges are my responsibility but there is no rental fee and no activation fee.

How much per minute? Are there a minimum number of minutes?? Michael

Response:

Question:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. I’ve never been to Europe so I have nothing to gauge the travel times on, etc. I hear the efficiancy of most Euro rail services are hit-or- miss… THANKS in advance

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. I’ve never been to Europe so I have nothing to gauge the travel times on, etc. I hear the efficiancy of most Euro rail services are hit-or- miss…

European rail services are much more efficient than the American equivalents, in my experience. I assume you want to go to Italy (and Spain) by rail so that you can make stops along the way. If this is wrong, you might want to check out inexpensive air fares from London to Italy. Ryanair has very cheap tickets to several Italian airports, much cheaper than the train fare. I don’t know much about their service to Spain, but I assume it’s similar. Even if you take the train to Italy in order to see some intermediate places, you might want to fly back to London from Spain. Again, Ryanair sells cheap one-way tickets. There may be other airlines with similar fares; I know Ryanair because they have services out of an airport (Ancona) near my home. Also, if you haven’t already bought your ticket, see if you can’t get an open-jaws ticket allowing you to fly into London and out of some Spanish airport. Usually these don’t cost much more than ordinary round-trip tickets. The difference may be less than what it would cost to get back to London by train. Of course, if you have a rail pass, this is irrelevant. I don’t know how much time you’re planning to spend on this trip, but London-Italy-Spain-London is a very long haul, especially by train. Barbara

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute.

Save yourself trouble and expense, and free up more than a day of your vacation, by flying home from Spain.

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. I’ve never been to Europe so I have nothing to gauge the travel times on, etc. I hear the efficiancy of most Euro rail services are hit-or- miss…

As to the efficiency of European trains, has what you have heard compared them to rail travel in Japan or America.  From what I’ve seen they are quite efficiently run.  Mishaps do occur, but I think you are listening to some unreliable sources.  That said, Spain to London is a long train ride, although I have no idea of the time it takes.  It’s perhaps a bit longer than I’d care to spend on a train.  We don’t know why you have to do this.   Can you fly home from Spain or fly to London from Spain? —     <www.worldtable.com Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail,

One night Madrid to Paris (Talgo sleeper train; do not miss the dinner service); three hours Paris to London downtown. how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute.

It depends on your flight. Regards, ULF — Ulf Kutzner     Backhaushohl 46         D-55128 Mainz

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight?

Like others mentioned it is fastest to fly back from Spain. And you can fly back from Spain to London. But if you insist to go by train it also depends from where in Spain you calculate. From Madrid the best connection is about 18 hours. Depart 7:00 pm from Madrid (Chamartin) with train EN407 (Talgo, not cheap) arrival next day at Paris (Austerlitz) 8:30 am. Change by Metro from Gare d’Austerlitz to Gare du Nord. Departure from Paris (Nord) by Eurostar 10:19 am and arrival in London (Waterloo) 12:09 pm. There are more connections, but they include change at Hendaye (Spanish-French border) and in Paris (but than from Gare de Montparnasse to Gare du Nord). And they will take some extra hours. From Barcelona the connections are about of the same type. For most other parts of Spain it will take more time and require more changes of trains. Ernst Kers The Tram of Porto http://home.planet.nl/~ekers/

Response:

That said, Spain to London is a long train ride, although I have no idea of the time it takes.  It’s perhaps a bit longer than I’d care to spend on a train.  We don’t know why you have to do this. Can you fly home from Spain or fly to London from Spain?

I can save approximatly US$150.00 to go in London and out London as opposed to leaving from Spain.

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. I’ve never been to Europe so I have nothing to gauge the travel times on, etc. I hear the efficiancy of most Euro rail services are hit-or- miss… THANKS in advance

I agree with earlier posts that you should think about flying back to London.  Try the following links:- http://www.ryanair.com (doesn’t quite make it to Spain, but gets close) http://www.easyjet.com http://www.go-fly.com http://www.buzzaway.com http://www.iberia.com http://www.britishmidland.com For a review of each (except Iberia) and the airports they use in London, see my link below. Regards Zany B. Side http://www.londonside.com

Response:

I can save approximatly US$150.00 to go in London and out London as opposed to leaving from Spain.

Your train trip from Spain to London: How much will it cost you?

Response:

I can save approximatly US$150.00 to go in London and out London as opposed to leaving from Spain. Your train trip from Spain to London: How much will it cost you?

And that does not include vacation time lost traveling. Seems rather simple doesn’t it? MHS

Response:

I can save approximatly US$150.00 to go in London and out London as opposed to leaving from Spain. Your train trip from Spain to London: How much will it cost you? And that does not include vacation time lost traveling. Seems rather simple doesn’t it?

It’s never simple.  For one thing we are in on the tail end of the planning.   We have no idea if the RT London decision was at all an efficient of economic one.   I recall a travel agent telling me about advising someone (as a favor) on how to get from Paris to Amsterday cheaply and then letting them know that the RT fare they had to Amsterdam was no less expensive than a open jaw that would have enabled them to fly into Amsterdam and out of Paris.   Unfortunately, the ticket was a done deal and non refundable.  It was a question of asking for advice for the wrong thing at the wrong time. —     <www.worldtable.com Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, One night Madrid to Paris (Talgo sleeper train; do not miss the dinner service); three hours Paris to London downtown. how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. It depends on your flight.

