Question:

On trips that are almost exclusively in one country, a national pass is definitely the way to go. For example, since I usually go to Germany, I always buy a German Rail Pass, which is *much* cheaper (especially since we always get a "twin" pass for two people). Then, if we end up going somewhere else (Amsterdam, for example), you can just buy a ticket to Amsterdam from the German border. Works the same with all neighboring countries. There is a "Prague Excursion Pass" (that I just bought for $35usd) that gets you from the German border to Prague and back to any other German border. This kind of thing can be done in almost any European country, as they all have "national" rail passes of their own. Check out the guide at Rick Steves: http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/home.htm because it explains how to figure out what is best for you. There are also some great books about European train travel available from your public library. Have fun!! Train travel rocks! Javaman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like Eurail passes and was posting about them in another thread, but one or two people mentioned that they thought there were better alternatives. I don’t like the x days or travel in y weeks type, nor the ones that are restricted by country unless they include all the countries we visit, which are typically Germany, Austria, France, England (alright, that one doesn’t have to be on the pass), Italy, and the Netherlands. Any suggestions for a better pass than the Eurail pass? Don’t want any kind you need to wait in line in the station with every time you travel. We’re over 26, and live in the States (we also have a residence in Austria if that helps…). Thanks. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide.

I also like the Eurail Pass because it MAKES me go 1st class.  If the 2nd point to point fares are starting to get close to the cost of the 1st class railpass, then it’s definitely worth it for the 1st class railpass.  It’s only incrementally more comfort, but it’s a lot easier to just hop on or off trains without worrying about how full they are going to be.  And depending upon how busy things are, it sometimes really is a lot more comfort.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide. I also like the Eurail Pass because it MAKES me go 1st class.  If the 2nd point to point fares are starting to get close to the cost of the 1st class railpass, then it’s definitely worth it for the 1st class railpass.  It’s only incrementally more comfort, but it’s a lot easier to just hop on or off trains without worrying about how full they are going to be.  And depending upon how busy things are, it sometimes really is a lot more comfort.

Except for slightly more comfort, all of this is true of other railpasses as well. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

I like the eurail pass, although it is expensive, but each time I mention it, I get tons of vitrolic replies. OK. I thought I’d check if there was a similar multi-country pass with the same convenience.

I don’t have the details on this, but I was looking into it because my next trip is going to be to both Germany and Austria. There is a flexible railpass you can buy for more than one country which is cheaper than the Eurailpass, but it’s for a limited number of countries(in various combinations). I’ve used the German Flexi-pass several times and been very happy with it, because I do NOT want to spend EVERY day on a train to get my money’s worth — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

As Dave Hatunen points out, "better alternatives" depend on what _you_ think makes an alternative ‘better’.

[...] The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide.  I like the eurail pass, although it is expensive, but each time I  mention it, I get tons of vitrolic replies. OK. I thought I’d check if  there was a similar multi-country pass with the same convenience.  Apparently not. Will answer those vitrolic replies in like tone when  they recurr. No, I’m not pushing the Eurail pass, but when I say I use  it and people try to jump all over me for it, I’ll answer in kind.

I can’t say that I’ve noticed a lot of "vitriol" on the subject, except that directed at the companies who sell the passes.  And that is due to the fact that such companies very often present outrageously overpriced point-to-point prices as "comparison" with the price of a pass.  Which leads newcomers to think "well, it’s about the same price for a pass, and it’s more convenient, so why not go with a pass?" — when such usully isn’t the case. It is one thing to value convenience and be willing to pay a premium for it; it is another to be misled into thinking that one isn’t paying extra. — hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org            <http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As Dave Hatunen points out, "better alternatives" depend on what _you_ think makes an alternative ‘better’. As most people point out on this subject, the problem with the standard Eurail Pass is that it is expensive, and the only way it is worthwhile (in terms of cost) is if one is spending almost all of one’s time on trains. It is convenient, of course, and that is worth something.  If that is your primary consideration (and it seems so from what you write above), then the Eurail Pass may be "better" for you. And most people will pay _something_ for convenience.  I’ve bought transit passes in Budapest and Rome that weren’t "worth it" strictly in terms of cost — but a) the convenience was a factor; and b) the actual cost was very low. The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide.

I like the eurail pass, although it is expensive, but each time I mention it, I get tons of vitrolic replies. OK. I thought I’d check if there was a similar multi-country pass with the same convenience. Apparently not. Will answer those vitrolic replies in like tone when they recurr. No, I’m not pushing the Eurail pass, but when I say I use it and people try to jump all over me for it, I’ll answer in kind. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

 I like Eurail passes and was posting about them in another thread, but  one or two people mentioned that they thought there were better  alternatives. I don’t like the x days or travel in y weeks type, nor  the ones that are restricted by country unless they include all the  countries we visit, which are typically Germany, Austria, France,  England (alright, that one doesn’t have to be on the pass), Italy, and  the Netherlands. Any suggestions for a better pass than the Eurail  pass? Don’t want any kind you need to wait in line in the station with  every time you travel. We’re over 26, and live in the States (we also  have a residence in Austria if that helps…). Thanks.

As Dave Hatunen points out, "better alternatives" depend on what _you_ think makes an alternative ‘better’. As most people point out on this subject, the problem with the standard Eurail Pass is that it is expensive, and the only way it is worthwhile (in terms of cost) is if one is spending almost all of one’s time on trains. It is convenient, of course, and that is worth something.  If that is your primary consideration (and it seems so from what you write above), then the Eurail Pass may be "better" for you. And most people will pay _something_ for convenience.  I’ve bought transit passes in Budapest and Rome that weren’t "worth it" strictly in terms of cost — but a) the convenience was a factor; and b) the actual cost was very low. The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide. — hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org            <http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html

Response:

I like Eurail passes and was posting about them in another thread, but one or two people mentioned that they thought there were better alternatives. I don’t like the x days or travel in y weeks type, nor the ones that are restricted by country unless they include all the countries we visit, which are typically Germany, Austria, France, England (alright, that one doesn’t have to be on the pass), Italy, and the Netherlands. Any suggestions for a better pass than the Eurail pass? Don’t want any kind you need to wait in line in the station with every time you travel. We’re over 26, and live in the States (we also have a residence in Austria if that helps…). Thanks. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

I like Eurail passes and was posting about them in another thread, but one or two people mentioned that they thought there were better alternatives. I don’t like the x days or travel in y weeks type, nor the ones that are restricted by country unless they include all the countries we visit, which are typically Germany, Austria, France, England (alright, that one doesn’t have to be on the pass), Italy, and the Netherlands. Any suggestions for a better pass than the Eurail pass? Don’t want any kind you need to wait in line in the station with every time you travel. We’re over 26, and live in the States (we also have a residence in Austria if that helps…). Thanks.

See http://www.railpass.com for the best listing of available passes (I did like it better whent hey had the big spreadsheet of passes). "Better" is a highly subjective term and only you can decide if one pass is better than another for *you*. The standard Eurailpass is the only railpass that allows unlimited travel in a given time frame. My wife, daughter and I had a "family" Eurailpass six years ago and like it fine, and even enjoyed the first class travel that comes with the pass. But it worked for us because we we were traveling round trip between Brussels and Helsinki, and only the Eurailpass covers Scandinavia and the ferries between Sweden and Finland, and we did a lot of train travel within Finland. EVen then I can’s say that we actually saved money with the Eurailpass, and we never got another. The freedom the pass offered was wonderful, though, and worth some extra money up front. Remember, though, that for some trains even with a Eurailpass or Europass you may have to get in line at teh station; many trains, such as the high speed trains, require you to pay a supplemental fee, and you will also have to line up if you want to buy seat reservations on any train, a wise precaution if there are several of you travelling together and you want to assure you sit together; the reservations only cost a few dollars, but you do have to get in line. You might find the Eurail Selectpass, offering coverage in three adjoining countries of your choice attractive, but it is still a flexipass (x days in y weeks). Country passes can be a good deal. Once in Finland we discovered the Finnrail pass had a special deal of seven days for the cost of five, which was a good deal for us. The whole situation is fraught with complications, since each country has its own deals for regular tickets; you can get a Bahncard in Germany, etc. We’ve not had a whole lot of trouble buying point-to-point tickets at stations in Europe, and have generally found the ticket agents to be helpful (although I did once have to drag out my copy of Cook’s timetables to show a Belgian agent just which trip in his Cook’s timetable I was trying to buy tickets for). On the other hand, we haven’t been to many of the really crazy stations like Rome.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

I like Eurail passes and was posting about them in another thread, but one or two people mentioned that they thought there were better alternatives. I don’t like the x days or travel in y weeks type, nor the ones that are restricted by country unless they include all the countries we visit, which are typically Germany, Austria, France, England (alright, that one doesn’t have to be on the pass), Italy, and the Netherlands. Any suggestions for a better pass than the Eurail pass? Don’t want any kind you need to wait in line in the station with every time you travel. We’re over 26, and live in the States (we also have a residence in Austria if that helps…). Thanks. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

I like Eurail passes and was posting about them in another thread, but one or two people mentioned that they thought there were better alternatives. I don’t like the x days or travel in y weeks type, nor the ones that are restricted by country unless they include all the countries we visit, which are typically Germany, Austria, France, England (alright, that one doesn’t have to be on the pass), Italy, and the Netherlands. Any suggestions for a better pass than the Eurail pass? Don’t want any kind you need to wait in line in the station with every time you travel. We’re over 26, and live in the States (we also have a residence in Austria if that helps…). Thanks.

See http://www.railpass.com for the best listing of available passes (I did like it better whent hey had the big spreadsheet of passes). "Better" is a highly subjective term and only you can decide if one pass is better than another for *you*. The standard Eurailpass is the only railpass that allows unlimited travel in a given time frame. My wife, daughter and I had a "family" Eurailpass six years ago and like it fine, and even enjoyed the first class travel that comes with the pass. But it worked for us because we we were traveling round trip between Brussels and Helsinki, and only the Eurailpass covers Scandinavia and the ferries between Sweden and Finland, and we did a lot of train travel within Finland. EVen then I can’s say that we actually saved money with the Eurailpass, and we never got another. The freedom the pass offered was wonderful, though, and worth some extra money up front. Remember, though, that for some trains even with a Eurailpass or Europass you may have to get in line at teh station; many trains, such as the high speed trains, require you to pay a supplemental fee, and you will also have to line up if you want to buy seat reservations on any train, a wise precaution if there are several of you travelling together and you want to assure you sit together; the reservations only cost a few dollars, but you do have to get in line. You might find the Eurail Selectpass, offering coverage in three adjoining countries of your choice attractive, but it is still a flexipass (x days in y weeks). Country passes can be a good deal. Once in Finland we discovered the Finnrail pass had a special deal of seven days for the cost of five, which was a good deal for us. The whole situation is fraught with complications, since each country has its own deals for regular tickets; you can get a Bahncard in Germany, etc. We’ve not had a whole lot of trouble buying point-to-point tickets at stations in Europe, and have generally found the ticket agents to be helpful (although I did once have to drag out my copy of Cook’s timetables to show a Belgian agent just which trip in his Cook’s timetable I was trying to buy tickets for). On the other hand, we haven’t been to many of the really crazy stations like Rome.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

On trips that are almost exclusively in one country, a national pass is definitely the way to go. For example, since I usually go to Germany, I always buy a German Rail Pass, which is *much* cheaper (especially since we always get a "twin" pass for two people). Then, if we end up going somewhere else (Amsterdam, for example), you can just buy a ticket to Amsterdam from the German border. Works the same with all neighboring countries. There is a "Prague Excursion Pass" (that I just bought for $35usd) that gets you from the German border to Prague and back to any other German border. This kind of thing can be done in almost any European country, as they all have "national" rail passes of their own. Check out the guide at Rick Steves: http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/home.htm because it explains how to figure out what is best for you. There are also some great books about European train travel available from your public library. Have fun!! Train travel rocks! Javaman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like Eurail passes and was posting about them in another thread, but one or two people mentioned that they thought there were better alternatives. I don’t like the x days or travel in y weeks type, nor the ones that are restricted by country unless they include all the countries we visit, which are typically Germany, Austria, France, England (alright, that one doesn’t have to be on the pass), Italy, and the Netherlands. Any suggestions for a better pass than the Eurail pass? Don’t want any kind you need to wait in line in the station with every time you travel. We’re over 26, and live in the States (we also have a residence in Austria if that helps…). Thanks. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

 I like Eurail passes and was posting about them in another thread, but  one or two people mentioned that they thought there were better  alternatives. I don’t like the x days or travel in y weeks type, nor  the ones that are restricted by country unless they include all the  countries we visit, which are typically Germany, Austria, France,  England (alright, that one doesn’t have to be on the pass), Italy, and  the Netherlands. Any suggestions for a better pass than the Eurail  pass? Don’t want any kind you need to wait in line in the station with  every time you travel. We’re over 26, and live in the States (we also  have a residence in Austria if that helps…). Thanks.

