Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip]  I’ve never known any retail outlet which sells more than one product to ALWAYS have the lowest price, especially for a product of which I do alot of the definition.  This is true whether it is Wallmart, Home Depot, or a clothing store.  "Shopping around" is a constant and the travel business is no different.  If there was one place to always go to always get the lowest price, everyone else would go out of business.  In travel, where schedule and availability are a big part of the business, the lowest price is gonna be found through a variety of means everytime one enters the market. Funny all these people who seem to think as normal a professionnal agency who is unable to meet or beat prices offered elsewhere… In that case we dont need them, do we ?

   It is normal that one agency isn’t always able to beat all prices from all competitors on all products simultaneously.

Response:

Funny all these people who seem to think as normal a professionnal agency who is unable to meet or beat prices offered elsewhere… In that case we dont need them, do we ?

No. You (and we) don’t. That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn’t it?     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

Funny all these people who seem to think as normal a professionnal agency who is unable to meet or beat prices offered elsewhere… In that case we dont need them, do we ?

I see. If there was one agency that could beat everyone else’s price, then there would be no need for more than one agency on earth, right? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Response:

First and foremost I can not see why your friend put in a bid of $499 + tax. I say that, because if the lowest price he could get elsewhere was was his bid amount. I would have at least bid 10% less or probably even more for this ticket. I also can’t see why can call this a scam. A scam is something where you are promised something and you don’t get that. No where did Priceline promise your friend that they would get him a ticket, as good, as what he could get else where. I found Priceline to never provide me fares, as good, as I can get elsewhere (via airline sites or Orbitz). If they are like Hotwire, they may offer great deals on last minute trips, but I have never tried them for that. Michael

Response:

First and foremost I can not see why your friend put in a bid of $499 + tax. I say that, because if the lowest price he could get elsewhere was was his bid amount. I would have at least bid 10% less or probably even more for this ticket.

Why would you bid 10 percent more at PL than you could get the ticket for on another site?

Response:

Funny all these people who seem to think as normal a professionnal agency who is unable to meet or beat prices offered elsewhere… In that case we dont need them, do we ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted. Priceline’s deals are based on deals Priceline makes with the airlines. They have a contract by which they can buy seats for $XX and offer them for sale.  If somebody offers more than they have agreed to pay for the ticket, they’ll sell it. They are not under any obligation to sell for less than they pay for the seat, because they haven’t bought the seat until they have a customer for it. That’s the problem with Priceline – sometimes you can score, my experience is usually there are no bargains. [snip]   Both of you have a funny idea about the travel business.  The first poster calls priceline a scam because they don’t always offer a price as low as others.  The second refers to variation between suppliers as a "problem".  I’ve never known any retail outlet which sells more than one product to ALWAYS have the lowest price, especially for a product of which I do alot of the definition.  This is true whether it is Wallmart, Home Depot, or a clothing store.  "Shopping around" is a constant and the travel business is no different.  If there was one place to always go to always get the lowest price, everyone else would go out of business.  In travel, where schedule and availability are a big part of the business, the lowest price is gonna be found through a variety of means everytime one enters the market.

Response:

Well its their job to get in the loop and not just sell anything to anyone – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : There are a lot of bidding strategies for Priceline out there….I get the : idea that your friend is traveling quite some time in the future.  If so, PL : doesn’t yet have bidding access to lower pricing than the price just paid. He is going next week. The fare is near the bottom of the page at http://www.japanair.com/e/promotions/superf.php . : In my experience, bidding more than 4-6 weeks before traveling is useless. : My best experience with PL was bidding 2-3 days before traveling….that can : bring real ‘fire sale’ pricing if the airline wants to fill seats. Well, looks line the airline has brought out "fire sale" pricing, but priceline is not in the loop

Response:

A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted. Relieved, he called JAL and booked the flights for $499 +tax.

Response:

A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted.

I don’t see how that leads to the conclusion that Priceline is a scam. They’re a travel agency. Sometimes they have the best price, other times they do not. They do not claim to always have the best price. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Response:

A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted. Relieved, he called JAL and booked the flights for $499 +tax.

Priceline is a scam because you found a ticket cheaper somewhere else, for this ONE trip?  Priceline isn’t required to be the cheapest for every itinerary.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t.  If you don’t like the price they accept, then don’t use Priceline.  My experience is that Priceline works better for hotel reservations. It is up to you to find the best choices for your trip. By the way,  ORD-NRT for $499 return is a great price.

Response:

There are a lot of bidding strategies for Priceline out there….I get the idea that your friend is traveling quite some time in the future.  If so, PL doesn’t yet have bidding access to lower pricing than the price just paid. In my experience, bidding more than 4-6 weeks before traveling is useless. My best experience with PL was bidding 2-3 days before traveling….that can bring real ‘fire sale’ pricing if the airline wants to fill seats.

Response:

Miguel and Blake : OK, maybe scam is a strong word, but what am I to think of a major travel agency whose quote is 40% above what is freely offered to anybody on an airline’s site? See http://www.japanair.com/e/promotions/superf.php and navigate to the bottom. : By the way,  ORD-NRT for $499 return is a great price. I agree, although once I got $349 +tax. Was never able to repeat that, but what a memory. That too was JAL.

Response:

: There are a lot of bidding strategies for Priceline out there….I get the : idea that your friend is traveling quite some time in the future.  If so, PL : doesn’t yet have bidding access to lower pricing than the price just paid. He is going next week. The fare is near the bottom of the page at http://www.japanair.com/e/promotions/superf.php . : In my experience, bidding more than 4-6 weeks before traveling is useless. : My best experience with PL was bidding 2-3 days before traveling….that can : bring real ‘fire sale’ pricing if the airline wants to fill seats. Well, looks line the airline has brought out "fire sale" pricing, but priceline is not in the loop

Response:

I’ve always found them pretty good for hotels. I put in what seems to me to be an overly hopeful price, and someone always seems to go for it. I’ve saved massive amounts over the years, although it got harder when they stopped taking foreign credit cards. ant

Response:

: I’ve always found them pretty good for hotels. I put in what seems to me to : be an overly hopeful price, and someone always seems to go for it. I’ve : saved massive amounts over the years, although it got harder when they : stopped taking foreign credit cards. Seems reasonable as there are many, many more hotels than airlines in the competitive arena.

Response:

OK, maybe scam is a strong word, but what am I to think of a major travel agency whose quote is 40% above what is freely offered to anybody on an airline’s site?

The airlines are always having specials that are only offered directly through their web sites. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Response:

: The airlines are always having specials that are only offered directly : through their web sites. Agreed, although this is not an internet only fare, you can book by phone, and also get it at Travelocity. The following agency doesn’t seem to know about 499 JAL fare, but they have a $529, which is a softer blow than $700: http://www.jtbusa.com/enhome/s-chi1.asp . My friend was quite excited about $469 AA mentioned on this page (as of today, I am sure the page changes), but it was all sold out. To be fair to to Priceline, maybe they didn’t have the 499 fare but would have accepted a higher offer like 529. We can never know. And their business model is based on us not knowing.

Response:

To be fair to to Priceline, maybe they didn’t have the 499 fare but would have accepted a higher offer like 529. We can never know. And their business model is based on us not knowing.

That’s true. But also their fares may come from a different pool than many other agencies’; they claim to have negotiated special deals. So that probably means they can get tickets for a low cost as compared to regular fares but may not help them when it comes to special fare sales. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Response:

A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted.

Priceline’s deals are based on deals Priceline makes with the airlines. They have a contract by which they can buy seats for $XX and offer them for sale.  If somebody offers more than they have agreed to pay for the ticket, they’ll sell it. They are not under any obligation to sell for less than they pay for the seat, because they haven’t bought the seat until they have a customer for it. That’s the problem with Priceline – sometimes you can score, my experience is usually there are no bargains. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Relieved, he called JAL and booked the flights for $499 +tax.

Response:

A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted. Relieved, he called JAL and booked the flights for $499 +tax.