Hurray. Someone has answered his question at last instead of (or what might have been best – as well as) all sorts of advice about not doing what he asked. Most of those people seemed to miss the point that travelling by train is quite a good way of getting an idea of the appearance of a wide area of a country. — Michael Forrest

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. I’ve never been to Europe so I have nothing to gauge the travel times on, etc. I hear the efficiancy of most Euro rail services are hit-or- miss… THANKS in advance

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. I’ve never been to Europe so I have nothing to gauge the travel times on, etc. I hear the efficiancy of most Euro rail services are hit-or- miss…

European rail services are much more efficient than the American equivalents, in my experience. I assume you want to go to Italy (and Spain) by rail so that you can make stops along the way. If this is wrong, you might want to check out inexpensive air fares from London to Italy. Ryanair has very cheap tickets to several Italian airports, much cheaper than the train fare. I don’t know much about their service to Spain, but I assume it’s similar. Even if you take the train to Italy in order to see some intermediate places, you might want to fly back to London from Spain. Again, Ryanair sells cheap one-way tickets. There may be other airlines with similar fares; I know Ryanair because they have services out of an airport (Ancona) near my home. Also, if you haven’t already bought your ticket, see if you can’t get an open-jaws ticket allowing you to fly into London and out of some Spanish airport. Usually these don’t cost much more than ordinary round-trip tickets. The difference may be less than what it would cost to get back to London by train. Of course, if you have a rail pass, this is irrelevant. I don’t know how much time you’re planning to spend on this trip, but London-Italy-Spain-London is a very long haul, especially by train. Barbara

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute.

Save yourself trouble and expense, and free up more than a day of your vacation, by flying home from Spain.

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. I’ve never been to Europe so I have nothing to gauge the travel times on, etc. I hear the efficiancy of most Euro rail services are hit-or- miss…

As to the efficiency of European trains, has what you have heard compared them to rail travel in Japan or America.  From what I’ve seen they are quite efficiently run.  Mishaps do occur, but I think you are listening to some unreliable sources.  That said, Spain to London is a long train ride, although I have no idea of the time it takes.  It’s perhaps a bit longer than I’d care to spend on a train.  We don’t know why you have to do this.   Can you fly home from Spain or fly to London from Spain? —     <www.worldtable.com Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail,

One night Madrid to Paris (Talgo sleeper train; do not miss the dinner service); three hours Paris to London downtown. how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute.

It depends on your flight. Regards, ULF — Ulf Kutzner     Backhaushohl 46         D-55128 Mainz

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight?

Like others mentioned it is fastest to fly back from Spain. And you can fly back from Spain to London. But if you insist to go by train it also depends from where in Spain you calculate. From Madrid the best connection is about 18 hours. Depart 7:00 pm from Madrid (Chamartin) with train EN407 (Talgo, not cheap) arrival next day at Paris (Austerlitz) 8:30 am. Change by Metro from Gare d’Austerlitz to Gare du Nord. Departure from Paris (Nord) by Eurostar 10:19 am and arrival in London (Waterloo) 12:09 pm. There are more connections, but they include change at Hendaye (Spanish-French border) and in Paris (but than from Gare de Montparnasse to Gare du Nord). And they will take some extra hours. From Barcelona the connections are about of the same type. For most other parts of Spain it will take more time and require more changes of trains. Ernst Kers The Tram of Porto http://home.planet.nl/~ekers/

Response:

That said, Spain to London is a long train ride, although I have no idea of the time it takes.  It’s perhaps a bit longer than I’d care to spend on a train.  We don’t know why you have to do this. Can you fly home from Spain or fly to London from Spain?

I can save approximatly US$150.00 to go in London and out London as opposed to leaving from Spain.

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. I’ve never been to Europe so I have nothing to gauge the travel times on, etc. I hear the efficiancy of most Euro rail services are hit-or- miss… THANKS in advance

I agree with earlier posts that you should think about flying back to London.  Try the following links:- http://www.ryanair.com (doesn’t quite make it to Spain, but gets close) http://www.easyjet.com http://www.go-fly.com http://www.buzzaway.com http://www.iberia.com http://www.britishmidland.com For a review of each (except Iberia) and the airports they use in London, see my link below. Regards Zany B. Side http://www.londonside.com

Response:

I can save approximatly US$150.00 to go in London and out London as opposed to leaving from Spain.

Your train trip from Spain to London: How much will it cost you?

Response:

I can save approximatly US$150.00 to go in London and out London as opposed to leaving from Spain. Your train trip from Spain to London: How much will it cost you?

And that does not include vacation time lost traveling. Seems rather simple doesn’t it? MHS

Response:

I can save approximatly US$150.00 to go in London and out London as opposed to leaving from Spain. Your train trip from Spain to London: How much will it cost you? And that does not include vacation time lost traveling. Seems rather simple doesn’t it?

It’s never simple.  For one thing we are in on the tail end of the planning.   We have no idea if the RT London decision was at all an efficient of economic one.   I recall a travel agent telling me about advising someone (as a favor) on how to get from Paris to Amsterday cheaply and then letting them know that the RT fare they had to Amsterdam was no less expensive than a open jaw that would have enabled them to fly into Amsterdam and out of Paris.   Unfortunately, the ticket was a done deal and non refundable.  It was a question of asking for advice for the wrong thing at the wrong time. —     <www.worldtable.com Food/Wine/Travel                      - new offer for car rental and leasing in Europe              posted 21 June 2000

Response:

My itinerary entails making my way from London down to Italy and probably Spain. My question is: how much time should I allow to get BACK to London? (I fly in and out of London) That is, going by rail, One night Madrid to Paris (Talgo sleeper train; do not miss the dinner service); three hours Paris to London downtown. how many days ahead should I leave in order to make my flight? I’d like to maximize my time in Spain though I’m not the type to get to the airport at the last minute. It depends on your flight.