As Dave Hatunen points out, "better alternatives" depend on what _you_ think makes an alternative ‘better’. As most people point out on this subject, the problem with the standard Eurail Pass is that it is expensive, and the only way it is worthwhile (in terms of cost) is if one is spending almost all of one’s time on trains. It is convenient, of course, and that is worth something.  If that is your primary consideration (and it seems so from what you write above), then the Eurail Pass may be "better" for you. And most people will pay _something_ for convenience.  I’ve bought transit passes in Budapest and Rome that weren’t "worth it" strictly in terms of cost — but a) the convenience was a factor; and b) the actual cost was very low. The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide. — hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org            <http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html

Response:

The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide.

I also like the Eurail Pass because it MAKES me go 1st class.  If the 2nd point to point fares are starting to get close to the cost of the 1st class railpass, then it’s definitely worth it for the 1st class railpass.  It’s only incrementally more comfort, but it’s a lot easier to just hop on or off trains without worrying about how full they are going to be.  And depending upon how busy things are, it sometimes really is a lot more comfort.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide. I also like the Eurail Pass because it MAKES me go 1st class.  If the 2nd point to point fares are starting to get close to the cost of the 1st class railpass, then it’s definitely worth it for the 1st class railpass.  It’s only incrementally more comfort, but it’s a lot easier to just hop on or off trains without worrying about how full they are going to be.  And depending upon how busy things are, it sometimes really is a lot more comfort.

Except for slightly more comfort, all of this is true of other railpasses as well. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As Dave Hatunen points out, "better alternatives" depend on what _you_ think makes an alternative ‘better’. As most people point out on this subject, the problem with the standard Eurail Pass is that it is expensive, and the only way it is worthwhile (in terms of cost) is if one is spending almost all of one’s time on trains. It is convenient, of course, and that is worth something.  If that is your primary consideration (and it seems so from what you write above), then the Eurail Pass may be "better" for you. And most people will pay _something_ for convenience.  I’ve bought transit passes in Budapest and Rome that weren’t "worth it" strictly in terms of cost — but a) the convenience was a factor; and b) the actual cost was very low. The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide.

I like the eurail pass, although it is expensive, but each time I mention it, I get tons of vitrolic replies. OK. I thought I’d check if there was a similar multi-country pass with the same convenience. Apparently not. Will answer those vitrolic replies in like tone when they recurr. No, I’m not pushing the Eurail pass, but when I say I use it and people try to jump all over me for it, I’ll answer in kind. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

As Dave Hatunen points out, "better alternatives" depend on what _you_ think makes an alternative ‘better’.

[...] The problem people see with the Eurail Pass is that, unless one is constantly on the train, one is paying rather a lot for convenience. Whether it is worth the money to you is something that only you can decide.  I like the eurail pass, although it is expensive, but each time I  mention it, I get tons of vitrolic replies. OK. I thought I’d check if  there was a similar multi-country pass with the same convenience.  Apparently not. Will answer those vitrolic replies in like tone when  they recurr. No, I’m not pushing the Eurail pass, but when I say I use  it and people try to jump all over me for it, I’ll answer in kind.

I can’t say that I’ve noticed a lot of "vitriol" on the subject, except that directed at the companies who sell the passes.  And that is due to the fact that such companies very often present outrageously overpriced point-to-point prices as "comparison" with the price of a pass.  Which leads newcomers to think "well, it’s about the same price for a pass, and it’s more convenient, so why not go with a pass?" — when such usully isn’t the case. It is one thing to value convenience and be willing to pay a premium for it; it is another to be misled into thinking that one isn’t paying extra. — hate spam? <http://www.cauce.org            <http://www.byshenk.net/ive.been.spammed.html

Response:

I like the eurail pass, although it is expensive, but each time I mention it, I get tons of vitrolic replies. OK. I thought I’d check if there was a similar multi-country pass with the same convenience.

I don’t have the details on this, but I was looking into it because my next trip is going to be to both Germany and Austria. There is a flexible railpass you can buy for more than one country which is cheaper than the Eurailpass, but it’s for a limited number of countries(in various combinations). I’ve used the German Flexi-pass several times and been very happy with it, because I do NOT want to spend EVERY day on a train to get my money’s worth — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

Question:

In early March, wife and I want to train it from Lugano, Switzerland to Venice.  Two days later train it to Salzburg, Austria.  In reading the thread, it sounds like you all recommend buying the tickets on site instead of a pre-bought pass.  Am I correct in my assumption?

No need to calculate as those rather short trips are by far less expensive with buying tickets on site compared with railpasses. Plus, I am, unfortunately, only an English speaker.  Would anyone know if there is enough "English" around in Lugano and Venice train stations for me to walk in and figure this out fairly easily?  We will be looking for the highest speed trains, as time is an issue.  We have been to Zurich and Geneva and gotten along quite well.  Thanks.

Don’t think there are any problems using  English (I’ve experience of Venice) If not be prepared to make your request written. There are no high speed trains on those routes as they are through mountains but they’re real scenic.      L.P

Response:

I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. It depends–if you can afford it, get one. Otherwise you’ll be spending hours in train stations (in particular, Rome’s Termini and Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) waiting in line, waiting in line, waiting in line, and finally buying tickets. Nice to have the freedom of the pass and jump on when you want (assuming there are non-reserved seats). It’s NOT just a matter of cost.

It is not necessary to buy rail tickets in the train station. You can buy them at travel agents. Several days ahead of time. Also if the line is long in Roma’s Termini station, I just go to the travel agent inside the station. Marianne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The general advice is to compare the price of a rail pass to the cost of individual tickets. With the caveat to be sure to get the realistic prices. The point-to-point fares shown on almost all travel agent sites, even RailEurope, are inflated and are only for certain higer fares, rather like only quoting the full coach fare on an airplane. For instance, I just did a quick look at Rick Steves’ web site where he has a map showing fares between many points for comparison with the cost of a pass (which he sells). Steve’s indicates a fare of EUR 105 from Berlin to Frankfurt while the DB web site shows the fare as EUR 86, and that fare is without any of the available discounts or Bahncards. RailEurope gives this fare as $96 (EUR 100). For fares inside a given country the country’s national rail web site is the best source of fare information, although some can be a bit difficult even in the English pages (if they have English pages). Sweden seems to have made a point of making it difficult to get fares from afar. On the other hand, the Finnish rail site is a model of lucidity (although I don’t seem to be able to properly download its fare calcultor pages recently). Trips between countries can be difficult to ferret out. Some national web sites do give fares for international fares originating in that country, e.g., the French rail site gives fares from inside Paris to other countries, and will even price out journeys requiring a change of trains in the other country. Some "cheating" is requirted at some sites; e.g., at the French site pretend you are actually trying to book a ticket and you will pick up the ticket inside France. Secondarily, I for one would pay more for a pass just so I did not have to bother with the act of buying tickets. Sometimes ticket lines are long, and it is really nice to be able to just hop on a train. If the pass will only cost a bit more than point-to-point fares, go for the pass. There is a freedom you get from not worrying about having to dig out some more euros and wondering if your budget can afford it. Also, with a pass you are likely to make more rail journeys than you anticipated in making your calcs, so that in the end you may actually save rail fares with a pass and have a better time. The full Eurailpass is good for this sort of travel, while the flexipasses (x days in y weeks) may have you wondering whether you can afford to use up a day on the little side trip you’d like to make.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

As you all are much more informed on this than I, may I run something past you, please? In early March, wife and I want to train it from Lugano, Switzerland to Venice.  Two days later train it to Salzburg, Austria.  In reading the thread, it sounds like you all recommend buying the tickets on site instead of a pre-bought pass.  Am I correct in my assumption? Plus, I am, unfortunately, only an English speaker.  Would anyone know if there is enough "English" around in Lugano and Venice train stations for me to walk in and figure this out fairly easily?  We will be looking for the highest speed trains, as time is an issue.  We have been to Zurich and Geneva and gotten along quite well.  Thanks. — Rich www.headachedrugs.com

Response:

I have never spent more than five minutes in line at Termini.

Hm! If it wasn’t you, Barbara, I’d be tempted to reply that you must not go there much. When I’ve been there in the summer, the lines were literally hours long. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

…..Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) Not in my experience (latest use of Centraal Station was in September)

It’s true, it varies by time of year. Summer can be very, very bad. Made the mistake of once relying on that station for validating my Eurail pass before first use–five hour wait. Me and my travelling companions spent lots of time in the McDonalds upstairs. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

The general advice is to compare the price of a rail pass to the cost of individual tickets.  

With the caveat to be sure to get the realistic prices. The point-to-point fares shown on almost all travel agent sites, even RailEurope, are inflated and are only for certain higer fares, rather like only quoting the full coach fare on an airplane. For instance, I just did a quick look at Rick Steves’ web site where he has a map showing fares between many points for comparison with the cost of a pass (which he sells). Steve’s indicates a fare of EUR 105 from Berlin to Frankfurt while the DB web site shows the fare as EUR 86, and that fare is without any of the available discounts or Bahncards. RailEurope gives this fare as $96 (EUR 100). For fares inside a given country the country’s national rail web site is the best source of fare information, although some can be a bit difficult even in the English pages (if they have English pages). Sweden seems to have made a point of making it difficult to get fares from afar. On the other hand, the Finnish rail site is a model of lucidity (although I don’t seem to be able to properly download its fare calcultor pages recently). Trips between countries can be difficult to ferret out. Some national web sites do give fares for international fares originating in that country, e.g., the French rail site gives fares from inside Paris to other countries, and will even price out journeys requiring a change of trains in the other country. Some "cheating" is requirted at some sites; e.g., at the French site pretend you are actually trying to book a ticket and you will pick up the ticket inside France. Secondarily, I for one would pay more for a pass just so I did not have to bother with the act of buying tickets. Sometimes ticket lines are long, and it is really nice to be able to just hop on a train.

If the pass will only cost a bit more than point-to-point fares, go for the pass. There is a freedom you get from not worrying about having to dig out some more euros and wondering if your budget can afford it. Also, with a pass you are likely to make more rail journeys than you anticipated in making your calcs, so that in the end you may actually save rail fares with a pass and have a better time. The full Eurailpass is good for this sort of travel, while the flexipasses (x days in y weeks) may have you wondering whether you can afford to use up a day on the little side trip you’d like to make.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

…..Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) Not in my experience (latest use of Centraal Station was in September)

Went in there (the international area upstairs) a few days ago and there was a 45-minute wait. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

Response:

local train.  Typically, to get to smaller town, you take an express train to a hub city and a local train from there.  For example, to get to Pisa you’ll probably have to go through Florence.