That makes it a scam? How? In what way did they rip him off or cost him money apart from his time? So for this one trip they didn’t have the best price. Get real. A scam would have taken his money and stuffed up the booking. I can’t use priceline.com any more because they discovered I wasn’t American. But when I did in 2003 (properly trained via biddingfortravel.com) for hotel bookings, they were bloody brilliant. My average cost for 2 1/2*-4* (apart from NYC, DC, and SF) across the USA over a month was US$35 per night. In those other cities, Times Square Millennium $111, Capitol Hilton $72, Sheraton Fisherman’s Wharf $60. And also Renaissance and Marriotts in Vienna, Munich and Brussels all under 60 euros. My only regret is that they eventually discovered that NSW Australia wasn’t in Alaska. If I’m lucky they’ll read this and let me re-join. I suspect I’ll see some avian porcines before that happens unfortunately. Cheers, Alan, Australia

Response:

I’ve always found them pretty good for hotels. I put in what seems to me to be an overly hopeful price, and someone always seems to go for it. I’ve saved massive amounts over the years, although it got harder when they stopped taking foreign credit cards. ant

Where are you? What did you do to overcome the problem? I’d appreciate advice direct if you don’t want to post it. loral at optusnet dot com dot au Cheers, Alan, Australia

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A friend just tried Priceline for ORD-NRT ticket. Having done extensive research he knew the lowest price on his dates was JAL ($499, +tax). Just for the heck of it, he tried priceline. They showed a JAL price of "from $704 + tax". He made an offer of 499 plus tax, just for fun, aware and nervous that his experiment could cause him to end up with a bad connection. After a lot of blinking dots, priceline said his offer wasn’t accepted. Priceline’s deals are based on deals Priceline makes with the airlines. They have a contract by which they can buy seats for $XX and offer them for sale.  If somebody offers more than they have agreed to pay for the ticket, they’ll sell it. They are not under any obligation to sell for less than they pay for the seat, because they haven’t bought the seat until they have a customer for it. That’s the problem with Priceline – sometimes you can score, my experience is usually there are no bargains.

[snip]    Both of you have a funny idea about the travel business.  The first poster calls priceline a scam because they don’t always offer a price as low as others.  The second refers to variation between suppliers as a "problem".  I’ve never known any retail outlet which sells more than one product to ALWAYS have the lowest price, especially for a product of which I do alot of the definition.  This is true whether it is Wallmart, Home Depot, or a clothing store.  "Shopping around" is a constant and the travel business is no different.  If there was one place to always go to always get the lowest price, everyone else would go out of business.  In travel, where schedule and availability are a big part of the business, the lowest price is gonna be found through a variety of means everytime one enters the market.

Response:

I’ve always found them pretty good for hotels. I put in what seems to me to be an overly hopeful price, and someone always seems to go for it. I’ve saved massive amounts over the years, although it got harder when they stopped taking foreign credit cards. ant Where are you? What did you do to overcome the problem? I’d appreciate advice direct if you don’t want to post it. loral at optusnet dot com dot au

well, for half the year, my american bank accounts have an american address! I toyed, in my last port of call, with leaving the PO box current, and having them forward my mail, mainly for things like Priceline and other purchases where the addy box stops at "zip code". Next year I might try it. It certainly is annoying, maybe one day these people will work out that the world doesn’t stop where America does. ant

Response:

Question:

Anybody have a recommendation for a good air ticket deal from New York to Frankfurt for June/July time frame?

Response:

Anybody have a recommendation for a good air ticket deal from New York to Frankfurt for June/July time frame?

Things to consider: 1.    One-way or round-trip? 2.    Do you want a direct flight, or are you happy to transit either at another US airport (Washington DC comes to mind) or at a European hub (for example, London, Paris, Amsterdam…) ? 3.    Which NY airports can you use?  If LGA, JFK and EWR are all open to you, then you increase your chances of getting a lower fare. 4.    How old are you?  If you’re under 26, or a full-time student, you may get cheaper fares from your student/youth travel agency. 5.    How many people are travelling?  There are sometimes deals when 2 or more are travelling out and back on same flights As a starting point, I’d check the following: www.travelocity.com www.expedia.com www.orbitz.com www.qixo.com www.flights.com and see what you can find.  Travelocity has a good function where if you are flexible on dates you can throw up a list of all fares and then check availability on the ones that interest you.  Using this function, I found a fare on Singapore Airlines, nonstop from JFK to FRA, for $646.50 including all taxes and fees (it’s important to bear in mind that these taxes and fees can add up to $100 to the total cost of a roundtrip fare) Peter

Response:

Question:

Hi, Me and 2 mates are planning to go to oz december this year/jan next. I was just wondering if anyone could suggest the cheapest most reliale way to get there, and possibly where to start once we are there. Cheers Tam

Response:

ermmmmmmm the cheapest and most reliable way to get there is probably by aeroplane. If you were to tell us where you live and which part of Australia you wanted to visit perhaps I might be able to be more helpful!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Me and 2 mates are planning to go to oz december this year/jan next. I was just wondering if anyone could suggest the cheapest most reliale way to get there, and possibly where to start once we are there. Cheers Tam

Response:

Im going from Glasgow and wanting to head to Sydney first Tam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ermmmmmmm the cheapest and most reliable way to get there is probably by aeroplane. If you were to tell us where you live and which part of Australia you wanted to visit perhaps I might be able to be more helpful! Hi, Me and 2 mates are planning to go to oz december this year/jan next. I was just wondering if anyone could suggest the cheapest most reliale way to get there, and possibly where to start once we are there. Cheers Tam

Response:

Ah ok.  Probably the best bet would be to get a cheap flight to London with someone like Easyjet or Ryanair, then go & find a cheap London/Sydney route. I paid

Question:

I’m hoping we can avoid a 600 message thread on how unfair and discriminatory this practice is!   It’s just shocking that the cruise lines are taking steps to maximize their profits…..   Cruise Lines Slash Prices As War Fears Scare Travelers In Stroke of Poor Timing, Ships Head Back to Europe; Travel Insurance Now Free By Evan Perez 01/29/2003 The Wall Street Journal Page D1 (Copyright (c) 2003, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.) IT’S NOT JUST the USS Harry S. Truman steaming around the Mediterranean these days. So are a surprising number of cruise ships. In a stroke of unfortunate timing, cruise companies have begun to put more ships into Europe after pulling back from the region following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Even trips to Turkey, which shares a border with Iraq , are inching back. Princess Cruises’ Mediterranean itineraries dropped Turkey last year in favor of Malta, but now has returned and is making stops in Istanbul and Ephesus. Not surprisingly, however, the prospect of a war in Iraq hasn’t been good for business. Rising geopolitical tensions combined with the weak economy and lingering concerns about the recent outbreak of nasty stomach viruses are forcing the industry to offer some remarkable deals. Eager to get indecisive travelers off the fence, Princess is offering 2-for-1 prices on 12-day Mediterranean cruises on board the Grand Princess and the Golden Princess from Barcelona, Spain, to Venice, with prices starting at $1,570 a person. The special deal follows a decision by Princess to add a fourth 2,600-passenger ship in Europe this summer. Virtually all cruises this summer still have room, says Dean Brown of P&O Princess Cruises. The discounts aren’t limited to the Mediterranean. Uniworld is offering free airfare from North America cities for tulip cruises in Holland and Belgium. For the truly skittish, the company is throwing in free travel-protection insurance, which lets passengers cancel for any reason and get a refund. The discounts underscore how tough it is for travel executives to forecast demand in the current jittery global environment. In the cruise industry, which must deploy its ships nearly a year in advance, it is particularly complicated. Just a few months ago, Royal Caribbean Cruises executives told Wall Street analysts that they wished they hadn’t taken so much capacity out of Europe, because demand was so strong, and promised to return in force. This year, the company has boosted its European capacity by 60%. By and large, cruise lines are faring better than others in the travel industry. Unlike most airlines, cruise companies remain profitable despite the initial drop in business following the terror attacks in 2001. Last year, cruise lines managed to coax their prices back up to about pre-Sept. 11, 2001, levels. But war worries are starting to take a toll. Carnival executives said last month that they had noticed bookings slowing, perhaps as a result of negative publicity from a spate of outbreaks of the stomach virus that sickened thousands of passengers in Alaska and the Caribbean last year. That problem has faded, so passengers’ reluctance to sail now may have more to do with Iraq and the economy. "The fear of the war is really keeping a lot of people home," says Sheila Hyman, a travel agent in San Bruno, Calif. In 1991, during the first Gulf War, travelers canceled sailings, and profits took a dive, albeit only briefly. (War can create other problems for the cruise industry. In 1982, Cunard Line’s Queen Elizabeth 2 was requisitioned by the U.K. government to ferry soldiers to the Falkland Islands during a brief conflict with Argentina.) But other destinations also appear to be suffering from prewar jitters, even if they are in presumably safe zones. Indeed, four weeks into the cruise industry’s most important season — the January-to-March stretch when as much as 35% of bookings are made — not even a recent cold snap in North America is making the phones ring off the hook at the companies’ reservation centers. The result: Bargains can be found even on popular Caribbean and Alaska itineraries, particularly for travelers who have somewhat flexible travel dates. Celebrity Cruises, for instance, is offering ocean-view staterooms on seven-night cruises in the Caribbean from $700 a person, double occupancy, in February and March. Travel agents say that is half the usual price. Holland America Line was running a sale this week on seven-night Alaska cruises from Vancouver, British Columbia, with some going for $799. One clue to the discounts can be found in what the industry calls "lead-in" prices, the deals listed in Sunday travel sections to entice travelers to pony up. Currently, Carnival Cruise Lines is advertising $499 a person for seven-day Caribbean cruises. In years past, prices would have been closer to $600. Eager to boost business, cruise lines are taking other steps to woo travelers world-wide. Norwegian Cruise Line, a Star Cruises unit, is promoting its "homeland ports" — which include Charleston and Philadelphia — to vacationers who are worried about war. In fact, across the U.S., one industry strategy is to deploy more ships from "secondary" markets like Baltimore and New Orleans. Goal: Make them more accessible to more people by docking the ships closer to where people live, so they don’t have to get on a plane first. Companies are also boosting capacity in big markets like New York City: Carnival will sail an unprecedented 50 departures from the Big Apple this year. Carnival is also peddling a "fun finance plan," which is basically a loan where travelers can pay for a cruise with monthly payments instead of all at once. But Europe may be a source of most bargains, chiefly because of war fears. That baffles some executives. "It’s a lack of understanding of geography. People think [ Iraq ] is just down the street," says Patrick Clark of Uniworld — the company offering free travel insurance on its Holland tulip trips. Still, Mr. Clark says, the reality is that many clients are spooked by the prospect of war and worry about losing their deposits if they have to cancel their cruises. "It’s a big investment for people, so we decided to do something to alleviate that fear." —                Finding the  Cruise  Bargains    Cruise  lines are beefing up their European presence just as global tensions and economic worries are rising. Some deals and resources:    CRUISE /PRICE: Princess Grand, 12 days, two-for-one sale, starting at $2,000; cabins available through summer   PARTIAL ITINERARY: Barcelona; Monte Carlo; Athens, Greece; Ephesus and Istanbul, Turkey; Venice, Italy   COMMENT: Princess’s P&O brand recently pulled a ship out of Trinidad and Tobago on terrorism fears, but it’s full speed ahead this summer in Turkey, with stops in Istanbul and Ephesus (which the line had abandoned last year on similar fears).    CRUISE /PRICE: Royal Caribbean Brilliance of the Seas, 12 days, from $1,699; available in July   PARTIAL ITINERARY: Livorno, Italy; Dubrovnik, Croatia; Corfu, Greece; Civitavecchia/Rome, Italy   COMMENT: Royal, which also pulled back from Turkey, is tiptoeing back with seven stops in Ephesus this summer. Or, go rock-climbing right on the ship.    CRUISE /PRICE: Uniworld, River Empress, tulip time in Holland, seven or nine nights, $1,598; March through May   PARTIAL ITINERARY: Amsterdam, Volendam, Kinderdijk (think windmills) and The Hague; Antwerp   COMMENT: There’s little chance of Scuds falling on the windmills of Holland, but Uniworld is offering free airfare from North American cities and (free travel insurance).   Where to look for  cruise  guidance:   — iCruise.com: Search by  cruise  destination, dates, and price to find bargains. For the truly frugal, see what you can get for $122 in March in the Caribbean.   — CruiseCritic.com: You can browse advertised  cruise  prices, as well as  cruise  gossip in the message boards — sometimes from hard-core  cruise  regulars who give their unvarnished reviews, and sign their names with a list of cruises on which they’ve sailed.

Response:

Shouldn’t be a problem, there were only a half dozen replies when the same story was posted here a few days ago.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m hoping we can avoid a 600 message thread on how unfair and discriminatory this practice is!   It’s just shocking that the cruise lines are taking steps to maximize their profits…..  

Response:

I’m hoping we can avoid a 600 message thread on how unfair and discriminatory this practice is!   It’s just shocking that the cruise lines are taking steps to maximize their profits…..   Cruise Lines Slash Prices As War Fears Scare Travelers In Stroke of Poor Timing, Ships Head Back to Europe; Travel Insurance Now Free By Evan Perez 01/29/2003 The Wall Street Journal Page D1 (Copyright (c) 2003, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.) IT’S NOT JUST the USS Harry S. Truman steaming around the Mediterranean these days. So are a surprising number of cruise ships. In a stroke of unfortunate timing, cruise companies have begun to put more ships into Europe after pulling back from the region following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Even trips to Turkey, which shares a border with Iraq , are inching back. Princess Cruises’ Mediterranean itineraries dropped Turkey last year in favor of Malta, but now has returned and is making stops in Istanbul and Ephesus. Not surprisingly, however, the prospect of a war in Iraq hasn’t been good for business. Rising geopolitical tensions combined with the weak economy and lingering concerns about the recent outbreak of nasty stomach viruses are forcing the industry to offer some remarkable deals. Eager to get indecisive travelers off the fence, Princess is offering 2-for-1 prices on 12-day Mediterranean cruises on board the Grand Princess and the Golden Princess from Barcelona, Spain, to Venice, with prices starting at $1,570 a person. The special deal follows a decision by Princess to add a fourth 2,600-passenger ship in Europe this summer. Virtually all cruises this summer still have room, says Dean Brown of P&O Princess Cruises. The discounts aren’t limited to the Mediterranean. Uniworld is offering free airfare from North America cities for tulip cruises in Holland and Belgium. For the truly skittish, the company is throwing in free travel-protection insurance, which lets passengers cancel for any reason and get a refund. The discounts underscore how tough it is for travel executives to forecast demand in the current jittery global environment. In the cruise industry, which must deploy its ships nearly a year in advance, it is particularly complicated. Just a few months ago, Royal Caribbean Cruises executives told Wall Street analysts that they wished they hadn’t taken so much capacity out of Europe, because demand was so strong, and promised to return in force. This year, the company has boosted its European capacity by 60%. By and large, cruise lines are faring better than others in the travel industry. Unlike most airlines, cruise companies remain profitable despite the initial drop in business following the terror attacks in 2001. Last year, cruise lines managed to coax their prices back up to about pre-Sept. 11, 2001, levels. But war worries are starting to take a toll. Carnival executives said last month that they had noticed bookings slowing, perhaps as a result of negative publicity from a spate of outbreaks of the stomach virus that sickened thousands of passengers in Alaska and the Caribbean last year. That problem has faded, so passengers’ reluctance to sail now may have more to do with Iraq and the economy. "The fear of the war is really keeping a lot of people home," says Sheila Hyman, a travel agent in San Bruno, Calif. In 1991, during the first Gulf War, travelers canceled sailings, and profits took a dive, albeit only briefly. (War can create other problems for the cruise industry. In 1982, Cunard Line’s Queen Elizabeth 2 was requisitioned by the U.K. government to ferry soldiers to the Falkland Islands during a brief conflict with Argentina.) But other destinations also appear to be suffering from prewar jitters, even if they are in presumably safe zones. Indeed, four weeks into the cruise industry’s most important season — the January-to-March stretch when as much as 35% of bookings are made — not even a recent cold snap in North America is making the phones ring off the hook at the companies’ reservation centers. The result: Bargains can be found even on popular Caribbean and Alaska itineraries, particularly for travelers who have somewhat flexible travel dates. Celebrity Cruises, for instance, is offering ocean-view staterooms on seven-night cruises in the Caribbean from $700 a person, double occupancy, in February and March. Travel agents say that is half the usual price. Holland America Line was running a sale this week on seven-night Alaska cruises from Vancouver, British Columbia, with some going for $799. One clue to the discounts can be found in what the industry calls "lead-in" prices, the deals listed in Sunday travel sections to entice travelers to pony up. Currently, Carnival Cruise Lines is advertising $499 a person for seven-day Caribbean cruises. In years past, prices would have been closer to $600. Eager to boost business, cruise lines are taking other steps to woo travelers world-wide. Norwegian Cruise Line, a Star Cruises unit, is promoting its "homeland ports" — which include Charleston and Philadelphia — to vacationers who are worried about war. In fact, across the U.S., one industry strategy is to deploy more ships from "secondary" markets like Baltimore and New Orleans. Goal: Make them more accessible to more people by docking the ships closer to where people live, so they don’t have to get on a plane first. Companies are also boosting capacity in big markets like New York City: Carnival will sail an unprecedented 50 departures from the Big Apple this year. Carnival is also peddling a "fun finance plan," which is basically a loan where travelers can pay for a cruise with monthly payments instead of all at once. But Europe may be a source of most bargains, chiefly because of war fears. That baffles some executives. "It’s a lack of understanding of geography. People think [ Iraq ] is just down the street," says Patrick Clark of Uniworld — the company offering free travel insurance on its Holland tulip trips. Still, Mr. Clark says, the reality is that many clients are spooked by the prospect of war and worry about losing their deposits if they have to cancel their cruises. "It’s a big investment for people, so we decided to do something to alleviate that fear." —                Finding the  Cruise  Bargains    Cruise  lines are beefing up their European presence just as global tensions and economic worries are rising. Some deals and resources:    CRUISE /PRICE: Princess Grand, 12 days, two-for-one sale, starting at $2,000; cabins available through summer   PARTIAL ITINERARY: Barcelona; Monte Carlo; Athens, Greece; Ephesus and Istanbul, Turkey; Venice, Italy   COMMENT: Princess’s P&O brand recently pulled a ship out of Trinidad and Tobago on terrorism fears, but it’s full speed ahead this summer in Turkey, with stops in Istanbul and Ephesus (which the line had abandoned last year on similar fears).    CRUISE /PRICE: Royal Caribbean Brilliance of the Seas, 12 days, from $1,699; available in July   PARTIAL ITINERARY: Livorno, Italy; Dubrovnik, Croatia; Corfu, Greece; Civitavecchia/Rome, Italy   COMMENT: Royal, which also pulled back from Turkey, is tiptoeing back with seven stops in Ephesus this summer. Or, go rock-climbing right on the ship.    CRUISE /PRICE: Uniworld, River Empress, tulip time in Holland, seven or nine nights, $1,598; March through May   PARTIAL ITINERARY: Amsterdam, Volendam, Kinderdijk (think windmills) and The Hague; Antwerp   COMMENT: There’s little chance of Scuds falling on the windmills of Holland, but Uniworld is offering free airfare from North American cities and (free travel insurance).   Where to look for  cruise  guidance:   — iCruise.com: Search by  cruise  destination, dates, and price to find bargains. For the truly frugal, see what you can get for $122 in March in the Caribbean.   — CruiseCritic.com: You can browse advertised  cruise  prices, as well as  cruise  gossip in the message boards — sometimes from hard-core  cruise  regulars who give their unvarnished reviews, and sign their names with a list of cruises on which they’ve sailed.

Response:

Shouldn’t be a problem, there were only a half dozen replies when the same story was posted here a few days ago.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m hoping we can avoid a 600 message thread on how unfair and discriminatory this practice is!   It’s just shocking that the cruise lines are taking steps to maximize their profits…..  

Response:

Question:

I called AT&T about rates using their First Class card from the Post Office. From France to the U.S. six minutes from the card total get deducted for every minute you speak. At 15 cents/minute ($15 for a 100 minute card), that comes to 90 cents/minute. Lousy.

We use an ATT calling card from Sam’s Club.  The basic unit (domestic minute) rate is 3.4 cents/minute.  To call the US from France the rate is currently 7 units per minute or approx. 24 cents/minute.  The multiple varies from country to country.  We have used this card to call the US from France, Italy, Netherlands and Spain without any problems.  The ATT access numbers in all these countries was toll-free from public phones we used.  We also have recharged the card with no difficulty.  You can call ATT at 888-854-6740 to find out the multiple for each country of origination for the call.  The cost difference depends on what the basic unit cost is on your ATT card.  Some ATT cards have basic unit costs much higher than 3.4 cents as you can see from Kim Sternberg’s post above. Of course there may be better deals available in some countries but we have always found this card to be relatively inexpensive and easy to use. GG

Response:

I bought a $20 card from here that charges 8 cents/minute from France with no connection charge: http://www.1st4phonecards.com

Response:

I’ve researched it.  You’re full of shit.  So now prove me wrong.

Man, with an attitude like yours, you’ve got a long way to go before you can even begin to prove yourself right to anybody. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

I have a card called Global Call (www.global-call.net).  I don’t know if they have the best rate from Europe.  But the best thing is that you can add funds to it as you go.  Be careful using a phone card from a pay phone.  The pay phone may have a very high charge for using a phone card.

Some cards use toll-free or designated Home Country Direct numbers. These should be cheap or free from pay phones. As for the others, it’s anybody’s guess. Post the access number for a card and I’m sure someone in the country in question can figure out what sort of number it is. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Response:

I have a card called Global Call (www.global-call.net).  I don’t know if they have the best rate from Europe.  But the best thing is that you can add funds to it as you go.  Be careful using a phone card from a pay phone.  The pay phone may have a very high charge for using a phone card.

Global call has toll free numbers from each country where it is usable.  All the numbers are listed on their web site.  Like I said, I don’t know about their rates from each country, but the good thing about this card is that you can add funds to your account anytime you want to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some cards use toll-free or designated Home Country Direct numbers. These should be cheap or free from pay phones. As for the others, it’s anybody’s guess. Post the access number for a card and I’m sure someone in the country in question can figure out what sort of number it is. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Response:

Some cards use toll-free or designated Home Country Direct numbers. These should be cheap or free from pay phones. As for the others, it’s anybody’s guess.

FWIW, last time I tried to use my UK calling card’s toll free number in Amsterdam, it was blocked from payphones and from my mobile (on any of the roaming partners I logged onto there.) I don’t know if they block Dutch-issued cards similarly, but it was very annoying, and other people I know using similar cards have reported such problems. David — David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Response:

FWIW, last time I tried to use my UK calling card’s toll free number in Amsterdam, it was blocked from payphones and from my mobile (on any of the roaming partners I logged onto there.) I don’t know if they block Dutch-issued cards similarly, but it was very annoying, and other people I know using similar cards have reported such problems.

It hadn’t occurred to me before that cards might be blocked for mobile numbers. I have a prepaid Bouygues mobile phone (using Carte Nomad), and it costs 2.3 Euros/minute to call the USA from France.  Is there a calling card (either a French one from a tabac or a US card)  that I can use with this which would cost less?  Or a callback service? I may end up taking my worldphone and using Voicestream int’l roaming for 99 cents/minute.  I was just hoping to avoid taking two phones or having to swap SIMs between international and local French calls. I’m learning, but international phone issues are still confusing to me!  :) Darby The reply address shown is for an account I don’t check. To send email, please send it to dar_b_jo AT yahoo DOT com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October.   We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Best we’ve found is to use "1st Class" phone cards you can get at US post offices. Better rates than ATT, Sprint, MCI cards, and you can use it with ATT. Can also add money to them with a credit card and a call. In Europe, dial the ATT access numbers for the country you’re in.

Why dont you give some examples of the rates (already)… thats the important info! jay Wed, Sep 25, 2002 A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

We’ve been using a calling card from https://www.acculinq.com for over a year now.  The rates are pretty decent (calling US from Germany 16 cents per minute, from France 17 cents)and the billing is done online (billed to your credit card)which is convenient while travelling. We had some problems getting thru earlier this year (the lines were busy), but if you’re not on a tight schedule and take your time to redial, you will eventually get thru. Enjoy Europe, it will change your perspective on life… Beata

Response:

The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October. We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.

This is the worst telephone thread we’ve ever had!  People are recommending the usurous using cards and services purchased before you go in the U.S.!!! Prices are better if you pick up calling card thingies in Europe.  Even the standard local-country telecom cards that you purchase at tobacconists or other kiosk-like places are a better deal (o.k. rates, no access charges). In some countries if you keep your eye open for billboards or shop windows you can get international calling cards, or stop into a storefront where international calling is cheap, that are really cheap.  My parents in Germany pay about 4 cents a minute to call the U.S. from their home phone–and the cards that you pick up at corner stores can often be had for only a few cents a minute more.  Just keep your eyes open, or ask around.

Response:

Global call has toll free numbers from each country where it is usable. All the numbers are listed on their web site.

I have an IDT Global Card.  I use it for all my calls from the STATES to Europe.  FROM Europe I NEVER use it.

Response:

When I was in Rome last year, I picked up a pre-paid phone card from the American Express office.  If you’re flying into Heathrow, there’s an American Express office in terminals 3 and 4.  If I recall, the rate was around 20 cents a minute to call the U.S.   Not too bad. There are many places you can pick up these prepaid cards in Europe now. I’d look at airport kiosks and newsstands. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October. We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Thanks in advance for any guidance. Jeff

Response:

It hadn’t occurred to me before that cards might be blocked for mobile numbers.

Just to clarify- cards will rarely block calls _to_ mobile numbers (or from them, for that matter.) They will probably charge more for them, though. However, telecom providers may block calls to toll-free numbers etc. which are used for calling cards. I have a prepaid Bouygues mobile phone (using Carte Nomad), and it costs 2.3 Euros/minute to call the USA from France.  

Ouch- Orange prepaid in the UK is about 25 euro cents a minute from UK to US. I’m on Orange contract and pay 1.5 cents a minute off-peak, about 5 cents peak- the latter via calling card. Is there a calling card (either a French one from a tabac or a US card)  that I can use with this which would cost less?  Or a callback service?

Callback service is cheap- about 12 cents a minute if you use a provider such as boomerang. (www.americom.com/boomerang) They can call you on your mobile number- you won’t pay any extra if you’re in France. (Roaming rates will apply from your mobile provider if you receive trhe call while outside France.) David — David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Response:

You’ve mentioned this card several times, but you’ve always neglected to mention the rates.  If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information.

Sorry, do your own research. We used it from the Carribean and found it to be the cheapest we could find. It goes by units, and those vary by country. Your post sounds pretty confrontational ("If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information."), so I’ll just tell you that ATT will be able to tell you what the actual rates are if you call them. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Why dont you give some examples of the rates (already)… thats the important info!

Hi fig: varies by country, I’m afraid. ATT will let you know if you ask them about the 1st class card…we found it better than ATT or MCI or Sprint calling cards. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Why dont you give some examples of the rates (already)… thats the important info! Hi fig: varies by country, I’m afraid.

Sure, but how bout giving a single example;Country and rate ? There is No info on this card at the USPS site. jay Wed, Sep 25, 2002  ATT will let you know if you ask them about the 1st class card…we found it better than ATT or MCI or Sprint calling cards. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

Why dont you give some examples of the rates (already)… thats the important info! Hi fig: varies by country, I’m afraid. Sure, but how bout giving a single example;Country and rate ? There is No info on this card at the USPS site.

We used this card in the carribean and I don’t have one anymore to check. Best is to call ATT and ask about it, they told me how much it was by country (make sure you say 1st class card from USPS, not an ATT card…). In the US, it’s 10 cents a minute from anywhere to anywhere, but don’t remember hard figures outside the US, just that it was the best rate we found in two days of looking… A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Try buying a Global phonecard from www.1stphonecards.com It was recommended by Consumer Reports Travel Newsletter.  I just returned from Europe and purchase a card over the Internet.  They had really good rates. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October.  We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Thanks in advance for any guidance. Jeff

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ve mentioned this card several times, but you’ve always neglected to mention the rates.  If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information. Sorry, do your own research. We used it from the Carribean and found it to be the cheapest we could find. It goes by units, and those vary by country. Your post sounds pretty confrontational ("If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information."), so I’ll just tell you that ATT will be able to tell you what the actual rates are if you call them.

I’ve researched it.  You’re full of shit.  So now prove me wrong.

Response:

I called AT&T about rates using their First Class card from the Post Office. From France to the U.S. six minutes from the card total get deducted for every minute you speak. At 15 cents/minute ($15 for a 100 minute card), that comes to 90 cents/minute. Lousy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October. We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Best we’ve found is to use "1st Class" phone cards you can get at US post offices. Better rates than ATT, Sprint, MCI cards, and you can use it with ATT. Can also add money to them with a credit card and a call. In Europe, dial the ATT access numbers for the country you’re in.

You’ve mentioned this card several times, but you’ve always neglected to mention the rates.  If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information. And have you actually tried to recharge the card from within Europe?

Response:

I have a card called Global Call (www.global-call.net).  I don’t know if they have the best rate from Europe.  But the best thing is that you can add funds to it as you go.  Be careful using a phone card from a pay phone.  The pay phone may have a very high charge for using a phone card. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October. We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Thanks in advance for any guidance. Jeff

Response:

The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October.  We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Thanks in advance for any guidance. Jeff

Response:

: The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in : October.  We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I : have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super : high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My : wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty : much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on : the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super   : high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the : absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. I just got back from Europe, and I used my Sprint Pre-paid calling card to call the US.  The per-minute cost seemed quite high to me (50 cents/min from Franc and The Netherlands) – I remember paying less two years ago, though this card has no per-call service charges… I heard mention of some much cheaper phone cards available in Europe, but I certainly didn’t see any advertised to tourists.  In France, I was told that the post office (La Poste) sells a cheaper card (how cheap?) but I wasn’t sure it would work in other countries, nor was I willing to listen to prerecorded instructions in French for using the card.  So I didn’t bother. I’d look at phone cards from the US before you leave but find out the per-minute cost from each country you will visit before buying the card.  That is, look at Sprint, MCI, AT&T, etc. Andrew — —- Portland, Oregon, USA <—- —- http://www.bizave.com/photos/  <—- Andrew’s Photography —- http://www.moviepundit.com/    <—- Andrew’s Movie Website To respond by EMAIL, please DO NOT hit "reply".  Email address scrambled for security.  Instead, please visit the web page:

Response:

The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October.  We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals.

Best we’ve found is to use "1st Class" phone cards you can get at US post offices. Better rates than ATT, Sprint, MCI cards, and you can use it with ATT. Can also add money to them with a credit card and a call. In Europe, dial the ATT access numbers for the country you’re in. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October.  We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Thanks in advance for any guidance. Jeff

Response:

: The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in : October.  We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I : have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super : high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My : wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty : much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on : the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super   : high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the : absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. I just got back from Europe, and I used my Sprint Pre-paid calling card to call the US.  The per-minute cost seemed quite high to me (50 cents/min from Franc and The Netherlands) – I remember paying less two years ago, though this card has no per-call service charges… I heard mention of some much cheaper phone cards available in Europe, but I certainly didn’t see any advertised to tourists.  In France, I was told that the post office (La Poste) sells a cheaper card (how cheap?) but I wasn’t sure it would work in other countries, nor was I willing to listen to prerecorded instructions in French for using the card.  So I didn’t bother. I’d look at phone cards from the US before you leave but find out the per-minute cost from each country you will visit before buying the card.  That is, look at Sprint, MCI, AT&T, etc. Andrew — —- Portland, Oregon, USA <—- —- http://www.bizave.com/photos/  <—- Andrew’s Photography —- http://www.moviepundit.com/    <—- Andrew’s Movie Website To respond by EMAIL, please DO NOT hit "reply".  Email address scrambled for security.  Instead, please visit the web page:

Response:

The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October.  We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals.

Best we’ve found is to use "1st Class" phone cards you can get at US post offices. Better rates than ATT, Sprint, MCI cards, and you can use it with ATT. Can also add money to them with a credit card and a call. In Europe, dial the ATT access numbers for the country you’re in. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

I have a card called Global Call (www.global-call.net).  I don’t know if they have the best rate from Europe.  But the best thing is that you can add funds to it as you go.  Be careful using a phone card from a pay phone.  The pay phone may have a very high charge for using a phone card. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October. We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Thanks in advance for any guidance. Jeff

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October. We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Best we’ve found is to use "1st Class" phone cards you can get at US post offices. Better rates than ATT, Sprint, MCI cards, and you can use it with ATT. Can also add money to them with a credit card and a call. In Europe, dial the ATT access numbers for the country you’re in.

You’ve mentioned this card several times, but you’ve always neglected to mention the rates.  If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information. And have you actually tried to recharge the card from within Europe?

Response:

I have a card called Global Call (www.global-call.net).  I don’t know if they have the best rate from Europe.  But the best thing is that you can add funds to it as you go.  Be careful using a phone card from a pay phone.  The pay phone may have a very high charge for using a phone card.

Some cards use toll-free or designated Home Country Direct numbers. These should be cheap or free from pay phones. As for the others, it’s anybody’s guess. Post the access number for a card and I’m sure someone in the country in question can figure out what sort of number it is. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Response:

I have a card called Global Call (www.global-call.net).  I don’t know if they have the best rate from Europe.  But the best thing is that you can add funds to it as you go.  Be careful using a phone card from a pay phone.  The pay phone may have a very high charge for using a phone card.

Global call has toll free numbers from each country where it is usable.  All the numbers are listed on their web site.  Like I said, I don’t know about their rates from each country, but the good thing about this card is that you can add funds to your account anytime you want to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some cards use toll-free or designated Home Country Direct numbers. These should be cheap or free from pay phones. As for the others, it’s anybody’s guess. Post the access number for a card and I’m sure someone in the country in question can figure out what sort of number it is. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu New mini photo-feature: Life in DC: http://travel.u.nu/dc/

Response:

Some cards use toll-free or designated Home Country Direct numbers. These should be cheap or free from pay phones. As for the others, it’s anybody’s guess.

FWIW, last time I tried to use my UK calling card’s toll free number in Amsterdam, it was blocked from payphones and from my mobile (on any of the roaming partners I logged onto there.) I don’t know if they block Dutch-issued cards similarly, but it was very annoying, and other people I know using similar cards have reported such problems. David — David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Response:

FWIW, last time I tried to use my UK calling card’s toll free number in Amsterdam, it was blocked from payphones and from my mobile (on any of the roaming partners I logged onto there.) I don’t know if they block Dutch-issued cards similarly, but it was very annoying, and other people I know using similar cards have reported such problems.

It hadn’t occurred to me before that cards might be blocked for mobile numbers. I have a prepaid Bouygues mobile phone (using Carte Nomad), and it costs 2.3 Euros/minute to call the USA from France.  Is there a calling card (either a French one from a tabac or a US card)  that I can use with this which would cost less?  Or a callback service? I may end up taking my worldphone and using Voicestream int’l roaming for 99 cents/minute.  I was just hoping to avoid taking two phones or having to swap SIMs between international and local French calls. I’m learning, but international phone issues are still confusing to me!  :) Darby The reply address shown is for an account I don’t check. To send email, please send it to dar_b_jo AT yahoo DOT com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October.   We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Best we’ve found is to use "1st Class" phone cards you can get at US post offices. Better rates than ATT, Sprint, MCI cards, and you can use it with ATT. Can also add money to them with a credit card and a call. In Europe, dial the ATT access numbers for the country you’re in.

Why dont you give some examples of the rates (already)… thats the important info! jay Wed, Sep 25, 2002 A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

We’ve been using a calling card from https://www.acculinq.com for over a year now.  The rates are pretty decent (calling US from Germany 16 cents per minute, from France 17 cents)and the billing is done online (billed to your credit card)which is convenient while travelling. We had some problems getting thru earlier this year (the lines were busy), but if you’re not on a tight schedule and take your time to redial, you will eventually get thru. Enjoy Europe, it will change your perspective on life… Beata

Response:

The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October. We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.

This is the worst telephone thread we’ve ever had!  People are recommending the usurous using cards and services purchased before you go in the U.S.!!! Prices are better if you pick up calling card thingies in Europe.  Even the standard local-country telecom cards that you purchase at tobacconists or other kiosk-like places are a better deal (o.k. rates, no access charges). In some countries if you keep your eye open for billboards or shop windows you can get international calling cards, or stop into a storefront where international calling is cheap, that are really cheap.  My parents in Germany pay about 4 cents a minute to call the U.S. from their home phone–and the cards that you pick up at corner stores can often be had for only a few cents a minute more.  Just keep your eyes open, or ask around.

Response:

Global call has toll free numbers from each country where it is usable. All the numbers are listed on their web site.

I have an IDT Global Card.  I use it for all my calls from the STATES to Europe.  FROM Europe I NEVER use it.

Response:

When I was in Rome last year, I picked up a pre-paid phone card from the American Express office.  If you’re flying into Heathrow, there’s an American Express office in terminals 3 and 4.  If I recall, the rate was around 20 cents a minute to call the U.S.   Not too bad. There are many places you can pick up these prepaid cards in Europe now. I’d look at airport kiosks and newsstands. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October. We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Thanks in advance for any guidance. Jeff

Response:

It hadn’t occurred to me before that cards might be blocked for mobile numbers.

Just to clarify- cards will rarely block calls _to_ mobile numbers (or from them, for that matter.) They will probably charge more for them, though. However, telecom providers may block calls to toll-free numbers etc. which are used for calling cards. I have a prepaid Bouygues mobile phone (using Carte Nomad), and it costs 2.3 Euros/minute to call the USA from France.  

Ouch- Orange prepaid in the UK is about 25 euro cents a minute from UK to US. I’m on Orange contract and pay 1.5 cents a minute off-peak, about 5 cents peak- the latter via calling card. Is there a calling card (either a French one from a tabac or a US card)  that I can use with this which would cost less?  Or a callback service?

Callback service is cheap- about 12 cents a minute if you use a provider such as boomerang. (www.americom.com/boomerang) They can call you on your mobile number- you won’t pay any extra if you’re in France. (Roaming rates will apply from your mobile provider if you receive trhe call while outside France.) David — David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Response:

You’ve mentioned this card several times, but you’ve always neglected to mention the rates.  If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information.

Sorry, do your own research. We used it from the Carribean and found it to be the cheapest we could find. It goes by units, and those vary by country. Your post sounds pretty confrontational ("If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information."), so I’ll just tell you that ATT will be able to tell you what the actual rates are if you call them. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Why dont you give some examples of the rates (already)… thats the important info!

Hi fig: varies by country, I’m afraid. ATT will let you know if you ask them about the 1st class card…we found it better than ATT or MCI or Sprint calling cards. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Why dont you give some examples of the rates (already)… thats the important info! Hi fig: varies by country, I’m afraid.

Sure, but how bout giving a single example;Country and rate ? There is No info on this card at the USPS site. jay Wed, Sep 25, 2002  ATT will let you know if you ask them about the 1st class card…we found it better than ATT or MCI or Sprint calling cards. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

Why dont you give some examples of the rates (already)… thats the important info! Hi fig: varies by country, I’m afraid. Sure, but how bout giving a single example;Country and rate ? There is No info on this card at the USPS site.

We used this card in the carribean and I don’t have one anymore to check. Best is to call ATT and ask about it, they told me how much it was by country (make sure you say 1st class card from USPS, not an ATT card…). In the US, it’s 10 cents a minute from anywhere to anywhere, but don’t remember hard figures outside the US, just that it was the best rate we found in two days of looking… A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Try buying a Global phonecard from www.1stphonecards.com It was recommended by Consumer Reports Travel Newsletter.  I just returned from Europe and purchase a card over the Internet.  They had really good rates. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The wife and I will be traveling to Europe for the first time in October.  We will be visiting London, Paris, Rome, and Amsterdam.  I have read some of the horror stories on the group regarding super high long distance rates for calling back to the US from Europe.  My wife’s father is ill and she is going to want to check back pretty much every day.  Was there a consensus reached among the group on the best way to make these calls to avoid incurring super high per minute costs?  I’m not cheap enough to worry about getting the absolute best price, just want to avoid the $5 a minute deals. Thanks in advance for any guidance. Jeff

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’ve mentioned this card several times, but you’ve always neglected to mention the rates.  If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information. Sorry, do your own research. We used it from the Carribean and found it to be the cheapest we could find. It goes by units, and those vary by country. Your post sounds pretty confrontational ("If you claim that it has better rates, then you should be able to back it up with some actual numbers to prove it, or at least provide a website link with rate information."), so I’ll just tell you that ATT will be able to tell you what the actual rates are if you call them.

I’ve researched it.  You’re full of shit.  So now prove me wrong.

Response:

I called AT&T about rates using their First Class card from the Post Office. From France to the U.S. six minutes from the card total get deducted for every minute you speak. At 15 cents/minute ($15 for a 100 minute card), that comes to 90 cents/minute. Lousy.

Response:

I called AT&T about rates using their First Class card from the Post Office. From France to the U.S. six minutes from the card total get deducted for every minute you speak. At 15 cents/minute ($15 for a 100 minute card), that comes to 90 cents/minute. Lousy.

We use an ATT calling card from Sam’s Club.  The basic unit (domestic minute) rate is 3.4 cents/minute.  To call the US from France the rate is currently 7 units per minute or approx. 24 cents/minute.  The multiple varies from country to country.  We have used this card to call the US from France, Italy, Netherlands and Spain without any problems.  The ATT access numbers in all these countries was toll-free from public phones we used.  We also have recharged the card with no difficulty.  You can call ATT at 888-854-6740 to find out the multiple for each country of origination for the call.  The cost difference depends on what the basic unit cost is on your ATT card.  Some ATT cards have basic unit costs much higher than 3.4 cents as you can see from Kim Sternberg’s post above. Of course there may be better deals available in some countries but we have always found this card to be relatively inexpensive and easy to use. GG

Response:

I bought a $20 card from here that charges 8 cents/minute from France with no connection charge: http://www.1st4phonecards.com

Response:

I’ve researched it.  You’re full of shit.  So now prove me wrong.

Man, with an attitude like yours, you’ve got a long way to go before you can even begin to prove yourself right to anybody. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Question:

For a beginning traveler, I would suggest reading Europe Through The Back Door. Try getting it from your library.  Otherwise go to you local large bookstore and read it there.  Secondly, get a large comprehensive guidebook and a highlighter.  Start reading and highlight everthing that appeals to you.  From there, get a map and start planning a route.  You will have to make choices, you can’t see it all the first time–or second or third.  Have fun planning.  Ask here for more specific questions.  Use google to research on this newsgroup, areas you are interested in. Barbara in CT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Get Rick Steves Europe Through the Backdoor which is an excellent introduction to travel for first timers — You dn’t have to follow his itineraries — which are rather ’see everything in three weeks’ — but the general advise is excellent and you can use his suggested itineraries as a starting place for building your own travel

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe. I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Just do some research on the web, buy a travel guide, or both. Go to your favorite search engine and type in "travel Europe." I’m sure you’ll come up with tons of information, replace Europe with the name of a country or city and you’ll get stuff, too. A good first step would be to figure out how much time and money you have at your disposal for this trip. Richard

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe. I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Two guidebooks that help you prioritize: Rick Steves’ Europe Through the Back Door and the Michelin guides. It may not be that their priorities are yours, but it’s a place to start. I like to look at picture books to find places that appeal to me. The more research you do ahead of time the more rewarding your trip. Marianne

Response:

Read Bill Bryson’s account of his travel round Europe. Its the most accurate IMO… Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Get Rick Steves Europe Through the Backdoor which is an excellent introduction to travel for first timers — You dn’t have to follow his itineraries — which are rather ’see everything in three weeks’ — but the general advise is excellent and you can use his suggested itineraries as a starting place for building your own travel

Response:

Bryson’s book:  "Neither Here Nor There" hilarious and informative – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Read Bill Bryson’s account of his travel round Europe. Its the most accurate IMO… Dave Get Rick Steves Europe Through the Backdoor which is an excellent introduction to travel for first timers — You dn’t have to follow his itineraries — which are rather ’see everything in three weeks’ — but the general advise is excellent and you can use his suggested itineraries as a starting place for building your own travel

Response:

The Eiffel Tower and Arc de Triomphe IMHO are a bit overrated but the = traffic at the Arc during rush hour is just crazy-a show in itself!=20

[snip] I don’t know what it means to say that these things are or may be overrated. Overrated based on what criterion? Or is it that they could be overrated in comparison to other great things in Paris? Best, Michael To reply by email, please take out the TRASH (so to speak). Personal messages only, please!

Response:

The Lonely Planet guides are also very good.

Beware of those Lonely Planet guides. I stayed in a hotel in London recommended by Lonely Planet guides. Up until then, even in Hostels, I had never seen graffiti on the walls, inside the room, complaining about the hotel that we were in.  Not everything is well researched or up to date, in any travel guide. But, of course, that’s also true about most any other guide. That’s not to say that you can’t find useful info, just read a lot of them to try and find items that are of interest to you. Good Luck

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!! Pick up a "Let’s Go"…"Lonely Planet"….."Rough Guide" and start reading

That’s a good starting point. Time Out also has a site on Paris and sites on several other European cities. Michelin’s site is also useful: www.viamichelin.com Get back to us when you have more specific questions. Many of us have been to Paris, and some subscribers live there. Best, Michael To reply by email, please take out the TRASH (so to speak). Personal messages only, please!

Response:

Thanks to all of you!! I can say to everyone who has responded to my post that you have all contributed a penny in my fountain of travels!   I really appreciate all your time!!

Response:

The Lonely Planet guides are also very good. One of the decisions you  will have to make is how you want to travel-train, rental car,etc. Once you have decided which cities you will be seeing and for how long, you can start researching train passes (Eurorail) and budget air fares. In some cases, flying between major cities is cheaper than train and saves time. Last week we flew from AMsterdam to Barcelona for 105 Euros per person. Check out Easyjet.com, Ryan Air and buzzaway.com. The earlier you book, the more cheap flights will be available. Buying point-to-point train tickets may save money over buying a Eurorail pass, depending on how much travelling you want to do over what period of time. Rick Steves site http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/home.htm offers some advice on calculating the cost of train travel. Some good deals on hotels can be found at Laterooms.com. If you are in Barcelona, go to the Park Guell and the Sagrada Familia, just two of the outstanding examples of architect Antoni Gaudi’s work. Paris is a blast-the Louvre is a must-plan on at least one full day (more if you have time). The Eiffel Tower and Arc de Triomphe IMHO are a bit overrated but the traffic at the Arc during rush hour is just crazy-a show in itself! Most striking thing about Paris apart from the architecture was the abundance of cafes, bakeries and restaurants. Every block seems to be lined with them. There is certainly no lack of good food in every price range. Definitely look at whatever churches you come across-they are usually a haven of coolness and calm in a busy city and offer some beautiful and inspiring artwork. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe. I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!! Two guidebooks that help you prioritize: Rick Steves’ Europe Through the Back Door and the Michelin guides. It may not be that their priorities are yours, but it’s a place to start. I like to look at picture books to find places that appeal to me. The more research you do ahead of time the more rewarding your trip. Marianne

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Pick up a "Let’s Go"…"Lonely Planet"….."Rough Guide" and start reading

Response:

Interesting places in Europe: http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=35 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=58 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=41 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=36 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=54 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=46 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=39 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=57 Here you can see good discount offers for travellers: http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=tt

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

This is a great place to get *specific* information about anywhere in Europe, but please do some research first.  How much time & money you have is a pretty basic starting point. Gordon

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

This is a great place to get *specific* information about anywhere in Europe, but please do some research first.  How much time & money you have is a pretty basic starting point. Gordon

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Pick up a "Let’s Go"…"Lonely Planet"….."Rough Guide" and start reading

Response:

Interesting places in Europe: http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=35 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=58 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=41 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=36 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=54 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=46 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=39 http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=art&artID=57 Here you can see good discount offers for travellers: http://en.tripstop.com/index.php3?page=tt

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!! Pick up a "Let’s Go"…"Lonely Planet"….."Rough Guide" and start reading

That’s a good starting point. Time Out also has a site on Paris and sites on several other European cities. Michelin’s site is also useful: www.viamichelin.com Get back to us when you have more specific questions. Many of us have been to Paris, and some subscribers live there. Best, Michael To reply by email, please take out the TRASH (so to speak). Personal messages only, please!

Response:

For a beginning traveler, I would suggest reading Europe Through The Back Door. Try getting it from your library.  Otherwise go to you local large bookstore and read it there.  Secondly, get a large comprehensive guidebook and a highlighter.  Start reading and highlight everthing that appeals to you.  From there, get a map and start planning a route.  You will have to make choices, you can’t see it all the first time–or second or third.  Have fun planning.  Ask here for more specific questions.  Use google to research on this newsgroup, areas you are interested in. Barbara in CT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe.  I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Get Rick Steves Europe Through the Backdoor which is an excellent introduction to travel for first timers — You dn’t have to follow his itineraries — which are rather ’see everything in three weeks’ — but the general advise is excellent and you can use his suggested itineraries as a starting place for building your own travel

Response:

I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe. I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Just do some research on the web, buy a travel guide, or both. Go to your favorite search engine and type in "travel Europe." I’m sure you’ll come up with tons of information, replace Europe with the name of a country or city and you’ll get stuff, too. A good first step would be to figure out how much time and money you have at your disposal for this trip. Richard

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe. I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!!

Two guidebooks that help you prioritize: Rick Steves’ Europe Through the Back Door and the Michelin guides. It may not be that their priorities are yours, but it’s a place to start. I like to look at picture books to find places that appeal to me. The more research you do ahead of time the more rewarding your trip. Marianne

Response:

Read Bill Bryson’s account of his travel round Europe. Its the most accurate IMO… Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Get Rick Steves Europe Through the Backdoor which is an excellent introduction to travel for first timers — You dn’t have to follow his itineraries — which are rather ’see everything in three weeks’ — but the general advise is excellent and you can use his suggested itineraries as a starting place for building your own travel

Response:

Bryson’s book:  "Neither Here Nor There" hilarious and informative – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Read Bill Bryson’s account of his travel round Europe. Its the most accurate IMO… Dave Get Rick Steves Europe Through the Backdoor which is an excellent introduction to travel for first timers — You dn’t have to follow his itineraries — which are rather ’see everything in three weeks’ — but the general advise is excellent and you can use his suggested itineraries as a starting place for building your own travel

Response:

Thanks to all of you!! I can say to everyone who has responded to my post that you have all contributed a penny in my fountain of travels!   I really appreciate all your time!!

Response:

The Lonely Planet guides are also very good. One of the decisions you  will have to make is how you want to travel-train, rental car,etc. Once you have decided which cities you will be seeing and for how long, you can start researching train passes (Eurorail) and budget air fares. In some cases, flying between major cities is cheaper than train and saves time. Last week we flew from AMsterdam to Barcelona for 105 Euros per person. Check out Easyjet.com, Ryan Air and buzzaway.com. The earlier you book, the more cheap flights will be available. Buying point-to-point train tickets may save money over buying a Eurorail pass, depending on how much travelling you want to do over what period of time. Rick Steves site http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/home.htm offers some advice on calculating the cost of train travel. Some good deals on hotels can be found at Laterooms.com. If you are in Barcelona, go to the Park Guell and the Sagrada Familia, just two of the outstanding examples of architect Antoni Gaudi’s work. Paris is a blast-the Louvre is a must-plan on at least one full day (more if you have time). The Eiffel Tower and Arc de Triomphe IMHO are a bit overrated but the traffic at the Arc during rush hour is just crazy-a show in itself! Most striking thing about Paris apart from the architecture was the abundance of cafes, bakeries and restaurants. Every block seems to be lined with them. There is certainly no lack of good food in every price range. Definitely look at whatever churches you come across-they are usually a haven of coolness and calm in a busy city and offer some beautiful and inspiring artwork. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to fulfill my dream and want to travel to Europe after getting my Master’s Degree nest summer.  However, I am just beginning to research this trip and am desperate for some "common sense" beginners advice on Europe. I want to basically do the tourist thing and visit the museums, go to Paris, and the famous spots.   Can anyone tell me what are the "must sees" and the "don’t see".  Basically I’m just starting and would appreciate any general advice.  BTW I think this place is great!!! Two guidebooks that help you prioritize: Rick Steves’ Europe Through the Back Door and the Michelin guides. It may not be that their priorities are yours, but it’s a place to start. I like to look at picture books to find places that appeal to me. The more research you do ahead of time the more rewarding your trip. Marianne

Response:

The Eiffel Tower and Arc de Triomphe IMHO are a bit overrated but the = traffic at the Arc during rush hour is just crazy-a show in itself!=20

[snip] I don’t know what it means to say that these things are or may be overrated. Overrated based on what criterion? Or is it that they could be overrated in comparison to other great things in Paris? Best, Michael To reply by email, please take out the TRASH (so to speak). Personal messages only, please!

Response:

The Lonely Planet guides are also very good.

Beware of those Lonely Planet guides. I stayed in a hotel in London recommended by Lonely Planet guides. Up until then, even in Hostels, I had never seen graffiti on the walls, inside the room, complaining about the hotel that we were in.  Not everything is well researched or up to date, in any travel guide. But, of course, that’s also true about most any other guide. That’s not to say that you can’t find useful info, just read a lot of them to try and find items that are of interest to you. Good Luck

Response:

Question:

Hello, I’m looking for a cheap economy return from London, UK to Los Angeles, USA. Dates of travel will be 30th June (around midday preferably) and 14th July (around 5pm preferably). So far I’ve been looking at United Airlines, American Airlines and British Airways (Virgin Atlantic are booked out). They all offer similar priced flights (around

Question:

I am just trying a hunch to see if there is a way of getting a good deal on the internet. Can anyone advise me ? My son and I think two or three of his mates are looking for a cheap way to get over to Fuerteventura for a week commencing around the 23rd March. They wish to go surfing. They are in Ireland but might have to get to the uk to get a flight. Any guidance in getting a good deal would be great and save them money. Up to now I cant see any big savings from going to the last minute deals. Do the good deals exist at all or is it just hype? Thank you Ged

Big problem at the moment – there are no cheapies around. Look at avro.co.uk or airflights.co.uk, but instead of paying

Question:

i have had 100% luck with faxing.  i guess it goes right into their ‘to do’ file.  plus, you get a document for reference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

i have had 100% luck with faxing.  i guess it goes right into their ‘to do’ file.  plus, you get a document for reference.

I recently faxed a hotel in Osnabruck.  spelling out the details, including price which I had from the meeting I am attending. The next day they faxed me back a copy of my fax with a stamp saying "confirmed" or something like that.

Response:

Just a conjecture, but what language did you write in?  Is it possible the large, expensive hotels may have people on their staff who are fluent in English, while the smaller ones do not? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

I had exactly the same problem with 2 hotels in Naples Florida USA. I sent 2 e.mails to both. One answered at last "our customers usually book one year e.mails??????   ;o))))) — Alain – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel  - . Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Because it’s france – it’s not internet land there.  I’ve had much better luck with faxes.  Or try a travel agent.

Response:

You should try booking via the Logis site. The address for the UK site is http://www.logis-de-france.fr/uk/index.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel  - . Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails? Because it’s france – it’s not internet land there.  I’ve had much better luck with faxes.  Or try a travel agent.

Response:

I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Be cool. Hotels in France are still not ready to answer Email. They prefer direct booking by phones. That’s what I do since 40 years and still do even if i have a huge web site and several Email addresses. But I  my lesson: PHONE them. It’s worth the few francs more you will spend, or if you have a special cheap calling card, use it. About hotels Bayeux, i have  a few very good deals for you. My advise (as always, completely free): just log on the Bayeux hotel section recommendations of my web site on (and call them up, you will have your preferred room in a jiffy) http://www.jack-travel.com/Normandy/Bayeux_hotels.htm For more about Normandy http://www.jack-travel.com/Normandy/Normandy_Main_Page.htm And for more about all the rest of France, Paris included http://www.jack-travel.com/Jacks_Europeantravels/html/FranceTravel.htm Jack Visit my personal website where you’ll find my travel tips, hotel suggestions, and restaurant reviews for Paris, most regions of France, Belgium, Amsterdam and Venice. http://www.jack-travel.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

It’s very common for European hotels to not respond to e-mails or faxes when they have no space. You might want to give your target hotels a call. Ed — Traveling With Ed & Julie: http://TWEnJ.com Trip Planning: Tips, Tools and Resources Rome . Switzerland . Bavaria . Colorado’s San Juans

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Be cool. Hotels in France are still not ready to answer Email. They prefer direct booking by phones. That’s what I do since 40 years and still do even if i have a huge web site and several Email addresses. But I  my lesson: PHONE them. It’s worth the few francs more you will spend, or if you have a special cheap calling card, use it. About hotels Bayeux, i have  a few very good deals for you. My advise (as always, completely free): just log on the Bayeux hotel section recommendations of my web site on (and call them up, you will have your preferred room in a jiffy) http://www.jack-travel.com/Normandy/Bayeux_hotels.htm For more about Normandy http://www.jack-travel.com/Normandy/Normandy_Main_Page.htm And for more about all the rest of France, Paris included http://www.jack-travel.com/Jacks_Europeantravels/html/FranceTravel.htm Jack Visit my personal website where you’ll find my travel tips, hotel suggestions, and restaurant reviews for Paris, most regions of France, Belgium, Amsterdam and Venice. http://www.jack-travel.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

It’s very common for European hotels to not respond to e-mails or faxes when they have no space. You might want to give your target hotels a call. Ed — Traveling With Ed & Julie: http://TWEnJ.com Trip Planning: Tips, Tools and Resources Rome . Switzerland . Bavaria . Colorado’s San Juans

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

i have had 100% luck with faxing.  i guess it goes right into their ‘to do’ file.  plus, you get a document for reference.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

i have had 100% luck with faxing.  i guess it goes right into their ‘to do’ file.  plus, you get a document for reference.

I recently faxed a hotel in Osnabruck.  spelling out the details, including price which I had from the meeting I am attending. The next day they faxed me back a copy of my fax with a stamp saying "confirmed" or something like that.

Response:

Just a conjecture, but what language did you write in?  Is it possible the large, expensive hotels may have people on their staff who are fluent in English, while the smaller ones do not? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

I had exactly the same problem with 2 hotels in Naples Florida USA. I sent 2 e.mails to both. One answered at last "our customers usually book one year e.mails??????   ;o))))) — Alain – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel telling me they have no rooms but listing 2 expensive hotels (owned by the same) that do. Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Response:

I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel  - . Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails?

Because it’s france – it’s not internet land there.  I’ve had much better luck with faxes.  Or try a travel agent.

Response:

You should try booking via the Logis site. The address for the UK site is http://www.logis-de-france.fr/uk/index.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been trying to find a hotel for one night in Bayeux in October. I have sent e-mail and filled out online booking forms. I have only had one reply from an inexpensive hotel  - . Why are these places so slow, or why do they ignore e-mails? Because it’s france – it’s not internet land there.  I’ve had much better luck with faxes.  Or try a travel agent.

Response:

Question:

In the UK (where I live) I pay 3p (4.5