Hurray. Someone has answered his question at last instead of (or what might have been best – as well as) all sorts of advice about not doing what he asked. Most of those people seemed to miss the point that travelling by train is quite a good way of getting an idea of the appearance of a wide area of a country. — Michael Forrest

Response:

Question:

Hi, Is there anyplace in Lisbon one can rent a camper? thanks, Deb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone traveled in Europe by renting a camper? We are considering renting a VW camper in Amsterdam and then traveling around for about 3 weeks mid-June into July.  We have 3 kids ages 16, 13 and 10 and this seems like the cheapest and easiest, logistically, for us. Hi Jim and Kathy, It’s a good idea to get around with a camper van in Europe. But a VW camper will be too small for 5 persons. There are at maximum 4 beds and, which is even more important, there are (normally) only 4 seats for driving. What you need is a motorhome with a cabin built on a van chassis, an RV that is called a "Class C motorhome" in the U.S., although the dimensions are by far smaller in Europe. Such a motorhome with 5 beds will have about 6 meters in length. To get a feeling look at the largest maufacturer of Europe: http://www.hymer.com You may calculate with 100

Question:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of <snip That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

You generally do get what you pay for

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf (75% elderly passengers) on September 22 – 7 PM departure from Toronto delayed while crew work on a faulty engine (could see them through the airport windows) – Landed in Halifax (10PM)- everyone off to the airport because engine failed – after 2 hours we are told crew has expired – can’t fly. – We are told aircraft is "unsafe to fly transatlantic but could certainly take us back to Toronto". We the passengers as a whole say: "no thank you! Bring another aircraft." – We wait. Crew expired, can’t fly anymore. There’s no crew available. We, the passengers demand: "find us hotel rooms". – Every hour or so we are told: "we’re still working on accommodation" until at 4 AM we’re told there’s a conference in the city and no rooms are left. – In the morning, after a sleepless night at the airport lounge we are told they found another aircraft, can’t take us to Dusseldorf though, instead we’ll be flown to Amsterdam and bused to Dusseldorf. – Most passengers get extremely upset, as it seems we won’t reach Amsterdam till late night and demand accommodation in Amsterdam instead of a joyful though sleepless bus ride. After a vote, we all want to sleep in Amsterdam, airline promises to arrange accommodation. – All pay phones are occupied by passengers trying to get through to CAnada 3000 headquarters – everyone is put on indefinite hold – or can’t get through to anyone in charge. – We land in Amsterdam close to midnight and are told there are no rooms in the city due to a conference. Some passengers go nuts and refuse further journey: they call around and sure enough are able to book themselves rooms at various hotels. – We reach Dusseldorf airport at 3 AM: no one to meet us. We try to sleep on the benches till our car rental agency opens at 7 AM. Not possible – security wakes us every 15 minutes. – When we get back to Canada we try to contact the airline to at least get an apology for a 29-hours sleepless journey to Europe – no answers to our mail inquiries, when we call the airline and demand to speak to whomever is in charge we are being put on hold – no one comes back to answer. That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf (75% elderly passengers) on September 22 – 7 PM departure from Toronto delayed while crew work on a faulty engine (could see them through the airport windows) – Landed in Halifax (10PM)- everyone off to the airport because engine failed – after 2 hours we are told crew has expired – can’t fly. – We are told aircraft is "unsafe to fly transatlantic but could certainly take us back to Toronto". We the passengers as a whole say: "no thank you! Bring another aircraft." – We wait. Crew expired, can’t fly anymore. There’s no crew available. We, the passengers demand: "find us hotel rooms". – Every hour or so we are told: "we’re still working on accommodation" until at 4 AM we’re told there’s a conference in the city and no rooms are left. – In the morning, after a sleepless night at the airport lounge we are told they found another aircraft, can’t take us to Dusseldorf though, instead we’ll be flown to Amsterdam and bused to Dusseldorf. – Most passengers get extremely upset, as it seems we won’t reach Amsterdam till late night and demand accommodation in Amsterdam instead of a joyful though sleepless bus ride. After a vote, we all want to sleep in Amsterdam, airline promises to arrange accommodation. – All pay phones are occupied by passengers trying to get through to CAnada 3000 headquarters – everyone is put on indefinite hold – or can’t get through to anyone in charge. – We land in Amsterdam close to midnight and are told there are no rooms in the city due to a conference. Some passengers go nuts and refuse further journey: they call around and sure enough are able to book themselves rooms at various hotels. – We reach Dusseldorf airport at 3 AM: no one to meet us. We try to sleep on the benches till our car rental agency opens at 7 AM. Not possible – security wakes us every 15 minutes. – When we get back to Canada we try to contact the airline to at least get an apology for a 29-hours sleepless journey to Europe – no answers to our mail inquiries, when we call the airline and demand to speak to whomever is in charge we are being put on hold – no one comes back to answer. That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of <snip That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

You generally do get what you pay for

Response:

Question:

  Me too, although I’ve done several single-engine ferries on Twin Commanders.  In that case, I was usually the only one aboard – but taking a full A-330 or 757 from Halifax to Toronto on one engine?  Not a bright move, if you ask me.