Pisa is on the main line Genova-Rome!  I would suggest anyone travelling by Eurail-Interrail to buy a good rail-map, perhaps Thomas Cooks Rail Map of Europe including close to all European  railwaylines.          L.P

Response:

I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

The general advice is to compare the price of a rail pass to the cost of individual tickets.  Secondarily, I for one would pay more for a pass just so I did not have to bother with the act of buying tickets. Sometimes ticket lines are long, and it is really nice to be able to just hop on a train. All you destinations are great.  If you’re going past Florence, you should take in the Uffizzi art gallery in a day.  In Pisa, do not miss the baptistry – stick around long enough, and they close the doors and give a singing performance – very nice, as the acoustics are so perfect that one’s voice carries for a long time, enabling one to sing with oneself in harmony. Local trains mean trains that are slower and stop at every little town. This is different from the fast express trains that go to main hubs. The trains in Germany are great, in that there are little kiosks everywhere where you put in your departure and arrival place and time, and it tells you all your training options.  I remember clearly in one instance where I could leave an hour later on an inter-city express (ICE) than on a local train, but get there an hour earlier than the local train.  Typically, to get to smaller town, you take an express train to a hub city and a local train from there.  For example, to get to Pisa you’ll probably have to go through Florence. Dan — Dan Stephenson Grand Tour photos and video: http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda

Response:

 On some types of trains, a group traveling together can get a group discount (resulting in one ticket being issued for the group, rather than a bunch of individual tickets). — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Discounts for groups traveling together in Italian trains have changed recently and are much less convenient than used to be. Now to get a smaller discount the group has to be at least 6 passengers traveling together to get a 20% discount (10% on Eurostar Italia) or 2 adults traveling with one children under 12 yo.(in this case the children will not pay). Not as good as before when there was a 30% discount for any group of 3 to 5 passengers traveling together. Elio

Response:

 On some types of trains, a group traveling together can get a group discount (resulting in one ticket being issued for the group, rather than a bunch of individual tickets). — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Discounts for groups traveling together in Italian trains have changed recently and are much less convenient than used to be. Now to get a smaller discount the group has to be at least 6 passengers traveling together to get a 20% discount (10% on Eurostar Italia) or 2 adults traveling with one children under 12 yo.(in this case the children will not pay). Not as good as before when there was a 30% discount for any group of 3 to 5 passengers traveling together. Regards Elio

Response:

I have never spent more than five minutes in line at Termini. Now that they have ticket machines, you don’t have to spend any time in line. While the convenience may be worth something, buying a Eurail pass for travel in Italy might mean that 70% of the cost of the pass would be spent on convenience and 30% on transport.

I bought my first and only Eurailpass in 1961, for $125, good 3 months, first class. Even then, the only way I made it pay was to be constantly on the move. Strictly speaking, I’m not eligible for Eurailpasses anymore because I live in Europe. I do buy 1/2 fare subscriptions if I’m going to be in a country awhile. Notably in Belgium. (Switzerland 1-month passes aren’t a good by IMO, but 2-year passes are a bargain. You just need a Swiss address.)

Response:

…..Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow)

Not in my experience (latest use of Centraal Station was in September) Phil

Response:

You can get schedules on http://www.trenitalia.it

I have found this site to be both difficult and sometimes not up to date. The German European timetables at http://www.bahn.de/ are the best Phil

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. It depends–if you can afford it, get one. Otherwise you’ll be spending hours in train stations (in particular, Rome’s Termini and Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) waiting in line, waiting in line, waiting in line, and finally buying tickets. Nice to have the freedom of the pass and jump on when you want (assuming there are non-reserved seats). It’s NOT just a matter of cost.

I have never spent more than five minutes in line at Termini. Now that they have ticket machines, you don’t have to spend any time in line. While the convenience may be worth something, buying a Eurail pass for travel in Italy might mean that 70% of the cost of the pass would be spent on convenience and 30% on transport. Barbara

Response:

In my opinion, Eurail passes are no longer the bargain they used to be, especially if you’re travelling in Italy.  The train tickets there are so cheap it’s ridiculous. If you’re coming from Innsbruck, why not plan to visit Venice?  It’s one of the must-see places in Europe and it’s practically next door.  You can skip Pisa.  There’s nothing there but a leaning tower.  Otherwise it’s a not too attractive blue collar town.  Turin is a little better, but if you’re venturing into that area, I’d recommend the Cinque Terre, on the coast between Pisa and Genoa.  Portofino is also just north of there.  It’s a beautiful area. Eurial passes are only a deal if you’re you plan to travel several long distance trips in a short amount of time.  In your case, I can’t imagine a pass being cheaper than single tickets.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

Response:

There are quite a nunmber of different passes, the traditional Eurail Pass beding about the MOST expensive.  Some offer any N days out of M days in one or a few countries, often available in second as well as first class. Some include a few days of rental car, not necessarily sequential.  There are lots of variations.

That’s why I said if you can afford it–sounds like the OP will be doing lots of travelling, and a 2 week Eurail pass is the deluxe option for that–you won’t run out of travelling days. Most of the other ones are offered by country, which is awkward if you’re moving a lot. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. It depends–if you can afford it, get one. Otherwise you’ll be spending hours in train stations (in particular, Rome’s Termini and Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) waiting in line, waiting in line, waiting in line, and finally buying tickets. Nice to have the freedom of the pass and jump on when you want (assuming there are non-reserved seats). It’s NOT just a matter of cost.

There are quite a nunmber of different passes, the traditional Eurail Pass beding about the MOST expensive.  Some offer any N days out of M days in one or a few countries, often available in second as well as first class. Some include a few days of rental car, not necessarily sequential.  There are lots of variations. Unless you’re going to see more of trains rather than of the "sights", one of the other passes generally makes more sense.

Response:

                                            I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains?

Italian trains are inexpensive.  You can get schedules on http://www.trenitalia.it .  Prices may also be listed.  You can buy tickets at the train stations.  You may want to record the schedules and bring them on the trip. Eurostar (ES*) trains are the fastest and have all reserved seating. IC trains have some reserved seating available for an extra charge. Prices do get higher for faster trains, so if you have a pass, you may have to pay extra to use the faster trains.  On some types of trains, a group traveling together can get a group discount (resulting in one ticket being issued for the group, rather than a bunch of individual tickets). — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Response:

Hi, I *usually* tend to vacation in only one or two countries at a time, and so I find that individual country passes are cheaper than Eurail. This can be especially true when travelling with someone, as you can get a "twin pass" which lowers the cost even more. I try to rough out my itinerary, use a website (like DB’s: http://www.bahn.de/pv/uebersicht/die_bahn_international_guests.shtml ) to get an idea of the ballpark cost of individual tickets and then decide from there. If you have the time, there are some GREAT books about European train travel that you can get from the library, that cover each country and how it all works with tips and advice (and it’s free!). Have a great time!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

Response:

The following webpage will help you decide: http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/home.htm Barbara in CT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

Response:

I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains?

The only way to find out is to price your proposed route and compare it with the cost of a pass. Let’s Go Europe (and perhaps other guidebooks) has a chart of second class basic train fares between various European cities. While you may not find the exact cities you want, you can usually find something nearby and the price should be similar. You might want to add about 10 – 20% to this estimate for upgrades to trains more expensive than basic fare but still covered by Eurail passes, for unplanned trips, and for the convenience factor. Some trains will require that you buy a supplement or mandatory reserved seats even if you have a Eurail pass. If you are under 26 and can get the 2nd class (youth) Eurail pass, you are more likely to see a savings. However, Italian train fares are quite low and it almost never pays to use a Eurail pass for travel mostly in Italy, even if it’s a youth pass. Whatever you do, don’t compare the price of a pass with the cost of point-to-point tickets offered by raileurope or other American vendors of European train tickets. These are greatly inflated. Barbara

Response:

I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice.

It depends–if you can afford it, get one. Otherwise you’ll be spending hours in train stations (in particular, Rome’s Termini and Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) waiting in line, waiting in line, waiting in line, and finally buying tickets. Nice to have the freedom of the pass and jump on when you want (assuming there are non-reserved seats). It’s NOT just a matter of cost. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

Response:

                                            I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains?

Italian trains are inexpensive.  You can get schedules on http://www.trenitalia.it .  Prices may also be listed.  You can buy tickets at the train stations.  You may want to record the schedules and bring them on the trip. Eurostar (ES*) trains are the fastest and have all reserved seating. IC trains have some reserved seating available for an extra charge. Prices do get higher for faster trains, so if you have a pass, you may have to pay extra to use the faster trains.  On some types of trains, a group traveling together can get a group discount (resulting in one ticket being issued for the group, rather than a bunch of individual tickets). — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Response:

Hi, I *usually* tend to vacation in only one or two countries at a time, and so I find that individual country passes are cheaper than Eurail. This can be especially true when travelling with someone, as you can get a "twin pass" which lowers the cost even more. I try to rough out my itinerary, use a website (like DB’s: http://www.bahn.de/pv/uebersicht/die_bahn_international_guests.shtml ) to get an idea of the ballpark cost of individual tickets and then decide from there. If you have the time, there are some GREAT books about European train travel that you can get from the library, that cover each country and how it all works with tips and advice (and it’s free!). Have a great time!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

Response:

The following webpage will help you decide: http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/home.htm Barbara in CT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

Response:

I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains?

The only way to find out is to price your proposed route and compare it with the cost of a pass. Let’s Go Europe (and perhaps other guidebooks) has a chart of second class basic train fares between various European cities. While you may not find the exact cities you want, you can usually find something nearby and the price should be similar. You might want to add about 10 – 20% to this estimate for upgrades to trains more expensive than basic fare but still covered by Eurail passes, for unplanned trips, and for the convenience factor. Some trains will require that you buy a supplement or mandatory reserved seats even if you have a Eurail pass. If you are under 26 and can get the 2nd class (youth) Eurail pass, you are more likely to see a savings. However, Italian train fares are quite low and it almost never pays to use a Eurail pass for travel mostly in Italy, even if it’s a youth pass. Whatever you do, don’t compare the price of a pass with the cost of point-to-point tickets offered by raileurope or other American vendors of European train tickets. These are greatly inflated. Barbara

Response:

I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice.

It depends–if you can afford it, get one. Otherwise you’ll be spending hours in train stations (in particular, Rome’s Termini and Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) waiting in line, waiting in line, waiting in line, and finally buying tickets. Nice to have the freedom of the pass and jump on when you want (assuming there are non-reserved seats). It’s NOT just a matter of cost. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. It depends–if you can afford it, get one. Otherwise you’ll be spending hours in train stations (in particular, Rome’s Termini and Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) waiting in line, waiting in line, waiting in line, and finally buying tickets. Nice to have the freedom of the pass and jump on when you want (assuming there are non-reserved seats). It’s NOT just a matter of cost.

There are quite a nunmber of different passes, the traditional Eurail Pass beding about the MOST expensive.  Some offer any N days out of M days in one or a few countries, often available in second as well as first class. Some include a few days of rental car, not necessarily sequential.  There are lots of variations. Unless you’re going to see more of trains rather than of the "sights", one of the other passes generally makes more sense.

Response:

There are quite a nunmber of different passes, the traditional Eurail Pass beding about the MOST expensive.  Some offer any N days out of M days in one or a few countries, often available in second as well as first class. Some include a few days of rental car, not necessarily sequential.  There are lots of variations.

That’s why I said if you can afford it–sounds like the OP will be doing lots of travelling, and a 2 week Eurail pass is the deluxe option for that–you won’t run out of travelling days. Most of the other ones are offered by country, which is awkward if you’re moving a lot. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

In my opinion, Eurail passes are no longer the bargain they used to be, especially if you’re travelling in Italy.  The train tickets there are so cheap it’s ridiculous. If you’re coming from Innsbruck, why not plan to visit Venice?  It’s one of the must-see places in Europe and it’s practically next door.  You can skip Pisa.  There’s nothing there but a leaning tower.  Otherwise it’s a not too attractive blue collar town.  Turin is a little better, but if you’re venturing into that area, I’d recommend the Cinque Terre, on the coast between Pisa and Genoa.  Portofino is also just north of there.  It’s a beautiful area. Eurial passes are only a deal if you’re you plan to travel several long distance trips in a short amount of time.  In your case, I can’t imagine a pass being cheaper than single tickets.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. It depends–if you can afford it, get one. Otherwise you’ll be spending hours in train stations (in particular, Rome’s Termini and Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) waiting in line, waiting in line, waiting in line, and finally buying tickets. Nice to have the freedom of the pass and jump on when you want (assuming there are non-reserved seats). It’s NOT just a matter of cost.

