Question:

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane? Nope, once you arrive you’re home-free. Biking from the airport into the city without a map is fun too!

haha.. I’m taking my race bike.. I don’t think it (nor I) can carry ~30kgs of suitcase-based luggage into the city! hippy

Response:

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane? Nope, once you arrive you’re home-free. Biking from the airport into the city without a map is fun too! I think the CTC can reply maps of "best" routes from London and Gatwick

Yecch, that takes all the adventure out of it. It’s London, not Baghdad – there’s little downside to the occasional wrong turn… miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

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Nope, once you arrive you’re home-free. Biking from the airport into the city without a map is fun too! I think the CTC can reply maps of "best" routes from London and Gatwick Yecch, that takes all the adventure out of it. It’s London, not Baghdad – there’s little downside to the occasional wrong turn…

There is less traffic in Baghdad! I managed to get free London cycling maps from the Heathrow Underground rail station (after telling me I couldn’t take a bike on the Picadilly line.)    The "cycle path" consisted mostly of lines painted on the old pavement. Very rough. This was a fine Sunday – I wouldn’t want to brave weekday traffic.

Response:

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane? Nope, once you arrive you’re home-free. Biking from the airport into the city without a map is fun too! miguel

I think the CTC can reply maps of "best" routes from London and Gatwick — Jack Russell

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Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?

Nope, once you arrive you’re home-free. Biking from the airport into the city without a map is fun too! dave: Qantas is still an option but it’s looking like Malaysian or KLM for now. I’ll get back to you on that..

Malaysia Airlines is the most comfortable and has the best in-flight service. Some awkward connections in KUL though. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

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The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I reckon has one more in it btw. Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a ’special’ cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags or (even more expensive) hardcases?

You can buy a larger box from Qantas (under $20). In Sydney you have to go to the domestic terminal (who knows why!). I believe VIcBike and BNSW may also sell them. They are a lot easier to pack the bike in. I have one of those expensive hard cases, bought last year. Trouble is that plus the weight of the bike is your whole baggage allowance. It took a great deal of fist thumping and cries of "never had this problem before" to not have to pay massive excess charges returning from Heathrow last year. Part of the trouble (I suspect) is that it does not look like a bike. A bare bike or one in a cardboard box tends to just get shunted off. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel. They dont actually tell you     about it.. but when you get to the Jal hotel in Narita they just give you a room.   Breaks the trip up nicely. And they laid on an earthquake for me. The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane.   (air china) didnt actually exist.  The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K.   A 767 to Japan and a 747 to london.  THe more engines the better. I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it.  and I decided to go an hour before that Return tickets have a 12-month or 18-month maximum duration. I’m going longer than that (planning to anyway) so a one-way is the sensible choice. The cheapest I saw from STA was the Malaysian/KLM one at around 1100+tax. It refuels in KL for 2hrs and then heads to Amsterdam. If I take this flight I’m going to spend a few days in ‘dam before heading on to London. I wonder how many people Heathrow gets coming in from Amsterdam that forgot to remove the lil baggies from their pockets..?! There is a more direct flight that costs $80 more on Austrian Airlines (Lauder??) but it doesn’t have the ‘fun stop’. Qantas actually had a $2k return ticket that you could get up until mid-May I think, which I thought was exceptional. I need to look around some more.. hippy

– Jack Russell

Response:

Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a ’special’ cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags or (even more expensive) hardcases?

The bike boxes Qantas provides when to buy them are much larger than what bikes are sold in to retailers.  You Need to remove front wheel and seatpost, turn handlebar and remove pedals. And if you care about your bike, put some wood pieces across the box so that if they sit box on its side and stack luggage on top, it ios the wood pieces that carry the load and not your derailleur/frame/wheels. Some airlines provide bike bags. There are oversize string plastic bag. No need to remove wheels, but you still need to remove pedals and turn handlbars,. Seat can stay. Forces baggage handlers to take care of the bike. But doesn’t prevent bike from falling from trolley, or in airport with luggage belts wide enough for bike, you don’t know what happens to the bike beyond that curtain. (Avoid the Air Canada oversize belt at Dorval airport like the plague, insist on then getting a baggage handler). Expensive bike bags are not design to protect a bike, they are designed to allow you to carry the bike easily. (both wheels off for instance). Hardcases will protect your bike. However, beware of weight limits since the hardcase itself weighs a lot, and the airline may not like it if it is too heaby or goes over your weight limit if you are flying in a market that is weight limited.

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The cardboard bike box in the hall has done two trips to london and I reckon has one more in it btw.

Is this the same sort of box that new bikes come in or a ’special’ cardboard bike box? What about those (expensive I think) bike bags or (even more expensive) hardcases? Quantak JAl do this thing where you take Jal to london and get a night in Japan.. Its not enough time to do anything but its a nice hotel. They dont actually tell you     about it.. but when you get to the Jal hotel in Narita they just give you a room.   Breaks the trip up nicely. And they laid on an earthquake for me. The last time I looked.. in the middle of peak season the cheapest flight I could find was 1755 but the airplane.   (air china) didnt actually exist.  The chepest real flight was JAL which was about 2K.  A 767 to Japan and a 747 to london.  THe more engines the better. I actually booked the flight 10 hours before getting on it.  and I decided to go an hour before that

Return tickets have a 12-month or 18-month maximum duration. I’m going longer than that (planning to anyway) so a one-way is the sensible choice. The cheapest I saw from STA was the Malaysian/KLM one at around 1100+tax. It refuels in KL for 2hrs and then heads to Amsterdam. If I take this flight I’m going to spend a few days in ‘dam before heading on to London. I wonder how many people Heathrow gets coming in from Amsterdam that forgot to remove the lil baggies from their pockets..?! There is a more direct flight that costs $80 more on Austrian Airlines (Lauder??) but it doesn’t have the ‘fun stop’. Qantas actually had a $2k return ticket that you could get up until mid-May I think, which I thought was exceptional. I need to look around some more.. hippy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky. <snip Thanks for this kind of info. I’m going to try and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me so I’ll let you guys know how that works out.. remind me if I don’t hippy Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL.     If you want any tips? Dave IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow BA.. I could tell you stories about BA..  Which stands for Bad Attitude. Dave

Better than its predecessor BOAC "Better on a camel" — Jack Russell

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL.     If you want any tips? IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane? dave: Qantas is still an option but it’s looking like Malaysian or KLM for now. I’ll get back to you on that.. hippy

Its leaving London, the BA staff are a shambles. Since they handle many airlines they might be hard to avoid. Funnily enough I flew Brodeaux to Gatwick with BA last year. Did not have the bike protected at all (bit hard after a tour). No problems. Also 4 years ago flew NZ/United to Caracas. Had the bike boxed, no charge no problems. Returning from Caracas United charged  me some nominal fee. So I guess it is all a bit random. — Jack Russell

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Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane?

Nop. Once your luggage gets past the check-in counter, its is accepted all the way to destination. Baggage handlers don’t really know if you paid extra or not. Technically, if you interline, the second airline might page you if you’ve gone way above baggage allowance (they’d see number of pieces check in if they look for it). But I have never heard this happen. Generally, the baggage allowance of the originating airline is honoured by the other airlines on the same trip/ticket. When you get to a check-in counter manned by an airline whose policies are different, you need to assert your rights (and then it is good to know your own airline’s precise rules) and insist that they check the exact rules that apply to you as an airline X passenger. Point out that your ticket is on your airline X, and airline X’s rules apply and that you have no link to the airlien Y which may be the employer of the check in agent. If Y and X are part of the same airline allowance, pickup an alliance booklet that garantees seemless baggage rules from your airline across the whole network of airlines part of that alliance.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky. <snip Thanks for this kind of info. I’m going to try and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me so I’ll let you guys know how that works out.. remind me if I don’t hippy Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL.     If you want any tips? Dave

IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow — Jack Russell

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Hippy I had no problems with quantas or JAL.     If you want any tips? IMHO its generally not Qantas who the problem but the BA staff at Heathrow

Is it a problem arriving at Heathrow or when you try to leave with the bike? i.e. could they try and sting me _after_ I get off the plane? dave: Qantas is still an option but it’s looking like Malaysian or KLM for now. I’ll get back to you on that.. hippy

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A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky.

<snip Thanks for this kind of info. I’m going to try and take the Puegeot (roadie) to Europe with me so I’ll let you guys know how that works out.. remind me if I don’t hippy

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky. We got onto Qantas in perth without trouble. Bikes were boxed as required. And the domestic flight on Air NZ from Wellington was OK, with a $20 per bike handling fee.   But returning to Oz from Christchurch, the air-NZ staff acting for Qantas got strict. Bikes are officially included in the 20kg allowance, and they actually allow only 25kg each. So with 2x boxed touring bikes at 20kg each, and 15kg each bags, "that’ll be NZ$440 excess charge please".    A chat with the Qantas ticketing office got us the same special deal that skis and golf clubs (i think?) get – ie the first 15kg of excess is charged as 3kg, so we only paid NZ$66 after moving some weight to carry-on.  But that was apparently just because they chose to be nice to us.    Be warned!  Be very careful trying to fly out of Christchurch with bikes. You can save a few kg by loading the bikes unboxed, but will need to sign a limited release. Also, they don’t weigh the carry-on. I have seen one lady get challenged on that, but she had a _very_ heavy-looking wheeled case.   Putting the locks in carry-on is a good idea, but Melbourne airport’s security people decided that D-locks were deadly weapons. We then managed to check them in. At other airports, they always noticed the locks on the X-ray, but didn’t care once identified.  Good luck. NEXT TIME – I’ll be flying Virgin (Pacific) Blue. The bike counts as only 5kg, and excess charges are much lower – e.g. $25 for up to 30kg. http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.p… http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/beforeYouTravel/sportingEquipment (Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the people responsible for our aiport security. I’ll happily fight their security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me with a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two

I recently travelled (without bike) from Canberra to Sydney by coach.  I arrived at the coach terminal about 15 minutes before departure, my luggage was not x-rayed, they did not care if I was carrying a jeweller’s screwdriver or a nail file, and the return trip of 560 km approx was $50 on a non refundable fare.  The time from Jolimont Centre, Canberra to Eddy Avenue, Central Railway was 3.25 hours.  It was all quite civilised. I will need a good reason to travel from Canberra to Sydney by air on either airline. John Dwyer.

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["Followup-To:" header set to rec.travel.air.] A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky. [...] (Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the people responsible for our aiport security. I’ll happily fight their security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me with a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two

It becomes more understandable — note, not more acceptable, just more understandable — when you come to the realisation that airport security is not about security. It’s about the _appearance_ of security. Or, in other words: they don’t screen you to make sure that the flight is safe; they screen you to make sure that you _believe_ the flight is safe. If I walk through the metal detector at Melbourne airport, for example, I could be carrying a ceramic or glass knife, strapped to my thigh — and they wouldn’t know any different. Meals are served with a plastic knife … and a metal fork. Hell, I could do some pretty serious damage (with the right training) just with my glasses, especially if I carefully filed the ends to sharp points and covered them with rubber tips to conceal the sharp points. To tighten security up to the point where nothing dangerous gets on board would cost a fortune, and drive up air travel prices to the point where nobody would fly any more. And doing things effectively on board the plane (like having cockpit doors that are locked and effectively impenetrable from the passengers’ area) isn’t visible, so it doesn’t immediately allay fears of hijack/terrorism/whatever. Bruce Schneier has some interesting articles on this topic — google for "cryptogram" and have a search through the archives. —

Response:

A warning – Things are getting worse. Don’t fly Qantas with bikes any more. It’s too risky. We got onto Qantas in perth without trouble. Bikes were boxed as required. And the domestic flight on Air NZ from Wellington was OK, with a $20 per bike handling fee.    But returning to Oz from Christchurch, the air-NZ staff acting for Qantas got strict. Bikes are officially included in the 20kg allowance, and they actually allow only 25kg each. So with 2x boxed touring bikes at 20kg each, and 15kg each bags, "that’ll be NZ$440 excess charge please".     A chat with the Qantas ticketing office got us the same special deal that skis and golf clubs (i think?) get – ie the first 15kg of excess is charged as 3kg, so we only paid NZ$66 after moving some weight to carry-on.  But that was apparently just because they chose to be nice to us.     Be warned!  Be very careful trying to fly out of Christchurch with bikes. You can save a few kg by loading the bikes unboxed, but will need to sign a limited release. Also, they don’t weigh the carry-on. I have seen one lady get challenged on that, but she had a _very_ heavy-looking wheeled case.    Putting the locks in carry-on is a good idea, but Melbourne airport’s security people decided that D-locks were deadly weapons. We then managed to check them in. At other airports, they always noticed the locks on the X-ray, but didn’t care once identified.  Good luck. NEXT TIME – I’ll be flying Virgin (Pacific) Blue. The bike counts as only 5kg, and excess charges are much lower – e.g. $25 for up to 30kg. http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.p… http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/beforeYouTravel/sportingEquipment (Its a bit depressing to realise how mind-numbingly stupid are the people responsible for our aiport security. I’ll happily fight their security chief, him armed with a confiscated swiss-army-knife, and me with a smashed glass duty-free bottle or two

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Question:

Since the demise of Premier I’ve heard/read that the Rembrandt would become a floating hotel.  Now have heard the same thing about Norway.  When was the last time a major vessel was converted to a hotel? ? ? ?  Is the hotel theory just BS or a realistic possibility? ? ? ?

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Is the hotel theory just BS or a realistic possibility? ? ? ?

Hi, I can think of one example about 80 miles from me in Santa Barbara, Queen Mary.  There is another example in Sacramento.  These come to mind readily.  I am sure there are others. Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com

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Since the demise of Premier I’ve heard/read that the Rembrandt would become a floating hotel.  Now have heard the same thing about Norway.  When was the last time a major vessel was converted to a hotel? ? ? ?  Is the hotel theory just BS or a realistic possibility? ? ? ?

Actually, we have a number of floating hotels /resorts in Thailand. One on the Ping river: the MS Edelweiss <— don’t ask me who came up with that typical Thai name! At least one near Phuket, moving to Kho Samui under tow during the Monsoon season. About the Rotterdam V (Rembrandt): this is certain. It will happen soon. Contracts have already been signed. About the Norway, I don’t know. Rotterdam and Amsterdam have always been in competition. Especially on the ‘my car must be bigger than that of my neighbor’ front. Amsterdam build a town hall annex opera, so Rotterdam suddenly needed a town hall annex municipal library. Now Rotterdam will have a docked classic cruiser as hotel, I’m not surprised at all that Amsterdam is looking to outdo her foe.