Oh, no, you couldn’t do a single engine ferry in an A330 or 757. I wouldn’t come close to doing it empty, and I don’t think our test pilots would even do it.  Taking passengers is completely out of the question (even if you could do it, taking FAs is out of the question). I’m sure they had either fixed or replaced the engine.  They still would not be able to take the aircraft over the Atlantic. After any major repair, a non-Etops proving flight is needed. The passengers would have had a completely repaired and safe flight from Halifax to Toronto. –Mark Rogers

Response:

–cut– Certainly.  The crew begins duty time when they show up at the airport, not when the flight begins.  After waiting for the maintenance delay, they were likely still legal to fly to DUS. After landing in Halifax and spending 2 more hours, it is certainly conceivable that they would no longer be legal to fly the next leg to DUS.

  Thanks for the info.  It still seems that even with the maintenance delay at Toronto and then the problem at Halifax that they would be pushing the limit – but maybe they flew in from somewhere else before picking up people at Toronto? –cut– After any major maintenance to an engine, a non-ETOPS proving flight must be completed before the aircraft is returned to ETOPS status.  I can understand why the aircraft would be able to fly to Toronto and not Duesseldorf, and would feel comfortable flying to Toronto, but I can also understand why passengers would be uncomfortable.

  Me too, although I’ve done several single-engine ferries on Twin Commanders.  In that case, I was usually the only one aboard – but taking a full A-330 or 757 from Halifax to Toronto on one engine?  Not a bright move, if you ask me. KRC

Response:

– 7 PM departure from Toronto delayed while crew work on a faulty engine (could see them through the airport windows) – Landed in Halifax (10PM)- everyone off to the airport because engine failed – after 2 hours we are told crew has expired – can’t fly.   That makes no sense – they were under their duty limits (which is not the province of the airlines) to fly Toronto-Dusseldorf, but were beyond them after flying Toronto-Halifax and waiting on the ground for two hours?  Are you sure you understood that right?

Certainly.  The crew begins duty time when they show up at the airport, not when the flight begins.  After waiting for the maintenance delay, they were likely still legal to fly to DUS. After landing in Halifax and spending 2 more hours, it is certainly conceivable that they would no longer be legal to fly the next leg to DUS. – We are told aircraft is "unsafe to fly transatlantic but could certainly take us back to Toronto". We the passengers as a whole say: "no thank you! Send another aircraft."   I believe most of Canada 3000’s aircraft are 757s and A330s, no?  If that’s the case, I totally understand why they could not proceed to Dusseldorf, but could return to Toronto.  Flying on over the Atlantic with one engine would probably be pushing the ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operations, aka "Engines Turning Or Passengers Swimming") limits of the aircraft.  Smart move to cancel at Halifax.  Even if the maintenance crews at Halifax got the engine running, it’s still probably a wise move to take it back to Toronto rather than attempting to cross an ocean.

After any major maintenance to an engine, a non-ETOPS proving flight must be completed before the aircraft is returned to ETOPS status.  I can understand why the aircraft would be able to fly to Toronto and not Duesseldorf, and would feel comfortable flying to Toronto, but I can also understand why passengers would be uncomfortable. –Mark Rogers

Response:

–cut– Don’t the charters buy/lease older aircraft from the major airlines?  I assume that older aircraft would be more likely to have problems.

  Not always.  Canada 3000 has some brand-new A330s, and I believe some fairly new 757s as well.  It depends on the charter airline, I guess – a lot of them do fly older aircraft, but a lot don’t. KRC

Response:

Does anyone know the real reasons charter carriers seem to be having a lot more equipment problems than scheduled carriers ? Don’t the charters buy/lease older aircraft from the major airlines?  I assume that older aircraft would be more likely to have problems.

I think of the major charters in Canada, only Air Transat has "older" planes in it’s fleet – they still have some L1011’s. Skyservice has A320s and A330s and C3000 has A330s, B757s and A320s. I guess they learned the hard lessons of Nationair and Worldways Scotty — Netnews and Listserv Admin                      519 824-4120 x2556 University of Guelph                     "If it’s not Scottish it’s CRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!"

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf, 75% elderly passengers.

C3K certaintly is not new. They’ve been around at least the last decade or so (someone correct me).  They are not "regular" airline, they are a charter airline. — Replies to hsi DOT chang AT usa DOT net, S.V.P.

Response:

Does anyone know the real reasons charter carriers seem to be having a lot more equipment problems than scheduled carriers ?

Don’t the charters buy/lease older aircraft from the major airlines?  I assume that older aircraft would be more likely to have problems.

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf, 75% elderly passengers. C3K certaintly is not new. They’ve been around at least the last decade or so (someone correct me).  They are not "regular" airline, they are a charter airline.

They changed their North American services to scheduled a couple of years ago. The overseas service continues to be chartered. Before you buy.

Response:

re: all the problems with a charter flight. When you pay much less for a flight, and something goes wrong, the airline has much less money available to help customers. If it were to put up passengers in hotels  whenever a plane breaks down, it would go bankrupt. If it were to have spare planes so that they wouldn’t dispatch problematic planes , then they would have to charge more. They charge less because they stack more people in the plane, and don’t treat you properly when things go wrong. I can only assume that one of the reasons that they seem to be more prone to equipment breakdowns is that their maintenance practices are at minimum legal levels and they don’t stock spare parts. Does anyone know the real reasons charter carriers seem to be having a lot more equipment problems than scheduled carriers ?