I have never spent more than five minutes in line at Termini. Now that they have ticket machines, you don’t have to spend any time in line. While the convenience may be worth something, buying a Eurail pass for travel in Italy might mean that 70% of the cost of the pass would be spent on convenience and 30% on transport. Barbara

Response:

I have never spent more than five minutes in line at Termini. Now that they have ticket machines, you don’t have to spend any time in line. While the convenience may be worth something, buying a Eurail pass for travel in Italy might mean that 70% of the cost of the pass would be spent on convenience and 30% on transport.

I bought my first and only Eurailpass in 1961, for $125, good 3 months, first class. Even then, the only way I made it pay was to be constantly on the move. Strictly speaking, I’m not eligible for Eurailpasses anymore because I live in Europe. I do buy 1/2 fare subscriptions if I’m going to be in a country awhile. Notably in Belgium. (Switzerland 1-month passes aren’t a good by IMO, but 2-year passes are a bargain. You just need a Swiss address.)

Response:

I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. PS if any one has been to these citties and can recomend things to see or places to avoid – or for that matter other citties to see, your input is welcome Thank you

The general advice is to compare the price of a rail pass to the cost of individual tickets.  Secondarily, I for one would pay more for a pass just so I did not have to bother with the act of buying tickets. Sometimes ticket lines are long, and it is really nice to be able to just hop on a train. All you destinations are great.  If you’re going past Florence, you should take in the Uffizzi art gallery in a day.  In Pisa, do not miss the baptistry – stick around long enough, and they close the doors and give a singing performance – very nice, as the acoustics are so perfect that one’s voice carries for a long time, enabling one to sing with oneself in harmony. Local trains mean trains that are slower and stop at every little town. This is different from the fast express trains that go to main hubs. The trains in Germany are great, in that there are little kiosks everywhere where you put in your departure and arrival place and time, and it tells you all your training options.  I remember clearly in one instance where I could leave an hour later on an inter-city express (ICE) than on a local train, but get there an hour earlier than the local train.  Typically, to get to smaller town, you take an express train to a hub city and a local train from there.  For example, to get to Pisa you’ll probably have to go through Florence. Dan — Dan Stephenson Grand Tour photos and video: http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda

Response:

You can get schedules on http://www.trenitalia.it

I have found this site to be both difficult and sometimes not up to date. The German European timetables at http://www.bahn.de/ are the best Phil

Response:

…..Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow)

Not in my experience (latest use of Centraal Station was in September) Phil

Response:

local train.  Typically, to get to smaller town, you take an express train to a hub city and a local train from there.  For example, to get to Pisa you’ll probably have to go through Florence.

Pisa is on the main line Genova-Rome!  I would suggest anyone travelling by Eurail-Interrail to buy a good rail-map, perhaps Thomas Cooks Rail Map of Europe including close to all European  railwaylines.          L.P

Response:

 On some types of trains, a group traveling together can get a group discount (resulting in one ticket being issued for the group, rather than a bunch of individual tickets). — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Discounts for groups traveling together in Italian trains have changed recently and are much less convenient than used to be. Now to get a smaller discount the group has to be at least 6 passengers traveling together to get a 20% discount (10% on Eurostar Italia) or 2 adults traveling with one children under 12 yo.(in this case the children will not pay). Not as good as before when there was a 30% discount for any group of 3 to 5 passengers traveling together. Regards Elio

Response:

 On some types of trains, a group traveling together can get a group discount (resulting in one ticket being issued for the group, rather than a bunch of individual tickets). — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

Discounts for groups traveling together in Italian trains have changed recently and are much less convenient than used to be. Now to get a smaller discount the group has to be at least 6 passengers traveling together to get a 20% discount (10% on Eurostar Italia) or 2 adults traveling with one children under 12 yo.(in this case the children will not pay). Not as good as before when there was a 30% discount for any group of 3 to 5 passengers traveling together. Elio

Response:

I have never spent more than five minutes in line at Termini.

Hm! If it wasn’t you, Barbara, I’d be tempted to reply that you must not go there much. When I’ve been there in the summer, the lines were literally hours long. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

…..Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) Not in my experience (latest use of Centraal Station was in September)

It’s true, it varies by time of year. Summer can be very, very bad. Made the mistake of once relying on that station for validating my Eurail pass before first use–five hour wait. Me and my travelling companions spent lots of time in the McDonalds upstairs. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

…..Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) Not in my experience (latest use of Centraal Station was in September)

Went in there (the international area upstairs) a few days ago and there was a 45-minute wait. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

Response:

The general advice is to compare the price of a rail pass to the cost of individual tickets.  

With the caveat to be sure to get the realistic prices. The point-to-point fares shown on almost all travel agent sites, even RailEurope, are inflated and are only for certain higer fares, rather like only quoting the full coach fare on an airplane. For instance, I just did a quick look at Rick Steves’ web site where he has a map showing fares between many points for comparison with the cost of a pass (which he sells). Steve’s indicates a fare of EUR 105 from Berlin to Frankfurt while the DB web site shows the fare as EUR 86, and that fare is without any of the available discounts or Bahncards. RailEurope gives this fare as $96 (EUR 100). For fares inside a given country the country’s national rail web site is the best source of fare information, although some can be a bit difficult even in the English pages (if they have English pages). Sweden seems to have made a point of making it difficult to get fares from afar. On the other hand, the Finnish rail site is a model of lucidity (although I don’t seem to be able to properly download its fare calcultor pages recently). Trips between countries can be difficult to ferret out. Some national web sites do give fares for international fares originating in that country, e.g., the French rail site gives fares from inside Paris to other countries, and will even price out journeys requiring a change of trains in the other country. Some "cheating" is requirted at some sites; e.g., at the French site pretend you are actually trying to book a ticket and you will pick up the ticket inside France. Secondarily, I for one would pay more for a pass just so I did not have to bother with the act of buying tickets. Sometimes ticket lines are long, and it is really nice to be able to just hop on a train.

If the pass will only cost a bit more than point-to-point fares, go for the pass. There is a freedom you get from not worrying about having to dig out some more euros and wondering if your budget can afford it. Also, with a pass you are likely to make more rail journeys than you anticipated in making your calcs, so that in the end you may actually save rail fares with a pass and have a better time. The full Eurailpass is good for this sort of travel, while the flexipasses (x days in y weeks) may have you wondering whether you can afford to use up a day on the little side trip you’d like to make.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I plan on traveling for 2 weeks in Europe and plan to go from Austria (Innsbruck) to Italy (Probably Rome, Pisa and/or  Turin) the Travel to Paris and Amsterdam, finally ending up in Munich.  I hear that in  Italy the local rali service is good and it’s not worth getting a Euro Rail pass for there. Is this true and is it then really worth getting the pass at all or will the local trains do?  Also what do they mean by local trains? Thanks in advance for any advice. It depends–if you can afford it, get one. Otherwise you’ll be spending hours in train stations (in particular, Rome’s Termini and Amsterdam’s Centraal Station, of the ones you indicate, these are very slow) waiting in line, waiting in line, waiting in line, and finally buying tickets. Nice to have the freedom of the pass and jump on when you want (assuming there are non-reserved seats). It’s NOT just a matter of cost.

It is not necessary to buy rail tickets in the train station. You can buy them at travel agents. Several days ahead of time. Also if the line is long in Roma’s Termini station, I just go to the travel agent inside the station. Marianne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The general advice is to compare the price of a rail pass to the cost of individual tickets. With the caveat to be sure to get the realistic prices. The point-to-point fares shown on almost all travel agent sites, even RailEurope, are inflated and are only for certain higer fares, rather like only quoting the full coach fare on an airplane. For instance, I just did a quick look at Rick Steves’ web site where he has a map showing fares between many points for comparison with the cost of a pass (which he sells). Steve’s indicates a fare of EUR 105 from Berlin to Frankfurt while the DB web site shows the fare as EUR 86, and that fare is without any of the available discounts or Bahncards. RailEurope gives this fare as $96 (EUR 100). For fares inside a given country the country’s national rail web site is the best source of fare information, although some can be a bit difficult even in the English pages (if they have English pages). Sweden seems to have made a point of making it difficult to get fares from afar. On the other hand, the Finnish rail site is a model of lucidity (although I don’t seem to be able to properly download its fare calcultor pages recently). Trips between countries can be difficult to ferret out. Some national web sites do give fares for international fares originating in that country, e.g., the French rail site gives fares from inside Paris to other countries, and will even price out journeys requiring a change of trains in the other country. Some "cheating" is requirted at some sites; e.g., at the French site pretend you are actually trying to book a ticket and you will pick up the ticket inside France. Secondarily, I for one would pay more for a pass just so I did not have to bother with the act of buying tickets. Sometimes ticket lines are long, and it is really nice to be able to just hop on a train. If the pass will only cost a bit more than point-to-point fares, go for the pass. There is a freedom you get from not worrying about having to dig out some more euros and wondering if your budget can afford it. Also, with a pass you are likely to make more rail journeys than you anticipated in making your calcs, so that in the end you may actually save rail fares with a pass and have a better time. The full Eurailpass is good for this sort of travel, while the flexipasses (x days in y weeks) may have you wondering whether you can afford to use up a day on the little side trip you’d like to make.     *       Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow         *     * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

As you all are much more informed on this than I, may I run something past you, please? In early March, wife and I want to train it from Lugano, Switzerland to Venice.  Two days later train it to Salzburg, Austria.  In reading the thread, it sounds like you all recommend buying the tickets on site instead of a pre-bought pass.  Am I correct in my assumption? Plus, I am, unfortunately, only an English speaker.  Would anyone know if there is enough "English" around in Lugano and Venice train stations for me to walk in and figure this out fairly easily?  We will be looking for the highest speed trains, as time is an issue.  We have been to Zurich and Geneva and gotten along quite well.  Thanks. — Rich www.headachedrugs.com

Response:

In early March, wife and I want to train it from Lugano, Switzerland to Venice.  Two days later train it to Salzburg, Austria.  In reading the thread, it sounds like you all recommend buying the tickets on site instead of a pre-bought pass.  Am I correct in my assumption?

No need to calculate as those rather short trips are by far less expensive with buying tickets on site compared with railpasses. Plus, I am, unfortunately, only an English speaker.  Would anyone know if there is enough "English" around in Lugano and Venice train stations for me to walk in and figure this out fairly easily?  We will be looking for the highest speed trains, as time is an issue.  We have been to Zurich and Geneva and gotten along quite well.  Thanks.

Don’t think there are any problems using  English (I’ve experience of Venice) If not be prepared to make your request written. There are no high speed trains on those routes as they are through mountains but they’re real scenic.      L.P

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Question:

I am trying to figure a budget to travel western europe from Canada. Most of the travel in the Benlux region. I would like an extended tour about 2 months staying in one place like Amsterdam. I dont mind camping.  In amsterdam there is a place called Zeeburg caming that is about 4 euros per night per person plus there may be a total cost of 7.50 euro per night.  Which is reasonable. The exchange to the canadian for a euro means that to get 1 euro you have to spend 1.46 canadian.  Essential it means 46% added to the euro price and you get the cost in canadian. Here is a past from currency exchange: xe.com  Universal Currency Converter

Question:

How can the Eurostar possibly compete?

Because Eurostar is faster (3h max. direct from city center to city center) and on time, whereas planes are allways late, and you have to transbord at least thrice. JL.