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While being converted to a stationary hotel is better than being scrapped, I have to agree with there, Karen.  A ship converted to a hotel is just a dead ship.  It has neither the comforts (such as there are) of a real hotel nor the sense of adventure that a working ship has.  A ship at sea has six degrees of freedom and I like it when all six are being used.  Even in port, a live ship vibrates underfoot.  I suppose if we are in Rotterdam or Amsterdam (if the Norway conversion goes through) , we will have to at least visit if not stay, but that would be more like a wake than anything else.  . -snip- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t put much stock in it, but that’s JMHO, for both the Rembrandt and the Norway.   I believe the last successful conversion of ship to hotel was the Queen Mary in California.  I was there once, just to see what it was all about and experience what’s left of the ship, but I don’t think I’d return.  Personally, I just don’t like a stationary ship as lodging, but as I said, that’s just me. Karen            __ /7__/7__/7__ ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::…      http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews (…and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Bob Gow "Experience is what you get when  you expected something else."

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While being converted to a stationary hotel is better than being scrapped, I have to agree with there, Karen.  A ship converted to a hotel is just a dead ship

Have to agree.  Heck, go on any cruise ship on turn-around day between, say 10:30 and 12:30 and the feeling is vastly different than at 6pm once underway. Regards, Keith

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WE have booked on The Norway next Feb.  However, I have gotten some bad reviews from people that have recently been on her.  Any feedback would be appreciated.  Thank you.  

Response:

I’m scheduled to be on the Norway later this year (my second time on the ship).  As such, I’m sure I’ve read the same reviews you have.  But one thing has to be kept in mind.  You have to remember that the "Blue Lady" was built as a TransAtlantic ocean liner.  Not as a cruise ship. So the cabins vary greatly in size (even within categories); there isn’t "FreeStyle Dining"; there aren’t many alternative restaurants; you have to tender into ports due to her deep "draft" (remember, she was designed to keep steady in the choppy Atlantic); and there are no rock-climbing walls. On the "plus" side (and this is a very big plus) you’d be sailing on one of the "grande dames" of the sea.  A ship with 40 years of history.  One of the last of an (unfortunately) dying breed. –Jim CRI Shortwave http://pw2.netcom.com/~jleq/cri1.htm

WE have booked on The Norway next Feb.  However, I have gotten some bad

reviews

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Hello BBoneheads, and others. I originally sent this as an email to BBoneheads but after reading the other replys I wanted the ship to get balanced reporting.  When I booked the Sea Princess (brand new at the time) it cost me $800.00 pp for 7 day western Carribbean, like I said, the Norway was $249.00 pp for 7 day eastern Carribbean.  Princess certainly was a great trip, but Norway was a fantastic value. Hello BBoneheads, I just returned yesterday from the SS Norway- 7 day eastern Carribbean. Prior cruises on Chandris, Princess, and Costa.  This was the best cruise value by far, the ship is very very old but what a great lady of the sea. The staff was wonderful, food good, dining rooms loud (choose the Leeward dining room), elevators practically non-existent (AKA SS Stairmaster), clubs are very nicely appointed from the intimacy of the windjammer to the Cheerslike atmosphere of the sportsbar, to the lounglike atmosphere of the Northcape lounge, to the very chic International lounge.  We bought the cheapest cabins I could get (we spend little time there) and they were acceptable (not great), acceptable.  NCL really spent the refurbishment money in the best possible way, Fifth Avenue and the Champs D esslya (sp) are the FABULOUS main port and starboard deck walkways from the front to the back of the ship, fully enclosed, and beautifully appointed.  Air conditioning on the lower levels left something to be desired.  Service was very attentive by all staff except at the pursers desk where service was efficient but blunt and smile-less.  The comedians were incredible, Vinnie Mark, Peter Sasso, Homer Noodleman, and even The cruise director Adrian Lewis.  The show productions were much better than any I’ve seen on other cruises, still not broadway, but nicely done.  Decks do not seem crowded even with 3,000 people on board.  Main pool is nice other pool and hot tubs are inconveniently located.  Embarkation and Debarkation by far the most seemless and efficient of any cruise I have done to date, on in 35 minutes and off and gone in 1 hour.  Just a note, We were scheduled for a stop a Great Stirrup Cay but a guest on board had a medical emergency and the Coast Guard made the ship divert to Kakos to leave him at a hospital, so we did miss that stop which everyone was really looking forward to, and had to steam full speed to get back to Miami on time.  The crew bent over backwards to make it as pleasant as possible but some people can never be pleased. I read many reviews prior to sailing and thought "Hey, even if it is terrible at $37.00 per day I couldn’t get three meals at my local McDonalds."  That’s Right, this trip cost me $249.00 per person. I was very pleasantly surprised, and would do it again in a heartbeat. John

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WE have booked on The Norway next Feb.  However, I have gotten some bad reviews from people that have recently been on her.  Any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.  

Hi! First of all you will notice that there are basically two different opinions of the "Norway" – people either love or hate her, there’s hardly anything in between. It’s not a secret that I belong to the first group. The "Norway" is very different from all the modern cruise ships. She was built as the flagship of the "Grande Nation", S/S "France", in 1962 and is the last of the great oceanliners ever built (Cunard’s "QE2" was built with cruising in mind, already). Most people who think of oceanliners think of ships like the one from that well-known blockbuster movie, but the oceanliners built between the 1930s and 1960s in most cases did not have those superior if not cluttered interiors. The "Norway" has undergone a number of changes but nonetheless there are still lots of small details or even some large remains of the S/S "France" visible throughout the ship. Most cruise passengers who dislike the "Norway" make one big mistake: they try to compare her with modern super- or megaliners. On their last cruise the dining room had walls of glass on three sides, there was that wonderful observation lounge and the atrium – wow! On the "Norway", there is no atrium, the dining rooms (although they are very nice) do not have windows and you won’t find an observation lounge, either. No waterslide, no mini golf, no rock climbing. Once has to be aware of the fact that this is a former two-class oceanliner, which at first makes it a bit more difficult to find your way around. When I was aboard last August (before the most recent refurbishment), I was surprised by the ships’s generally very good condition. Former passengers and others "docked [sic] next to her in St. Thomas / St. Maarten" had reported about a ship with rust all over it, about carpets so worn that they could hardly be seen any longer etc. I can honestly say that the ship was far from being in bad repair, given the fact that her last thorough refurbishment had been more than two years ago (I had also been onboard on the second cruise after that refurbishment). No "rust all over the ship", no carpets in horrible condition. Yes, there were spots where some upgrading seemed very necessary (and the Astroturf high atop the ship *was* very worn), but I totally disagree with people who claim that she "should be scrapped or sank". I also visited the ship in drydock last November, and a number of improvements were made at that time, with work spent on most areas onboard. A word concerning the accommodations: you need a good and knowledgeable TA when booking a cruise on the "Norway". Even within a particular cabin category, the actual size of the cabins may vary by up to 100% or more. Your TA should be able to find the best-possible cabins within a given category for you. In 1999 I had a lower-category inside cabin which was very large, with an abundance of drawer and especially closet space, while on the last cruise, NCL assigned me a cabin which I could not change (I had booked directly with them). It was an outside several categories higher than the one I had two years earlier, but it was small and had hardly any closet space. It would have been difficult for two for the week – the 1999 cruise was two weeks and there were two people in the cabin back then, nonetheless we did not even need one of the three closets! I’d be glad to answer any additional questions that might arise. Regards from Germany, Raoul Fiebig "Das Ruderhaus": http://www.ruderhaus.de/ "CruiseReviews.com": http://www.cruisereviews.com/ "Cruisin’ ": http://www.stutt.com/cruising/home.html

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First of all you will notice that there are basically two different opinions of the "Norway" – people either love or hate her, there’s hardly anything in between. It’s not a secret that I belong to the first group.

I’ll find out what group I belong to next week.  I have visited the Norway numerous times but this will be the first time I have sailed on her.  I am not sure if I am correct… but as far as the ship, I am lowering my expectations.  While I do not care or even notice if a clock is broken or there is some rust here or there (it is an old ship, after all), I do expect the air-conditioning and plumbing to work.  I expect to find comfortable chairs and some nice spaces where I can meet with my friends and have a good time over a drink or a meal. I’ve sailed on NCL ships many times so I doubt that I will have a problem with the food or service. I probably won’t even notice if my shrimp are served in a compote or not… or how many forks and spoons are placed before me.  I don’t sweat the small stuff.  Unless they have changed drastically, NCL always puts on some great entertainment. Last month I cruised on the Golden Princess…. had a great time.  I’m pretty sure I’ll have a great time on the Norway too, but then, I have never been on a ship and not had a good time. It will be interesting to see if I have a good time because of the ship… or in spite of her. — George in PA Countryside Travel www.countryside-travel.com

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from people that have recently been on her.  Any feedback would be

About 40 people from this newsgroup, are going on the Norway this weekend.  Some of us will write reviews.   Becca  <—–stay tuned to this channel…

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Bon voyage, Becca.  Sorry we couldn’t join you on this one. Ermalee <—-staying home for 12 more days until our Galaxy cruise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – from people that have recently been on her.  Any feedback would be About 40 people from this newsgroup, are going on the Norway this weekend.  Some of us will write reviews. Becca  <—–stay tuned to this channel…

Response:

I am one of those who fall into the just about hated it category.  We sailed in February of 2001.  We got a great last minute deal on a penthouse suite and decided to take a chance.  We had heard the reviews about the ship and realized that she was old and soon to be retired (all of the retirement stuff turned out to be a lot of PR hype since they haven’t retired her), so we had lowered expectations.  The ship was a grand old dame and I am glad that we had the experience.  However, the service was really bad.  Crew members were unfriendly, not much help and at times downright rude.  Our concierge was of no help and disappeared after we made a complaint to her about a shore excursion fiasco.  The food was palatable but hardly unforgettable.  Dining room service was slow and inpersonal.  By the end of the cruise most waiters know their clients and anticipate their needs.  Every night was like the first night!  Our cabin steward introduced himself to us and asked our names four times over the first three days.  Requests went unanswered day after day.  Even if I left a note for an extra towel or fresh bottle of water, requests were unheeded, but the notes were left right on the dresser or stuck back on the mirror.  The cruise director’s staff was the worst.  Rude, nasty, joking about passengers and conversing in their own language, laughing when questioned or asked for assistance.  Their private island experience was more Survivor then Fantasy Island.  Loved the ship, hated the service.  So NCL is off my list.  Even a brand spanking new ship cannot make up for lackluster service.  Glad I had the experience, but won’t do NCL again.  And the "retire the Norway" scam was pretty sleazy, if you ask me.  By the way, although I wrote a letter outlining my negative experiences, I never received a reply.  Hope your experience is a better one.

Response:

     Am I mistaken or didn’t I read in Cruise Travel that the NORWAY was being retired this year??  I just read a post that someone was booked on her in Feb. of next year.  I would love to cruise on one of these older ships before they are all gone.  I guess I am swaying more towards the QE2.

Response:

Am I mistaken or didn’t I read in Cruise Travel that the NORWAY was being retired this year??  I just read a post that someone was booked on her in Feb. of next year.  I would love to cruise on one of these older ships before they are all gone.  I guess I am swaying more towards the QE2.

They had what was billed as a finale season as an NCL ship. I believe it was not to be retired but sent to the orient under Star. They were just kidding though and kept her in the NCL fleet. — Charles

Response:

     I would think that such a "false" story would cause alot of distrust in the NCL company on the part of passengers.  Thanks for setting the story straight.        I always hear good vs. evil stories about this ship.   Like someone said earlier…..your either gonna love it or your gonna hate it.  I’ve been on ships that I’ve disliked but don’t think I’ve ever hated a ship. I look forward to hearing the review of the group sailing her today.   …..Hey if you guys at sea read this…..send us a message in a bottle…..Let us know how your enjoying it.

Response:

Charles is right.

Please, Karens, even if he is, don’t say so.

Response:

"that she now belongs to NCL"???

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I would think that such a "false" story would cause alot of distrust in the NCL company on the part of passengers.  Thanks for setting the story straight.     I always hear good vs. evil stories about this ship.   Like someone said earlier…..your either gonna love it or your gonna hate it.  I’ve been on ships that I’ve disliked but don’t think I’ve ever hated a ship. I love the Norway, I really do, and last September’s trip increased my fondness for her.  That she now belongs to NCL is just a bad coincidence, as far as I’m concerned. The only cruise that I can truthfully say I hated was on NCL’s (then) Dreamward.  Worst seaworthiness, worst food, worst service, worst overall passenger structure and planning by a cruise ship…you get the idea.  The only thing good about that trip was I was at sea and not at work                 __ /7__/7__/7__  ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::…          http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews     (…and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Response:

We are thinking about booking a cruise this summer in NCL’s Norway.  We are traveling as a family with two teenage boys.  They are 15 and 13.  The past two summers we took them on cruises the Big Red Boat  and the "Little" Blue Boat (and was it ever little).  They had a good time on the Oceanic, but they found the teenage activities on the Seabreeze to be rather limited and very boring.   I promised them a one week cruise this summer and that they would have lots of fun.  What kind of crowd and activities for kids will we find in the Norway? I am also a little concerned about this being the "end of the line" for the Norway. I realize it is old, but is that really a bad thing.  In some cases, it can be.  The "Little Blue Boat" looked old, but so what……well now I hear it is resting on the bottom of the ocean. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. We are looking at the Norway, because we like the idea of the Freestyle Cruising, the dates work with our schedule and the price is reasonable.  But if they will be disappointed, I don’t want to "waste" the time and money, and I will search for another "teenager friendly" cruise.

Response:

Well, we are going on the Norway on March 17th, so I can’t answer most of your questions yet. However, you mentioned the fact of liking the idea of Freestyle cruising, and you should know that Norway is continuing traditional style cruising for the rest of her cruises. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We are thinking about booking a cruise this summer in NCL’s Norway.  We are traveling as a family with two teenage boys.  They are 15 and 13.  The past two summers we took them on cruises the Big Red Boat  and the "Little" Blue Boat (and was it ever little).  They had a good time on the Oceanic, but they found the teenage activities on the Seabreeze to be rather limited and very boring.   I promised them a one week cruise this summer and that they would have lots of fun.  What kind of crowd and activities for kids will we find in the Norway? I am also a little concerned about this being the "end of the line" for the Norway. I realize it is old, but is that really a bad thing.  In some cases, it can be.  The "Little Blue Boat" looked old, but so what……well now I hear it is resting on the bottom of the ocean. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. We are looking at the Norway, because we like the idea of the Freestyle Cruising, the dates work with our schedule and the price is reasonable.  But if they will be disappointed, I don’t want to "waste" the time and money, and I will search for another "teenager friendly" cruise.

Response:

We did the Eastern Caribbean last week on the Norway.  Did not see many teenagers…mostly younger kids.  Saw a lot of activity for them with the counselors and there is an extra charge to enroll in the Kids’ Club; but some of the kids looked a little bored.  Pools are on the small side (this is an older ship).  There is a pretty extensive video arcade outside of the casino and there were quite a few kids there most of the time.  The cruise we took spends three entire days at sea and kids may get bored.  Ports of call are St. Martin and St. John/St. Thomas.  There is also a day at NCL’s private island.  Not much for kids to do in ports of call, unless you are into the dive/snorkel and beach scene.  Kids would probably enjoy the private island.  Caribbean night on the ship is a great party!  The ship is old and she shows her age.  We went for the history of it but were disappointed with food, service and attitudes of some of the staff.  The entertainment is superb, but may not suit the kids’ tastes.   All ports are tender ports, so getting off the ship takes time each morning in port.  There is no freestyle dining on the Norway either.  I did find the dress code much more relaxed than our 3 previous Celebrity cruises and I enjoyed that (so did hubby).  If you would like more info or have any specific questions, feel free to post again or email me.  Whatever your choice…ENJOY!!

Response:

Another thought about the Norway…be very careful about the type and location of cabin that you book.  Some cabins are VERY small.  Keep in mind that this ship was built in the days when there were first and second class passengers.  Some of the cabins we passed had little more than a bed and chair and I hear that the shower stalls made submarine accomodations look spacious!!  We had a "deluxe penthouse suite" and there was plenty of room…king size bed, double dresser, table and chairs and full length couch.  Also a full balcony with table, chairs and lounge.  There was a spacious bathroom with full size tube and two sinks!  But make sure you know the size of your cabin!  It could be crowded with two teenagers if you get one of those 8×10 cabins!!

Response:

We are looking at the Norway, because we like the idea of the Freestyle Cruising, the dates work with our schedule and the price is reasonable.  But if they will be disappointed, I don’t want to "waste" the time and money, and I will search for another "teenager friendly" cruise.

Be careful about the dates for the Norway this coming summer.  I don’t think freestyle is connected with this particular NCL ship, at least not for the very last transat crossing she’ll be doing, according to the literature I received with my booking info. Karen                 __ /7__/7__/7__  ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::…       http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews (…and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Response:

All the information we’ve received, along with the web site and brochure, says that the Kids’ Club is complimentary. I’ve never heard of a cruise line charging extra for kids’ programs. Does anyone else know anything about this? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We did the Eastern Caribbean last week on the Norway.  Did not see many teenagers…mostly younger kids.  Saw a lot of activity for them with the counselors and there is an extra charge to enroll in the Kids’ Club;

Response:

there is an extra charge to enroll in the Kids’ Club;

Hi, As a matter of clarification, there is no charge for the children’s program on NCL. Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Response:

All the information we’ve received, along with the web site and brochure, says that the Kids’ Club is complimentary. I’ve never heard of a cruise line charging extra for kids’ programs. Does anyone else know anything about this?

Patti, As I understand it, the Kid’s Crew is free, They have a day pack, drink cup, etc. which runs around $40 (see below). Something special that they can take home. I plan on getting my Ben one. Gene From NCL’s web page NCL’s Complimentary Kid’s Crew

Question:

And no bookings are necessary in MacDonald’s. PB Do you have to book for Burger King or KFC? Regards David Bennetts Australia

since so many Parisians eat at these places keeping them in prosperous —  maybe so

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wil be in paris on the 13 & 14 this month. The hotel where I am staying, is near the Montparnasse Tower but does not have its own restaurant. I am worried that Paris will be busy over these days, and it will be difficult to find somewhere to eat (i.e all tables booked) Am I worrying unnessesarily? Do I just keep going down the street till I find somewhere reasonable? or might there be a time where it is difficult to find anywhere? just make sure if there are any hidden surcharges , etc etc etc they sure like to pad out that bill. you think you know the prices on the menu but when the bill arives

That’s not typical of my experience of Paris. I have never had a padded bill there. PB

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wil be in paris on the 13 & 14 this month. The hotel where I am staying, is near the Montparnasse Tower but does not have its own restaurant. I am worried that Paris will be busy over these days, and it will be difficult to find somewhere to eat (i.e all tables booked) Am I worrying unnessesarily? Do I just keep going down the street till I find somewhere reasonable? or might there be a time where it is difficult to find anywhere? just make sure if there are any hidden surcharges , etc etc etc they sure like to pad out that bill. you think you know the prices on the menu but when the bill arives That’s not typical of my experience of Paris. I have never had a padded bill there.

I never had a padded bill either.  What I HAVE seen, many many times, is that when you enter one of the touristy  restaurants that post "tourist " menus outside (especially in the 5th Arr. on the Left Bank), the waiter will hand you a menu that doesn’t include any of their tourist menus selections. Then, if you ask about the menu outside, you’ll get a characteristically-Parisian-waiter sneer , and he’ll begrudgingly bring you the tourist menu.  True, the better food is on the regular menu.  But if the outside menu is what brought you in, I think it should be on the menu they show you when you sit down, n’est-ce pas? And you shouldn’t be subjected to attitude if you ask for it, either.

Response:

I imagine foreign travelers must get a serious shock when it comes time to pay the hotel bill inthe US as in  most cities there are huge unannounced tax charges that can add 20 or 30 dollars to a bill easily [e.g. city hotel tax, state tax etc etc]  – I have never had a hotel bill in Europe that was larger than what I bargained for — no hidden taxes.

Hi, I booked a "last minute" bargain deal off of travelocity to amsterdam last fall… and the hotel included breakfast… now we get there (the marriott on the liedsplien) and they’ve got 3 breakfast menus… tell us "if it’s included it’s the superdeluxmegabreakfast"… ok… we eat… checkout after 4 days… head home… I get a charge on my CC for what amounts to 8 superdeluxmegabreakfasts (at their regular HIGH price… what can I say… I’m really with a regular little continental breakfast)… I contest the charge and they drop it… — "But to live outside the law, you must be honest" Bob Dylan – Absolutely Sweet Marie – 1966

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is pretty common to have daily menus that are not on the menu — but are posted like that — not just a tourist thing and one has to know the billing customs of a country — it is padding the bill [as we see often in Italy] to simply add items you haven’t ordered — but if service charges or cover charges are posted, they are fair game I imagine foreign travelers must get a serious shock when it comes time to pay the hotel bill inthe US as in  most cities there are huge unannounced tax charges that can add 20 or 30 dollars to a bill easily [e.g. city hotel tax, state tax etc etc]  – I have never had a hotel bill in Europe that was larger than what I bargained for — no hidden taxes.

It is extremely unusual and in most European countries illegal to post prices that are absent of all taxes.  In the US, it has been my experience that the opposite is true – that all prices posted are absent of taxes – with the exception of excise taxes, of course.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – just make sure if there are any hidden surcharges , etc etc etc they sure like to pad out that bill. you think you know the prices on the menu but when the bill arives That’s not typical of my experience of Paris. I have never had a padded bill there. I never had a padded bill either.  What I HAVE seen, many many times, is that when you enter one of the touristy  restaurants that post "tourist " menus outside (especially in the 5th Arr. on the Left Bank), the waiter will hand you a menu that doesn’t include any of their tourist menus selections. Then, if you ask about the menu outside, you’ll get a characteristically-Parisian-waiter sneer , and he’ll begrudgingly bring you the tourist menu.  True, the better food is on the regular menu.  But if the outside menu is what brought you in, I think it should be on the menu they show you when you sit down, n’est-ce pas? And you shouldn’t be subjected to attitude if you ask for it, either. I have had that experience in some cities (Brussels and Budapest come readily to mind), but not in Paris. I can tolerate waiters’ sneers, so such behaviour does not bother me too much. I have a core attitude which I find helps me: the money in my pocket belongs to me, and it is only I who decides how much of it I spend (not wholly true — my wife participates in the decision-making, but you get the point). Perhaps in Paris it helps that I speak French, albeit not like a native. I can remember only one effort in Paris to up my spend: I ordered a carafe of water (tap water is safe to drink in France) and the waiter brought a bottle of mineral water to the table; I rejected it. The waiter didn’t even sneer. I speak a little French too, so I didn’t really interpret it as being a non-french-speaking thing.   It’s a tourist-thing.  I’ve seen it  at the cheesy tourist restaurants, the ones on the little side streets of the Left Bank, where they all have sandwhich boards sitting out in front of the places w/ fixed price menus.  Those fixed-price menus aren’t on the "regular" menu. I don’t care if they sneer either.  As soon as he starts to pay my bills, I’ll give a crap what the waiter thinks.  :

Question:

We are trying to get from Le Havre to Paris in one day, with a stop for several hours at the D Day beaches, etc.  We will have tons of luggage as just getting off a formal cruise (and I’m not exactly known for packing lightly), so doing the train is too much hassle.  I’ve been quoted about $1K for a private car & driver.  Yikes!  I’ve been trying to rent a car, but my TA has said the minimum rental period is 3 or 4 days & we don’t want a car in Paris.  Does anyone know of any rental companies that will do a one-way within France for 1 day?  Have thought of just doing the 4 day rental & returning early, but this is still about $500 & it makes me sick to pay for those days we don’t use.

Response:

I’ve been trying to rent a car, but my TA has said the minimum rental period is 3 or 4 days & we don’t want a car in Paris.

What this most likely means is that you will pay the three-day rental rate, even if you only have it for one day.  Pick up the phone and call Avis (who do both Le Havre train station and Paris) and ask them.  Their website does say it’s a minimum three day rental, but they’d have to be completely gonzo not to let you bring the car back the same day so that they could then rent it to someone else, while still collecting for 3 days.  You would still pay between $100 and $200 for the 3-day one-way rental, but its cheaper than a grand!

Response:

We are trying to get from Le Havre to Paris in one day, with a stop for several hours at the D Day beaches, etc.  We will have tons of luggage as just getting off a formal cruise (and I’m not exactly known for packing lightly), so doing the train is too much hassle.  I’ve been quoted about $1K for a private car & driver.  Yikes!  I’ve been trying to rent a car, but my TA has said the minimum rental period is 3 or 4 days & we don’t want a car in Paris.  Does anyone know of any rental companies that will do a one-way within France for 1 day?  Have thought of just doing the 4 day rental & returning early, but this is still about $500 & it makes me sick to pay for those days we don’t use.

Surely the cruise company has a system for transferring luggage to a Paris hotel? You could pack an overnight bag just in case you decide to stop somewhere and use public transport. — BMW R1150GS

Response:

We are trying to get from Le Havre to Paris in one day, with a stop for several hours at the D Day beaches, etc.  We will have tons of luggage as just getting off a formal cruise (and I’m not exactly known for packing lightly), so doing the train is too much hassle.  I’ve been quoted about $1K for a private car & driver.  Yikes!  I’ve been trying to rent a car, but my TA has said the minimum rental period is 3 or 4 days & we don’t want a car in Paris.  Does anyone know of any rental companies that will do a one-way within France for 1 day?  Have thought of just doing the 4 day rental & returning early, but this is still about $500 & it makes me sick to pay for those days we don’t use.

I checked using the Avis French page and you could have the car for two days at 205.89 euro. The trick is going to be that you can’t make the reservation "from" the US for less than 3 or 4 days, but have a go. You can always rent there at a higher per day. bonne route!  D

Question:

What I didn’t appreciate is your tone. No need to be so nasty!

How the hell do you get NASTY out of: Ridiculously overpriced? You can go on EasyJet from Amsterdam to a handful of cities in the UK for $25. I do it all the time. No way I’d use any other mode of transport. For all the hassle (ooh, standing in line for 15 minutes and walking through a metal detector) it’s still far and away the fastest and pretty much the cheapest other than an occasional bus/ferry ordeal deal.

That was a perfectly straightforward answer. There could have been the faintest hint of sarcasm (ooh, standing in line for 15 minutes and walking through a metal detector) but if you can find nasty in that, may I strongly suggest you stay home and protect yourself from the great big world. There’s a damned sight more nasty out there than in this ng. Kind regards & Happy New Year Dave Milligan

Response:

For me, in spite of traffic, the easiest way to travel is by car.

Given that I now live in Manchester, I’ve come to find out that "in spite of traffic" can mean a 2 hour delay on occasion. Traffic is horrificly congested in the area, especially at rush hour, obviously. Oh, and I shall have to pat extortion ate rates to leave the car at the airport at my own expense.

Are you _that_ far away from MAN that you can’t get a decent minicab rate? I live in Whitefield (Besses-o-t’-barn technically)- I take the tram, then the train. I shall drive to Hull, take the Hull-Zeebrugge ferry, sleep on board and drive to Strasbourg via Belgium and Luxembourg.  I have done this many times before.  the whole journey will take 24 hours and cost almost three times as much.  And I prefer it!

Well, that’s the main thing. If you prefer it- that’s fine. Also, it means not having to hire a "strange" car while you’re there. David — David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Response:

Are you _that_ far away from MAN that you can’t get a decent minicab rate? I live in Whitefield (Besses-o-t’-barn technically)- I take the tram, then the train.

   Yes, I live in East Lancashire and have no way of getting to the railway station, even by taxi (there are reasons, but too complicated to explain here):  a taxi to the airport  would cost me upwards of

Question:

Hi, Me and my wife are starting our trip to Europe from London 15 Aug 2002. Please advice how can we find cheapest hotels in mentioned places, I understand on internet its little expensive comparative to actual. However I have managed to get 55GBP per night for a three star hotel. I am looking for a clean not fancy room for a couple. any travling agent to call or we should go directly to hotel to find good deal.

Response:

Hi, Me and my wife are starting our trip to Europe from London 15 Aug 2002. Please advice how can we find cheapest hotels in mentioned places, I understand on internet its little expensive comparative to actual.

With popular cities like those, you might want to check out a few travel guides; there are always books in the stores that list cheap hotels. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Hi, Me and my wife are starting our trip to Europe from London 15 Aug 2002. Please advice how can we find cheapest hotels in mentioned places, I understand on internet its little expensive comparative to actual. However I have managed to get 55GBP per night for a three star hotel. I am looking for a clean not fancy room for a couple. any travling agent to call or we should go directly to hotel to find good deal.

check out www.eurocheapo.com … there’s 9 cities covered. Their seriously cheap doubles in Amsterdam are under EUR 50 and their pretty cheap doubles are under EUR 81. Larry

Response:

try www.laterooms.com —

Response:

Hi, Me and my wife are starting our trip to Europe from London 15 Aug 2002. Please advice how can we find cheapest hotels in mentioned places, I understand on internet its little expensive comparative to actual. However I have managed to get 55GBP per night for a three star hotel. I am looking for a clean not fancy room for a couple. any travling agent to call or we should go directly to hotel to find good deal.

Response:

Hi, Me and my wife are starting our trip to Europe from London 15 Aug 2002. Please advice how can we find cheapest hotels in mentioned places, I understand on internet its little expensive comparative to actual.

With popular cities like those, you might want to check out a few travel guides; there are always books in the stores that list cheap hotels. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Hi, Me and my wife are starting our trip to Europe from London 15 Aug 2002. Please advice how can we find cheapest hotels in mentioned places, I understand on internet its little expensive comparative to actual. However I have managed to get 55GBP per night for a three star hotel. I am looking for a clean not fancy room for a couple. any travling agent to call or we should go directly to hotel to find good deal.

check out www.eurocheapo.com … there’s 9 cities covered. Their seriously cheap doubles in Amsterdam are under EUR 50 and their pretty cheap doubles are under EUR 81. Larry

Response:

try www.laterooms.com —

Response:

Question:

Hi all Im taking a break to Amsterdam with my wife and was looking for deals I am travelling from ireland As a popular location there are never deals in the Irish travel agents. i was wondering if there are any websites where I may do well, either booking flights & hotel seperately or together as a package

If you want to be certain where to stay, check out www.lastminute.com   Do be aware that the Dutch site offers more choices than the U.K. site If you want a better deal and are willing to take a chance on where you stay, try www.priceline.co.uk    there are a few sites to help guide your bids.  www.biddingfortravel.com has more Amsterdam stays posted than the U.k. discussion board.  just translate from USD to GBP

Response:

@news.iol.ie: Hi all Im taking a break to Amsterdam with my wife and was looking for deals I am travelling from ireland As a popular location there are never deals in the Irish travel agents.

Have you thought about booking with a UK travel agent and flying from Belfast? Or get a cheap Ryanair flight to a UK airport. Lots of offers on www.teletextholidays.co.uk Bizarrely, some of the call centres advertising on that UK website are in Dublin! — BMW R1150GS Previous bikes CBR6FX, TDM850, VFR750FR & FJ, NX650, GS125ES

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all Im taking a break to Amsterdam with my wife and was looking for deals I am travelling from ireland As a popular location there are never deals in the Irish travel agents. i was wondering if there are any websites where I may do well, either booking flights & hotel seperately or together as a package Any advice greatly appreciated TIA Niall

Check www.aerfares.net for the ‘low cost’ flights – but remember they are not always the cheapest. and www.amstelbotel.com  and http://www.eurocheapo.com/ for hotels.

Response:

Hi all Im taking a break to Amsterdam with my wife and was looking for deals I am travelling from ireland As a popular location there are never deals in the Irish travel agents. i was wondering if there are any websites where I may do well, either booking flights & hotel seperately or together as a package Any advice greatly appreciated TIA Niall

Response:

Hi all Im taking a break to Amsterdam with my wife and was looking for deals I am travelling from ireland As a popular location there are never deals in the Irish travel agents. i was wondering if there are any websites where I may do well, either booking flights & hotel seperately or together as a package Any advice greatly appreciated TIA Niall

Response:

Hi all Im taking a break to Amsterdam with my wife and was looking for deals I am travelling from ireland As a popular location there are never deals in the Irish travel agents. i was wondering if there are any websites where I may do well, either booking flights & hotel seperately or together as a package

If you want to be certain where to stay, check out www.lastminute.com   Do be aware that the Dutch site offers more choices than the U.K. site If you want a better deal and are willing to take a chance on where you stay, try www.priceline.co.uk    there are a few sites to help guide your bids.  www.biddingfortravel.com has more Amsterdam stays posted than the U.k. discussion board.  just translate from USD to GBP

Response:

@news.iol.ie: Hi all Im taking a break to Amsterdam with my wife and was looking for deals I am travelling from ireland As a popular location there are never deals in the Irish travel agents.

Have you thought about booking with a UK travel agent and flying from Belfast? Or get a cheap Ryanair flight to a UK airport. Lots of offers on www.teletextholidays.co.uk Bizarrely, some of the call centres advertising on that UK website are in Dublin! — BMW R1150GS Previous bikes CBR6FX, TDM850, VFR750FR & FJ, NX650, GS125ES

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all Im taking a break to Amsterdam with my wife and was looking for deals I am travelling from ireland As a popular location there are never deals in the Irish travel agents. i was wondering if there are any websites where I may do well, either booking flights & hotel seperately or together as a package Any advice greatly appreciated TIA Niall

Check www.aerfares.net for the ‘low cost’ flights – but remember they are not always the cheapest. and www.amstelbotel.com  and http://www.eurocheapo.com/ for hotels.

Response:

Question:

As I mentioned in a previous posting, some months ago when airfares were amazingly low, my wife and I booked airline reservations on Northwest to and from Seattle for the two weeks of July 6 through July 20. Although our intention was to spend all of that time driving in the U.S. and Canadian Rockies, we decided this week to take a cruise during part of that time to Alaska. For the cruise, we narrowed our choices as follows: Holland America Amsterdam out of Seattle on July 13-20 and Celebrity Infinity out of Vancouver on July 12-19. [Wife wanted to spend first half of vacation driving and second half relaxing on a cruise.] Then came the task of getting prices. After numerous e-mails, phone calls, etc., the difference in prices was amazingly low between the discounters and AAA in Tuscaloosa, AL. For example, the prices for an inside cabin on the Infinity, including fees, taxes, etc., ranged between $900 and $912 per person, with AAA at $912. For the Amsterdam, the prices ranged between $1,100 and $1,150 per person, with AAA at $1,150. Approximately one-half of the discounters also quoted $1,149 or $1,150. Although there was not much of a difference in prices, there was a big difference in the cabin. AAA quoted a price of $1,150 for a guaranteed outside cabin to be assigned when I boarded. With one exception, the discounters’ prices were only for an inside cabin. Decided to go with the Amsterdam and AAA. Although I could have gotten a slightly lower price from a discounter, if anything goes wrong and we are not assigned to an outside cabin, I have someone in my home town whose ass I can kick vigorously. John

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Then came the task of getting prices. After numerous e-mails, phone calls, etc., the difference in prices was amazingly low between the discounters and AAA in Tuscaloosa, AL.

John, I am glad you found a cruise and price that you are happy with. Your experience helps to point out that on many popular sailings, the closer to the sail date you get, the less flexibility there is in pricing.  For example… all group space has either been sold or re-claimed by the cruise line for individual sale.  If the ships are close to full, the cruise lines scramble to sell the last few remaining cabins as guarantees.  As you found out, sometimes travel agency marketing groups or consortiums (like AAA) can offer you a deal that others can’t on a specific sailing. Of course, there are those sailings that are not popular where last-minute pricing can be very attractive. It is that old "supply and demand" thing. Have a great time! — George in PA Countryside Travel www.countryside-travel.com

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I mentioned in a previous posting, some months ago when airfares were amazingly low, my wife and I booked airline reservations on Northwest to and from Seattle for the two weeks of July 6 through July 20. Although our intention was to spend all of that time driving in the U.S. and Canadian Rockies, we decided this week to take a cruise during part of that time to Alaska. For the cruise, we narrowed our choices as follows: Holland America Amsterdam out of Seattle on July 13-20 and Celebrity Infinity out of Vancouver on July 12-19. [Wife wanted to spend first half of vacation driving and second half relaxing on a cruise.] Then came the task of getting prices. After numerous e-mails, phone calls, etc., the difference in prices was amazingly low between the discounters and AAA in Tuscaloosa, AL. For example, the prices for an inside cabin on the Infinity, including fees, taxes, etc., ranged between $900 and $912 per person, with AAA at $912. For the Amsterdam, the prices ranged between $1,100 and $1,150 per person, with AAA at $1,150. Approximately one-half of the discounters also quoted $1,149 or $1,150. Although there was not much of a difference in prices, there was a big difference in the cabin. AAA quoted a price of $1,150 for a guaranteed outside cabin to be assigned when I boarded. With one exception, the discounters’ prices were only for an inside cabin. Decided to go with the Amsterdam and AAA. Although I could have gotten a slightly lower price from a discounter, if anything goes wrong and we are not assigned to an outside cabin, I have someone in my home town whose ass I can kick vigorously. John

Were those prices inclusive, or did they have to add port and taxes?   What was the TOTAL amount? Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

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Chuck, Those were the total amounts. I charged $1,150 twice ($2,300) to my MasterCard for the my and my wife’s reservations for an outside cabin on the Amsterdam. If it had been an inside cabin only, I would have taken the Infinity at a total cost of $900 to $912 per person or $1,800 to $1,824 in total. May very well have gone with a discounter if we had booked on Infinity for an inside cabin is an inside cabin. Will find out if an outside cabin (but no balcony) is worth it, for we can compare that with an inside cabin we had in the early 90’s on Royal Carribean’s Monarch of the Seas (seven day trip to the Southern Carribean). My wife and I are already thinking about taking a cruise at New Year’s on one of the cruise ships leaving out of New Orleans. Can drive there, spend a few nights at my mother’s home, and save on hotel and airfare. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Were those prices inclusive, or did they have to add port and taxes?   What was the TOTAL amount? Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com As I mentioned in a previous posting, some months ago when airfares were amazingly low, my wife and I booked airline reservations on Northwest to and from Seattle for the two weeks of July 6 through July 20. Although our intention was to spend all of that time driving in the U.S. and Canadian Rockies, we decided this week to take a cruise during part of that time to Alaska. For the cruise, we narrowed our choices as follows: Holland America Amsterdam out of Seattle on July 13-20 and Celebrity Infinity out of Vancouver on July 12-19. [Wife wanted to spend first half of vacation driving and second half relaxing on a cruise.] Then came the task of getting prices. After numerous e-mails, phone calls, etc., the difference in prices was amazingly low between the discounters and AAA in Tuscaloosa, AL. For example, the prices for an inside cabin on the Infinity, including fees, taxes, etc., ranged between $900 and $912 per person, with AAA at $912. For the Amsterdam, the prices ranged between $1,100 and $1,150 per person, with AAA at $1,150. Approximately one-half of the discounters also quoted $1,149 or $1,150. Although there was not much of a difference in prices, there was a big difference in the cabin. AAA quoted a price of $1,150 for a guaranteed outside cabin to be assigned when I boarded. With one exception, the discounters’ prices were only for an inside cabin. Decided to go with the Amsterdam and AAA. Although I could have gotten a slightly lower price from a discounter, if anything goes wrong and we are not assigned to an outside cabin, I have someone in my home town whose ass I can kick vigorously. John

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A very honourable way of doing business this, but not quite as old as ladies of the night. The discounter uses his huge intellectual capacity to rebate money from hisc back to the customer. This in effect lowers the fare below what the cruise line itself charges. This can get very dog-eat-dog in a Dutch auction kind of way and creates a lot of unnecessary activity when cruise fares are so low anyway. (Think of all the unnnecessary phone calls and time wasted). So, in conclusion (a) don’t expect much service when these people are "buying" your business and (b) make sure they don’t go out of business while they are are at it because they can’t even afford their own overheads. Kevin Griffin — The Cruise People Ltd, London <http://www.cruisepeople.co.uk Isn’t it High Time you were on the High Seas?

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Chuck, Those were the total amounts. I charged $1,150 twice ($2,300) to my MasterCard for the my and my wife’s reservations for an outside cabin on the Amsterdam. If it had been an inside cabin only, I would have taken the Infinity at a total cost of $900 to $912 per person or $1,800 to $1,824 in total. May very well have gone with a discounter if we had booked on Infinity for an inside cabin is an inside cabin. Will find out if an outside cabin (but no balcony) is worth it, for we can compare that with an inside cabin we had in the early 90’s on Royal Carribean’s Monarch of the Seas (seven day trip to the Southern Carribean).

That’s a pretty good deal.  Prices have risen slightly, as www.cruisequick.com is showing an outside assigned cabin on main deck at $2498 total for 2. My wife and I are already thinking about taking a cruise at New Year’s on one of the cruise ships leaving out of New Orleans. Can drive there, spend a few nights at my mother’s home, and save on hotel and airfare. John

Now that you no longer need a brick and mortar T/A’s hand holding, for your next cruise, check out www.cruisequick.com.  They might be able to save you some money (and a whole lotta bullshit). Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

A very honourable way of doing business this, but not quite as old as ladies of the night.

OH OH, are you saying that ANY travel agent that rebates is a WHORE! I’m sure that SOME of the T/A’s on rtc will be amused at that portrayal. I guess we can assume that you keep ALL of your commission and don’t rebate a dime.  Good for you! The discounter uses his huge intellectual capacity to rebate money from hisc back to the customer.

Sounds like a plan.  Good for the consumer! This in effect lowers the fare below what the cruise line itself charges.

BETTER for the consumer! This can get very dog-eat-dog in a Dutch auction kind of way and creates a lot of unnecessary activity when cruise fares are so low anyway. (Think of all the unnnecessary phone calls and time wasted).

Think of all the PUT OUT (or pissed off) travel agents! So, in conclusion (a) don’t expect much service when these people are "buying" your business and (b) make sure they don’t go out of business while they are are at it because they can’t even afford their own overheads. Kevin Griffin

Hmmm, so I guess we are to gather that the THOUSANDS of travel agencies and agents that have gone belly up did so by REBATING, and that only the agencies that charge FULL PRICE and keep ALL of their commission are still in business? Hmmm, whom to believe? A travel agent in London? A travel agent in Santa Barbara? or A travel agent in PA? Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chuck, Those were the total amounts. I charged $1,150 twice ($2,300) to my MasterCard for the my and my wife’s reservations for an outside cabin on the Amsterdam. If it had been an inside cabin only, I would have taken the Infinity at a total cost of $900 to $912 per person or $1,800 to $1,824 in total. May very well have gone with a discounter if we had booked on Infinity for an inside cabin is an inside cabin. Will find out if an outside cabin (but no balcony) is worth it, for we can compare that with an inside cabin we had in the early 90’s on Royal Carribean’s Monarch of the Seas (seven day trip to the Southern Carribean). That’s a pretty good deal.  Prices have risen slightly, as www.cruisequick.com is showing an outside assigned cabin on main deck at $2498 total for 2. My wife and I are already thinking about taking a cruise at New Year’s on one of the cruise ships leaving out of New Orleans. Can drive there, spend a few nights at my mother’s home, and save on hotel and airfare. John Now that you no longer need a brick and mortar T/A’s hand holding, for your next cruise, check out www.cruisequick.com.  They might be able to save you some money (and a whole lotta bullshit).

Chuck, I have copied and pasted your website to the IE’s address line and bookmarked it. When we decide to go on another cruise (hopefully 2003 New Year), will get a quote from www.cruisequick.com. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

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The quote "an inside cabin is an inside cabin" brings to mind a cruise my wife and I made on the Royal Caribbean Song of America.  We had an inside cabin that was at the extreme bow of the ship.  We hit some rough water as usual going to Bermuda from New York and realized that an inside cabin amidship (near the center of the ship) would have been much better.  We could actually feel the ship hitting the water as it was going up and down. Just thought I would mention this as we learned the hard way. P. J.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chuck, Those were the total amounts. I charged $1,150 twice ($2,300) to my MasterCard for the my and my wife’s reservations for an outside cabin on the Amsterdam. If it had been an inside cabin only, I would have taken the Infinity at a total cost of $900 to $912 per person or $1,800 to $1,824 in total. May very well have gone with a discounter if we had booked on Infinity for an inside cabin is an inside cabin. Will find out if an outside cabin (but no balcony) is worth it, for we can compare that with an inside cabin we had in the early 90’s on Royal Carribean’s Monarch of the Seas (seven day trip to the Southern Carribean). That’s a pretty good deal.  Prices have risen slightly, as www.cruisequick.com is showing an outside assigned cabin on main deck at $2498 total for 2. My wife and I are already thinking about taking a cruise at New Year’s on one of the cruise ships leaving out of New Orleans. Can drive there, spend a few nights at my mother’s home, and save on hotel and airfare. John Now that you no longer need a brick and mortar T/A’s hand holding, for your next cruise, check out www.cruisequick.com.  They might be able to save you some money (and a whole lotta bullshit). Chuck, I have copied and pasted your website to the IE’s address line and bookmarked it. When we decide to go on another cruise (hopefully 2003 New Year), will get a quote from www.cruisequick.com. John Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

Hmmm, so I guess we are to gather that the THOUSANDS of travel agencies and agents that have gone belly up did so by REBATING, and that only the agencies that charge FULL PRICE and keep ALL of their commission are still in business?

Now that’s a pretty good guess Chuck, and not a bad generalization either. You will note that I am not shilling for business here by criticizing rebating, unlike some others here. Kevin Griffin — The Cruise People Ltd, London <http://www.cruisepeople.co.uk Isn’t it High Time you were on the High Seas?

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Now that’s a pretty good guess Chuck, and not a bad generalization either.

That one was an EASY guess! You will note that I am not shilling for business here by criticizing rebating, unlike some others here. Kevin Griffin

No, you’re here shilling for business hoping some MORON will pay you a full commission.  Fortunately, now that we KNOW you not only don’t rebate, but EXPECT someone who books with you to be a complete MORON and throw their money away foolishly, we can safely AVOID using your "service". Still, it was nice to know that you think the other T/A’s who post to rtc AND rebate a portion of their commission back to their customers are WHORES!  Not being a T/A, I can only GUESS what they think of Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

Chuck, I have copied and pasted your website to the IE’s address line and bookmarked it. When we decide to go on another cruise (hopefully 2003 New Year), will get a quote from www.cruisequick.com. John

Sorry John, but it’s NOT my website.  I have absolutely NOTHING to do with www.cruisequick.com, other than being a happy customer of theirs.   I’m just a VERY satisfied consumer who uses them to save a TON on cruise bookings (and enjoys the charters little ‘go around’ that SOME of the regular T/A’s use so effectively to bypass the ADVERTISING restriction). I certainly hope that you too, find www.cruisequick.com can save you some money on your next cruise booking.  If they DO save you some money, please feel free to report back to rtc and let us know.  I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you. Good luck and happy (cheaper) cruising. Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

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I certainly hope that you too, find www.cruisequick.com can save you some money on your next cruise booking.  If they DO save you some money, please feel free to report back to rtc and let us know.  I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you. Good luck and happy (cheaper) cruising.

You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

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are WHORES!  Not being a T/A, I can only GUESS what they think of

Time for you to take one of your Valiums. — Charles

Response:

 I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you.

After all your shilling for this dubious outfit that can only be contacted by e-mail, you would think that if there were any satisfied consumers other than you they would have already posted something. — Charles

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Amber: I did the same thing! Posted under RE Cruisequick! — Sheree Join us on the SGC2003 to Bermuda http://www.hometown.aol.com/sgc2003

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I certainly hope that you too, find www.cruisequick.com can save you some money on your next cruise booking.  If they DO save you some money, please feel free to report back to rtc and let us know.  I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you. Good luck and happy (cheaper) cruising. You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

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Amber, I think this is the only way to get ChuckK to go away. Good job!! (He won’t respond to this I’ll bet because there’s nothing he can say.) June

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I certainly hope that you too, find www.cruisequick.com can save you some money on your next cruise booking.  If they DO save you some money, please feel free to report back to rtc and let us know.  I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you. Good luck and happy (cheaper) cruising. You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

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Chuck will never go away, sadly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amber, I think this is the only way to get ChuckK to go away. Good job!! (He won’t respond to this I’ll bet because there’s nothing he can say.) June

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

Looks like ole Chuck-A-Roo has been exposed. I wonder how much of a kickback he gets. Maybe that is why Cruisequick was higher, does that $150PP go to him? Chris

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Amber, I think this is the only way to get ChuckK to go away. Good job!! (He won’t respond to this I’ll bet because there’s nothing he can say.) June

Hey, can I be a "List Sister" too? I’ll low carb and say "Way to Go" whenever one of my List Sisters makes a smart ass reply and I’ll share my toilet paper and let you screw me mate? Can I?  Can I?  Can I?

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You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

Hmmm, "specific sailing" and "specific category".  I smell a FIX! I never said that www.cruisequick.com will ALWAYS have the lowest price.  Just that one should CHECK to SEE if they have the lowest price (which they usually will, as they are a very DEEP discounter). Your ONE example is, like everything where there is so small a sample, a FLUKE. BTW, if you were so SURE your "traditional TA" was giving you the lowest price, WHY were you shopping his quote?  OBVIOUSLY, you didn’t TRUST him (I wonder WHY).  If you did, there was no reason to SHOP the quote. One other thing.  If you are TRULY going to "shop" a quote, you ought to try 4 or more discounters, instead of the 2 you did.  While www.cruisequick.com may not have had the absolute lowest price for this SPECIFIC cabin/sailing, there is a very likely possibility that ANOTHER cruise discounter could have BEAT your "traditional TA". But you’ll NEVER KNOW! Stick with your "traditional TA".  Now that he knows you won’t be shopping his quotes on the NEXT cruise, I’m sure he’ll get back whatever commission he gave away on the LAST booking. Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com Chuck to send mail, remove the ‘HatesSpam’ from Sometimes you gotta go, where every Claven is insane! Where every Cliffy post spawns flames You gotta be where you can see, that Berman is still inane You gotta be where Cliffy is still insane!

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Amber, I think this is the only way to get ChuckK to go away. Good job!! (He won’t respond to this I’ll bet because there’s nothing he can say.) June

Looks like you’re WRONG (again). Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

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Chuck will never go away, sadly.

On that you can make BOOK! Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

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Chuck: To make a true comparison, I check for 2 different sailings, 2 cruiselines, but the specific sailing and cabin cat I prefer I would not change from the TA I’m using for a few bucks anyway, BUT wanted to check since you claim such big savings I wanted to see if it was real. One cruise was identical and the other was more expensive on cruisequick. Why would someone want to give up having a live person to talk to in case of a problem for just an email service? I’m an experienced cruiser and know what I want and when, it’s just a question of who to book with.  I’ve used several TA’s from RTC and cruisequick hasn’t beaten any of them. — Sheree Join us on the SGC2003 to Bermuda http://www.hometown.aol.com/sgc2003

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare. So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber Hmmm, "specific sailing" and "specific category".  I smell a FIX! I never said that www.cruisequick.com will ALWAYS have the lowest price.  Just that one should CHECK to SEE if they have the lowest price (which they usually will, as they are a very DEEP discounter). Your ONE example is, like everything where there is so small a sample, a FLUKE. BTW, if you were so SURE your "traditional TA" was giving you the lowest price, WHY were you shopping his quote?  OBVIOUSLY, you didn’t TRUST him (I wonder WHY).  If you did, there was no reason to SHOP the quote. One other thing.  If you are TRULY going to "shop" a quote, you ought to try 4 or more discounters, instead of the 2 you did.  While www.cruisequick.com may not have had the absolute lowest price for this SPECIFIC cabin/sailing, there is a very likely possibility that ANOTHER cruise discounter could have BEAT your "traditional TA". But you’ll NEVER KNOW! Stick with your "traditional TA".  Now that he knows you won’t be shopping his quotes on the NEXT cruise, I’m sure he’ll get back whatever commission he gave away on the LAST booking. Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com Chuck to send mail, remove the ‘HatesSpam’ from Sometimes you gotta go, where every Claven is insane! Where every Cliffy post spawns flames You gotta be where you can see, that Berman is still inane You gotta be where Cliffy is still insane!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hmmm, "specific sailing" and "specific category".  I smell a FIX! I never said that www.cruisequick.com will ALWAYS have the lowest price.  Just that one should CHECK to SEE if they have the lowest price (which they usually will, as they are a very DEEP discounter). Your ONE example is, like everything where there is so small a sample, a FLUKE. BTW, if you were so SURE your "traditional TA" was giving you the lowest price, WHY were you shopping his quote?  OBVIOUSLY, you didn’t TRUST him (I wonder WHY).  If you did, there was no reason to SHOP the quote. One other thing.  If you are TRULY going to "shop" a quote, you ought to try 4 or more discounters, instead of the 2 you did.  While www.cruisequick.com may not have had the absolute lowest price for this SPECIFIC cabin/sailing, there is a very likely possibility that ANOTHER cruise discounter could have BEAT your "traditional TA". But you’ll NEVER KNOW! Stick with your "traditional TA".  Now that he knows you won’t be shopping his quotes on the NEXT cruise, I’m sure he’ll get back whatever commission he gave away on the LAST booking.

Chuck, No fix.  I did what was required to check prices with cruisequick – I specified category and sailing.  How else was I to compare?  Oh yes, and I actually had all the agencies (traditional or "discount" give me pricing on more than one sailing as I was trying to decide which one to take).  Not a single time was Cruisequick the lowest. I checked because I had used my previous TA once, and hadn’t done a lot of price checking then.  I was pretty sure I’d gotten a good deal from her, but having learned a lot since then, thought I’d give the "system" a chance. Actually, I got a total of 5 quotes for the sailing I chose, 3 from "discounters" and two from the traditional TAs I mentioned.  I’m not going to nickle and dime over $10-20 difference, and if my previous TA hadn’t been unable to transfer an onboard credit to the sailing I wanted, and would have agreed to book me in a guarantee instead of a specific cabin, I’d have considered staying with her.  NONE of the "discounters" did as well as the TA I’d originally become aware of from this board – not even close.  My former traditional TA was the next closest rate. I wasn’t sure what I was going to find when I first started checking – I went in with an open mind.  And the TA I chose had no idea when originally giving the pricing that I was checking anywhere else.  Nor did the pricing changed when I disclosed that fact. Now Chuck, in one breath you say people should ALWAYS check cruisequick, yet when we say we have an experience where they weren’t lowest, you question why we’d have even checked if we were happy.  Seems a bit hypocritical. Also find it very interesting you automatically presume the TA I chose is a man.   Amber

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As I mentioned in a previous posting, some months ago when airfares were amazingly low, my wife and I booked airline reservations on Northwest to and from Seattle for the two weeks of July 6 through July 20. Although our intention was to spend all of that time driving in the U.S. and Canadian Rockies, we decided this week to take a cruise during part of that time to Alaska. For the cruise, we narrowed our choices as follows: Holland America Amsterdam out of Seattle on July 13-20 and Celebrity Infinity out of Vancouver on July 12-19. [Wife wanted to spend first half of vacation driving and second half relaxing on a cruise.] Then came the task of getting prices. After numerous e-mails, phone calls, etc., the difference in prices was amazingly low between the discounters and AAA in Tuscaloosa, AL. For example, the prices for an inside cabin on the Infinity, including fees, taxes, etc., ranged between $900 and $912 per person, with AAA at $912. For the Amsterdam, the prices ranged between $1,100 and $1,150 per person, with AAA at $1,150. Approximately one-half of the discounters also quoted $1,149 or $1,150. Although there was not much of a difference in prices, there was a big difference in the cabin. AAA quoted a price of $1,150 for a guaranteed outside cabin to be assigned when I boarded. With one exception, the discounters’ prices were only for an inside cabin. Decided to go with the Amsterdam and AAA. Although I could have gotten a slightly lower price from a discounter, if anything goes wrong and we are not assigned to an outside cabin, I have someone in my home town whose ass I can kick vigorously. John

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Then came the task of getting prices. After numerous e-mails, phone calls, etc., the difference in prices was amazingly low between the discounters and AAA in Tuscaloosa, AL.

John, I am glad you found a cruise and price that you are happy with. Your experience helps to point out that on many popular sailings, the closer to the sail date you get, the less flexibility there is in pricing.  For example… all group space has either been sold or re-claimed by the cruise line for individual sale.  If the ships are close to full, the cruise lines scramble to sell the last few remaining cabins as guarantees.  As you found out, sometimes travel agency marketing groups or consortiums (like AAA) can offer you a deal that others can’t on a specific sailing. Of course, there are those sailings that are not popular where last-minute pricing can be very attractive. It is that old "supply and demand" thing. Have a great time! — George in PA Countryside Travel www.countryside-travel.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I mentioned in a previous posting, some months ago when airfares were amazingly low, my wife and I booked airline reservations on Northwest to and from Seattle for the two weeks of July 6 through July 20. Although our intention was to spend all of that time driving in the U.S. and Canadian Rockies, we decided this week to take a cruise during part of that time to Alaska. For the cruise, we narrowed our choices as follows: Holland America Amsterdam out of Seattle on July 13-20 and Celebrity Infinity out of Vancouver on July 12-19. [Wife wanted to spend first half of vacation driving and second half relaxing on a cruise.] Then came the task of getting prices. After numerous e-mails, phone calls, etc., the difference in prices was amazingly low between the discounters and AAA in Tuscaloosa, AL. For example, the prices for an inside cabin on the Infinity, including fees, taxes, etc., ranged between $900 and $912 per person, with AAA at $912. For the Amsterdam, the prices ranged between $1,100 and $1,150 per person, with AAA at $1,150. Approximately one-half of the discounters also quoted $1,149 or $1,150. Although there was not much of a difference in prices, there was a big difference in the cabin. AAA quoted a price of $1,150 for a guaranteed outside cabin to be assigned when I boarded. With one exception, the discounters’ prices were only for an inside cabin. Decided to go with the Amsterdam and AAA. Although I could have gotten a slightly lower price from a discounter, if anything goes wrong and we are not assigned to an outside cabin, I have someone in my home town whose ass I can kick vigorously. John

Were those prices inclusive, or did they have to add port and taxes?   What was the TOTAL amount? Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

Chuck, Those were the total amounts. I charged $1,150 twice ($2,300) to my MasterCard for the my and my wife’s reservations for an outside cabin on the Amsterdam. If it had been an inside cabin only, I would have taken the Infinity at a total cost of $900 to $912 per person or $1,800 to $1,824 in total. May very well have gone with a discounter if we had booked on Infinity for an inside cabin is an inside cabin. Will find out if an outside cabin (but no balcony) is worth it, for we can compare that with an inside cabin we had in the early 90’s on Royal Carribean’s Monarch of the Seas (seven day trip to the Southern Carribean). My wife and I are already thinking about taking a cruise at New Year’s on one of the cruise ships leaving out of New Orleans. Can drive there, spend a few nights at my mother’s home, and save on hotel and airfare. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Were those prices inclusive, or did they have to add port and taxes?   What was the TOTAL amount? Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com As I mentioned in a previous posting, some months ago when airfares were amazingly low, my wife and I booked airline reservations on Northwest to and from Seattle for the two weeks of July 6 through July 20. Although our intention was to spend all of that time driving in the U.S. and Canadian Rockies, we decided this week to take a cruise during part of that time to Alaska. For the cruise, we narrowed our choices as follows: Holland America Amsterdam out of Seattle on July 13-20 and Celebrity Infinity out of Vancouver on July 12-19. [Wife wanted to spend first half of vacation driving and second half relaxing on a cruise.] Then came the task of getting prices. After numerous e-mails, phone calls, etc., the difference in prices was amazingly low between the discounters and AAA in Tuscaloosa, AL. For example, the prices for an inside cabin on the Infinity, including fees, taxes, etc., ranged between $900 and $912 per person, with AAA at $912. For the Amsterdam, the prices ranged between $1,100 and $1,150 per person, with AAA at $1,150. Approximately one-half of the discounters also quoted $1,149 or $1,150. Although there was not much of a difference in prices, there was a big difference in the cabin. AAA quoted a price of $1,150 for a guaranteed outside cabin to be assigned when I boarded. With one exception, the discounters’ prices were only for an inside cabin. Decided to go with the Amsterdam and AAA. Although I could have gotten a slightly lower price from a discounter, if anything goes wrong and we are not assigned to an outside cabin, I have someone in my home town whose ass I can kick vigorously. John

Response:

A very honourable way of doing business this, but not quite as old as ladies of the night. The discounter uses his huge intellectual capacity to rebate money from hisc back to the customer. This in effect lowers the fare below what the cruise line itself charges. This can get very dog-eat-dog in a Dutch auction kind of way and creates a lot of unnecessary activity when cruise fares are so low anyway. (Think of all the unnnecessary phone calls and time wasted). So, in conclusion (a) don’t expect much service when these people are "buying" your business and (b) make sure they don’t go out of business while they are are at it because they can’t even afford their own overheads. Kevin Griffin — The Cruise People Ltd, London <http://www.cruisepeople.co.uk Isn’t it High Time you were on the High Seas?

Response:

Chuck, Those were the total amounts. I charged $1,150 twice ($2,300) to my MasterCard for the my and my wife’s reservations for an outside cabin on the Amsterdam. If it had been an inside cabin only, I would have taken the Infinity at a total cost of $900 to $912 per person or $1,800 to $1,824 in total. May very well have gone with a discounter if we had booked on Infinity for an inside cabin is an inside cabin. Will find out if an outside cabin (but no balcony) is worth it, for we can compare that with an inside cabin we had in the early 90’s on Royal Carribean’s Monarch of the Seas (seven day trip to the Southern Carribean).

That’s a pretty good deal.  Prices have risen slightly, as www.cruisequick.com is showing an outside assigned cabin on main deck at $2498 total for 2. My wife and I are already thinking about taking a cruise at New Year’s on one of the cruise ships leaving out of New Orleans. Can drive there, spend a few nights at my mother’s home, and save on hotel and airfare. John

Now that you no longer need a brick and mortar T/A’s hand holding, for your next cruise, check out www.cruisequick.com.  They might be able to save you some money (and a whole lotta bullshit). Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

A very honourable way of doing business this, but not quite as old as ladies of the night.

OH OH, are you saying that ANY travel agent that rebates is a WHORE! I’m sure that SOME of the T/A’s on rtc will be amused at that portrayal. I guess we can assume that you keep ALL of your commission and don’t rebate a dime.  Good for you! The discounter uses his huge intellectual capacity to rebate money from hisc back to the customer.

Sounds like a plan.  Good for the consumer! This in effect lowers the fare below what the cruise line itself charges.

BETTER for the consumer! This can get very dog-eat-dog in a Dutch auction kind of way and creates a lot of unnecessary activity when cruise fares are so low anyway. (Think of all the unnnecessary phone calls and time wasted).

Think of all the PUT OUT (or pissed off) travel agents! So, in conclusion (a) don’t expect much service when these people are "buying" your business and (b) make sure they don’t go out of business while they are are at it because they can’t even afford their own overheads. Kevin Griffin

Hmmm, so I guess we are to gather that the THOUSANDS of travel agencies and agents that have gone belly up did so by REBATING, and that only the agencies that charge FULL PRICE and keep ALL of their commission are still in business? Hmmm, whom to believe? A travel agent in London? A travel agent in Santa Barbara? or A travel agent in PA? Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chuck, Those were the total amounts. I charged $1,150 twice ($2,300) to my MasterCard for the my and my wife’s reservations for an outside cabin on the Amsterdam. If it had been an inside cabin only, I would have taken the Infinity at a total cost of $900 to $912 per person or $1,800 to $1,824 in total. May very well have gone with a discounter if we had booked on Infinity for an inside cabin is an inside cabin. Will find out if an outside cabin (but no balcony) is worth it, for we can compare that with an inside cabin we had in the early 90’s on Royal Carribean’s Monarch of the Seas (seven day trip to the Southern Carribean). That’s a pretty good deal.  Prices have risen slightly, as www.cruisequick.com is showing an outside assigned cabin on main deck at $2498 total for 2. My wife and I are already thinking about taking a cruise at New Year’s on one of the cruise ships leaving out of New Orleans. Can drive there, spend a few nights at my mother’s home, and save on hotel and airfare. John Now that you no longer need a brick and mortar T/A’s hand holding, for your next cruise, check out www.cruisequick.com.  They might be able to save you some money (and a whole lotta bullshit).

Chuck, I have copied and pasted your website to the IE’s address line and bookmarked it. When we decide to go on another cruise (hopefully 2003 New Year), will get a quote from www.cruisequick.com. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

The quote "an inside cabin is an inside cabin" brings to mind a cruise my wife and I made on the Royal Caribbean Song of America.  We had an inside cabin that was at the extreme bow of the ship.  We hit some rough water as usual going to Bermuda from New York and realized that an inside cabin amidship (near the center of the ship) would have been much better.  We could actually feel the ship hitting the water as it was going up and down. Just thought I would mention this as we learned the hard way. P. J.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chuck, Those were the total amounts. I charged $1,150 twice ($2,300) to my MasterCard for the my and my wife’s reservations for an outside cabin on the Amsterdam. If it had been an inside cabin only, I would have taken the Infinity at a total cost of $900 to $912 per person or $1,800 to $1,824 in total. May very well have gone with a discounter if we had booked on Infinity for an inside cabin is an inside cabin. Will find out if an outside cabin (but no balcony) is worth it, for we can compare that with an inside cabin we had in the early 90’s on Royal Carribean’s Monarch of the Seas (seven day trip to the Southern Carribean). That’s a pretty good deal.  Prices have risen slightly, as www.cruisequick.com is showing an outside assigned cabin on main deck at $2498 total for 2. My wife and I are already thinking about taking a cruise at New Year’s on one of the cruise ships leaving out of New Orleans. Can drive there, spend a few nights at my mother’s home, and save on hotel and airfare. John Now that you no longer need a brick and mortar T/A’s hand holding, for your next cruise, check out www.cruisequick.com.  They might be able to save you some money (and a whole lotta bullshit). Chuck, I have copied and pasted your website to the IE’s address line and bookmarked it. When we decide to go on another cruise (hopefully 2003 New Year), will get a quote from www.cruisequick.com. John Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

Hmmm, so I guess we are to gather that the THOUSANDS of travel agencies and agents that have gone belly up did so by REBATING, and that only the agencies that charge FULL PRICE and keep ALL of their commission are still in business?

Now that’s a pretty good guess Chuck, and not a bad generalization either. You will note that I am not shilling for business here by criticizing rebating, unlike some others here. Kevin Griffin — The Cruise People Ltd, London <http://www.cruisepeople.co.uk Isn’t it High Time you were on the High Seas?

Response:

Now that’s a pretty good guess Chuck, and not a bad generalization either.

That one was an EASY guess! You will note that I am not shilling for business here by criticizing rebating, unlike some others here. Kevin Griffin

No, you’re here shilling for business hoping some MORON will pay you a full commission.  Fortunately, now that we KNOW you not only don’t rebate, but EXPECT someone who books with you to be a complete MORON and throw their money away foolishly, we can safely AVOID using your "service". Still, it was nice to know that you think the other T/A’s who post to rtc AND rebate a portion of their commission back to their customers are WHORES!  Not being a T/A, I can only GUESS what they think of Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

Chuck, I have copied and pasted your website to the IE’s address line and bookmarked it. When we decide to go on another cruise (hopefully 2003 New Year), will get a quote from www.cruisequick.com. John

Sorry John, but it’s NOT my website.  I have absolutely NOTHING to do with www.cruisequick.com, other than being a happy customer of theirs.   I’m just a VERY satisfied consumer who uses them to save a TON on cruise bookings (and enjoys the charters little ‘go around’ that SOME of the regular T/A’s use so effectively to bypass the ADVERTISING restriction). I certainly hope that you too, find www.cruisequick.com can save you some money on your next cruise booking.  If they DO save you some money, please feel free to report back to rtc and let us know.  I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you. Good luck and happy (cheaper) cruising. Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

I certainly hope that you too, find www.cruisequick.com can save you some money on your next cruise booking.  If they DO save you some money, please feel free to report back to rtc and let us know.  I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you. Good luck and happy (cheaper) cruising.

You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

Response:

are WHORES!  Not being a T/A, I can only GUESS what they think of

Time for you to take one of your Valiums. — Charles

Response:

 I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you.

After all your shilling for this dubious outfit that can only be contacted by e-mail, you would think that if there were any satisfied consumers other than you they would have already posted something. — Charles

Response:

Amber: I did the same thing! Posted under RE Cruisequick! — Sheree Join us on the SGC2003 to Bermuda http://www.hometown.aol.com/sgc2003

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I certainly hope that you too, find www.cruisequick.com can save you some money on your next cruise booking.  If they DO save you some money, please feel free to report back to rtc and let us know.  I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you. Good luck and happy (cheaper) cruising. You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

Response:

Amber, I think this is the only way to get ChuckK to go away. Good job!! (He won’t respond to this I’ll bet because there’s nothing he can say.) June

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I certainly hope that you too, find www.cruisequick.com can save you some money on your next cruise booking.  If they DO save you some money, please feel free to report back to rtc and let us know.  I’m CERTAIN the travel agents (especially the ONE MAN shop T/A’s who work out of their homes) will appreciate hearing from other people who saved a TON of money over booking with them.  I KNOW that other actual consumers will certainly enjoy hearing from you. Good luck and happy (cheaper) cruising. You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

Response:

Chuck will never go away, sadly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amber, I think this is the only way to get ChuckK to go away. Good job!! (He won’t respond to this I’ll bet because there’s nothing he can say.) June

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

Looks like ole Chuck-A-Roo has been exposed. I wonder how much of a kickback he gets. Maybe that is why Cruisequick was higher, does that $150PP go to him? Chris

Response:

Amber, I think this is the only way to get ChuckK to go away. Good job!! (He won’t respond to this I’ll bet because there’s nothing he can say.) June

Hey, can I be a "List Sister" too? I’ll low carb and say "Way to Go" whenever one of my List Sisters makes a smart ass reply and I’ll share my toilet paper and let you screw me mate? Can I?  Can I?  Can I?

Response:

You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare.  So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber

Hmmm, "specific sailing" and "specific category".  I smell a FIX! I never said that www.cruisequick.com will ALWAYS have the lowest price.  Just that one should CHECK to SEE if they have the lowest price (which they usually will, as they are a very DEEP discounter). Your ONE example is, like everything where there is so small a sample, a FLUKE. BTW, if you were so SURE your "traditional TA" was giving you the lowest price, WHY were you shopping his quote?  OBVIOUSLY, you didn’t TRUST him (I wonder WHY).  If you did, there was no reason to SHOP the quote. One other thing.  If you are TRULY going to "shop" a quote, you ought to try 4 or more discounters, instead of the 2 you did.  While www.cruisequick.com may not have had the absolute lowest price for this SPECIFIC cabin/sailing, there is a very likely possibility that ANOTHER cruise discounter could have BEAT your "traditional TA". But you’ll NEVER KNOW! Stick with your "traditional TA".  Now that he knows you won’t be shopping his quotes on the NEXT cruise, I’m sure he’ll get back whatever commission he gave away on the LAST booking. Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com Chuck to send mail, remove the ‘HatesSpam’ from Sometimes you gotta go, where every Claven is insane! Where every Cliffy post spawns flames You gotta be where you can see, that Berman is still inane You gotta be where Cliffy is still insane!

Response:

Amber, I think this is the only way to get ChuckK to go away. Good job!! (He won’t respond to this I’ll bet because there’s nothing he can say.) June

Looks like you’re WRONG (again). Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

Chuck will never go away, sadly.

On that you can make BOOK! Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com

Response:

Chuck: To make a true comparison, I check for 2 different sailings, 2 cruiselines, but the specific sailing and cabin cat I prefer I would not change from the TA I’m using for a few bucks anyway, BUT wanted to check since you claim such big savings I wanted to see if it was real. One cruise was identical and the other was more expensive on cruisequick. Why would someone want to give up having a live person to talk to in case of a problem for just an email service? I’m an experienced cruiser and know what I want and when, it’s just a question of who to book with.  I’ve used several TA’s from RTC and cruisequick hasn’t beaten any of them. — Sheree Join us on the SGC2003 to Bermuda http://www.hometown.aol.com/sgc2003

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, Chuck, I’ve been watching you go on and on about cruisequick for several months now.  When planning my next cruise, I contacted my past TA, a TA who often participates on this board in a very professional manner (and is a one-person shop), and just out of curiosity, cruisequick.  Guess who was highest?  CRUISEQUICK!  They had by more than $150PP the most expensive quote I received on the specific sailing in a specific category. Oh yes, and the one-person TA from this newsgroup had the lowest fare. So not only do I get a fantastic fare, I get superb customer service and a person I can call or email and actually speak with, and a better category cabin to boot. Safe to say I’m sticking with a traditional TA. Amber Hmmm, "specific sailing" and "specific category".  I smell a FIX! I never said that www.cruisequick.com will ALWAYS have the lowest price.  Just that one should CHECK to SEE if they have the lowest price (which they usually will, as they are a very DEEP discounter). Your ONE example is, like everything where there is so small a sample, a FLUKE. BTW, if you were so SURE your "traditional TA" was giving you the lowest price, WHY were you shopping his quote?  OBVIOUSLY, you didn’t TRUST him (I wonder WHY).  If you did, there was no reason to SHOP the quote. One other thing.  If you are TRULY going to "shop" a quote, you ought to try 4 or more discounters, instead of the 2 you did.  While www.cruisequick.com may not have had the absolute lowest price for this SPECIFIC cabin/sailing, there is a very likely possibility that ANOTHER cruise discounter could have BEAT your "traditional TA". But you’ll NEVER KNOW! Stick with your "traditional TA".  Now that he knows you won’t be shopping his quotes on the NEXT cruise, I’m sure he’ll get back whatever commission he gave away on the LAST booking. Chuck for a great deal on your next cruise, check out: www.cruisequick.com Chuck to send mail, remove the ‘HatesSpam’ from Sometimes you gotta go, where every Claven is insane! Where every Cliffy post spawns flames You gotta be where you can see, that Berman is still inane You gotta be where Cliffy is still insane!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hmmm, "specific sailing" and "specific category".  I smell a FIX! I never said that www.cruisequick.com will ALWAYS have the lowest price.  Just that one should CHECK to SEE if they have the lowest price (which they usually will, as they are a very DEEP discounter). Your ONE example is, like everything where there is so small a sample, a FLUKE. BTW, if you were so SURE your "traditional TA" was giving you the lowest price, WHY were you shopping his quote?  OBVIOUSLY, you didn’t TRUST him (I wonder WHY).  If you did, there was no reason to SHOP the quote. One other thing.  If you are TRULY going to "shop" a quote, you ought to try 4 or more discounters, instead of the 2 you did.  While www.cruisequick.com may not have had the absolute lowest price for this SPECIFIC cabin/sailing, there is a very likely possibility that ANOTHER cruise discounter could have BEAT your "traditional TA". But you’ll NEVER KNOW! Stick with your "traditional TA".  Now that he knows you won’t be shopping his quotes on the NEXT cruise, I’m sure he’ll get back whatever commission he gave away on the LAST booking.

Chuck, No fix.  I did what was required to check prices with cruisequick – I specified category and sailing.  How else was I to compare?  Oh yes, and I actually had all the agencies (traditional or "discount" give me pricing on more than one sailing as I was trying to decide which one to take).  Not a single time was Cruisequick the lowest. I checked because I had used my previous TA once, and hadn’t done a lot of price checking then.  I was pretty sure I’d gotten a good deal from her, but having learned a lot since then, thought I’d give the "system" a chance. Actually, I got a total of 5 quotes for the sailing I chose, 3 from "discounters" and two from the traditional TAs I mentioned.  I’m not going to nickle and dime over $10-20 difference, and if my previous TA hadn’t been unable to transfer an onboard credit to the sailing I wanted, and would have agreed to book me in a guarantee instead of a specific cabin, I’d have considered staying with her.  NONE of the "discounters" did as well as the TA I’d originally become aware of from this board – not even close.  My former traditional TA was the next closest rate. I wasn’t sure what I was going to find when I first started checking – I went in with an open mind.  And the TA I chose had no idea when originally giving the pricing that I was checking anywhere else.  Nor did the pricing changed when I disclosed that fact. Now Chuck, in one breath you say people should ALWAYS check cruisequick, yet when we say we have an experience where they weren’t lowest, you question why we’d have even checked if we were happy.  Seems a bit hypocritical. Also find it very interesting you automatically presume the TA I chose is a man.   Amber

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It’s our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)  I’m responsible for the transportation logistics and wanted your thoughts on which pass would be the best based the following itinerary: Day 1-3 Rome Day 4-6 Siena & Florence Day 7-8 Venice Day 9-10 Vienna Day 11-12 Prague Day 13-14 Romantic Road Day 15 Munich and/or Salzburg Day 16-17 Lucerne Day 18-19 In and about Gimmewald and the Jungfrau Day 20 Chamonix and Mont Blanc!!!! (no hiking just the cable ride) Day 21-24 Paris Here’s what I was thinking: 15 day consecutive saver Eurail Pass with Prague Excursion Pass.  I plan to purchase point to point tickets from Rome to Florence/Siena or take the bus and not activate the pass until leaving for Florence.  Are there better options?  Unfortunately, my wife and I are older than 26 and do not qualify for the student passes. Given this itinerary, can anyone recommend any night trains (e.g. Venice to Vienna)? Currently, I trying to decrypt the Deutsche Bahn Schedule Website (second cousin to the enigma machine and hope to have it understood before too long. Finally, I’m inclined to purchase my tickets from the Rick Steves web site but wanted to know if there were better options out there.

Wow! Thanks all for the good advice.  My wife and I have rearranged our itinerary (it’s less ambitious and probably less stressful Have a great day! chris

Response:

Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It’s our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)  I’m responsible for the transportation logistics and wanted your thoughts on which pass would be the best based the following itinerary:

[ itinerary and other comments snipped ] The itinerary you’re thinking of would leave me exhausted and I’m an indefatigable traveller who regularly tires out her travelling companions. Two of your 24 days are spent on travel to and from the US. Then your itinerary (with 11 stops) will consume another 10 days. Thus your 24 days end up getting whittled down to 12 days of actual exploring. Even a short journey, such as that from Rome to Florence consumes a whole day, when it involves packing, checking out, getting to the train station, getting to the new destination, finding out how best to get to the hotel, getting a cab, checking in and unpacking. By then even going out to dinner seems like a chore. I would suggest considering this abbreviated plan: Italy, EITHER Austria OR Switzerland and then Paris. This would give your trip a good deal of variety. It would be like a three-course meal rather than a smorgasbord, but you would also be less likely to suffer indigestion. I would especially allow more time in Rome, partly because I love that city, but also because it’s your first stop and it’s a good idea to relax and get your bearings before hitting the road again. I would leave Siena for your next, more in-depth trip. It really deserves more than a quick look. If you want to see some smaller charming Italian town, which is a good idea, I suggest one of the following: take a day trip to Orvieto while you’re in Rome. It’s an easy train ride away and is a small medieval city with a well-preserved and compact center, and also with a very beautiful cathedral. Or while you’re in Florence, go to Fiesole, a small town on a hill overlooking Florence, with a museum of the ancient Etruscan inhabitants of the town. This can be done in less than a day, on the city bus. As far as rail passes are concerned, they are really not needed for Italy, which has very reasonable train fares. For example, both the trip from Rome to Florence and that from Florence to Venice would be about $25 on 2nd class Eurostar trains. (Eurostar is the most expensive category of train, and 2nd class is quite comfortable on these trains.) If you take my advice and cut your itinerary, you might not want any rail pass. You could get a ticket from Venice to Paris with a stopover in your intermediate destination and it would probably cost less than a rail pass. About seven years ago, I took a train from Venice to Amsterdam with stopovers in Salzburg and Frankfurt and the ticket was cheaper than the cheapest rail pass. I bought a basic ticket on the cheapest category of train and upgraded the individual segments as I went along, depending on which trains fit my schedule best. Barbara

Response:

Way to much travel.  If you limit your itinerary to a more enjoyable amount, you might look into a 4 or 5 day in 2 months pass.  Use it for the long trips and buy a local ticket for the short jaunts.  If you figure 4 days Paris and 5 hours to the South of France, with a day or 4 in Provence then go to Northern Italy / Tuscany you have a nice trip with a return via a couple of days in Saltzburg and then on to Munich.  From Venice to Rome, must be 12 hours on the train.   So roundtrip is a complete day on the train.  From Venice to Munich is an overnight jaunt. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It’s our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)  I’m responsible for the transportation logistics and wanted your thoughts on which pass would be the best based the following itinerary: Day 1-3 Rome Day 4-6 Siena & Florence Day 7-8 Venice Day 9-10 Vienna Day 11-12 Prague Day 13-14 Romantic Road Day 15 Munich and/or Salzburg Day 16-17 Lucerne Day 18-19 In and about Gimmewald and the Jungfrau Day 20 Chamonix and Mont Blanc!!!! (no hiking just the cable ride) Day 21-24 Paris Here’s what I was thinking: 15 day consecutive saver Eurail Pass with Prague Excursion Pass.  I plan to purchase point to point tickets from Rome to Florence/Siena or take the bus and not activate the pass until leaving for Florence.  Are there better options?  Unfortunately, my wife and I are older than 26 and do not qualify for the student passes. Given this itinerary, can anyone recommend any night trains (e.g. Venice to Vienna)? Currently, I trying to decrypt the Deutsche Bahn Schedule Website (second cousin to the enigma machine and hope to have it understood before too long. Finally, I’m inclined to purchase my tickets from the Rick Steves web site but wanted to know if there were better options out there. Thanks for any assistance you can provide. Have a great day, chris

Response:

You could always try a cruise for a major portion of the trip, with a shorter land tour before or after to get into some of the places that a ship can’t take you.  There are several US based cruise lines that do European cruises – Princess, Holland America, Celebrity, etc.  One of the best (I think) for what you’re trying to do would be Princess’ Mediteranean itinerary.  By doing a cruise, at least you’re in the same "hotel" every night and don’t have to pack and unpack.  The ship takes you to a different port while you sleep.  You can get the flavor of a place, more or less determined by how you plan your day.  Even these itineraries are exhausting if trying to "do it all" so I can’t imagine what it would be like trying to travel via your original planning thoughts. Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Way to much travel.  If you limit your itinerary to a more enjoyable amount, you might look into a 4 or 5 day in 2 months pass.  Use it for the long trips and buy a local ticket for the short jaunts.  If you figure 4 days

Response:

Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It’s our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)

With a sample platter at a restaurant, you don’t have to pack, travel for hours, and unpack between each selection. It would be nice if you could check into a hotel and have someone bring the great cities of Europe to you every day, but short of a transporter beam, this isn’t possible.  I suppose the Epcot World Showcase is the closest to this as you can get, but it ain’t the real thing. Rather than trying to maximize the number of _locations_ to visit, instead try to maximize your _enjoyment_ of each location that you DO visit.  On a wedding anniversary, spending less than a week in Paris somehow seems quite unromantic.  With your current itinerary, you’ll spend more time and hassle travelling between sites than actually seeing and enjoying the locations. For example, it takes about 6 hours by train to go from Vienna to Prague and then 7-10 hours from Prague to Munich, not including hotel checkin/out, transport to/from the hotel (Prague’s main train station is , and wait time. So how much time do you think you’ll have to actually see Prague in the 2 days you’ve allocated? And don’t expect that you’ll be able to get on that night train and wake up nicely refreshed for the full day of siteseeing you’ve planned ahead. Sorry, but a sleeping car is NOT a hotel room. With an itinerary such as yours, you might want to schedule an appointment now with your divorce lawyers for when you get back. ;-[

Response:

Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It's our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)  I'm responsible for the transportation logistics and wanted your thoughts on which pass would be the best based the following itinerary: Day 1-3 Rome Day 4-6 Siena & Florence Day 7-8 Venice Day 9-10 Vienna Day 11-12 Prague Day 13-14 Romantic Road Day 15 Munich and/or Salzburg Day 16-17 Lucerne Day 18-19 In and about Gimmewald and the Jungfrau Day 20 Chamonix and Mont Blanc!!!! (no hiking just the cable ride) Day 21-24 Paris Here's what I was thinking: 15 day consecutive saver Eurail Pass with Prague Excursion Pass.  I plan to purchase point to point tickets from Rome to Florence/Siena or take the bus and not activate the pass until leaving for Florence.  Are there better options?  Unfortunately, my wife and I are older than 26 and do not qualify for the student passes. Given this itinerary, can anyone recommend any night trains (e.g. Venice to Vienna)? Currently, I trying to decrypt the Deutsche Bahn Schedule Website (second cousin to the enigma machine and hope to have it understood before too long. Finally, I'm inclined to purchase my tickets from the Rick Steves web site but wanted to know if there were better options out there. Thanks for any assistance you can provide. Have a great day, chris

Response:

It's our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)

I generally recommend agaist a whirlwind tour of Europe, and suggest seeing no more than one country per week, even on a first trip. You're planning to visit Italy, Austria, the Czech Republic,, Switzerland and France in three and a half weeks, and I think that's just too much. Finally, I'm inclined to purchase my tickets from the Rick Steves web site but wanted to know if there were better options out there.

For passes, try http://www.railpass.com/. For point to point tickets, try http://www.bahn.de/. Avoid Rail Europe; I won't even mention its web site. -- Francais / English / Esperanto Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq

Response:

Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It's our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)  I'm responsible for the transportation logistics and wanted your thoughts on which pass would be the best based the following itinerary: Day 1-3 Rome Day 4-6 Siena & Florence Day 7-8 Venice Day 9-10 Vienna Day 11-12 Prague Day 13-14 Romantic Road Day 15 Munich and/or Salzburg Day 16-17 Lucerne Day 18-19 In and about Gimmewald and the Jungfrau Day 20 Chamonix and Mont Blanc!!!! (no hiking just the cable ride) Day 21-24 Paris Here's what I was thinking: 15 day consecutive saver Eurail Pass with Prague Excursion Pass.  I plan to purchase point to point tickets from Rome to Florence/Siena or take the bus and not activate the pass until leaving for Florence.  Are there better options?  Unfortunately, my wife and I are older than 26 and do not qualify for the student passes. Given this itinerary, can anyone recommend any night trains (e.g. Venice to Vienna)? Currently, I trying to decrypt the Deutsche Bahn Schedule Website (second cousin to the enigma machine and hope to have it understood before too long. Finally, I'm inclined to purchase my tickets from the Rick Steves web site but wanted to know if there were better options out there. Thanks for any assistance you can provide. Have a great day, chris

Response:

It's our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)

I generally recommend agaist a whirlwind tour of Europe, and suggest seeing no more than one country per week, even on a first trip. You're planning to visit Italy, Austria, the Czech Republic,, Switzerland and France in three and a half weeks, and I think that's just too much. Finally, I'm inclined to purchase my tickets from the Rick Steves web site but wanted to know if there were better options out there.

For passes, try http://www.railpass.com/. For point to point tickets, try http://www.bahn.de/. Avoid Rail Europe; I won't even mention its web site. -- Francais / English / Esperanto Esperanto FAQ: http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq.html Rec.travel.europe FAQ: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/travel/europe/faq

Response:

Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It's our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)

With a sample platter at a restaurant, you don't have to pack, travel for hours, and unpack between each selection. It would be nice if you could check into a hotel and have someone bring the great cities of Europe to you every day, but short of a transporter beam, this isn't possible.  I suppose the Epcot World Showcase is the closest to this as you can get, but it ain't the real thing. Rather than trying to maximize the number of _locations_ to visit, instead try to maximize your _enjoyment_ of each location that you DO visit.  On a wedding anniversary, spending less than a week in Paris somehow seems quite unromantic.  With your current itinerary, you'll spend more time and hassle travelling between sites than actually seeing and enjoying the locations. For example, it takes about 6 hours by train to go from Vienna to Prague and then 7-10 hours from Prague to Munich, not including hotel checkin/out, transport to/from the hotel (Prague's main train station is , and wait time. So how much time do you think you'll have to actually see Prague in the 2 days you've allocated? And don't expect that you'll be able to get on that night train and wake up nicely refreshed for the full day of siteseeing you've planned ahead. Sorry, but a sleeping car is NOT a hotel room. With an itinerary such as yours, you might want to schedule an appointment now with your divorce lawyers for when you get back. ;-[

Response:

Way to much travel.  If you limit your itinerary to a more enjoyable amount, you might look into a 4 or 5 day in 2 months pass.  Use it for the long trips and buy a local ticket for the short jaunts.  If you figure 4 days Paris and 5 hours to the South of France, with a day or 4 in Provence then go to Northern Italy / Tuscany you have a nice trip with a return via a couple of days in Saltzburg and then on to Munich.  From Venice to Rome, must be 12 hours on the train.   So roundtrip is a complete day on the train.  From Venice to Munich is an overnight jaunt. Bill - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It's our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)  I'm responsible for the transportation logistics and wanted your thoughts on which pass would be the best based the following itinerary: Day 1-3 Rome Day 4-6 Siena & Florence Day 7-8 Venice Day 9-10 Vienna Day 11-12 Prague Day 13-14 Romantic Road Day 15 Munich and/or Salzburg Day 16-17 Lucerne Day 18-19 In and about Gimmewald and the Jungfrau Day 20 Chamonix and Mont Blanc!!!! (no hiking just the cable ride) Day 21-24 Paris Here's what I was thinking: 15 day consecutive saver Eurail Pass with Prague Excursion Pass.  I plan to purchase point to point tickets from Rome to Florence/Siena or take the bus and not activate the pass until leaving for Florence.  Are there better options?  Unfortunately, my wife and I are older than 26 and do not qualify for the student passes. Given this itinerary, can anyone recommend any night trains (e.g. Venice to Vienna)? Currently, I trying to decrypt the Deutsche Bahn Schedule Website (second cousin to the enigma machine and hope to have it understood before too long. Finally, I'm inclined to purchase my tickets from the Rick Steves web site but wanted to know if there were better options out there. Thanks for any assistance you can provide. Have a great day, chris

Response:

You could always try a cruise for a major portion of the trip, with a shorter land tour before or after to get into some of the places that a ship can't take you.  There are several US based cruise lines that do European cruises - Princess, Holland America, Celebrity, etc.  One of the best (I think) for what you're trying to do would be Princess' Mediteranean itinerary.  By doing a cruise, at least you're in the same "hotel" every night and don't have to pack and unpack.  The ship takes you to a different port while you sleep.  You can get the flavor of a place, more or less determined by how you plan your day.  Even these itineraries are exhausting if trying to "do it all" so I can't imagine what it would be like trying to travel via your original planning thoughts. Denise - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Way to much travel.  If you limit your itinerary to a more enjoyable amount, you might look into a 4 or 5 day in 2 months pass.  Use it for the long trips and buy a local ticket for the short jaunts.  If you figure 4 days

Response:

Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It's our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)  I'm responsible for the transportation logistics and wanted your thoughts on which pass would be the best based the following itinerary:

[ itinerary and other comments snipped ] The itinerary you’re thinking of would leave me exhausted and I’m an indefatigable traveller who regularly tires out her travelling companions. Two of your 24 days are spent on travel to and from the US. Then your itinerary (with 11 stops) will consume another 10 days. Thus your 24 days end up getting whittled down to 12 days of actual exploring. Even a short journey, such as that from Rome to Florence consumes a whole day, when it involves packing, checking out, getting to the train station, getting to the new destination, finding out how best to get to the hotel, getting a cab, checking in and unpacking. By then even going out to dinner seems like a chore. I would suggest considering this abbreviated plan: Italy, EITHER Austria OR Switzerland and then Paris. This would give your trip a good deal of variety. It would be like a three-course meal rather than a smorgasbord, but you would also be less likely to suffer indigestion. I would especially allow more time in Rome, partly because I love that city, but also because it’s your first stop and it’s a good idea to relax and get your bearings before hitting the road again. I would leave Siena for your next, more in-depth trip. It really deserves more than a quick look. If you want to see some smaller charming Italian town, which is a good idea, I suggest one of the following: take a day trip to Orvieto while you’re in Rome. It’s an easy train ride away and is a small medieval city with a well-preserved and compact center, and also with a very beautiful cathedral. Or while you’re in Florence, go to Fiesole, a small town on a hill overlooking Florence, with a museum of the ancient Etruscan inhabitants of the town. This can be done in less than a day, on the city bus. As far as rail passes are concerned, they are really not needed for Italy, which has very reasonable train fares. For example, both the trip from Rome to Florence and that from Florence to Venice would be about $25 on 2nd class Eurostar trains. (Eurostar is the most expensive category of train, and 2nd class is quite comfortable on these trains.) If you take my advice and cut your itinerary, you might not want any rail pass. You could get a ticket from Venice to Paris with a stopover in your intermediate destination and it would probably cost less than a rail pass. About seven years ago, I took a train from Venice to Amsterdam with stopovers in Salzburg and Frankfurt and the ticket was cheaper than the cheapest rail pass. I bought a basic ticket on the cheapest category of train and upgraded the individual segments as I went along, depending on which trains fit my schedule best. Barbara

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Fellow Travelers For our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife and I are "thinking outside the box" and  have planned a whirlwind tour of Europe (24 days).  It’s our first trip to mainland Europe (UK, been there done that and our goal is to approach the trip like one would a sampler platter at a restaurant (a little bit of this and a little bit of that..)  I’m responsible for the transportation logistics and wanted your thoughts on which pass would be the best based the following itinerary: Day 1-3 Rome Day 4-6 Siena & Florence Day 7-8 Venice Day 9-10 Vienna Day 11-12 Prague Day 13-14 Romantic Road Day 15 Munich and/or Salzburg Day 16-17 Lucerne Day 18-19 In and about Gimmewald and the Jungfrau Day 20 Chamonix and Mont Blanc!!!! (no hiking just the cable ride) Day 21-24 Paris Here’s what I was thinking: 15 day consecutive saver Eurail Pass with Prague Excursion Pass.  I plan to purchase point to point tickets from Rome to Florence/Siena or take the bus and not activate the pass until leaving for Florence.  Are there better options?  Unfortunately, my wife and I are older than 26 and do not qualify for the student passes. Given this itinerary, can anyone recommend any night trains (e.g. Venice to Vienna)? Currently, I trying to decrypt the Deutsche Bahn Schedule Website (second cousin to the enigma machine and hope to have it understood before too long. Finally, I’m inclined to purchase my tickets from the Rick Steves web site but wanted to know if there were better options out there.

Wow! Thanks all for the good advice.  My wife and I have rearranged our itinerary (it’s less ambitious and probably less stressful Have a great day! chris

Response:

Question:

My office was on Rue Washington, just off of the Champs… being that Paris is one of the top and great destinations, I always felt the drinks came at a discount… there is only one Champs… I feel the same about a drink in San Marco… location … location… location! My grip was always with the taxi driver’s of Parisand their habbit of rolling down the window less than a mm to inquire your destination. jay Wed, Feb 27, 2002 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its the overcharging by cafes and bars that pisses me off YOU MUST check the prices before you sit down at a cafe especially outside on the pavement. in the better parts of  town you could die of shock when you get the bill for drinks and snacks.  (PLUS TIP ,PLUS SERVICE CHARGE ) THERE ARE SO MANY HIDDEN EXTRAS ON THE TAB ,YOU NEED AN ACCOUNTANT WITH YOU a beer could cost 100 times more than you pay back home in the US 30 time s more than in the UK at a pavement bar. the PRICES AT A BAR IN PARIS ARE ASTRONOMICAL BEWARE PAY FOR THE DRINK FIRST BEFORE YOU TASTE IT , THEN IF YOU GET A MASSIVE BILL JUST WALK AWAY. I HAVE FOUND OUT FROM EXPERIENCE THAT THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO BUY A DRINK IN PARIS THEY WILL ALWAYS TRY TO RIP YOU OFF WHEN YOU WALK AWAY TO AVOID BEING RIPPED THEIR JAW WILL DROP AS YOU WILL HAVE OUTWITTED THEM !

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

Its the overcharging by cafes and bars that pisses me off YOU MUST check the prices before you sit down at a cafe especially outside on the pavement.

All prices must be displayed. There are however, different prices for the different levels of service. Usually a seat outside will result in the highest of these. the cheapest is to buy at the bar inside, but if you try to sit outside with that drink, be prepared to pay for the priviledge. I seriously doubt if anyone has ever been charged 100 times more than they would expect for a beer in any industrial country anywhere in the world though in some locations the price will be higher for the location.

Response:

You don’t only pay for a drink, you pay also for the pleasure to enjoy, as long as you want, the scene of thousand of people passing by. No tip, it’s already included in the service charges !! The price printed on the menu is the price you have to pay. IT’S THE LAW. No extra taxes, no extra tip. Olivier – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its the overcharging by cafes and bars that pisses me off YOU MUST check the prices before you sit down at a cafe especially outside on the pavement. in the better parts of  town you could die of shock when you get the bill for drinks and snacks.  (PLUS TIP ,PLUS SERVICE CHARGE ) THERE ARE SO MANY HIDDEN EXTRAS ON THE TAB ,YOU NEED AN ACCOUNTANT WITH YOU a beer could cost 100 times more than you pay back home in the US 30 time s more than in the UK at a pavement bar. the PRICES AT A BAR IN PARIS ARE ASTRONOMICAL BEWARE PAY FOR THE DRINK FIRST BEFORE YOU TASTE IT , THEN IF YOU GET A MASSIVE BILL JUST WALK AWAY. I HAVE FOUND OUT FROM EXPERIENCE THAT THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO BUY A DRINK IN PARIS THEY WILL ALWAYS TRY TO RIP YOU OFF WHEN YOU WALK AWAY TO AVOID BEING RIPPED THEIR JAW WILL DROP AS YOU WILL HAVE OUTWITTED THEM !

Response:

Its the overcharging by cafes and bars that pisses me off YOU MUST check the prices before you sit down at a cafe especially outside on the pavement. in the better parts of  town you could die of shock when you get the bill for drinks and snacks.

Some people know the cost of everything, and the value of nothing. Paul

Response:

Basically, this is just wrong.  Yes, tourist traps on the Champs Elysees or Saint Germaine are expensive, but they’re OPENLY expensive.  The prices are clear, everybody knows (or should by now) that service charges (tips) are included and that’s it.  There are ways and places where you can pay less, but it’s up to YOU to know about them.  You can’t blame the caf