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf, 75% elderly passengers. – 7 PM departure from Toronto delayed while crew work on a faulty engine (could see them through the airport windows) – Landed in Halifax (10PM)- everyone off to the airport because engine failed – after 2 hours we are told crew has expired – can’t fly.

  That makes no sense – they were under their duty limits (which is not the province of the airlines) to fly Toronto-Dusseldorf, but were beyond them after flying Toronto-Halifax and waiting on the ground for two hours?  Are you sure you understood that right? – We are told aircraft is "unsafe to fly transatlantic but could certainly take us back to Toronto". We the passengers as a whole say: "no thank you! Send another aircraft."

  I believe most of Canada 3000’s aircraft are 757s and A330s, no?  If that’s the case, I totally understand why they could not proceed to Dusseldorf, but could return to Toronto.  Flying on over the Atlantic with one engine would probably be pushing the ETOPS (Extended-range Twin-engine Operations, aka "Engines Turning Or Passengers Swimming") limits of the aircraft.  Smart move to cancel at Halifax.  Even if the maintenance crews at Halifax got the engine running, it’s still probably a wise move to take it back to Toronto rather than attempting to cross an ocean. – We wait. Crew expired, can’t fly anymore. There’s no crew available. We, the passengers demand: "find us hotel rooms". – Every hour or so we are told: "we’re still working on accommodation" until at 4 AM we’re told there’s a conference in the city and no rooms are left.

  Understandable – Halifax isn’t Montreal or Toronto, there probably isn’t a lot of free accomodations with a convention in town.  I live in a city larger than Halifax, and hotel rooms can be hard to come by here with a major convention in town. – In the morning, after a sleepless night at the airport lounge we are told they found another aircraft, can’t take us to Dusseldorf though, instead we’ll be flown to Amsterdam and bused to Dusseldorf.

  That seems odd, but maybe with their small fleet, the plane had to be positioned in Amsterdam for a return service. – Most passengers get extremely upset, as it seems we won’t reach Amsterdam till late night and demand accommodation in Amsterdam instead of a joyful though sleepless bus ride. After a vote, we all want to sleep in Amsterdam, airline promises to arrange accommodation. – We land in Amsterdam close to midnight and are told there are no rooms in the city due to a conference. Some passengers go nuts and refuse further journey: they call around and sure enough are able to book themselves rooms at various hotels.

  Now that is probably because they were willing to pay more for a hotel than the airline was. – We reach Dusseldorf airport at 3 AM: no one to meet us. We try to sleep on the benches till our car rental agency opens at 7 AM. Not possible – security wakes us every 15 minutes. – When we get back to Canada we try to contact the airline to at least get an apology for a 29-hours sleepless journey to Europe – no answers to our mail inquiries, when we call the airline and demand to speak to whomever is in charge we are being put on hold – no one comes back to answer. That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

  As Canada 3000 is a charter airline, and charters are notorious for not being customer-friendly, I say caveat emptor.  I would have paid the extra $200 and flown with a more reputable scheduled carrier like Air Canada, BA, American, Lufthansa, or anyone else who was available. I’ve always been of the belief that if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.  Information is available about the reliability of various airlines, so there’s no reason for not having those facts. This group alone features a lot of trip reports about various airlines, as well as complaints about service, reliability, etc. KRC

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf, 75% elderly passengers. – 7 PM departure from Toronto delayed while crew work on a faulty engine (could see them through the airport windows) – Landed in Halifax (10PM)- everyone off to the airport because engine failed – after 2 hours we are told crew has expired – can’t fly. – We are told aircraft is "unsafe to fly transatlantic but could certainly take us back to Toronto". We the passengers as a whole say: "no thank you! Send another aircraft." – We wait. Crew expired, can’t fly anymore. There’s no crew available. We, the passengers demand: "find us hotel rooms". – Every hour or so we are told: "we’re still working on accommodation" until at 4 AM we’re told there’s a conference in the city and no rooms are left. – In the morning, after a sleepless night at the airport lounge we are told they found another aircraft, can’t take us to Dusseldorf though, instead we’ll be flown to Amsterdam and bused to Dusseldorf. – Most passengers get extremely upset, as it seems we won’t reach Amsterdam till late night and demand accommodation in Amsterdam instead of a joyful though sleepless bus ride. After a vote, we all want to sleep in Amsterdam, airline promises to arrange accommodation. – We land in Amsterdam close to midnight and are told there are no rooms in the city due to a conference. Some passengers go nuts and refuse further journey: they call around and sure enough are able to book themselves rooms at various hotels. – We reach Dusseldorf airport at 3 AM: no one to meet us. We try to sleep on the benches till our car rental agency opens at 7 AM. Not possible – security wakes us every 15 minutes. – When we get back to Canada we try to contact the airline to at least get an apology for a 29-hours sleepless journey to Europe – no answers to our mail inquiries, when we call the airline and demand to speak to whomever is in charge we are being put on hold – no one comes back to answer. That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip!

Hmmm – an anonymous reply to an anonymous posting!!  Why do I smell a rat!! Barry

Response:

I agree, and I would rather have a pilot who says, ‘I’m not risking flying across the Atlantic on one engine’, rather than ‘we might make it OK’. — Andrew Taylor. MSN-MHM (UK Member Services) Expedia Europe/Africa Senior Assistant http://expedia.msn.com      Crumplehorn Inn – Polperro http://www.crumplehorn-inn.co.uk          A nice place to stay ~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. This tale could be repeated by many travelers from many airlines.  Just bad luck. I have come to believe that Continental has a contractual arrangement to cancel any flight from Newark to Rochester when any member of my family is flying.  Doesn’t mean I won’t fly their planes to other places. My opinion of C3K – a bit austere but the value is good and the service comparable to any other domestic airline… like Continental for example. KeithC

Response:

Over 10 years ago I flew Canada 3000 to Amsterdam and returned to Toronto from Paris. It was OK, but crowded. I guess the price you pay, the way you go. — Piotr Golabek http://www.pair.com/poland

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip! Hmmm – an anonymous reply to an anonymous posting!!  Why do I smell a rat!!