Response:

The cheapest return fare on the Eurostar, from London to Brussels is something like 90 pounds – and even that is difficult to get, with more common fares being well above that. On the other hand, you can easily get return airfares for around 50 pounds with many of the airlines.

Good question, why IS it so expensive? On the one hand, Eurostar is far more convenient, city center to center. But I’ve seen return airfares for ridiculously low prices like 12 pounds. I remember when Eurostar drove channel hydrofoils out of business; now I wonder if it’s in danger from cheap flights. I’ve always assumed their prices were so high because they have such a huge debt load to pay back, and that they can get away with it because travellers love the convenience. But let’s hope those prices go down. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

The cheapest return fare on the Eurostar, from London to Brussels is something like 90 pounds – and even that is difficult to get, with more common fares being well above that. On the other hand, you can easily get return airfares for around 50 pounds with many of the airlines. How can the Eurostar possibly compete?

Just my .02, but in addition to the convenience of city-center to city-center transport, there may still be some of the "tourist attraction" factor still working.  My wife was adamant about taking Eurostar on our last trip, just for the experience of using the channel tunnel and high speed rail.   Gordon

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You have to add to the advertised airfare (in the UK at least) airport taxes, plus the cost of transport to the airport, plus the time and hassle factor… PJW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How can the Eurostar possibly compete?

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The cheapest return fare on the Eurostar, from London to Brussels is something like 90 pounds – and even that is difficult to get, with more common fares being well above that. On the other hand, you can easily get return airfares for around 50 pounds with many of the airlines. Good question, why IS it so expensive? On the one hand, Eurostar is

It’s expensive because of the high fare E* has to pay to pass through the Channel tunnel. Regards, David

Response:

Just my .02, but in addition to the convenience of city-center to city-center transport, there may still be some of the "tourist attraction" factor still working.  My wife was adamant about taking Eurostar on our last trip, just for the experience of using the channel tunnel and high speed rail.  

I think this is true, but there’s no doubt in my mind that Eurostar is overpriced. It’s bad enough that the cheapest 14 day advance return you can get is

Question:

I suggest you contact Rail Europe at 1-800-438-7245; they are the main dealer for European trains and they will gladly give you the information you need.  They also sell tickets, passes, etc.  They have a website, but with your questions, it might be easier to phone them: www.raileurope.com. Danielle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated.

According to their web site, their passes are valid in Denmark, France, Holland and Germany. So your only problem is Prague, so your only problem is going to be Prague.  You could get a pass and then get yourself as close as possible to the Czech Republic and buy a ticket to Prague. The Saver Flexi plan allows you 10 days of travel in a two month period for $556 (US) . The Eurail pass gives you 15 days of unlimited travel for a few dollars less, but you would be wasting your consecutive travel days in Prague.

Response:

I suggest you contact Rail Europe at 1-800-438-7245; they are the main dealer for European trains and they will gladly give you the information you need.  They also sell tickets, passes, etc.  They have a website, but with your questions, it might be easier to phone them: www.raileurope.com.

Just don’t believe their quotes of the cost of point-to-point tickets. You can get much better prices for those in Europe. Barbara

Response:

Don’t buy through Rail Europe because their prices are grossly inflated. Barbara in CT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suggest you contact Rail Europe at 1-800-438-7245; they are the main dealer for European trains and they will gladly give you the information you need.  They also sell tickets, passes, etc.  They have a website, but with your questions, it might be easier to phone them: www.raileurope.com. Danielle I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. It is true that no single pass covers all of thsoe destinations and Prague. Only the more expensive Eurailpasses cover Copenhagen along with Paris and Amsterdam. However, Copenhagen is really a fairly short trip from Germany, which is included in the Europass, and I would think that a point-to-point ticket for Copenhagen would be the most effective means of travel there. Likewise for Prague; there is also a Prague Excursion pass good from the Czech frontier to Prague.

But do check whether it’s worthwhile buying a pass or extension in the Czech Republic, as ordinary public fares are very inexpensive. I think the websites at http://idos.datis.cdrail.cz/ and http://www.vlak-bus.cz/ give fares (in Czech crowns, Kc) as well as times: the border stations to look for are Decin on the Berlin — Prague line (Bad Schandau is the station of the German side of the border), Domazlice on the Munich — Nuremburg — Prague route (Furth-im-Wald on the German side), Cheb on the Frankfurt — Prague line (Marktredwitz on the German side), and Breclav on the Prague — Vienna line (nowhere very significant before Vienna on the Austrian side!) — Arwel Parry http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/

Response:

I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated.

It is true that no single pass covers all of thsoe destinations and Prague. Only the more expensive Eurailpasses cover Copenhagen along with Paris and Amsterdam. However, Copenhagen is really a fairly short trip from Germany, which is included in the Europass, and I would think that a point-to-point ticket for Copenhagen would be the most effective means of travel there. Likewise for Prague; there is also a Prague Excursion pass good from the Czech frontier to Prague. See http://www.railpass.com/eurail/passes/ for much detailed info. Depending on how you much train travel you will do, as well as whether you will be forced by your age to buy a first class pass, a pass may not be in order at all. WARNING: Do not believe the point-to-point fares given on sites like Railpass and RailEurope; they are wildly inflated and do not show discount fares you may easily qualify for. —     *      Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow       *     ******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******

Response:

I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Unless things have changed recently, Czechoslovakia is not part of Eurail. Consequently, there are no combinations of Eurail passes (including Euro passes) that will serve Prague. The more-limited Euro passes (unlike full Eurail passes) don’t cover Scandinavia. There are separate Czech and Scandinavia passes, so you could conceivably paste together a collection of passes that would cover your entire route. This would likely be expensive compared to point-to-point tickets. You could buy a Eurail Selectpass for France, Benelux, and Germany, plus tickets from the borders of your pass territory to and from Copenhagen and Prague. I’m not sure how the cost of that would stack up against that of point-to-point tickets. Good luck!

Response:

I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Unless things have changed recently, Czechoslovakia is not part of Eurail. Consequently, there are no combinations of Eurail passes (including Euro passes) that will serve Prague. The more-limited Euro passes (unlike full Eurail passes) don’t cover Scandinavia. There are separate Czech and Scandinavia passes, so you could conceivably paste together a collection of passes that would cover your entire route. This would likely be expensive compared to point-to-point tickets. You could buy a Eurail Selectpass for France, Benelux, and Germany, plus tickets from the borders of your pass territory to and from Copenhagen and Prague. I’m not sure how the cost of that would stack up against that of point-to-point tickets. Good luck!

Response:

I suggest you contact Rail Europe at 1-800-438-7245; they are the main dealer for European trains and they will gladly give you the information you need.  They also sell tickets, passes, etc.  They have a website, but with your questions, it might be easier to phone them: www.raileurope.com. Danielle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated.

It is true that no single pass covers all of thsoe destinations and Prague. Only the more expensive Eurailpasses cover Copenhagen along with Paris and Amsterdam. However, Copenhagen is really a fairly short trip from Germany, which is included in the Europass, and I would think that a point-to-point ticket for Copenhagen would be the most effective means of travel there. Likewise for Prague; there is also a Prague Excursion pass good from the Czech frontier to Prague. See http://www.railpass.com/eurail/passes/ for much detailed info. Depending on how you much train travel you will do, as well as whether you will be forced by your age to buy a first class pass, a pass may not be in order at all. WARNING: Do not believe the point-to-point fares given on sites like Railpass and RailEurope; they are wildly inflated and do not show discount fares you may easily qualify for. —     *      Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow       *     ******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******

Response:

Don’t buy through Rail Europe because their prices are grossly inflated. Barbara in CT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I suggest you contact Rail Europe at 1-800-438-7245; they are the main dealer for European trains and they will gladly give you the information you need.  They also sell tickets, passes, etc.  They have a website, but with your questions, it might be easier to phone them: www.raileurope.com. Danielle I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated. It is true that no single pass covers all of thsoe destinations and Prague. Only the more expensive Eurailpasses cover Copenhagen along with Paris and Amsterdam. However, Copenhagen is really a fairly short trip from Germany, which is included in the Europass, and I would think that a point-to-point ticket for Copenhagen would be the most effective means of travel there. Likewise for Prague; there is also a Prague Excursion pass good from the Czech frontier to Prague.

But do check whether it’s worthwhile buying a pass or extension in the Czech Republic, as ordinary public fares are very inexpensive. I think the websites at http://idos.datis.cdrail.cz/ and http://www.vlak-bus.cz/ give fares (in Czech crowns, Kc) as well as times: the border stations to look for are Decin on the Berlin — Prague line (Bad Schandau is the station of the German side of the border), Domazlice on the Munich — Nuremburg — Prague route (Furth-im-Wald on the German side), Cheb on the Frankfurt — Prague line (Marktredwitz on the German side), and Breclav on the Prague — Vienna line (nowhere very significant before Vienna on the Austrian side!) — Arwel Parry http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/

Response:

I am traveling in Europe this November and need some advice on a euro rail pass.  The cities I will be visiting are Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Prague, and Frankfurt.  The information I have read so far indicates that there is not a single pass that visits all of these destinations.  First of all, I need to know if that is true and second does this mean I will need to purchase point-to-point tickets instead. Any advice would be appreciated.

According to their web site, their passes are valid in Denmark, France, Holland and Germany. So your only problem is Prague, so your only problem is going to be Prague.  You could get a pass and then get yourself as close as possible to the Czech Republic and buy a ticket to Prague. The Saver Flexi plan allows you 10 days of travel in a two month period for $556 (US) . The Eurail pass gives you 15 days of unlimited travel for a few dollars less, but you would be wasting your consecutive travel days in Prague.

Response:

I suggest you contact Rail Europe at 1-800-438-7245; they are the main dealer for European trains and they will gladly give you the information you need.  They also sell tickets, passes, etc.  They have a website, but with your questions, it might be easier to phone them: www.raileurope.com.

Just don’t believe their quotes of the cost of point-to-point tickets. You can get much better prices for those in Europe. Barbara

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I’m headed back to Paris for ten days in April after my first trip just last September.  I saw most of the touristy stuff the first time (even in only four days); this trip I want to explore Paris a bit more plus perhaps visit another city or two as well. I have questions about several things: – where to stay in Paris this time? – what else to see in Paris? – where else to go besides Paris (many choices, obviously)? First of all:  Hotel. I’ll be going alone.  I’d like to find something comfortable, centrally located (near Metro of course), fairly quiet, not too expensive, but not necessarily charming (probably not a B&B).  I’m not particular about which arrondissment at this point.  I would like a place with WC and shower and also a good-sized bed as I’m tall.  I have been to Jack’s web site, but there are SO many choices.  Jack (or anyone else), do any hotels come to mind that might suit me well?  I’d like to limit the cost to about 350 FF per night if I can. What else to see and do?  Obviously that depends much on my interests. For one, I do not drink wine and do not care for "fine dining" (especially not alone), so I doubt I’ll be worrying much about food. Nor do I care much for museums.  I went to the Louvre last visit and might try another museum this visit but one in Paris is probably enough. I’m more interested in browsing through the city some more, taking lots of pictures (hopefully the April weather will cooperate!), and just exploring in general.  Last visit I enjoyed the parcs and gardens – I loved the Parc Monceau and Jardin du Luxenbourg.  I would love to see more of them!  Versailles is also on high on my list.  But I plan to walk and take the Metro/RER everywhere and just explore. Can anyone suggest obscure (hopefully picturesque) destinations in or around Paris that I might visit?  Last time I quite enjoyed the Cimetiere du Pere Lachaise for example.  Then again, I also enjoyed the bustle of the very-touristy Latin Quarter… Finally, where else should I visit outside of Paris?  (I do have several travel guides and am currently browsing through them.)  I love train travel and would love to explore one other major city (what else would I have time for in only ten – nine, really – days?).  Some have suggested visiting some of the other French cities – Lyon, Rouen, Deauville, etc. – easily reached by train, I imagine.  I might also consider going south to the Riviera to get some sun or maybe even going all the way down to Barcelona (probably by air) or north to Amsterdam.  Typically, how desirable is it to visit any of these places in mid-April? Last trip was planned with only a few days notice; this time I have a few more weeks and look forward to your suggestions! Thanks, Andrew —

 http://www.bizave.com               The Movie Pundit – http://www.moviepundit.com

Hi Andrew. In 1997 we stayed in a very modest hotel in St. Honorre street by the same name of St. Honorre. The location was wonderful and although it is very centrally located, the street itself is relatively quiet. If it is still there, it may be what you are looking for. As for a trip to another city and area, I would suggest going to Dijon and the Burgundy area near it. Should be a short train drive from Paris and a charming place. Good luck. Moshe

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One of my favorites is the Saint Denis Basilica. This is the church where the kings and queens of France were buried.