What’s anonymous about the reply? — http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply?

‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.  I don’t trust anonymous.. especially when they just post an inflammatory post (OK this one was only just warm) and never post anything else even in reply to responses to a thread they begin. Trollers KeithC

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply? ‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.  

— http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/home.html

Response:

I agree, and I would rather have a pilot who says, ‘I’m not risking flying across the Atlantic on one engine’, rather than ‘we might make it OK’.

  Though I personally wouldn’t want a pilot who would say "But we’re perfectly safe flying within the continent on one engine…"  ;) -Ryan                                        http://www.lionking.org/~ryan/ "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that,  before each tee-shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them –  Oh my God, what have I just said?" — (USTV commentator, Jonny Huntridge)

Response:

KeithC (Goons fan… have a gorilla.  No thanks, I’m trying to give them up)

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply? ‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.

True — but YOU do tell us your name Ron! Barry

Response:

That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

We flew with them to Munich last May.  Very crowded, tight seats, skimpy, poor meals but that’s the tradeoff to save $200.  The return stopped in Halifax, where we had to clear customs.  Halifax is not equipped to handle large planeloads, so this was a very slow, very poorly organized process.  Many passengers swore they would never fly Canada 3000 again.  We might, to save money, but only if it’s a direct flight.

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip!

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start.

This tale could be repeated by many travelers from many airlines.  Just bad luck. I have come to believe that Continental has a contractual arrangement to cancel any flight from Newark to Rochester when any member of my family is flying.  Doesn’t mean I won’t fly their planes to other places. My opinion of C3K – a bit austere but the value is good and the service comparable to any other domestic airline… like Continental for example. KeithC

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start.

(snip) Why would the poster of this post anonymously if they wanted anyone to take any notice, I wonder? — Michael Forrest

Response:

No sure Michael, but interested to notice the posting host is psi.net who I have a daily battle against spamming me. My wife flied Canada 3000 and found them good. Trying 154.5.66 at ARIN Performance Systems International (NET-PSINET-B2-5)    165 Jordan Road    Troy, NY 12180    Netname: PSINET-B2-5    Netnumber: 154.5.0.0    Domain System inverse mapping provided by:    NS.PSI.NET   192.33.4.10    NS2.PSI.NET   38.8.50.2 — Andrew Taylor. MSN-MHM (UK Member Services) Expedia Europe/Africa Senior Assistant http://expedia.msn.com      Crumplehorn Inn – Polperro http://www.crumplehorn-inn.co.uk          A nice place to stay ~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. (snip) Why would the poster of this post anonymously if they wanted anyone to take any notice, I wonder? — Michael Forrest

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf, 75% elderly passengers. – 7 PM departure from Toronto delayed while crew work on a faulty engine (could see them through the airport windows) – Landed in Halifax (10PM)- everyone off to the airport because engine failed – after 2 hours we are told crew has expired – can’t fly. – We are told aircraft is "unsafe to fly transatlantic but could certainly take us back to Toronto". We the passengers as a whole say: "no thank you! Send another aircraft." – We wait. Crew expired, can’t fly anymore. There’s no crew available. We, the passengers demand: "find us hotel rooms". – Every hour or so we are told: "we’re still working on accommodation" until at 4 AM we’re told there’s a conference in the city and no rooms are left. – In the morning, after a sleepless night at the airport lounge we are told they found another aircraft, can’t take us to Dusseldorf though, instead we’ll be flown to Amsterdam and bused to Dusseldorf. – Most passengers get extremely upset, as it seems we won’t reach Amsterdam till late night and demand accommodation in Amsterdam instead of a joyful though sleepless bus ride. After a vote, we all want to sleep in Amsterdam, airline promises to arrange accommodation. – We land in Amsterdam close to midnight and are told there are no rooms in the city due to a conference. Some passengers go nuts and refuse further journey: they call around and sure enough are able to book themselves rooms at various hotels. – We reach Dusseldorf airport at 3 AM: no one to meet us. We try to sleep on the benches till our car rental agency opens at 7 AM. Not possible – security wakes us every 15 minutes. – When we get back to Canada we try to contact the airline to at least get an apology for a 29-hours sleepless journey to Europe – no answers to our mail inquiries, when we call the airline and demand to speak to whomever is in charge we are being put on hold – no one comes back to answer. That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip!

Hmmm – an anonymous reply to an anonymous posting!!  Why do I smell a rat!! Barry

Response:

I agree, and I would rather have a pilot who says, ‘I’m not risking flying across the Atlantic on one engine’, rather than ‘we might make it OK’. — Andrew Taylor. MSN-MHM (UK Member Services) Expedia Europe/Africa Senior Assistant http://expedia.msn.com      Crumplehorn Inn – Polperro http://www.crumplehorn-inn.co.uk          A nice place to stay ~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. This tale could be repeated by many travelers from many airlines.  Just bad luck. I have come to believe that Continental has a contractual arrangement to cancel any flight from Newark to Rochester when any member of my family is flying.  Doesn’t mean I won’t fly their planes to other places. My opinion of C3K – a bit austere but the value is good and the service comparable to any other domestic airline… like Continental for example. KeithC

Response:

Over 10 years ago I flew Canada 3000 to Amsterdam and returned to Toronto from Paris. It was OK, but crowded. I guess the price you pay, the way you go. — Piotr Golabek http://www.pair.com/poland

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip! Hmmm – an anonymous reply to an anonymous posting!!  Why do I smell a rat!!