Hi, one of my favorite recommendations too. since it’s technically not in Paris a lot of the guides (like the micheline green guide to paris) don’t list it. ttyl akia —

Question:

Would the original poster say how much the drop off fee would be for his original itinerary? Then we could judge the alternatives. Thanks, Michael

good point — we have paid nothing several times and as much as $50 dollars other times when making cross border drop offs — hardly a big deal in these cases

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Perhaps you experienced travelers can suggest a way(s) to avoid a rental car drop charge for a forthcoming trip. I fly into Milan early in May, do three weeks touring in Italy, then proceed to Nice, up the heart of France, ending flying from Paris early in June. Consider traveling by rail. That way,  you get to relax as  you travel from one area to another and you get to chat with people sitting near you on the train. This, of course, totally avoids any rental car drop off charges, dealing with parking a car, etc.

and the ability to go where you want to go and do what you want to do and explore little villages and out of the way towns and that monastery you always wanted to drop by to view their murals etc etc — nothing beats a car in Europe — for what it is good for — there are trips which make sense by train and by car — they aren’t substitutes for each other

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Is there a way to drop the car just before crossing into France, rent a car across the border to drop in Paris: or, do the tour in Italy, return to Milan, return the car, train to ????? in France, then rent a car in France.

I solved the the same problem once by taking the train to a little town called Chiasso, just over the Swiss border, and renting a car there. It’s a very short train ride from Milan to Chiasso (half an hour?), and I was able to rent a car there for HALF of what it would have cost me in Milan. I was able to return the car in Germany without a drop-off fee, perhaps you’ll be able to do the same in France. I did this through Avis, you might check with them, I don’t remember if any other rental companies had facilities in Chiasso.

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I would drop off the car in Milan and take the train to Paris, or wherever in France you want to go. You will benefit by not needing as much insurance and getting a better rate from the second rental assuming that you need it. How does this help?  It looks like he wants to drive all over France and Italy. I think after he drives away from Milan, he is not going back anywhere near Milan.

Maybe drop off in Ventimiglio, train 5 km to Menton and rent again there. Years ago Avis allowed me to rent in southern Spain and drop off in Italy without charge.  The rental agent suggested that in Madrid I pop into the Avis office and ask whether they had an Italian car that needed returning. — (613) 526-4786;  759B Springland, Ottawa, ON K1V 6L9 Canada    "Eliza Doolittle’s honeymoon: ‘How nice of you to let me come.’"

Response:

Perhaps you experienced travelers can suggest a way(s) to avoid a rental car drop charge for a forthcoming trip. I fly into Milan early in May, do three weeks touring in Italy, then proceed to Nice, up the heart of France, ending flying from Paris early in June.

Try dropping in Genoa then train to Nice, pick up new rental there.  Or check for other rental drop off locations with whatever company you go with, San Remo perhaps?  Just a thought. Mike

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Is there a way to drop the car just before crossing into France, rent a car across the border to drop in Paris: or, do the tour in Italy, return to Milan, return the car, train to ????? in France, then rent a car in France.

I think two different rentals are a good idea, depending how your trip breaks down day-wise vs. week-wise (e.g., two four-day rentals might cost more than one eight-day rental with a drop).  But another advantage to the two rental idea is that driving all that way from Italy through France is going to be long, boring, and stressful.  A car in the Nice area can be a real hassle as well–most people don’t want or need one there.  Consider doing longer stretches by train, tooling around the Riviera by train and bus, and picking up a car just to the extent that you need it in France (the stretch from the Riviera to Paris can even be arduous by car if you’re just taking the motorway, and very time-consuming if you’re not).  The planning process to balance in detail car/train,  long-haul/short-haul, public-trans/private-trans,  and other costs/benefits will be significant, but will be well worth your while.

Response:

Would the original poster say how much the drop off fee would be for his original itinerary? Then we could judge the alternatives. Thanks, Michael

Response:

Perhaps you experienced travelers can suggest a way(s) to avoid a rental car drop charge for a forthcoming trip. I fly into Milan early in May, do three weeks touring in Italy, then proceed to Nice, up the heart of France, ending flying from Paris early in June.

Consider traveling by rail. That way,  you get to relax as  you travel from one area to another and you get to chat with people sitting near you on the train. This, of course, totally avoids any rental car drop off charges, dealing with parking a car, etc.

Response:

For sure, to avoid the drop charge as well as to take advantage of lower French vs. Italian car rental rates, I’d drop the car in Milan and train over to Nice (the most efficient IC train is 4h, 40m from Milano-Nice). theory one could get off the train & pick up a car in Menton, a gorgeous little town marking the entry to the French Riviera, I don’t know what the car availability situation is in Menton, and Nice’s airport, where you’d expect to find a host of car rental options, is just about a 30-minute car drive/completion of the train journey west of Menton (via Monaco).

our drop fee was $50 dollars — dropping the car and then taking a train would have eaten that up in a heartbeat.  And given the fact that renting a car for a longer time is usually cheaper, I’d be pretty careful about checking out the actual costs before piecing something together like this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps you experienced travelers can suggest a way(s) to avoid a rental car drop charge for a forthcoming trip. I fly into Milan early in May, do three weeks touring in Italy, then proceed to Nice, up the heart of France, ending flying from Paris early in June. The pick up and drop points are "fixed" due to "freebie air miles". So far I have not found any rental agency willing to allow me to pick up in Milan and drop in Paris. Or if they do offer to do so, the price is very expensive. Is there a way to drop the car just before crossing into France, rent a car across the border to drop in Paris: or, do the tour in Italy, return to Milan, return the car, train to ????? in France, then rent a car in France. Any suggestion would be appreciated, and thanks in advance. budhop

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the OP was unclear as to his needs in France. If he needs to drive from the Italian border you are probably right, but if he is basically going point to point  he may benefit from the break in rental (especially when one looks at the insurance saving on not renting in Italy)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would drop off the car in Milan and take the train to Paris, or wherever in France you want to go. You will benefit by not needing as much insurance and getting a better rate from the second rental assuming that you need it. How does this help?  It looks like he wants to drive all over France and Italy. I think after he drives away from Milan, he is not going back anywhere near Milan. Michael

Response:

For sure, to avoid the drop charge as well as to take advantage of lower French vs. Italian car rental rates, I’d drop the car in Milan and train over to Nice (the most efficient IC train is 4h, 40m from Milano-Nice). theory one could get off the train & pick up a car in Menton, a gorgeous little town marking the entry to the French Riviera, I don’t know what the car availability situation is in Menton, and Nice’s airport, where you’d expect to find a host of car rental options, is just about a 30-minute car drive/completion of the train journey west of Menton (via Monaco).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps you experienced travelers can suggest a way(s) to avoid a rental car drop charge for a forthcoming trip. I fly into Milan early in May, do three weeks touring in Italy, then proceed to Nice, up the heart of France, ending flying from Paris early in June. The pick up and drop points are "fixed" due to "freebie air miles". So far I have not found any rental agency willing to allow me to pick up in Milan and drop in Paris. Or if they do offer to do so, the price is very expensive. Is there a way to drop the car just before crossing into France, rent a car across the border to drop in Paris: or, do the tour in Italy, return to Milan, return the car, train to ????? in France, then rent a car in France. Any suggestion would be appreciated, and thanks in advance. budhop

Response:

I would drop off the car in Milan and take the train to Paris, or wherever in France you want to go. You will benefit by not needing as much insurance and getting a better rate from the second rental assuming that you need it.

    I would second this suggestion.  You could easily go from Milan to Nice in less than a day I would think and Just start up again with a France based rental car.  Truth is you could probably find a place even closer to France at which to drop your car, pick up a train, and head to Nice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perhaps you experienced travelers can suggest a way(s) to avoid a rental car drop charge for a forthcoming trip. I fly into Milan early in May, do three weeks touring in Italy, then proceed to Nice, up the heart of France, ending flying from Paris early in June. The pick up and drop points are "fixed" due to "freebie air miles". So far I have not found any rental agency willing to allow me to pick up in Milan and drop in Paris. Or if they do offer to do so, the price is very expensive. Is there a way to drop the car just before crossing into France, rent a car across the border to drop in Paris: or, do the tour in Italy, return to Milan, return the car, train to ????? in France, then rent a car in France. Any suggestion would be appreciated, and thanks in advance. budhop

Response:

I was told last year by a visiting German that we should have rented in Italy because it would have been cheaper yet.

Your visiting German was either joking with you or had too much schnapps. Italy is one of the most expensive countries in Europe to rent a car, and purchase of insurance from car rental companies is mandatory (its a racket)…which adds to the already salty prices.  You did right, Germany has traditionally been one of the lowest priced countries to rent cars. Whenever possible, rent in Germany. Happy travels, Mike

Response:

Perhaps you experienced travelers can suggest a way(s) to avoid a rental car drop charge for a forthcoming trip. I fly into Milan early in May, do three weeks touring in Italy, then proceed to Nice, up the heart of France, ending flying from Paris early in June. The pick up and drop points are

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class.  We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class).  I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe.  If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet.  Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam.  Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet.  Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc. I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment.  When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment.  They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard I liked second class more, because you are not alone in first with all the other Americans. You actually get to meet some of the people in the coutries you are visiting. HI,

 For long trips I would recommend 1st class. It’s more comfortable, less people and sometimes even safer. 2nd class smells like urine, is dirty but it is cheaper; ok for short trips. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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rec.travel.europe geschriwen: 2nd class smells like urine, is dirty Where did you find that?

Not here, that’s for sure! Although the 2nd class compartments on CFL trains tend to get rather crowded and there isn’t a lot of legroom compared with 1st, which also benefits from the carpeted floors, engine noise sound proofing etc. Not bad for a 50c per day supplement! — ricardo     icq# 51047940     gsm# +352091511692 "Lieft d’Liewen, sitt frai!"

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Mar 2000 07:49:28 GMT an der Newsgroup rec.travel.europe geschriwen: Maybe you’re remembering the NY city subway. I’ve always travelled 2nd class, even on long trips, and never experienced a smell of urine.

I tend to find First a more attractive proposition, but the deal doesn’t seem so sweet when one considers that it costs between 150% and 250% of the price of Second. Otoh here within Lux I travel First because the supplement amounts to 50c per day on a one month pass. (That’s what I term not bad value.) — ricardo     icq# 51047940     gsm# +352091511692 "Lieft d’Liewen, sitt frai!"

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2nd class smells like urine, is dirty

Where did you find that? — Michael Forrest

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class. We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class). I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe. If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet. Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam. Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet. Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc. I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment. When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment. They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard I liked second class more, because you are not alone in first with all the other Americans. You actually get to meet some of the people in the coutries you are visiting. HI, For long trips I would recommend 1st class. It’s more comfortable, less people and sometimes even safer. 2nd class smells like urine, is dirty but it is cheaper; ok for short trips.