What’s anonymous about the reply? — http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply?

‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.  I don’t trust anonymous.. especially when they just post an inflammatory post (OK this one was only just warm) and never post anything else even in reply to responses to a thread they begin. Trollers KeithC

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply? ‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.  

— http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/home.html

Response:

I agree, and I would rather have a pilot who says, ‘I’m not risking flying across the Atlantic on one engine’, rather than ‘we might make it OK’.

  Though I personally wouldn’t want a pilot who would say "But we’re perfectly safe flying within the continent on one engine…"  ;) -Ryan                                        http://www.lionking.org/~ryan/ "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that,  before each tee-shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them –  Oh my God, what have I just said?" — (USTV commentator, Jonny Huntridge)

Response:

KeithC (Goons fan… have a gorilla.  No thanks, I’m trying to give them up)

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply? ‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.

True — but YOU do tell us your name Ron! Barry

Response:

That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

We flew with them to Munich last May.  Very crowded, tight seats, skimpy, poor meals but that’s the tradeoff to save $200.  The return stopped in Halifax, where we had to clear customs.  Halifax is not equipped to handle large planeloads, so this was a very slow, very poorly organized process.  Many passengers swore they would never fly Canada 3000 again.  We might, to save money, but only if it’s a direct flight.

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip!

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start.

This tale could be repeated by many travelers from many airlines.  Just bad luck. I have come to believe that Continental has a contractual arrangement to cancel any flight from Newark to Rochester when any member of my family is flying.  Doesn’t mean I won’t fly their planes to other places. My opinion of C3K – a bit austere but the value is good and the service comparable to any other domestic airline… like Continental for example. KeithC

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start.

(snip) Why would the poster of this post anonymously if they wanted anyone to take any notice, I wonder? — Michael Forrest

Response:

No sure Michael, but interested to notice the posting host is psi.net who I have a daily battle against spamming me. My wife flied Canada 3000 and found them good. Trying 154.5.66 at ARIN Performance Systems International (NET-PSINET-B2-5)    165 Jordan Road    Troy, NY 12180    Netname: PSINET-B2-5    Netnumber: 154.5.0.0    Domain System inverse mapping provided by:    NS.PSI.NET   192.33.4.10    NS2.PSI.NET   38.8.50.2 — Andrew Taylor. MSN-MHM (UK Member Services) Expedia Europe/Africa Senior Assistant http://expedia.msn.com      Crumplehorn Inn – Polperro http://www.crumplehorn-inn.co.uk          A nice place to stay ~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. (snip) Why would the poster of this post anonymously if they wanted anyone to take any notice, I wonder? — Michael Forrest

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf, 75% elderly passengers. – 7 PM departure from Toronto delayed while crew work on a faulty engine (could see them through the airport windows) – Landed in Halifax (10PM)- everyone off to the airport because engine failed – after 2 hours we are told crew has expired – can’t fly. – We are told aircraft is "unsafe to fly transatlantic but could certainly take us back to Toronto". We the passengers as a whole say: "no thank you! Send another aircraft." – We wait. Crew expired, can’t fly anymore. There’s no crew available. We, the passengers demand: "find us hotel rooms". – Every hour or so we are told: "we’re still working on accommodation" until at 4 AM we’re told there’s a conference in the city and no rooms are left. – In the morning, after a sleepless night at the airport lounge we are told they found another aircraft, can’t take us to Dusseldorf though, instead we’ll be flown to Amsterdam and bused to Dusseldorf. – Most passengers get extremely upset, as it seems we won’t reach Amsterdam till late night and demand accommodation in Amsterdam instead of a joyful though sleepless bus ride. After a vote, we all want to sleep in Amsterdam, airline promises to arrange accommodation. – We land in Amsterdam close to midnight and are told there are no rooms in the city due to a conference. Some passengers go nuts and refuse further journey: they call around and sure enough are able to book themselves rooms at various hotels. – We reach Dusseldorf airport at 3 AM: no one to meet us. We try to sleep on the benches till our car rental agency opens at 7 AM. Not possible – security wakes us every 15 minutes. – When we get back to Canada we try to contact the airline to at least get an apology for a 29-hours sleepless journey to Europe – no answers to our mail inquiries, when we call the airline and demand to speak to whomever is in charge we are being put on hold – no one comes back to answer. That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

Response:

Question:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. We heard good comments about this new airline so decided to fly with them. The list of complaints could take up a gigabit so here’s just a short description of flight 340, Toronto-Dusseldorf, 75% elderly passengers. – 7 PM departure from Toronto delayed while crew work on a faulty engine (could see them through the airport windows) – Landed in Halifax (10PM)- everyone off to the airport because engine failed – after 2 hours we are told crew has expired – can’t fly. – We are told aircraft is "unsafe to fly transatlantic but could certainly take us back to Toronto". We the passengers as a whole say: "no thank you! Send another aircraft." – We wait. Crew expired, can’t fly anymore. There’s no crew available. We, the passengers demand: "find us hotel rooms". – Every hour or so we are told: "we’re still working on accommodation" until at 4 AM we’re told there’s a conference in the city and no rooms are left. – In the morning, after a sleepless night at the airport lounge we are told they found another aircraft, can’t take us to Dusseldorf though, instead we’ll be flown to Amsterdam and bused to Dusseldorf. – Most passengers get extremely upset, as it seems we won’t reach Amsterdam till late night and demand accommodation in Amsterdam instead of a joyful though sleepless bus ride. After a vote, we all want to sleep in Amsterdam, airline promises to arrange accommodation. – We land in Amsterdam close to midnight and are told there are no rooms in the city due to a conference. Some passengers go nuts and refuse further journey: they call around and sure enough are able to book themselves rooms at various hotels. – We reach Dusseldorf airport at 3 AM: no one to meet us. We try to sleep on the benches till our car rental agency opens at 7 AM. Not possible – security wakes us every 15 minutes. – When we get back to Canada we try to contact the airline to at least get an apology for a 29-hours sleepless journey to Europe – no answers to our mail inquiries, when we call the airline and demand to speak to whomever is in charge we are being put on hold – no one comes back to answer. That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start.

(snip) Why would the poster of this post anonymously if they wanted anyone to take any notice, I wonder? — Michael Forrest

Response:

No sure Michael, but interested to notice the posting host is psi.net who I have a daily battle against spamming me. My wife flied Canada 3000 and found them good. Trying 154.5.66 at ARIN Performance Systems International (NET-PSINET-B2-5)    165 Jordan Road    Troy, NY 12180    Netname: PSINET-B2-5    Netnumber: 154.5.0.0    Domain System inverse mapping provided by:    NS.PSI.NET   192.33.4.10    NS2.PSI.NET   38.8.50.2 — Andrew Taylor. MSN-MHM (UK Member Services) Expedia Europe/Africa Senior Assistant http://expedia.msn.com      Crumplehorn Inn – Polperro http://www.crumplehorn-inn.co.uk          A nice place to stay ~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. (snip) Why would the poster of this post anonymously if they wanted anyone to take any notice, I wonder? — Michael Forrest

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip!

Response:

Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start.

This tale could be repeated by many travelers from many airlines.  Just bad luck. I have come to believe that Continental has a contractual arrangement to cancel any flight from Newark to Rochester when any member of my family is flying.  Doesn’t mean I won’t fly their planes to other places. My opinion of C3K – a bit austere but the value is good and the service comparable to any other domestic airline… like Continental for example. KeithC

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip!

Hmmm – an anonymous reply to an anonymous posting!!  Why do I smell a rat!! Barry

Response:

I agree, and I would rather have a pilot who says, ‘I’m not risking flying across the Atlantic on one engine’, rather than ‘we might make it OK’. — Andrew Taylor. MSN-MHM (UK Member Services) Expedia Europe/Africa Senior Assistant http://expedia.msn.com      Crumplehorn Inn – Polperro http://www.crumplehorn-inn.co.uk          A nice place to stay ~

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our flight to Europe was doomed from the start. This tale could be repeated by many travelers from many airlines.  Just bad luck. I have come to believe that Continental has a contractual arrangement to cancel any flight from Newark to Rochester when any member of my family is flying.  Doesn’t mean I won’t fly their planes to other places. My opinion of C3K – a bit austere but the value is good and the service comparable to any other domestic airline… like Continental for example. KeithC

Response:

Over 10 years ago I flew Canada 3000 to Amsterdam and returned to Toronto from Paris. It was OK, but crowded. I guess the price you pay, the way you go. — Piotr Golabek http://www.pair.com/poland

Response:

What a horror story!  I’ve never heard of this airline, but I’ll think twice if a travel agent offers it.  I guess it’s better to stick with the large carriers – they have plenty of other planes that can be rerouted, and lots of staff.  I hope you have better luck on your next trip! Hmmm – an anonymous reply to an anonymous posting!!  Why do I smell a rat!!

What’s anonymous about the reply? — http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply?

‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.  I don’t trust anonymous.. especially when they just post an inflammatory post (OK this one was only just warm) and never post anything else even in reply to responses to a thread they begin. Trollers KeithC

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply? ‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.  

— http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/home.html

Response:

I agree, and I would rather have a pilot who says, ‘I’m not risking flying across the Atlantic on one engine’, rather than ‘we might make it OK’.

  Though I personally wouldn’t want a pilot who would say "But we’re perfectly safe flying within the continent on one engine…"  ;) -Ryan                                        http://www.lionking.org/~ryan/ "One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that,  before each tee-shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them –  Oh my God, what have I just said?" — (USTV commentator, Jonny Huntridge)

Response:

KeithC (Goons fan… have a gorilla.  No thanks, I’m trying to give them up)

Response:

What’s anonymous about the reply? ‘cos it wasn’t from an identifiable person.

True — but YOU do tell us your name Ron! Barry

Response:

That’s Canada 3000, we saved 200 $ (for both us) and lost 2 nights of sleep and 2 days of precious vacation time.

We flew with them to Munich last May.  Very crowded, tight seats, skimpy, poor meals but that’s the tradeoff to save $200.  The return stopped in Halifax, where we had to clear customs.  Halifax is not equipped to handle large planeloads, so this was a very slow, very poorly organized process.  Many passengers swore they would never fly Canada 3000 again.  We might, to save money, but only if it’s a direct flight.

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