Maybe you’re remembering the NY city subway. I’ve always travelled 2nd class, even on long trips, and never experienced a smell of urine. — Barbara Vaughan Princeton University email my first intitial my last name at my university dot edu (Or reply to dejanews email address) Before you buy.

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There is often a difference in the amount of room available for luggage, but this is changing.  First Class seldom has enough room for a big suitcase, Second Class on some trains has good luggage storage at the end of the car and often space between the seat backs for a medium sized suitcase. But I took a night train 2nd Class from Florence to Geneva last week and it appeared to be an old First Class carriage — individual compartments seating six people.  So there is no telling.

Response:

There is often a difference in the amount of room available for luggage, but this is changing.  First Class seldom has enough room for a big suitcase, Second Class on some trains has good luggage storage at the end of the car and often space between the seat backs for a medium sized suitcase. But I took a night train 2nd Class from Florence to Geneva last week and it appeared to be an old First Class carriage — individual compartments seating six people.  So there is no telling.

This seems to be a difference between compartment stock and open stock rather than between first and second class. Compartment stock is found less frequently (virtually extinct in the UK) although where it does exist it remains perhaps more common in first than in second class. First class open carriages generally have reasoanble luggage provision. Alan Harrison

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Thanks, mav

 From what I’ve seen, fewer kids who might be lound in 1st class. Although the more interesting crowd is in 2nd class.     Don Paris travelogues: http://www.visitparis.com

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st)

I always buy second class tickets. If there is a problem in second class (too crowded, too noisy, too hoi polloi) you can always upgrade your ticket on the spot by paying the difference in price plus a small fee to the conductor. — Barbara Vaughan Princeton University email my first intitial my last name at my university dot edu (Or reply to dejanews email address) Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class.  We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class).  I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe.  If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet.  Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam.  Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet.  Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc. I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment.  When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment.  They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard

I liked second class more, because you are not alone in first with all the other Americans. You actually get to meet some of the people in the coutries you are visiting.

Response:

I was 27 the first time around in Europe, so I went with a 1st class ticket. Yes, you’ll probably meet more people in 2nd class.  You’ll also probably run into more screaming kids, all-night talkers, and others. I liked 1st class.  If I wanted to meet more people, I’d just stroll down to 2nd class.  When I wanted to shut-off the world, I’d close the door in my (usually) vacant cabin in first class, draw the curtain, and fade off to sleep.  I had my fair share of *excellent* conversations in 2nd class. I didn’t run into a lot of frisbee tossers during my occasional travels in 2nd class.  The majority of the people that I would run into in first class were business travelers who weren’t usually interested in talking to the backpack-laden American sitting across from them. Just a sidenote – thought I know I’ll get some flack for it…I met a lot more women in 2nd class. Enjoy your trip! Kris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class.  We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class).  I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe. If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet.  Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam.  Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet.  Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc. I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment.  When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment.  They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard

Before you buy.

Response:

Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Bob’s EuroPage http://home.swbell.net/curtisrg If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st)

For TGVs, even though a second class is far more comfortable than a plane’s economy class, first class is _really_ comfortable: wide seats, lots of room for your legs, etc… It is really significant and I usually take it for a $40 or so price difference. Another difference with the plane is that first class _is_ affordable when you have to pay for the trip and not your company.

Response:

Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Bob’s EuroPage http://home.swbell.net/curtisrg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Thanks, mav Before you buy.

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st)

1st gives more room –  both in terms of the spacing of seats and how full the seating may be. Think Business and Economy on airlines but with a lot less difference in price and somewhat less in comfort. — Michael Forrest

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob

Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class.  We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class).  I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe.  If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet.  Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam.  Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet.  Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc.   I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment.  When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment.  They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Thanks, mav Before you buy.

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st)

It differs per country. 1st class is more comfortable, though in some countries the differences are minimal (Luxembourg, the Netherlands). Usually in 2nd class the seats are 2+2 in a row, while it’s 2+1 in 1st class (or with seperate compartments: 8 seats in 2nd, 6 in 1st class). 1st class is usually not so busy as 2nd, that’s an important reason for people to travel 1st class. On some long distance trains (e.g. Eurostar) a free meal is included in the price for 1st class. BTW not all trains offer 1st class. GreetZ, David

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Thanks, mav Before you buy.

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st)

It differs per country. 1st class is more comfortable, though in some countries the differences are minimal (Luxembourg, the Netherlands). Usually in 2nd class the seats are 2+2 in a row, while it’s 2+1 in 1st class (or with seperate compartments: 8 seats in 2nd, 6 in 1st class). 1st class is usually not so busy as 2nd, that’s an important reason for people to travel 1st class. On some long distance trains (e.g. Eurostar) a free meal is included in the price for 1st class. BTW not all trains offer 1st class. GreetZ, David

Response:

Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Bob’s EuroPage http://home.swbell.net/curtisrg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Thanks, mav Before you buy.

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st)

1st gives more room –  both in terms of the spacing of seats and how full the seating may be. Think Business and Economy on airlines but with a lot less difference in price and somewhat less in comfort. — Michael Forrest

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob

Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class.  We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class).  I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe.  If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet.  Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam.  Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet.  Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc.   I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment.  When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment.  They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard

Response:

Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Bob’s EuroPage http://home.swbell.net/curtisrg If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st)

For TGVs, even though a second class is far more comfortable than a plane’s economy class, first class is _really_ comfortable: wide seats, lots of room for your legs, etc… It is really significant and I usually take it for a $40 or so price difference. Another difference with the plane is that first class _is_ affordable when you have to pay for the trip and not your company.

Response:

I was 27 the first time around in Europe, so I went with a 1st class ticket. Yes, you’ll probably meet more people in 2nd class.  You’ll also probably run into more screaming kids, all-night talkers, and others. I liked 1st class.  If I wanted to meet more people, I’d just stroll down to 2nd class.  When I wanted to shut-off the world, I’d close the door in my (usually) vacant cabin in first class, draw the curtain, and fade off to sleep.  I had my fair share of *excellent* conversations in 2nd class. I didn’t run into a lot of frisbee tossers during my occasional travels in 2nd class.  The majority of the people that I would run into in first class were business travelers who weren’t usually interested in talking to the backpack-laden American sitting across from them. Just a sidenote – thought I know I’ll get some flack for it…I met a lot more women in 2nd class. Enjoy your trip! Kris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class.  We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class).  I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe. If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet.  Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam.  Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet.  Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc. I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment.  When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment.  They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard

Before you buy.

Response:

There is often a difference in the amount of room available for luggage, but this is changing.  First Class seldom has enough room for a big suitcase, Second Class on some trains has good luggage storage at the end of the car and often space between the seat backs for a medium sized suitcase. But I took a night train 2nd Class from Florence to Geneva last week and it appeared to be an old First Class carriage — individual compartments seating six people.  So there is no telling.

Response:

There is often a difference in the amount of room available for luggage, but this is changing.  First Class seldom has enough room for a big suitcase, Second Class on some trains has good luggage storage at the end of the car and often space between the seat backs for a medium sized suitcase. But I took a night train 2nd Class from Florence to Geneva last week and it appeared to be an old First Class carriage — individual compartments seating six people.  So there is no telling.

This seems to be a difference between compartment stock and open stock rather than between first and second class. Compartment stock is found less frequently (virtually extinct in the UK) although where it does exist it remains perhaps more common in first than in second class. First class open carriages generally have reasoanble luggage provision. Alan Harrison

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Thanks, mav

 From what I’ve seen, fewer kids who might be lound in 1st class. Although the more interesting crowd is in 2nd class.     Don Paris travelogues: http://www.visitparis.com

Response:

If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st)

I always buy second class tickets. If there is a problem in second class (too crowded, too noisy, too hoi polloi) you can always upgrade your ticket on the spot by paying the difference in price plus a small fee to the conductor. — Barbara Vaughan Princeton University email my first intitial my last name at my university dot edu (Or reply to dejanews email address) Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class.  We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class).  I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe.  If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet.  Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam.  Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet.  Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc. I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment.  When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment.  They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard

I liked second class more, because you are not alone in first with all the other Americans. You actually get to meet some of the people in the coutries you are visiting.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class.  We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class).  I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe.  If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet.  Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam.  Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet.  Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc. I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment.  When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment.  They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard I liked second class more, because you are not alone in first with all the other Americans. You actually get to meet some of the people in the coutries you are visiting. HI,

 For long trips I would recommend 1st class. It’s more comfortable, less people and sometimes even safer. 2nd class smells like urine, is dirty but it is cheaper; ok for short trips. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can explain what is the difference between 1st class, and 2nd class train travel in europe? (obviously price is a bit more for 1st) Hi, wolfmav! Be advised that the party is in 2nd class! Bob Yes, that’s exactly why we avoid 2nd class. We much prefer the relative peace and quiet (and extra space in 1st class). I’ve been kept up all night by frisbee-tossing back-packers on overnight trains in Europe. If your goal is to meet & party with people who are generally under 30, I would recommend 2nd class. If you would prefer to relax or sleep, enjoy the scenery or perhaps meet someone new and share a gentle conversation, I would recommend 1st class. Be aware, however, that a 1st class ticket doesn’t guarantee space or quiet. Last May, we flew from into Brussels (an overnight flight) and took a train from Brussels to Amsterdam. Because we were exhausted and weary, we bought 1st class seats on the train, hoping to find a haven of peace and quiet. Unfortunately, there was a group of about 15 chain-smoking beer-guzzling party people in our car, hollering at each other from one end of the car to the other, tossing beer cans and generally creating havoc. I was pretty sure that they were in the wrong compartment. When the first conductor came through to check tickets, I was certain that he would look a their tickets and direct them to the 2nd class carriage. He just glanced at their tickets and walked away. Just before we arrived in Amsterdam, a second conductor came by to check tickets and she told the party crowd that they were in the wrong compartment. They had 2nd class tickets all along, but sat in 1st class anyway. Richard I liked second class more, because you are not alone in first with all the other Americans. You actually get to meet some of the people in the coutries you are visiting. HI, For long trips I would recommend 1st class. It’s more comfortable, less people and sometimes even safer. 2nd class smells like urine, is dirty but it is cheaper; ok for short trips.

Maybe you’re remembering the NY city subway. I’ve always travelled 2nd class, even on long trips, and never experienced a smell of urine. — Barbara Vaughan Princeton University email my first intitial my last name at my university dot edu (Or reply to dejanews email address) Before you buy.

Response:

Mar 2000 07:49:28 GMT an der Newsgroup rec.travel.europe geschriwen: Maybe you’re remembering the NY city subway. I’ve always travelled 2nd class, even on long trips, and never experienced a smell of urine.

I tend to find First a more attractive proposition, but the deal doesn’t seem so sweet when one considers that it costs between 150% and 250% of the price of Second. Otoh here within Lux I travel First because the supplement amounts to 50c per day on a one month pass. (That’s what I term not bad value.) — ricardo     icq# 51047940     gsm# +352091511692 "Lieft d’Liewen, sitt frai!"

Response:

2nd class smells like urine, is dirty

Where did you find that? — Michael Forrest

Response:

rec.travel.europe geschriwen: 2nd class smells like urine, is dirty Where did you find that?

Not here, that’s for sure! Although the 2nd class compartments on CFL trains tend to get rather crowded and there isn’t a lot of legroom compared with 1st, which also benefits from the carpeted floors, engine noise sound proofing etc. Not bad for a 50c per day supplement! — ricardo     icq# 51047940     gsm# +352091511692 "Lieft d’Liewen, sitt frai!"

Response:

Question:

In my experience, depending how much you end up using the train each day, buying point to point tickets may end up being cheaper…particularly in Italy.  Check out Rick Steve’s book "Europe Through the Back Door."  He has a good appendix that shows the prices and recommendations for rail travel options (various passes, etc.)  in each country.  There is also a map/diagram in the first half of the guide that shows the estimated cost of point-to-point tickets for all of Europe.  I found it to be very helpful. JP

I second the recommendation to use Rick Steves. Also, if you are planning to buy the 5-country Europass, and you are taking the train from Amsterdam to Germany, you will need to buy a zone supplement for the Benelux countries as well as for Greece.  So consider that in your calculations.  Prague is not covered by the Europass at all so you should probably exclude that from your itinerary. Bridget I am leaving for Europe soon for a three week trip, and am wondering what people recommend for a europass? I am 31 so the europass seems to be the only option. I’m going to be flying into Amsterdam and then to Germany, Italy, Greece (Greek Islands), and then back up to Amsterdam. I’ll probably make a trip to Prague or Paris time permitting. The 8 day europass with the addition of one extra zone seems to be the best choice. The one extra zone would be Greece. Does this seem like a good choice?

The Travel Bug http://www.primenet.com/~bgood/home.htm

Response:

Perhaps JP or Bridget can help on this question. My wife and I intend in 2000 to travel on Eurail. We had thought we would use the two months go any where anytime pass. You are suggesting additional costs – zone supplements!   What are the additional costs that we are likely to incur in Holland – Germany – Belgium – Switizerland – Autria – Italy – France – Spain and Portugal using this method of travel???. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my experience, depending how much you end up using the train each day, buying point to point tickets may end up being cheaper…particularly in Italy.  Check out Rick Steve’s book "Europe Through the Back Door."  He has a good appendix that shows the prices and recommendations for rail travel options (various passes, etc.)  in each country.  There is also a map/diagram in the first half of the guide that shows the estimated cost of point-to-point tickets for all of Europe.  I found it to be very helpful. JP I second the recommendation to use Rick Steves. Also, if you are planning to buy the 5-country Europass, and you are taking the train from Amsterdam to Germany, you will need to buy a zone supplement for the Benelux countries as well as for Greece.  So consider that in your calculations.  Prague is not covered by the Europass at all so you should probably exclude that from your itinerary. Bridget I am leaving for Europe soon for a three week trip, and am wondering what people recommend for a europass? I am 31 so the europass seems to be the only option. I’m going to be flying into Amsterdam and then to Germany, Italy, Greece (Greek Islands), and then back up to Amsterdam. I’ll probably make a trip to Prague or Paris time permitting. The 8 day europass with the addition of one extra zone seems to be the best choice. The one extra zone would be Greece. Does this seem like a good choice? The Travel Bug http://www.primenet.com/~bgood/home.htm

Response:

Perhaps JP or Bridget can help on this question. My wife and I intend in 2000 to travel on Eurail. We had thought we would use the two months go any where anytime pass. You are suggesting additional costs – zone supplements!   What are the additional costs that we are likely to incur in Holland – Germany – Belgium – Switizerland – Autria – Italy – France – Spain and Portugal using this method of travel???

As I said, the Europass covers only 5 countries–Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and Switzerland.  You can buy pass supplements ($60 each) for:   the Benelux region (Belgium, Netherlands Luxembourg) Greece Austria/Hungary Portugal That would mean 3 supplements for you.  Depending on the cost it might be more economical to get the 17-country Eurail pass. You should also look into Saverpasses, which give a discount on the second person’s pass for two or more people travelling together.   Once you are in Europe, the two main additional costs you are likely to encounter are reservation fees for certain high speed or high-quality  trains, and couchette/sleeping car reservation fees for overnight trips if you take any of those.   You can find out more and see the whole list of pass options at: http://www.raileurope.com Have fun! Bridget The Travel Bug http://www.primenet.com/~bgood/home.htm

Response:

I am leaving for Europe soon for a three week trip, and am wondering what people recommend for a europass? I am 31 so the europass seems to be the only option. I’m going to be flying into Amsterdam and then to Germany, Italy, Greece (Greek Islands), and then back up to Amsterdam. I’ll probably make a trip to Prague or Paris time permitting. The 8 day europass with the addition of one extra zone seems to be the best choice. The one extra zone would be Greece. Does this seem like a good choice? Also, is a lot of train travel required in the Greek Islands thereby requiring extra purchases of train passes and so on? Any advice on the train issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Response:

Hi there, The 8 day europass with the addition of one extra zone seems to be the best choice. The one extra zone would be Greece. Does this seem like a good choice? Also, is a lot of train travel required in the Greek Islands thereby requiring extra purchases of train passes and so on?

If you plan to travel around Greek ISLANDS, you won’t need a train pass, because there are no trains on the islands. Daniel

Response:

| Also, is a lot of train travel required in the Greek Islands thereby requiring | extra purchases of train passes and so on? There are no railway lines on any of the Greek off-shore islands. You’ll be able to use the Europass for the Brindisi to Patras ferry (a port tax will be payable, locally) and then from Patras to Athens. There is a railway line that runs roughly all the way around the Peloponese peninsular and from Athens heading north to Thessaloniki, the Macedonian, Bulgarian and Turkish border if you’re going that far. — Phil Richards in Maidstone, UK

Response:

In my experience, depending how much you end up using the train each day, buying point to point tickets may end up being cheaper…particularly in Italy.  Check out Rick Steve’s book "Europe Through the Back Door."  He has a good appendix that shows the prices and recommendations for rail travel options (various passes, etc.)  in each country.  There is also a map/diagram in the first half of the guide that shows the estimated cost of point-to-point tickets for all of Europe.  I found it to be very helpful. JP

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Also, is a lot of train travel required in the Greek Islands thereby requiring | extra purchases of train passes and so on? There are no railway lines on any of the Greek off-shore islands. You’ll be able to use the Europass for the Brindisi to Patras ferry (a port tax will be payable, locally) and then from Patras to Athens. There is a railway line that runs roughly all the way around the Peloponese peninsular and from Athens heading north to Thessaloniki, the Macedonian, Bulgarian and Turkish border if you’re going that far. — Phil Richards in Maidstone, UK

Response:

I am leaving for Europe soon for a three week trip, and am wondering what people recommend for a europass? I am 31 so the europass seems to be the only option. I’m going to be flying into Amsterdam and then to Germany, Italy, Greece (Greek Islands), and then back up to Amsterdam. I’ll probably make a trip to Prague or Paris time permitting. The 8 day europass with the addition of one extra zone seems to be the best choice. The one extra zone would be Greece. Does this seem like a good choice? Also, is a lot of train travel required in the Greek Islands thereby requiring extra purchases of train passes and so on? Any advice on the train issue would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Response:

Hi there, The 8 day europass with the addition of one extra zone seems to be the best choice. The one extra zone would be Greece. Does this seem like a good choice? Also, is a lot of train travel required in the Greek Islands thereby requiring extra purchases of train passes and so on?

If you plan to travel around Greek ISLANDS, you won’t need a train pass, because there are no trains on the islands. Daniel

Response:

| Also, is a lot of train travel required in the Greek Islands thereby requiring | extra purchases of train passes and so on? There are no railway lines on any of the Greek off-shore islands. You’ll be able to use the Europass for the Brindisi to Patras ferry (a port tax will be payable, locally) and then from Patras to Athens. There is a railway line that runs roughly all the way around the Peloponese peninsular and from Athens heading north to Thessaloniki, the Macedonian, Bulgarian and Turkish border if you’re going that far. — Phil Richards in Maidstone, UK

Response:

In my experience, depending how much you end up using the train each day, buying point to point tickets may end up being cheaper…particularly in Italy.  Check out Rick Steve’s book "Europe Through the Back Door."  He has a good appendix that shows the prices and recommendations for rail travel options (various passes, etc.)  in each country.  There is also a map/diagram in the first half of the guide that shows the estimated cost of point-to-point tickets for all of Europe.  I found it to be very helpful. JP

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Also, is a lot of train travel required in the Greek Islands thereby requiring | extra purchases of train passes and so on? There are no railway lines on any of the Greek off-shore islands. You’ll be able to use the Europass for the Brindisi to Patras ferry (a port tax will be payable, locally) and then from Patras to Athens. There is a railway line that runs roughly all the way around the Peloponese peninsular and from Athens heading north to Thessaloniki, the Macedonian, Bulgarian and Turkish border if you’re going that far. — Phil Richards in Maidstone, UK

Response:

In my experience, depending how much you end up using the train each day, buying point to point tickets may end up being cheaper…particularly in Italy.  Check out Rick Steve’s book "Europe Through the Back Door."  He has a good appendix that shows the prices and recommendations for rail travel options (various passes, etc.)  in each country.  There is also a map/diagram in the first half of the guide that shows the estimated cost of point-to-point tickets for all of Europe.  I found it to be very helpful. JP

I second the recommendation to use Rick Steves. Also, if you are planning to buy the 5-country Europass, and you are taking the train from Amsterdam to Germany, you will need to buy a zone supplement for the Benelux countries as well as for Greece.  So consider that in your calculations.  Prague is not covered by the Europass at all so you should probably exclude that from your itinerary. Bridget I am leaving for Europe soon for a three week trip, and am wondering what people recommend for a europass? I am 31 so the europass seems to be the only option. I’m going to be flying into Amsterdam and then to Germany, Italy, Greece (Greek Islands), and then back up to Amsterdam. I’ll probably make a trip to Prague or Paris time permitting. The 8 day europass with the addition of one extra zone seems to be the best choice. The one extra zone would be Greece. Does this seem like a good choice?

The Travel Bug http://www.primenet.com/~bgood/home.htm

Response:

Perhaps JP or Bridget can help on this question. My wife and I intend in 2000 to travel on Eurail. We had thought we would use the two months go any where anytime pass. You are suggesting additional costs – zone supplements!   What are the additional costs that we are likely to incur in Holland – Germany – Belgium – Switizerland – Autria – Italy – France – Spain and Portugal using this method of travel???. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In my experience, depending how much you end up using the train each day, buying point to point tickets may end up being cheaper…particularly in Italy.  Check out Rick Steve’s book "Europe Through the Back Door."  He has a good appendix that shows the prices and recommendations for rail travel options (various passes, etc.)  in each country.  There is also a map/diagram in the first half of the guide that shows the estimated cost of point-to-point tickets for all of Europe.  I found it to be very helpful. JP I second the recommendation to use Rick Steves. Also, if you are planning to buy the 5-country Europass, and you are taking the train from Amsterdam to Germany, you will need to buy a zone supplement for the Benelux countries as well as for Greece.  So consider that in your calculations.  Prague is not covered by the Europass at all so you should probably exclude that from your itinerary. Bridget I am leaving for Europe soon for a three week trip, and am wondering what people recommend for a europass? I am 31 so the europass seems to be the only option. I’m going to be flying into Amsterdam and then to Germany, Italy, Greece (Greek Islands), and then back up to Amsterdam. I’ll probably make a trip to Prague or Paris time permitting. The 8 day europass with the addition of one extra zone seems to be the best choice. The one extra zone would be Greece. Does this seem like a good choice? The Travel Bug http://www.primenet.com/~bgood/home.htm

Response:

Perhaps JP or Bridget can help on this question. My wife and I intend in 2000 to travel on Eurail. We had thought we would use the two months go any where anytime pass. You are suggesting additional costs – zone supplements!   What are the additional costs that we are likely to incur in Holland – Germany – Belgium – Switizerland – Autria – Italy – France – Spain and Portugal using this method of travel???

As I said, the Europass covers only 5 countries–Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and Switzerland.  You can buy pass supplements ($60 each) for:   the Benelux region (Belgium, Netherlands Luxembourg) Greece Austria/Hungary Portugal That would mean 3 supplements for you.  Depending on the cost it might be more economical to get the 17-country Eurail pass. You should also look into Saverpasses, which give a discount on the second person’s pass for two or more people travelling together.   Once you are in Europe, the two main additional costs you are likely to encounter are reservation fees for certain high speed or high-quality  trains, and couchette/sleeping car reservation fees for overnight trips if you take any of those.   You can find out more and see the whole list of pass options at: http://www.raileurope.com Have fun! Bridget The Travel Bug http://www.primenet.com/~bgood/home.htm

Response: