Question:

I did hear of a very nasty (pre-9/11) prank where a thin piece of metal was slipped into someone’s bag. It had a "gun" shaped outline so it showed up on airport x-ray machines but was very hard to find. This apparently goes on regularly – airline security staff test the system every now and then by sticking fake guns in people’s luggage and waiting to see if anybody notices.  A couple months ago there was a news story about it when they missed taking one out again on the other end and the passenger was shocked to find this gun in his bags.

Wonder how they open people’s bags without them noticing? If this is true it sounds very risky – what if a passenger sees this happen and attacks and hurts/kills the security personnel? Some more advanced scanners have an in-built system (called TIP, Threat Image Projection on a machine I know of) which occasionally show the image of a gun, bomb, etc – if the operator does not respond they are not paying attention and alarms go off.

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Did it occur to you that this could be a troll ? —

I hope so. Or it is a very sad traveller who worries about this. In my backpacking days many travellers would have been delighted to get free drug donations

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [..] And always avoid crowds or close contact with any person. Yeah! The best way of travelling! Avois contact to others, especially locals! Treat anybody as suspicious … if you cannot avoid communicating with others any longer, look out for the next internet cafe and post stupid questions into any forum! What precautions have you guys taken and have you had any trouble? [..] The security camera or a security guard might notice you though if you dump something at the trash can, but… if you do it unsuspiciously and carefully, they might not bother to inspect the trash can, and even if they did (assuming the trash can blew up), you will already be long gone anyway. How do you know when the bomb explodes? I mean you can never be sure that it blows up exactly 10 seconds after you dumped it! I suggest – in case that you find any suspicious item in you bag, you move out of the immigration, take a taxi to the next uninhabitated area and dump the thing there. you should then – off course put signs there. it is best to have this signs everytime with you (BEWARE, suspicious item out of my bag! Might explode!) – makes travelling a bit uncomfprtable, but brings you a real benefit in case that you need it … It should be noted that in addition of guarding so that people won’t put things inside your backpack without you noticing it, you also need to guard so that people won’t take things out of your backpack without you noticing it. really?? So why do people this? I think it is better to stay at home and watch more stupid movies! Manfred

There is a device called PACSAFE,you can buy it online at good stores and www.pac-safe.com ,it comes in different sizes and is a high tensile steel mesh that goes over your backpack and comes with a lock to lock it to a post to stop it being nicked and to stop people getting in it to take or plant things. They retail at about

Question:

It bothers me whenever one of them posts that unless you live on $5 a day you can’t experience the local culture. That, of course, implies that everyone is poor and that any local who has any level of financial success automatically loses his culture. I think the point is more about the Hiltons, Marriotts, … are more or less similar all over the world.

That may be true in the US, but, at least with respect to Marriotts, is not true internationally.  Many international Marriotts were formally individually-owned grand hotels.  In Rome, the Marriott is the Grand Flora, which is quite unique (and quite nice).  In London, it’s now called Grosvernor Square — I don’t know the original name — but it has a completely unique character.  Same for the Champs Elysees Marriott in Paris. Not only is it the only hotel on the Champs Elysee, but it has a unique Parisian character not at all like any of the other international Marriotts. The same is true in Milan.  The JW was, to my knowledge, built specifically as a Marriott, but it is quite spectacular and has nothing in common with the American implementations except the name. It’s a bit like going to a McDonald’s in Nova Scotia, ordering a McLobster, then saying you’ve ‘experienced local food delicacies’.

I’m sorry, but I completely disagree.  I’ve stayed in 5-star "local hotels" as well as the international chains, and there is nothing to distinguish the two except that one will give me frequent stay points.

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It’s kind of like saying that unless you sleep in the doorway of a department store and urinate all over the BART entrances and eat in a soup kitchen you can’t experience the true culture of San Francisco. Wait – what’s wrong with that?

Michael Moore will put you in one of his films and say it’s Bush’s fault.

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It bothers me whenever one of them posts that unless you live on $5 a day you can’t experience the local culture. That, of course, implies that everyone is poor and that any local who has any level of financial success automatically loses his culture. I think the point is more about the Hiltons, Marriotts, … are more or less similar all over the world.  It’s a bit like going to a McDonald’s in Nova Scotia, ordering a McLobster, then saying you’ve ‘experienced local food delicacies’.

But… most locals wouldn’t stay in some of the places I’ve stayed, so I’m not sure if a shabby, run-down hostel in the backstreets of Seoul, for example, count as experiencing local culture. I’d say if a person’s going to ‘experience’ a culture they’ll do it regardless of where they’re staying. Besides, you can’t really do that without spending a good bit of time in a place; I know lots of people that consider themselves ‘learned’ about a culture after only a week in country. John W.

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It bothers me whenever one of them posts that unless you live on $5 a day you can’t experience the local culture. That, of course, implies that everyone is poor and that any local who has any level of financial success automatically loses his culture.

I think the point is more about the Hiltons, Marriotts, … are more or less similar all over the world.  It’s a bit like going to a McDonald’s in Nova Scotia, ordering a McLobster, then saying you’ve ‘experienced local food delicacies’.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is that the same Shangri-La that’s right next door?  I haven’t stayed there, but I’ve eaten in its restaurant a couple of times.  It’s nice atmosphere, which of their restaurants? comparable to the JW, as pricey but, IMHO, not quite as good.  I know a lot of people who swear by the Shangri-La, though. There’s a third hotel in the same vicinity — the Intercontinental, perhaps? The Conrad? My understanding is that they’re all generally comparable.  I stay at the JW because I a Marriott frequent stay point whore.  In fact, most of my stays at that hotel, including one coming up at the end of this year, are free thanks to Marriott’s Reward Point program. oh, I thought this thread was about money being no object where would you stay… or is the question which portion of your budget would you allocate to lodging?

The question was, "is it worth staying in a classy hotel?", which I don’t translate as, "money is no object." Does everyone in this thread who is pro-5-star have someone else footing the bill?

I foot my own bill when I stay in 5-stars for leisure travel.

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It’s kind of like saying that unless you sleep in the doorway of a department store and urinate all over the BART entrances and eat in a soup kitchen you can’t experience the true culture of San Francisco.

Wait – what’s wrong with that? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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Couldn’t agree more. My favorite is JWM in Bangkok. I’ve stayed at the Marriott which is down the river a bit, but never at the JW.  The river resort was pretty nice, with spacious, beautifully furnished rooms.  The JW in Bangkok must be spectacular.

To steal a line from a movie "it doesn’t suck".  :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I travel a lot on business, so my boss gets to foot the bill. That keeps me Platinum for Marriott. I get upgraded to an Executive Suite whenever I’m in Bangkok and it makes all the difference in the world (as compared to a cheaper place). Nice!  I once had to spend a month in Hong Kong for business — my hotel bill was over $10K but, of course, paid by the client.  That year I made platinum — usually I’m gold, though last year my travel dropped dramatically and I’m only silver for this year. But, as you pointed out (and I have pointed out before), it’s a matter of taste. Some people don’t care. I have a hard time understanding that, but to each his own. What I always find interesting is that people like us, who prefer nicer hotels, have no problem respecting the choices of the super-budget travelers.  However, it’s usually the super-budget travelers, like the OP, who insist on criticizing those of use who don’t enjoy shared baths and dormitory-style rooms when we travel.

As I’ve said before, most people of all stripes and backgrounds are nice. But you are right that among some backpackers there is an attitude that being poor somehow makes you superior(????). It bothers me whenever one of them posts that unless you live on $5 a day you can’t experience the local culture. That, of course, implies that everyone is poor and that any local who has any level of financial success automatically loses his culture. All of that is, for the most part, rationalization. What people experience living like that is not the culture of the country, but rather the culture of the poorest of the poor of that country. It’s kind of like saying that unless you sleep in the doorway of a department store and urinate all over the BART entrances and eat in a soup kitchen you can’t experience the true culture of San Francisco.

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What I always find interesting is that people like us, who prefer nicer hotels, have no problem respecting the choices of the super-budget travelers.  However, it’s usually the super-budget travelers, like the OP, who insist on criticizing those of use who don’t enjoy shared baths and dormitory-style rooms when we travel.

I gotta say, from where I’m sitting it’s been mostly the other way in this newsgroup lately (cited antecedent post excepted). miguel

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What I always find interesting is that people like us, who prefer nicer hotels, have no problem respecting the choices of the super-budget travelers.  However, it’s usually the super-budget travelers, like the OP, who insist on criticizing those of use who don’t enjoy shared baths and dormitory-style rooms when we travel. I gotta say, from where I’m sitting it’s been mostly the other way in this newsgroup lately (cited antecedent post excepted). miguel

I’ve only recently started revisiting rec.travel.asia, as I’m in the midst of planning a trip to Japan, China and Cambodia.  At least on the other travel groups, there seems to be a certain cache to roughing it, i.e. it’s not really travel if you stay in anything above a 3-star.  I can’t say what it’s been here, but the language of the original post in this thread certainly suggests a prejudice against those for whom hosteling is anathema.

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Is that the same Shangri-La that’s right next door?  I haven’t stayed there, but I’ve eaten in its restaurant a couple of times.  It’s nice atmosphere,

which of their restaurants? comparable to the JW, as pricey but, IMHO, not quite as good.  I know a lot of people who swear by the Shangri-La, though. There’s a third hotel in the same vicinity — the Intercontinental, perhaps?

The Conrad? My understanding is that they’re all generally comparable.  I stay at the JW because I a Marriott frequent stay point whore.  In fact, most of my stays at that hotel, including one coming up at the end of this year, are free thanks to Marriott’s Reward Point program.

oh, I thought this thread was about money being no object where would you stay… or is the question which portion of your budget would you allocate to lodging? Does everyone in this thread who is pro-5-star have someone else footing the bill?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in? Rather judgmental of you, don’t you think? When we travel, anywhere, we prefer to stay in nice hotels.  We like a quiet room, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a generous tub, hot shower, etc.  We like our privacy.  We like having a base of operations which, among other things, has the support of a competent concierge, a business center, reliable phone service, etc. What may seem like big $$$ to you, isn’t big $$$ to everyone. One of our favorite hotels in the world is the J.W. Marriott in Hong Kong. First class service, beautiful (though small) rooms, and one of the most highly-regarded restaurants in Hong Kong.  Yes, I prefer to stay there. No, I wouldn’t prefer to stay in a hostel in Hong Kong (or, for that matter, anywhere else). Couldn’t agree more. My favorite is JWM in Bangkok.

I’ve stayed at the Marriott which is down the river a bit, but never at the JW.  The river resort was pretty nice, with spacious, beautifully furnished rooms.  The JW in Bangkok must be spectacular. I travel a lot on business, so my boss gets to foot the bill. That keeps me Platinum for Marriott. I get upgraded to an Executive Suite whenever I’m in Bangkok and it makes all the difference in the world (as compared to a cheaper place).

Nice!  I once had to spend a month in Hong Kong for business — my hotel bill was over $10K but, of course, paid by the client.  That year I made platinum — usually I’m gold, though last year my travel dropped dramatically and I’m only silver for this year. But, as you pointed out (and I have pointed out before), it’s a matter of taste. Some people don’t care. I have a hard time understanding that, but to each his own.

What I always find interesting is that people like us, who prefer nicer hotels, have no problem respecting the choices of the super-budget travelers.  However, it’s usually the super-budget travelers, like the OP, who insist on criticizing those of use who don’t enjoy shared baths and dormitory-style rooms when we travel.

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Tchiowa kirjoitti: Couldn’t agree more. My favorite is JWM in Bangkok. I travel a lot on business, so my boss gets to foot the bill. That keeps me Platinum for Marriott. I get upgraded to an Executive Suite whenever I’m in Bangkok and it makes all the difference in the world (as compared to a cheaper place). But, as you pointed out (and I have pointed out before), it’s a matter of taste. Some people don’t care. I have a hard time understanding that, but to each his own.

Me too. I don’t visit Bangkok because there is not decent accommodation available.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in? Rather judgmental of you, don’t you think? When we travel, anywhere, we prefer to stay in nice hotels.  We like a quiet room, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a generous tub, hot shower, etc.  We like our privacy.  We like having a base of operations which, among other things, has the support of a competent concierge, a business center, reliable phone service, etc. What may seem like big $$$ to you, isn’t big $$$ to everyone. One of our favorite hotels in the world is the J.W. Marriott in Hong Kong. First class service, beautiful (though small) rooms, and one of the most highly-regarded restaurants in Hong Kong.  Yes, I prefer to stay there. No, I wouldn’t prefer to stay in a hostel in Hong Kong (or, for that matter, anywhere else). How does it compare to the Island Shangri-La?

Is that the same Shangri-La that’s right next door?  I haven’t stayed there, but I’ve eaten in its restaurant a couple of times.  It’s nice atmosphere, comparable to the JW, as pricey but, IMHO, not quite as good.  I know a lot of people who swear by the Shangri-La, though. There’s a third hotel in the same vicinity — the Intercontinental, perhaps? My understanding is that they’re all generally comparable.  I stay at the JW because I a Marriott frequent stay point whore.  In fact, most of my stays at that hotel, including one coming up at the end of this year, are free thanks to Marriott’s Reward Point program.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in? Rather judgmental of you, don’t you think? When we travel, anywhere, we prefer to stay in nice hotels.  We like a quiet room, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a generous tub, hot shower, etc.  We like our privacy.  We like having a base of operations which, among other things, has the support of a competent concierge, a business center, reliable phone service, etc. What may seem like big $$$ to you, isn’t big $$$ to everyone. One of our favorite hotels in the world is the J.W. Marriott in Hong Kong. First class service, beautiful (though small) rooms, and one of the most highly-regarded restaurants in Hong Kong.  Yes, I prefer to stay there.  No, I wouldn’t prefer to stay in a hostel in Hong Kong (or, for that matter, anywhere else).

Couldn’t agree more. My favorite is JWM in Bangkok. I travel a lot on business, so my boss gets to foot the bill. That keeps me Platinum for Marriott. I get upgraded to an Executive Suite whenever I’m in Bangkok and it makes all the difference in the world (as compared to a cheaper place). But, as you pointed out (and I have pointed out before), it’s a matter of taste. Some people don’t care. I have a hard time understanding that, but to each his own.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in? Rather judgmental of you, don’t you think? When we travel, anywhere, we prefer to stay in nice hotels.  We like a quiet room, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a generous tub, hot shower, etc.  We like our privacy.  We like having a base of operations which, among other things, has the support of a competent concierge, a business center, reliable phone service, etc. What may seem like big $$$ to you, isn’t big $$$ to everyone. One of our favorite hotels in the world is the J.W. Marriott in Hong Kong. First class service, beautiful (though small) rooms, and one of the most highly-regarded restaurants in Hong Kong.  Yes, I prefer to stay there.  No, I wouldn’t prefer to stay in a hostel in Hong Kong (or, for that matter, anywhere else).

How does it compare to the Island Shangri-La?

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

Rather judgmental of you, don’t you think? When we travel, anywhere, we prefer to stay in nice hotels.  We like a quiet room, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a generous tub, hot shower, etc.  We like our privacy.  We like having a base of operations which, among other things, has the support of a competent concierge, a business center, reliable phone service, etc. What may seem like big $$$ to you, isn’t big $$$ to everyone. One of our favorite hotels in the world is the J.W. Marriott in Hong Kong. First class service, beautiful (though small) rooms, and one of the most highly-regarded restaurants in Hong Kong.  Yes, I prefer to stay there.  No, I wouldn’t prefer to stay in a hostel in Hong Kong (or, for that matter, anywhere else).

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

This is entirely a personal choice. If you’re going to be transient, meaning only in one place for a day or so at a time, and if you have no need for privacy then hostels may be your choice. If you’re going to be staying somewhere for a long time and you want a decent place to live then a hostel probably wouldn’t work. What you should look for is a hotel that is similar in living standards (amenities, quality, etc.) to the way you live at home. If you stay someplace for weeks at a time the "little things" will begin to grate on you after awhile. There are a lot of good, medium priced hotels. "Expensive" isn’t necessary. However, if you can afford it and you are staying in one place for a long time, then the added luxury of a good quality hotel can enhance your experience. Do you have an apartment or a house where you live? Throw a mattress on the floor and sleep on it (instead of sleeping in your nice, comfortable bed). Find a cheap part of your town and eat at "questionable" diners. Never cook at home and never eat at a good restaurant. Go down to the local homeless shelter to take a shower rather than using the privacy of your own house. Make sure that there is at least one drunk and 2 addicts sharing the shower with you. Wear the same clothes for several days without doing laundry. Walk to work in the morning instead of driving your car. Never turn on your A/C at home. Leave the windows open so the critters can share your experience. Do that for a month or two and see how much you are enjoying life. That will tell you how much "quality" is worth.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in? This is entirely a personal choice. If you’re going to be transient, meaning only in one place for a day or so at a time, and if you have no need for privacy then hostels may be your choice. If you’re going to be staying somewhere for a long time and you want a decent place to live then a hostel probably wouldn’t work. What you should look for is a hotel that is similar in living standards (amenities, quality, etc.) to the way you live at home. If you stay someplace for weeks at a time the "little things" will begin to grate on you after awhile. There are a lot of good, medium priced hotels. "Expensive" isn’t necessary. However, if you can afford it and you are staying in one place for a long time, then the added luxury of a good quality hotel can enhance your experience.

If you have the money to afford a swanky hotel it is also easier sometimes, particularly if you’ve done a full day of traveling, you’re exhausted, and you just can’t be bothere finding a room in a hostel. This happened to my wife and me in Europe; arrived in Amsterdam at night on a holiday and there were literally no rooms at the inns, and we absolutely had no money for the more expensive places; wound up shacking in some guy’s apartment (and he was kind enough to charge us a pittance…). But I’ve found hostels and inns are often as comfortable as the better hotels. A lot of times the things you pay for in a Hilton or Sheraton are things the average backpack traveler doesn’t always need, like high speed Internet connectivity in the rooms, room service, concierge service, etc. Pretty much all I’m looking for is a place to lay my head and not worry about mice crawling across me (which I’ve experienced, and don’t like). John W.

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

Do keep in mind that hotels in most of Asia are much cheaper than hotels of similar quality elsewhere in the world. You can find a decent room with a private bathroom and air conditioning for USD 20-30 in most Asian cities. Asian luxury hotels are mostly much cheaper than their counterparts in the US or Europe.  USD 100-150 is standard, unlike the top-line hotels in major European and American cities. And the bottom of the line ‘guesthouses’ come as cheap as USD 3-5 in many cities.

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Personally I think hostels are a bit scary as most often you have to share the room aswell as the bathroom but is is a great experience if you like that kind of thing & you can meet lots of people(watch your belongings!) I agree with the other guys tho, air-con is pretty much a must over there and private bathroom is always nice. I do always have a week of luxury if I can afford it tho. A 5* hotel can be the same price as a crappy english b&b so why not for a while! What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

Absolutely agree. It is well worth some extra $$’s to be able to get at good shower, clean bed, good space to unwind after a long day out in the hot humid city (or whatever). I have had my share of lousy lodging while travelling round europe by train in the late 70’s early 80’s. If you can afford it the extra $$’s spent is forgotten the day after coming home anyway. knut

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Personally I think hostels are a bit scary as most often you have to share the room aswell as the bathroom but is is a great experience if you like that kind of thing & you can meet lots of people(watch your belongings!) I agree with the other guys tho, air-con is pretty much a must over there and private bathroom is always nice. I do always have a week of luxury if I can afford it tho. A 5* hotel can be the same price as a crappy english b&b so why not for a while!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

Everyone’s circumstances and preferences are different.  I know one person who would book a 5* hotel at the end of trips, just so she enjoys some luxury before heading home.

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Normally I choose 3 star!! Except in Bangkok, where I keep going back to the Phatumwan Princess – 4 star – at a 3 star price; and so well positioned!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

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What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

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Usually when I travel, I would stay in a 2 to 3 star hotel depending on the location. I guess for me what is important is really accessibility to where I need to go (near public transport zone), a safe environment and a no-nonsense place. Basic comfort is important which includes clean sheets, air-conditioning and a personal shower. I guess it depends on the situation. If you are travelling to meet a business client then a business class hotel might be a good place to be in or if it is your honeymoon and you want it to be a time to remember. Some travel via tour packages and they do not really have much choice of where to stay. Edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are readers thoughts on travelling to Asia and spending big $$$ to stay in an expensive hotel?  Would people prefer to stay in a hostel given that hotels should only b eused to sleep in?

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Question:

Hi, my name is Windham and I am a horny South African male. I live in North London and can accommodate in my hostel young gay boys, who are willing to abuse and humiliate me. Please call 020-82031319, preferably by day. Bye Windham — questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito

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Hi, my name is Windham and I am a horny South African male. I live in North London and can accommodate in my hostel young gay boys, who are willing to abuse and humiliate me. Please call 020-82031319, preferably by day. Bye Windham

I’m confused….. If you are from South africa why is your posting host out of amsterdam???? rgName:    RIPE Network Coordination Centre OrgID:      RIPE Address:    Singel 258 Address:    1016 AB City:       Amsterdam StateProv: PostalCode: Country:    NL Maybe I am confused and you are posting to the wrong group…. BTW I contacted your ISP and told them you have been a bad gay boi…. Does your wife know??? Seriously I think this is a fuck with someone I don’t like post his provider has been alerted regardless — JSin Lost Generation Custom Tattoo To reply Kill the .idiot "Swing a little more on the Devil’s dance floor" -Flogging Molly

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Question:

I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

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I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

Nowhere in northern Europe will be particularly warm in November. Some areas will have snow, some won’t. If you only have a week and are travelling by bus/train/hitching it would make sense to stay fairly close to the Netherlands, so consider France or Germany. (Scandinavia will be getting pretty cold, Britain is expensive.) If you want somewhere a bit warmer, you might see if you could get a budget airfare from Amsterdam to, say, Rome or Barcelona or Athens.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November? Nowhere in northern Europe will be particularly warm in November. Some areas will have snow, some won’t. If you only have a week and are travelling by bus/train/hitching it would make sense to stay fairly close to the Netherlands, so consider France or Germany. (Scandinavia will be getting pretty cold, Britain is expensive.) If you want somewhere a bit warmer, you might see if you could get a budget airfare from Amsterdam to, say, Rome or Barcelona or Athens.

Tend to agree. November can be damned wet and miserable in Europe, particularly in the "middle" latitudes. Far north will probably have snow, but it’s a fairly long way for just a week. You could always try south of France – probably still be fairly warm (in comparison) and not too far to go. H — 24 hours in a day … 24 beers in a case … coincidence? The views and expressions contained in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of my employer.

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I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

In most parts of western Europe, snow would be unusual in November, unless you’re at high altitudes. Rain and fog are much more common. Because the weather may not be ideal for rural holidays, I would suggest a city holiday. Either London or Paris would be convenient to Amsterdam and either could easily occupy a week, with a possible day trip or two. There are many nice smaller cities in the Netherlands, if you want to stay there for all or part of your extra week. Some of my favorites are Leiden, Gouda and Haarlem.

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warmest place is Lisbon, Portugal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

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Hi I noticed you mentioned recent trips to Italy in Nov and Dec.  We would like to take my mother to Italy at the end of November, and we are looking for small cities.  Do you have any special recommendations for that time of year? Also, what was the weather like? Thank you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes If it is the very end of November, you might like Strasbourg for its Christmas Market. Magically medieval at dusk! Also, we have found that anyplace is a good place to be, esp. when you are not waiting in crowded museum lines, etc., in November/ December.   We have enjoyed Nov./Dec. trips to France and to Italy in recent years.  As noted by others, it can be raw at this time of year in Amsterdam, Paris,etc.  So you wear wool under your GoreTex! Have fun! I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hate to say it but November is a pretty crappy month for travel in much of Europe. Around the eastern Mediterranean you’re catching the tail end of the October rainy season, most of Central and Eastern Europe is grey and wintry, and elsewhere it’s cold. I think the European winter begins and ends about a month before the North American one. That said, I echo Fred’s sentiments — Barcelona was quite pleasant around then for me. I was there two Novembers ago and it was warm enough to sit outside during the day, and you just needed a light jacket at night. SJ A few years ago I went to Turkey in the beginning of November. It was a bit chilly in central Anatolia but the Mediteranean and Agean areas were hot (22-28C), when I was in Kusadasi the sea was warm enough to swim in. It’s certainly cheap and great place to backpack. Marty I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November? Last November, I went to Barcelona and the weather was perfect.  (70 to 75 F)

You can drop lucky (or unlucky) wherever you are. I’ve been chilly in both northern Tunisia and Kusadasi in October (and boiling in Rhodes). The best overall non-African chance for good weather in these months is southern Cyprus. Preferably (little difference in travel) we aim south of the Moroccan High Atlas or Luxor/Aswan to know we’ll get real heat. Surreyman

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I hate to say it but November is a pretty crappy month for travel in much of Europe. Around the eastern Mediterranean you’re catching the tail end of the October rainy season, most of Central and Eastern Europe is grey and wintry, and elsewhere it’s cold. I think the European winter begins and ends about a month before the North American one. That said, I echo Fred’s sentiments — Barcelona was quite pleasant around then for me. I was there two Novembers ago and it was warm enough to sit outside during the day, and you just needed a light jacket at night. SJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few years ago I went to Turkey in the beginning of November. It was a bit chilly in central Anatolia but the Mediteranean and Agean areas were hot (22-28C), when I was in Kusadasi the sea was warm enough to swim in. It’s certainly cheap and great place to backpack. Marty I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November? Last November, I went to Barcelona and the weather was perfect.  (70 to 75 F) Fred — Using M2, Opera’s revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

Last November, I went to Barcelona and the weather was perfect.  (70 to 75 F) Fred

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A few years ago I went to Turkey in the beginning of November. It was a bit chilly in central Anatolia but the Mediteranean and Agean areas were hot (22-28C), when I was in Kusadasi the sea was warm enough to swim in. It’s certainly cheap and great place to backpack. Marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November? Last November, I went to Barcelona and the weather was perfect.  (70 to 75 F) Fred

– Using M2, Opera’s revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments? Thanks!

I prefer Parma as the city is nicer, more compact, and the food even better (my favourite place: I had a phantastic lunch two years ago at Corale Verdi, in the outskirt, behind-the-river zone, near the Toscanini museum). But be warned that in November Parma (and Bologna also) may be cold and damp. In Parma the fog may be as dense as butter (the first time you could actually find it fascinating). For a November visit, probably Rome is better. —

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A Parma story . . . We found ourselves walking the streets of Parma center on a raw rainy evening last December.  We’d dropped our daughter off in the outskirts for a business meeting, and thought we would go into town for dinner.  Like so (Actually, the police officer who stopped me in an apparently restricted area was super nice, and even gave directions to the nearest public garage, all while getting soaked in the deluge.)  After visiting the museum, we picked up information and a map at the tourist bureau from a most UNhelpful agent. Engrossed in a "private" phone conversation, he was none too happy we’d appeared.  We asked him for some restaurant recommendation in centro, and he haphazardly circled five different blocks.  Oh, well–we’ll manage, I thought.  Trudging around lazily, we soon discovered that EVERY restaurant he gave us was closed–it was Monday! Now, this was our first encounter with the Monday closings, but, fellow travelers, is it unreasonable to think that the tourist bureau guy would have known this?  Just wondering . . . We crossed the main plaza to the southern side and started to look around there, as all the shops closed up.  Feeling cranky, we decided to stop in a pastry shop for hot chocolate. Italian hot chocolate = wow!  This was a cup of hot fudge sauce!!! (Mind, this is not a complaint, only an admiring observation!)  It did *me* a world of good!  The young clerk was very friendly, and patient with my halting Italian.  So I asked her if there were any restaurants open tonight in the neighborhood.  She and the pastry chef consulted, made a phone call, and then triumphantly told me that their friend around the corner would hold a table for us!  Indeed, around the corner and down an unlit alley, we found the tiny restaurant and had a WONDERFUL dinner.  It was located near the law school and courts, and was more than perfect.  On our way back to the car, we noticed the pastry shop was closed but the chef & clerk were still inside doing paperwork.  Rapping on the window, I gave them a big "grazie!" and made the finger-in-the cheek sign.  They opened the door and were very happy we were so pleased with their recommendation. All in all, one of those totally unplanned evenings that turns out to be quite memorable.   To me, that is what makes travel so much fun!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments? Thanks! Bologna is certainly worth a visit — a fair-sized city by Italian standards, though, not a small one. One of the best destinations in Italy if you are at all interested in food (consumption, preparation or both), a compact city centre with a great square and some interesting buildings, all very walkable. I haven’t been to Parma that I can recall, but no doubt someone who has will be along in a minute…

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Hi I noticed you mentioned recent trips to Italy in Nov and Dec.  We would like to take my mother to Italy at the end of November, and we are looking for small cities.  Do you have any special recommendations for that time of year?

The weather in November is unpredictable in Italy. Sometimes it is very nice and mild. However, chilly, drizzly and foggy are more typical. The further south you go, the more likely you are to find warm weather. However, much of what tourists want to see in the south is along the spectacular coast and it really isn’t guaranteed that you would find the weather suitable. I would suggest instead, as you say, visiting some of Italy’s smaller cities. Even if the weather is dreary, these always offer something for the tourist. Medieval streets are very romantic in the fog! Some of my favorite small cities in Italy are (in no particular order): Assisi (and nearby Spello) Urbino Gubbio Orvieto Arezzo Lucca Todi These are all in central Italy, in Tuscany, Umbria and Le Marche. Barbara

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Assisi (and nearby Spello) Urbino Gubbio Orvieto Arezzo Lucca Todi

I might add the (slightly larger, I think) Ravenna and Ferrara to that list.

Response:

These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments? Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Assisi (and nearby Spello) Urbino Gubbio Orvieto Arezzo Lucca Todi I might add the (slightly larger, I think) Ravenna and Ferrara to that list.

Response:

These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments? Thanks!

Bologna is certainly worth a visit — a fair-sized city by Italian standards, though, not a small one. One of the best destinations in Italy if you are at all interested in food (consumption, preparation or both), a compact city centre with a great square and some interesting buildings, all very walkable. I haven’t been to Parma that I can recall, but no doubt someone who has will be along in a minute…

Response:

These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments?

Both are very nice; however, they’re not really small cities. We go to Bologna often, as it’s the closest "big" city to where we live. I’ve only been to Parma once and haven’t really seen much except the museums we went to see. However, it seemed a very attractive city. Bologna is not much visited by tourists. It’s a pleasant city with an ancient university. It has some excellent restaurants and good shopping. I’ve heard some people say they didn’t think it was anything special. Maybe they were looking for something more quaint. It’s one of my favorite cities in Italy. Barbara

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I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

Response:

I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

Nowhere in northern Europe will be particularly warm in November. Some areas will have snow, some won’t. If you only have a week and are travelling by bus/train/hitching it would make sense to stay fairly close to the Netherlands, so consider France or Germany. (Scandinavia will be getting pretty cold, Britain is expensive.) If you want somewhere a bit warmer, you might see if you could get a budget airfare from Amsterdam to, say, Rome or Barcelona or Athens.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November? Nowhere in northern Europe will be particularly warm in November. Some areas will have snow, some won’t. If you only have a week and are travelling by bus/train/hitching it would make sense to stay fairly close to the Netherlands, so consider France or Germany. (Scandinavia will be getting pretty cold, Britain is expensive.) If you want somewhere a bit warmer, you might see if you could get a budget airfare from Amsterdam to, say, Rome or Barcelona or Athens.

Tend to agree. November can be damned wet and miserable in Europe, particularly in the "middle" latitudes. Far north will probably have snow, but it’s a fairly long way for just a week. You could always try south of France – probably still be fairly warm (in comparison) and not too far to go. H — 24 hours in a day … 24 beers in a case … coincidence? The views and expressions contained in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of my employer.

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I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

In most parts of western Europe, snow would be unusual in November, unless you’re at high altitudes. Rain and fog are much more common. Because the weather may not be ideal for rural holidays, I would suggest a city holiday. Either London or Paris would be convenient to Amsterdam and either could easily occupy a week, with a possible day trip or two. There are many nice smaller cities in the Netherlands, if you want to stay there for all or part of your extra week. Some of my favorites are Leiden, Gouda and Haarlem.

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warmest place is Lisbon, Portugal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

Response:

Hi I noticed you mentioned recent trips to Italy in Nov and Dec.  We would like to take my mother to Italy at the end of November, and we are looking for small cities.  Do you have any special recommendations for that time of year? Also, what was the weather like? Thank you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes If it is the very end of November, you might like Strasbourg for its Christmas Market. Magically medieval at dusk! Also, we have found that anyplace is a good place to be, esp. when you are not waiting in crowded museum lines, etc., in November/ December.   We have enjoyed Nov./Dec. trips to France and to Italy in recent years.  As noted by others, it can be raw at this time of year in Amsterdam, Paris,etc.  So you wear wool under your GoreTex! Have fun! I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

Response:

Hi I noticed you mentioned recent trips to Italy in Nov and Dec.  We would like to take my mother to Italy at the end of November, and we are looking for small cities.  Do you have any special recommendations for that time of year?

The weather in November is unpredictable in Italy. Sometimes it is very nice and mild. However, chilly, drizzly and foggy are more typical. The further south you go, the more likely you are to find warm weather. However, much of what tourists want to see in the south is along the spectacular coast and it really isn’t guaranteed that you would find the weather suitable. I would suggest instead, as you say, visiting some of Italy’s smaller cities. Even if the weather is dreary, these always offer something for the tourist. Medieval streets are very romantic in the fog! Some of my favorite small cities in Italy are (in no particular order): Assisi (and nearby Spello) Urbino Gubbio Orvieto Arezzo Lucca Todi These are all in central Italy, in Tuscany, Umbria and Le Marche. Barbara

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Assisi (and nearby Spello) Urbino Gubbio Orvieto Arezzo Lucca Todi

I might add the (slightly larger, I think) Ravenna and Ferrara to that list.

Response:

These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments? Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Assisi (and nearby Spello) Urbino Gubbio Orvieto Arezzo Lucca Todi I might add the (slightly larger, I think) Ravenna and Ferrara to that list.

Response:

These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments? Thanks!

Bologna is certainly worth a visit — a fair-sized city by Italian standards, though, not a small one. One of the best destinations in Italy if you are at all interested in food (consumption, preparation or both), a compact city centre with a great square and some interesting buildings, all very walkable. I haven’t been to Parma that I can recall, but no doubt someone who has will be along in a minute…

Response:

These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments?

Both are very nice; however, they’re not really small cities. We go to Bologna often, as it’s the closest "big" city to where we live. I’ve only been to Parma once and haven’t really seen much except the museums we went to see. However, it seemed a very attractive city. Bologna is not much visited by tourists. It’s a pleasant city with an ancient university. It has some excellent restaurants and good shopping. I’ve heard some people say they didn’t think it was anything special. Maybe they were looking for something more quaint. It’s one of my favorite cities in Italy. Barbara

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A Parma story . . . We found ourselves walking the streets of Parma center on a raw rainy evening last December.  We’d dropped our daughter off in the outskirts for a business meeting, and thought we would go into town for dinner.  Like so (Actually, the police officer who stopped me in an apparently restricted area was super nice, and even gave directions to the nearest public garage, all while getting soaked in the deluge.)  After visiting the museum, we picked up information and a map at the tourist bureau from a most UNhelpful agent. Engrossed in a "private" phone conversation, he was none too happy we’d appeared.  We asked him for some restaurant recommendation in centro, and he haphazardly circled five different blocks.  Oh, well–we’ll manage, I thought.  Trudging around lazily, we soon discovered that EVERY restaurant he gave us was closed–it was Monday! Now, this was our first encounter with the Monday closings, but, fellow travelers, is it unreasonable to think that the tourist bureau guy would have known this?  Just wondering . . . We crossed the main plaza to the southern side and started to look around there, as all the shops closed up.  Feeling cranky, we decided to stop in a pastry shop for hot chocolate. Italian hot chocolate = wow!  This was a cup of hot fudge sauce!!! (Mind, this is not a complaint, only an admiring observation!)  It did *me* a world of good!  The young clerk was very friendly, and patient with my halting Italian.  So I asked her if there were any restaurants open tonight in the neighborhood.  She and the pastry chef consulted, made a phone call, and then triumphantly told me that their friend around the corner would hold a table for us!  Indeed, around the corner and down an unlit alley, we found the tiny restaurant and had a WONDERFUL dinner.  It was located near the law school and courts, and was more than perfect.  On our way back to the car, we noticed the pastry shop was closed but the chef & clerk were still inside doing paperwork.  Rapping on the window, I gave them a big "grazie!" and made the finger-in-the cheek sign.  They opened the door and were very happy we were so pleased with their recommendation. All in all, one of those totally unplanned evenings that turns out to be quite memorable.   To me, that is what makes travel so much fun!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments? Thanks! Bologna is certainly worth a visit — a fair-sized city by Italian standards, though, not a small one. One of the best destinations in Italy if you are at all interested in food (consumption, preparation or both), a compact city centre with a great square and some interesting buildings, all very walkable. I haven’t been to Parma that I can recall, but no doubt someone who has will be along in a minute…

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These are both good lists to work from, and I thank you.  We have visited multiple times, but there are places on your lists that we have not been to and I think it would be easy to put a nice trip together from these towns, even eliminating those my mother has already visited. I was thinking also of Bologna and/or Parma.  Any comments? Thanks!

I prefer Parma as the city is nicer, more compact, and the food even better (my favourite place: I had a phantastic lunch two years ago at Corale Verdi, in the outskirt, behind-the-river zone, near the Toscanini museum). But be warned that in November Parma (and Bologna also) may be cold and damp. In Parma the fog may be as dense as butter (the first time you could actually find it fascinating). For a November visit, probably Rome is better. —

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I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November?

Last November, I went to Barcelona and the weather was perfect.  (70 to 75 F) Fred

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A few years ago I went to Turkey in the beginning of November. It was a bit chilly in central Anatolia but the Mediteranean and Agean areas were hot (22-28C), when I was in Kusadasi the sea was warm enough to swim in. It’s certainly cheap and great place to backpack. Marty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November? Last November, I went to Barcelona and the weather was perfect.  (70 to 75 F) Fred

– Using M2, Opera’s revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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I hate to say it but November is a pretty crappy month for travel in much of Europe. Around the eastern Mediterranean you’re catching the tail end of the October rainy season, most of Central and Eastern Europe is grey and wintry, and elsewhere it’s cold. I think the European winter begins and ends about a month before the North American one. That said, I echo Fred’s sentiments — Barcelona was quite pleasant around then for me. I was there two Novembers ago and it was warm enough to sit outside during the day, and you just needed a light jacket at night. SJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few years ago I went to Turkey in the beginning of November. It was a bit chilly in central Anatolia but the Mediteranean and Agean areas were hot (22-28C), when I was in Kusadasi the sea was warm enough to swim in. It’s certainly cheap and great place to backpack. Marty I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November? Last November, I went to Barcelona and the weather was perfect.  (70 to 75 F) Fred — Using M2, Opera’s revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hate to say it but November is a pretty crappy month for travel in much of Europe. Around the eastern Mediterranean you’re catching the tail end of the October rainy season, most of Central and Eastern Europe is grey and wintry, and elsewhere it’s cold. I think the European winter begins and ends about a month before the North American one. That said, I echo Fred’s sentiments — Barcelona was quite pleasant around then for me. I was there two Novembers ago and it was warm enough to sit outside during the day, and you just needed a light jacket at night. SJ A few years ago I went to Turkey in the beginning of November. It was a bit chilly in central Anatolia but the Mediteranean and Agean areas were hot (22-28C), when I was in Kusadasi the sea was warm enough to swim in. It’s certainly cheap and great place to backpack. Marty I have a chance to go to Europe in November, mostly would be in Amsterdam and I might have only one week for me to go elsewhere in Europe. Where would you reccomend I go at that time? Plannign to stay hostel, cheap cheap travel…backpacking type. Is there snow already in November? Last November, I went to Barcelona and the weather was perfect.  (70 to 75 F)

You can drop lucky (or unlucky) wherever you are. I’ve been chilly in both northern Tunisia and Kusadasi in October (and boiling in Rhodes). The best overall non-African chance for good weather in these months is southern Cyprus. Preferably (little difference in travel) we aim south of the Moroccan High Atlas or Luxor/Aswan to know we’ll get real heat. Surreyman

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Question:

We (couple) are on the same budget as you for 3 months. Leaving Australia 29 May and returning 6 September 2003.  We are taking a tent so that we save on accomodation.  There are camp sites everywhere we look. The other great thing is www.globalfreeloaders.com where you stay with people for free!!!  Only condition is, you have to be prepared to accomodate people in your home for free.  Not a problem if you like free accomodation and meeting people.

SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass. Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…!

: S2108509 at student rmit edu au

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Forgot to say, thats $7000 Australian Dollars… Around $US4300. email: S2108509 at student rmit edu au

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Forgot to say, thats $7000 Australian Dollars… Around $US4300.

For 3 months? Hmmm… that might be tough, but not impossible. You could do what others do, and find a nice hostel somewhere, and work for them for free accomodation (I can recommend some if you like). Hitchhiking is not a bad way of getting around, if a slightly risky. Try not to spend too much time in the expensive parts like Paris, Amsterdam, Rome, and of course London. Eastern Europe is much cheaper, but you will need a visa for Czech, Poland, Hungary, Romania and Turkey (check these though, as they could change at any time), so you need to factor that in. They are about $80 Oz each, except for the Turkish one which is about $50. Western Europe’s prices jump up during summer, as do the crowds. Avoid Scandinavia, Switzerland and the UK if you really want to limit your spending, and speak to the people in hostels as to where to get cheap food deals. Spain and Portugal are probably the cheapest western countries. Have fun! — DFM

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SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass.

Is that Australian? Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…!

If you’re staying in youth hostels, you can count on about 40-50 euros a day to cover everything other than transportation. Scandinavia and London are most expensive, Spain and Greece are the cheapest. Barbara

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SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass. Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…!

50 euros per day is cutting it pretty close even by youth budget standards.  I’d stay away from London. You will learn costcutting measures as you go.  Sleeping on the train is one, if you get desperate.  Hostels with laundry facilites are a godsend, since European coin-operated laundromats are generally very expensive (at least by US standards).  Spain is not too bad on this count, though.  Buy soap at a supermarket.  Also remember to buy bottled water at supermarkets.  Hostels with kitchens are also a major money saver. Bring your own "sleeping sack", basically two sheets sewn together, and a pillow with pillowcase. — "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."          - Abraham Lincoln

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass. Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…! 50 euros per day is cutting it pretty close even by youth budget standards.  I’d stay away from London. You will learn costcutting measures as you go.  Sleeping on the train is one, if you get desperate.  Hostels with laundry facilites are a godsend, since European coin-operated laundromats are generally very expensive (at least by US standards).  Spain is not too bad on this count, though.  Buy soap at a supermarket.  Also remember to buy bottled water at supermarkets.  Hostels with kitchens are also a major money saver. Bring your own "sleeping sack", basically two sheets sewn together, and a pillow with pillowcase.

<snip You can do OK on that kind of money in France, if you don’t eat in restaurants. You can rent rooms in gites for about 30 euros in the country (if you can get there from the rail line). I think you can do better everywhere than hostels on that budget if you stay in zimmer, gites, camerae, etc., i.e. rooms in people’s houses. If you hitchhike through the countryside once you hop off the train, and look for lodging in smaller towns, buy bread, cheese, veggies and sausage at bakeries, delis and grocers, or roadside stands, you can live like a king, and meet lots of interesting people. That said, hostels are still the best bargains (usually), but watch out for thieves. — John Starrett "We have nothing to fear but the scary stuff"

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SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass. Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…! email: S2108509 at student rmit edu au

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Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…!

Just don’t do what my step-brother did.  He got off the plane in Brussels. Downtown, a guy on the street encouraged him to come into a nightclub.  It was great!  Girls sat on his lap, he bought them champagne–it was incredible!  Till he got the bill.  It wiped out his entire bankroll.  He spent the rest of the trip sleeping in the wild at truck stops. This will NOT happen to you, though, now that you read this post.  You’ve got 90 days, and 7K.  That’s about $78 a day, which means if you stay at 3 star hotels, which average $75 a night, you won’t have much for food, and you will be doing a lot of walking. So, think about going where things are cheap for half the trip.  Coastal Spain, Eastern Europe, and hostels (many central European cities have fun, upbeat hostels, where you meet lots of people).  Or meeting people and doubling up.  Accomodation is THE major expense, once you have that fab Eurail pass!   The rest is gravy.

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SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass. Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…! email: S2108509 at student rmit edu au

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Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…!

Just don’t do what my step-brother did.  He got off the plane in Brussels. Downtown, a guy on the street encouraged him to come into a nightclub.  It was great!  Girls sat on his lap, he bought them champagne–it was incredible!  Till he got the bill.  It wiped out his entire bankroll.  He spent the rest of the trip sleeping in the wild at truck stops. This will NOT happen to you, though, now that you read this post.  You’ve got 90 days, and 7K.  That’s about $78 a day, which means if you stay at 3 star hotels, which average $75 a night, you won’t have much for food, and you will be doing a lot of walking. So, think about going where things are cheap for half the trip.  Coastal Spain, Eastern Europe, and hostels (many central European cities have fun, upbeat hostels, where you meet lots of people).  Or meeting people and doubling up.  Accomodation is THE major expense, once you have that fab Eurail pass!   The rest is gravy.

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Forgot to say, thats $7000 Australian Dollars… Around $US4300. email: S2108509 at student rmit edu au

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Forgot to say, thats $7000 Australian Dollars… Around $US4300.

For 3 months? Hmmm… that might be tough, but not impossible. You could do what others do, and find a nice hostel somewhere, and work for them for free accomodation (I can recommend some if you like). Hitchhiking is not a bad way of getting around, if a slightly risky. Try not to spend too much time in the expensive parts like Paris, Amsterdam, Rome, and of course London. Eastern Europe is much cheaper, but you will need a visa for Czech, Poland, Hungary, Romania and Turkey (check these though, as they could change at any time), so you need to factor that in. They are about $80 Oz each, except for the Turkish one which is about $50. Western Europe’s prices jump up during summer, as do the crowds. Avoid Scandinavia, Switzerland and the UK if you really want to limit your spending, and speak to the people in hostels as to where to get cheap food deals. Spain and Portugal are probably the cheapest western countries. Have fun! — DFM

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SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass.

Is that Australian? Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…!

If you’re staying in youth hostels, you can count on about 40-50 euros a day to cover everything other than transportation. Scandinavia and London are most expensive, Spain and Greece are the cheapest. Barbara

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SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass. Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…!

50 euros per day is cutting it pretty close even by youth budget standards.  I’d stay away from London. You will learn costcutting measures as you go.  Sleeping on the train is one, if you get desperate.  Hostels with laundry facilites are a godsend, since European coin-operated laundromats are generally very expensive (at least by US standards).  Spain is not too bad on this count, though.  Buy soap at a supermarket.  Also remember to buy bottled water at supermarkets.  Hostels with kitchens are also a major money saver. Bring your own "sleeping sack", basically two sheets sewn together, and a pillow with pillowcase. — "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."          - Abraham Lincoln

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass. Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…! 50 euros per day is cutting it pretty close even by youth budget standards.  I’d stay away from London. You will learn costcutting measures as you go.  Sleeping on the train is one, if you get desperate.  Hostels with laundry facilites are a godsend, since European coin-operated laundromats are generally very expensive (at least by US standards).  Spain is not too bad on this count, though.  Buy soap at a supermarket.  Also remember to buy bottled water at supermarkets.  Hostels with kitchens are also a major money saver. Bring your own "sleeping sack", basically two sheets sewn together, and a pillow with pillowcase.

<snip You can do OK on that kind of money in France, if you don’t eat in restaurants. You can rent rooms in gites for about 30 euros in the country (if you can get there from the rail line). I think you can do better everywhere than hostels on that budget if you stay in zimmer, gites, camerae, etc., i.e. rooms in people’s houses. If you hitchhike through the countryside once you hop off the train, and look for lodging in smaller towns, buy bread, cheese, veggies and sausage at bakeries, delis and grocers, or roadside stands, you can live like a king, and meet lots of interesting people. That said, hostels are still the best bargains (usually), but watch out for thieves. — John Starrett "We have nothing to fear but the scary stuff"

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We (couple) are on the same budget as you for 3 months. Leaving Australia 29 May and returning 6 September 2003.  We are taking a tent so that we save on accomodation.  There are camp sites everywhere we look. The other great thing is www.globalfreeloaders.com where you stay with people for free!!!  Only condition is, you have to be prepared to accomodate people in your home for free.  Not a problem if you like free accomodation and meeting people.

SOooooooo… I’m travelling off to Europe in July. I’ll have around $7000 to spend after purchasing a 3 month unlimited eurail pass. Will this be enough money for a 3 month trip around the place? How much should I be budgeting for? I don’t mind slumming…!

: S2108509 at student rmit edu au

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Question:

My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France.

<snip Jacob, you’ve been given a lot of good advice by others. I’ll add one thing: as you seem to imply that you don’t speak any (or much) French or Italian, it might be a bad idea to do two countries. If you spend all the time in France, you’ll find after a few days that you’re a lot more confident in using the language (which, remember, involves things like reading signs and menus, as much as speaking). But if you then hop over to Italy, you’ll have to start back at square one with Italian, and by the time you get back to France you’ll have forgotten the French you were starting to pick up! This is a fairly minor point, but worth considering. On your general query about language and whether it’s possible to get by with a phrasebook, you’ll have no problem at all in cities and tourist areas. English is very widely spoken although, of course, it is polite (and fun) to use the local language as far as you can. In smaller out-of-the-way places it might be a little harder to find an English speaker, but young people in particular will almost always know enough to communicate with you on a basic level — and sometimes on a very sophisticated one. My advice, which will probably have professional linguists tearing their hair out, is to not worry about grammar too much and just try to get the right words in more or less the right order — if the precise form of the word is slightly wrong, people will usually still understand you. BTW I find a pocket dictionary invaluable as phrasebooks almost invariably lack the precise word you are looking for (they’ll tell you about apples, and pears, and oranges, and kumquats, but omit bananas when you REALLY want a banana).

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expressed first-time jitters and asked for reassurance about money lodging safety travel itinerary Jacob: You wlil have a ball! Another poster recommended the book *Europe through the Back Door* by Rick Steves–it’s a great book for first-time travelers (especially Americans) that directly addresses your issues (and many others). If you live near a decent public library I’d also recommend casing its travel section for ideas and to sample the different kinds of guidebooks. What I mean by that is you’ll probably use some guidebooks to plan and enjoy your trip, and they all have their strengths and quirks. So begin by understanding the personality of, say, Lonely Planet versus Michelin or Eyewitness or whatever. You can also take note of sights and activities that interest you but are not on the "A " list that you and your girlfriend already know about. (For instance, did you know that Paris has some fabulous street markets? And Roman ruins? That sort of thing.) Then pick one or two books that you like and *go to a bookstore to get the 2003 edition of those books.* (Most recent is critical.) Spend 30 or 50 bucks of that $1,500 before on information before you go–it will save you money and give you a much better experience. The more you can plan, the less anxious you will feel–and the better trip you will have.

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Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke’s excellent advice.

Make that               Schwanke.    Sorry, WG.

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip. I agree that a price of under 500 baht is cheap for a return ticket from Bangkok to Paris. (message: why do you assume that we know 1) where you live and 2) what currency you normally use?)

Because what currency he uses and where he lives has no bearing on the questions he is asking.  Whether it’s 500 bahts or 500 yuans or 500 lire, what does it matter to you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sjoerd

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

Jacod, there is a book called Paris for Dummies.  Bad title, but does contain helpful hints for first timers.   Also check out Rick Steve’s web site.  He has very down to earth advice for Paris and France.

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It would take you an entire day to travel by train from Paris to Italy, while from Paris to Amsterdam is about 5 hours.  Keep in

One could certainly take a night train but the travel time during the day is 5 hours.  I don’t know if I would take a night train for a trip of that length or not.  A couchette costs about $20, same as a night in a hostel. Nope.  It would take one night.  Book couchettes for an overnight train when you arrive in paris (you might need to go to the train station to do this) saves time, saves money. Try to get the top two bunks of the couchettes, that will leave you near your luggage and give you a tad more privacy. Isn’t norhtern Europe STILL more expensive than southern europe?  And a lot colder in April (though I;ve done April in the Netherlands, and if you do it try to get to see those tulips; maybe Keukenhof Gardens)

Hotel rooms are somewhat higher in Amsterdam than in many parts of Italy.  But hostels are readily available.  I traveled to Rome in early April and it was not very warm.  Southern Italy is warmer but the travel time would be long — one can take a night train, of course.  I’ve done a night train between Paris and Rome a couple of times.

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Hi, 10 days should be 2 cities max. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

– "But to live outside the law, you must be honest" Bob Dylan – Absolutely Sweet Marie – 1966

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Hotel rooms are somewhat higher in Amsterdam than in many parts of Italy.

On the contrary – they’re mostly much lower, in fact many of them are even below sea level —         — Chris.

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True, seems like one can spend weeks in Paris and hardly absorb much more than a small percantage of what it can offer…but this is my first trip so I’ll probably just skim the surface and have a better grasp of things when I come back.

Hi, the green micheline guide to paris has excellent "tours" for those with limited time in Paris… and they’re pretty optimistic on what you can cover in a day. I’ve been visiting Paris for over 40 years now and it still hasn’t shown me all there is to see and do. you mentioned italy… ok… say if you split your time between Paris at 7 days, Florence at 3 with an overnight train between them you’re probably ok. a week in Paris isn’t long… especially if you do some day trips out of Paris… say to Chartre, Orleans, Reims, Epernay, etc. — "But to live outside the law, you must be honest" Bob Dylan – Absolutely Sweet Marie – 1966

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. . Jacob, Run out and buy a copy of Lonely Planet’s "Europe on a Shoestring." Info and tips on my site will also be helpful. Visit it at http://www.enjoy-europe.com/ John Bermont

If you insist on seeing Paris and Italy.  Check out EasyJet.  Its a very cheap way to get from Paris to Nice and it is much quicker than by train.  From Nice you can easily train over to the Italian Riviera. Disclaimer:  I haven’t done this before.  My trip isn’t until next week, but I’ve done tons of research (this newsgroup is very helpful), booked all major travel (easyjet included), and it could not be easier

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke’s excellent advice. Your first day is wasted after 12- to 17-hours in flight.  That leaves you 2 days in Paris – if you’re lucky.  2 weeks in Paris is more reasonable – it’s a marvelous place, awash in history and culture, and the food…  the food…  (did I mention wine?). I disagree.  If you can sleep on an airplane, and if you take it easy the first day, but stay up until 9 PM local time or so, you can enjoy that first day. It might not be the day to do the Louvre, but the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame are very doable that first day.  Try to have hotel reservations when you arrive, if just for the security of that first time.  I still make reser- vations for the first night or when I travel with more than 4 people. Also I disagree about the spend the whole time in Paris thing.  While Paris can take weeks to visit in depth, you can do the highlights in 4 – 5 days.

I would go further than that and say that you can ‘do’ the highlights of most cities in 2-3 days. Take a guided hop-on hop-off tour bus the first day to get your bearings and then do the other day(s) on your own. For a first visit to Europe this will give a good overview and let the OP decide where to spend more time on a return visit. However a better/different way of doing it is to book a cruise of the Baltic or Med (or both), that way although you only get to see each place for a day, you don’t get the hassles of transport or booking into and out of hotels. and maybe follow that up with a few days in Paris and/or London.

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Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke’s excellent advice. Your first day is wasted after 12- to 17-hours in flight.  That leaves you 2 days in Paris – if you’re lucky.  2 weeks in Paris is more reasonable – it’s a marvelous place, awash in history and culture, and the food…  the food…  (did I mention wine?).

I disagree.  If you can sleep on an airplane, and if you take it easy the first day, but stay up until 9 PM local time or so, you can enjoy that first day.   It might not be the day to do the Louvre, but the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame are very doable that first day.  Try to have hotel reservations when you arrive, if just for the security of that first time.  I still make reser- vations for the first night or when I travel with more than 4 people.   Also I disagree about the spend the whole time in Paris thing.  While Paris can take weeks to visit in depth, you can do the highlights in 4 – 5 days.  I’d pick a single other city to visit, plan overnight trains to save time between them and split the time.  If you get much below 3 or 4 days per city you will find yourself more focused with logistics than enjoyment, but you can comfort- ably do Paris and Florence or Paris and Rome, or Paris and Amsterdam, or Paris and London, or Paris and  Berlin or Paris and Munich in 10 days. Have fun. Many folks have suggested getting a travel guide.  A great suggestion.  Given the fact that  you will be doing two or three major cities, the Rick Steves guides might be great.  You might want to read Rick Steves’ Europe Through the Back Door (at least the first half of it).  This book is a quick, fun, easy read and the thing is does better than anything, is reassure the novice budget European Traveller that you really can do it.  His choices of where to go are arguable, some of his budget techniques are arguable (there are two that I would never do) but his attitude and philosophy are great and can make the difference between a really successful European experience and a so-so one. IN Paris, of course, it helps if you speak the best French you are able to.   Parisians who will not speak wth you if you approach them in English will be much more warm to a french greeting, please, thank  you etc.  Therea are warm parisians, not just rude ones, and helpful ones,  look for them. Other travel guides I like are the Lonely Planet and Rough Guides.  Let’s Go is also good for finding Bargains.  I usually get several and tear out the pieces I like. For a trip like this I would get Let’s Go and probably Lonely Planet for both places I am going; you might be able to go to the library and get them, then copy pages you want. Julie — Julie Check out my Traval Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

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It would take you an entire day to travel by train from Paris to Italy, while from Paris to Amsterdam is about 5 hours.  Keep in

Nope.  It would take one night.  Book couchettes for an overnight train when you arrive in paris (you might need to go to the train station to do this) saves time, saves money. Try to get the top two bunks of the couchettes, that will leave you near your luggage and give you a tad more privacy. Isn’t norhtern Europe STILL more expensive than southern europe?  And a lot colder in April (though I;ve done April in the Netherlands, and if you do it try to get to see those tulips; maybe Keukenhof Gardens) — Julie Check out my Traval Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

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I normally allow 10 days for one city and then go back if I need to see more. I think that trying to see 3 or 4 in that period will mean you mostly see the inside of transport systems. True, seems like one can spend weeks in Paris and hardly absorb much more than a small percantage of what it can offer…but this is my first trip so I’ll probably just skim the surface and have a better grasp of things when I come back.

Yes, this is what many first time travelers to Europe say.  But realize the time needed to travel between cities and that you will lose a day at each end and then think carefully about how much time you REALLY will have for what you are there for.  People who post to this group are for the most part very experienced travelers — that is why you are asking us questions, right?  So if you insist on seeing several cities in such a short period, be aware you are doing so against expert advice.  But it is your trip, not ours.

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke’s excellent advice. Your first day is wasted after 12- to 17-hours in flight.  That leaves you 2 days in Paris – if you’re lucky.  2 weeks in Paris is more reasonable – it’s a marvelous place, awash in history and culture, and the food…  the food…  (did I mention wine?). My advice: go to Paris, spend your whole vacation there, take lots of pictures of things you never suspected you would find, and wander down side streets.  You can buy really good pix of the Eiffel Tower, but you can’t buy pictures of your memories; you can only take them yourself. Your VISA will work in almost every ATM you find.

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Whoops, I forgot the dollar symbol before the amounts…i’m in the USA… Not quite sure where you got the Bangkok/Paris thing…sarcasm, perhaps? It was as good a guess as any.. BTW.. No problem using VISA in Europe. As for things to do/see you can of course find most of the must see things on the net but you might just buy a few city guides for cities you intend to visit. Going from Paris to Italy you’ll cover a large area … why not go north instead and cut time ‘on the road’? Bruges, Brussels might interest you Time permitting maybe you could go to Amsterdam….

It would take you an entire day to travel by train from Paris to Italy, while from Paris to Amsterdam is about 5 hours.  Keep in mind you will "lose" one day at each end of your trip getting from and to the airport, etc.  There are a number of sidetrips you can make out of Paris and return same day.  Also keep in mind that every time you change cities considerable time is used in finding and traveling to and checking into a hotel or hostel. Paris has many hostels, official and private — the cost is about $20 per person.  Two of you could perhaps do as well with a cheap hotel — you may not have a private bath but neither will you at a hostel.  Go to the library and get some guidebooks on Paris — Let’s Go, for one, and look at hotels and general info.  You can find a simple hotel room for 2 for around $50 a night in Paris. Traveling to and spending a couple of days in Amsterdam would be a good choice, in my opinion.  It is a walkable, lively city, lots of fun.  And there is plenty to do in and around Paris for more than 3 days.  On your budget, you will do better to limit yourself to a couple of cities and not use up your funds on train tickets.

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I normally allow 10 days for one city and then go back if I need to see more. I think that trying to see 3 or 4 in that period will mean you mostly see the inside of transport systems.

True, seems like one can spend weeks in Paris and hardly absorb much more than a small percantage of what it can offer…but this is my first trip so I’ll probably just skim the surface and have a better grasp of things when I come back. I would have thought, as you are probably American – most others tell us which country they are coming from – that French/English and Italian/English books would be more use.

LOL!!  True, for some stupid reason I only expected to get responses from domestic sources…I have to start learning that the USA isn’t the center of the world.. I actually meant French/English and Italian/English phrase books, sorry for not clarifying…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

Jacob, Run out and buy a copy of Lonely Planet’s "Europe on a Shoestring." Info and tips on my site will also be helpful. Visit it at http://www.enjoy-europe.com/ John Bermont —    * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *              http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whoops, I forgot the dollar symbol before the amounts…i’m in the USA… Not quite sure where you got the Bangkok/Paris thing…sarcasm, perhaps? It was as good a guess as any.. BTW.. No problem using VISA in Europe. As for things to do/see you can of course find most of the must see things on the net but you might just buy a few city guides for cities you intend to visit. Going from Paris to Italy you’ll cover a large area … why not go north instead and cut time ‘on the road’? Bruges, Brussels might interest you Time permitting maybe you could go to Amsterdam…. English will get you to most places but remember not everyone speaks english. As for safety… use common sense… some areas are to be avoided (in any city)… Enjoy the trip…. Bye Maurice

I agree with Maurice. Consider visiting Amsterdam, either stopping at intermediate places in Belgium ot taking the convenient direct Paris – Amsterdam night train (you’ll save a hotel night) You can buy your tickets at any train station in Paris just a couple of days before. Amsterdam is a wonderful city, and _everybody_ speaks English, so if you are intimidated about language this may be a good choice. Anyway, relax and enjoy your trip. You’re not the first person who does a trip with little or no planning at all     Alejandro

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True, everything is up in the air right now, so nothing is for sure… By the way, anyone interested, I found this great link to a few cheap hostels in Paris: www.cheaphostel.com

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France.

I normally allow 10 days for one city and then go back if I need to see more. I think that trying to see 3 or 4 in that period will mean you mostly see the inside of transport systems. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!

Buy a copy of the Rough Guide for whatever countries you choose. They are specifically aimed at people travelling on a budget. Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?

I would have thought, as you are probably American – most others tell us which country they are coming from – that French/English and Italian/English books would be more use. Personally, I never use phrase books. Most people memorise the phrase they want, rattle it off, then get totally confused by the reply, particularly as it is rarely the one the phrase book tells you to expect. There is a principle that was taught to people using morse code that works as well for language – never send your message any faster than you want to receive the answer. I usually carry a translating dictionary then, if I cannot find someone who speaks English, German or French (unlikely in France) and waving arms does not work, I point to the appropriate word in the book. It shows that I have no idea about the language concerned and usually results in a much more carefully constructed response. However, in the tourists areas of major cities, it will be rare not to be able to find people who speak English, often excellent English. Would most places accept my Visa check card?

Is that the same as a Visa credit card? If so, it is the most widely accepted credit card in Europe, although MasterCard comes close and I find AmEx widely accepted too. Colin Bignell

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.

I agree that a price of under 500 baht is cheap for a return ticket from Bangkok to Paris. (message: why do you assume that we know 1) where you live and 2) what currency you normally use?) Sjoerd

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Whoops, I forgot the dollar symbol before the amounts…i’m in the USA… Not quite sure where you got the Bangkok/Paris thing…sarcasm, perhaps?

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Whoops, I forgot the dollar symbol before the amounts…i’m in the USA… Not quite sure where you got the Bangkok/Paris thing…sarcasm, perhaps?

It was as good a guess as any.. BTW.. No problem using VISA in Europe. As for things to do/see you can of course find most of the must see things on the net but you might just buy a few city guides for cities you intend to visit. Going from Paris to Italy you’ll cover a large area … why not go north instead and cut time ‘on the road’? Bruges, Brussels might interest you Time permitting maybe you could go to Amsterdam…. English will get you to most places but remember not everyone speaks english. As for safety… use common sense… some areas are to be avoided (in any city)… Enjoy the trip…. Bye Maurice — Hamradio: ON4BAM / M0CIL / 9H3Z  http://www.qsl.net/on4bam Travelstories from Alaska, Scotland, South Africa,Iceland, Faroe Isl. and IOTA activations

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.

I agree that a price of under 500 baht is cheap for a return ticket from Bangkok to Paris. (message: why do you assume that we know 1) where you live and 2) what currency you normally use?) Sjoerd

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Whoops, I forgot the dollar symbol before the amounts…i’m in the USA… Not quite sure where you got the Bangkok/Paris thing…sarcasm, perhaps?

Response:

Whoops, I forgot the dollar symbol before the amounts…i’m in the USA… Not quite sure where you got the Bangkok/Paris thing…sarcasm, perhaps?

It was as good a guess as any.. BTW.. No problem using VISA in Europe. As for things to do/see you can of course find most of the must see things on the net but you might just buy a few city guides for cities you intend to visit. Going from Paris to Italy you’ll cover a large area … why not go north instead and cut time ‘on the road’? Bruges, Brussels might interest you Time permitting maybe you could go to Amsterdam…. English will get you to most places but remember not everyone speaks english. As for safety… use common sense… some areas are to be avoided (in any city)… Enjoy the trip…. Bye Maurice — Hamradio: ON4BAM / M0CIL / 9H3Z  http://www.qsl.net/on4bam Travelstories from Alaska, Scotland, South Africa,Iceland, Faroe Isl. and IOTA activations

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True, everything is up in the air right now, so nothing is for sure… By the way, anyone interested, I found this great link to a few cheap hostels in Paris: www.cheaphostel.com

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France.

I normally allow 10 days for one city and then go back if I need to see more. I think that trying to see 3 or 4 in that period will mean you mostly see the inside of transport systems. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!

Buy a copy of the Rough Guide for whatever countries you choose. They are specifically aimed at people travelling on a budget. Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?

I would have thought, as you are probably American – most others tell us which country they are coming from – that French/English and Italian/English books would be more use. Personally, I never use phrase books. Most people memorise the phrase they want, rattle it off, then get totally confused by the reply, particularly as it is rarely the one the phrase book tells you to expect. There is a principle that was taught to people using morse code that works as well for language – never send your message any faster than you want to receive the answer. I usually carry a translating dictionary then, if I cannot find someone who speaks English, German or French (unlikely in France) and waving arms does not work, I point to the appropriate word in the book. It shows that I have no idea about the language concerned and usually results in a much more carefully constructed response. However, in the tourists areas of major cities, it will be rare not to be able to find people who speak English, often excellent English. Would most places accept my Visa check card?

Is that the same as a Visa credit card? If so, it is the most widely accepted credit card in Europe, although MasterCard comes close and I find AmEx widely accepted too. Colin Bignell

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I normally allow 10 days for one city and then go back if I need to see more. I think that trying to see 3 or 4 in that period will mean you mostly see the inside of transport systems.

True, seems like one can spend weeks in Paris and hardly absorb much more than a small percantage of what it can offer…but this is my first trip so I’ll probably just skim the surface and have a better grasp of things when I come back. I would have thought, as you are probably American – most others tell us which country they are coming from – that French/English and Italian/English books would be more use.

LOL!!  True, for some stupid reason I only expected to get responses from domestic sources…I have to start learning that the USA isn’t the center of the world.. I actually meant French/English and Italian/English phrase books, sorry for not clarifying…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

Jacob, Run out and buy a copy of Lonely Planet’s "Europe on a Shoestring." Info and tips on my site will also be helpful. Visit it at http://www.enjoy-europe.com/ John Bermont —    * * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *              http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whoops, I forgot the dollar symbol before the amounts…i’m in the USA… Not quite sure where you got the Bangkok/Paris thing…sarcasm, perhaps? It was as good a guess as any.. BTW.. No problem using VISA in Europe. As for things to do/see you can of course find most of the must see things on the net but you might just buy a few city guides for cities you intend to visit. Going from Paris to Italy you’ll cover a large area … why not go north instead and cut time ‘on the road’? Bruges, Brussels might interest you Time permitting maybe you could go to Amsterdam…. English will get you to most places but remember not everyone speaks english. As for safety… use common sense… some areas are to be avoided (in any city)… Enjoy the trip…. Bye Maurice

I agree with Maurice. Consider visiting Amsterdam, either stopping at intermediate places in Belgium ot taking the convenient direct Paris – Amsterdam night train (you’ll save a hotel night) You can buy your tickets at any train station in Paris just a couple of days before. Amsterdam is a wonderful city, and _everybody_ speaks English, so if you are intimidated about language this may be a good choice. Anyway, relax and enjoy your trip. You’re not the first person who does a trip with little or no planning at all     Alejandro

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Whoops, I forgot the dollar symbol before the amounts…i’m in the USA… Not quite sure where you got the Bangkok/Paris thing…sarcasm, perhaps? It was as good a guess as any.. BTW.. No problem using VISA in Europe. As for things to do/see you can of course find most of the must see things on the net but you might just buy a few city guides for cities you intend to visit. Going from Paris to Italy you’ll cover a large area … why not go north instead and cut time ‘on the road’? Bruges, Brussels might interest you Time permitting maybe you could go to Amsterdam….

It would take you an entire day to travel by train from Paris to Italy, while from Paris to Amsterdam is about 5 hours.  Keep in mind you will "lose" one day at each end of your trip getting from and to the airport, etc.  There are a number of sidetrips you can make out of Paris and return same day.  Also keep in mind that every time you change cities considerable time is used in finding and traveling to and checking into a hotel or hostel. Paris has many hostels, official and private — the cost is about $20 per person.  Two of you could perhaps do as well with a cheap hotel — you may not have a private bath but neither will you at a hostel.  Go to the library and get some guidebooks on Paris — Let’s Go, for one, and look at hotels and general info.  You can find a simple hotel room for 2 for around $50 a night in Paris. Traveling to and spending a couple of days in Amsterdam would be a good choice, in my opinion.  It is a walkable, lively city, lots of fun.  And there is plenty to do in and around Paris for more than 3 days.  On your budget, you will do better to limit yourself to a couple of cities and not use up your funds on train tickets.

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke’s excellent advice. Your first day is wasted after 12- to 17-hours in flight.  That leaves you 2 days in Paris – if you’re lucky.  2 weeks in Paris is more reasonable – it’s a marvelous place, awash in history and culture, and the food…  the food…  (did I mention wine?). My advice: go to Paris, spend your whole vacation there, take lots of pictures of things you never suspected you would find, and wander down side streets.  You can buy really good pix of the Eiffel Tower, but you can’t buy pictures of your memories; you can only take them yourself. Your VISA will work in almost every ATM you find.

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I normally allow 10 days for one city and then go back if I need to see more. I think that trying to see 3 or 4 in that period will mean you mostly see the inside of transport systems. True, seems like one can spend weeks in Paris and hardly absorb much more than a small percantage of what it can offer…but this is my first trip so I’ll probably just skim the surface and have a better grasp of things when I come back.

Yes, this is what many first time travelers to Europe say.  But realize the time needed to travel between cities and that you will lose a day at each end and then think carefully about how much time you REALLY will have for what you are there for.  People who post to this group are for the most part very experienced travelers — that is why you are asking us questions, right?  So if you insist on seeing several cities in such a short period, be aware you are doing so against expert advice.  But it is your trip, not ours.

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It would take you an entire day to travel by train from Paris to Italy, while from Paris to Amsterdam is about 5 hours.  Keep in

Nope.  It would take one night.  Book couchettes for an overnight train when you arrive in paris (you might need to go to the train station to do this) saves time, saves money. Try to get the top two bunks of the couchettes, that will leave you near your luggage and give you a tad more privacy. Isn’t norhtern Europe STILL more expensive than southern europe?  And a lot colder in April (though I;ve done April in the Netherlands, and if you do it try to get to see those tulips; maybe Keukenhof Gardens) — Julie Check out my Traval Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

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Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke’s excellent advice. Your first day is wasted after 12- to 17-hours in flight.  That leaves you 2 days in Paris – if you’re lucky.  2 weeks in Paris is more reasonable – it’s a marvelous place, awash in history and culture, and the food…  the food…  (did I mention wine?).

I disagree.  If you can sleep on an airplane, and if you take it easy the first day, but stay up until 9 PM local time or so, you can enjoy that first day.   It might not be the day to do the Louvre, but the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame are very doable that first day.  Try to have hotel reservations when you arrive, if just for the security of that first time.  I still make reser- vations for the first night or when I travel with more than 4 people.   Also I disagree about the spend the whole time in Paris thing.  While Paris can take weeks to visit in depth, you can do the highlights in 4 – 5 days.  I’d pick a single other city to visit, plan overnight trains to save time between them and split the time.  If you get much below 3 or 4 days per city you will find yourself more focused with logistics than enjoyment, but you can comfort- ably do Paris and Florence or Paris and Rome, or Paris and Amsterdam, or Paris and London, or Paris and  Berlin or Paris and Munich in 10 days. Have fun. Many folks have suggested getting a travel guide.  A great suggestion.  Given the fact that  you will be doing two or three major cities, the Rick Steves guides might be great.  You might want to read Rick Steves’ Europe Through the Back Door (at least the first half of it).  This book is a quick, fun, easy read and the thing is does better than anything, is reassure the novice budget European Traveller that you really can do it.  His choices of where to go are arguable, some of his budget techniques are arguable (there are two that I would never do) but his attitude and philosophy are great and can make the difference between a really successful European experience and a so-so one. IN Paris, of course, it helps if you speak the best French you are able to.   Parisians who will not speak wth you if you approach them in English will be much more warm to a french greeting, please, thank  you etc.  Therea are warm parisians, not just rude ones, and helpful ones,  look for them. Other travel guides I like are the Lonely Planet and Rough Guides.  Let’s Go is also good for finding Bargains.  I usually get several and tear out the pieces I like. For a trip like this I would get Let’s Go and probably Lonely Planet for both places I am going; you might be able to go to the library and get them, then copy pages you want. Julie — Julie Check out my Traval Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. . Jacob, Run out and buy a copy of Lonely Planet’s "Europe on a Shoestring." Info and tips on my site will also be helpful. Visit it at http://www.enjoy-europe.com/ John Bermont

If you insist on seeing Paris and Italy.  Check out EasyJet.  Its a very cheap way to get from Paris to Nice and it is much quicker than by train.  From Nice you can easily train over to the Italian Riviera. Disclaimer:  I haven’t done this before.  My trip isn’t until next week, but I’ve done tons of research (this newsgroup is very helpful), booked all major travel (easyjet included), and it could not be easier

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke’s excellent advice. Your first day is wasted after 12- to 17-hours in flight.  That leaves you 2 days in Paris – if you’re lucky.  2 weeks in Paris is more reasonable – it’s a marvelous place, awash in history and culture, and the food…  the food…  (did I mention wine?). I disagree.  If you can sleep on an airplane, and if you take it easy the first day, but stay up until 9 PM local time or so, you can enjoy that first day. It might not be the day to do the Louvre, but the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame are very doable that first day.  Try to have hotel reservations when you arrive, if just for the security of that first time.  I still make reser- vations for the first night or when I travel with more than 4 people. Also I disagree about the spend the whole time in Paris thing.  While Paris can take weeks to visit in depth, you can do the highlights in 4 – 5 days.

I would go further than that and say that you can ‘do’ the highlights of most cities in 2-3 days. Take a guided hop-on hop-off tour bus the first day to get your bearings and then do the other day(s) on your own. For a first visit to Europe this will give a good overview and let the OP decide where to spend more time on a return visit. However a better/different way of doing it is to book a cruise of the Baltic or Med (or both), that way although you only get to see each place for a day, you don’t get the hassles of transport or booking into and out of hotels. and maybe follow that up with a few days in Paris and/or London.

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It would take you an entire day to travel by train from Paris to Italy, while from Paris to Amsterdam is about 5 hours.  Keep in

One could certainly take a night train but the travel time during the day is 5 hours.  I don’t know if I would take a night train for a trip of that length or not.  A couchette costs about $20, same as a night in a hostel. Nope.  It would take one night.  Book couchettes for an overnight train when you arrive in paris (you might need to go to the train station to do this) saves time, saves money. Try to get the top two bunks of the couchettes, that will leave you near your luggage and give you a tad more privacy. Isn’t norhtern Europe STILL more expensive than southern europe?  And a lot colder in April (though I;ve done April in the Netherlands, and if you do it try to get to see those tulips; maybe Keukenhof Gardens)

Hotel rooms are somewhat higher in Amsterdam than in many parts of Italy.  But hostels are readily available.  I traveled to Rome in early April and it was not very warm.  Southern Italy is warmer but the travel time would be long — one can take a night train, of course.  I’ve done a night train between Paris and Rome a couple of times.

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Hi, 10 days should be 2 cities max. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

– "But to live outside the law, you must be honest" Bob Dylan – Absolutely Sweet Marie – 1966

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Hotel rooms are somewhat higher in Amsterdam than in many parts of Italy.

On the contrary – they’re mostly much lower, in fact many of them are even below sea level —         — Chris.

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True, seems like one can spend weeks in Paris and hardly absorb much more than a small percantage of what it can offer…but this is my first trip so I’ll probably just skim the surface and have a better grasp of things when I come back.

Hi, the green micheline guide to paris has excellent "tours" for those with limited time in Paris… and they’re pretty optimistic on what you can cover in a day. I’ve been visiting Paris for over 40 years now and it still hasn’t shown me all there is to see and do. you mentioned italy… ok… say if you split your time between Paris at 7 days, Florence at 3 with an overnight train between them you’re probably ok. a week in Paris isn’t long… especially if you do some day trips out of Paris… say to Chartre, Orleans, Reims, Epernay, etc. — "But to live outside the law, you must be honest" Bob Dylan – Absolutely Sweet Marie – 1966

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expressed first-time jitters and asked for reassurance about money lodging safety travel itinerary Jacob: You wlil have a ball! Another poster recommended the book *Europe through the Back Door* by Rick Steves–it’s a great book for first-time travelers (especially Americans) that directly addresses your issues (and many others). If you live near a decent public library I’d also recommend casing its travel section for ideas and to sample the different kinds of guidebooks. What I mean by that is you’ll probably use some guidebooks to plan and enjoy your trip, and they all have their strengths and quirks. So begin by understanding the personality of, say, Lonely Planet versus Michelin or Eyewitness or whatever. You can also take note of sights and activities that interest you but are not on the "A " list that you and your girlfriend already know about. (For instance, did you know that Paris has some fabulous street markets? And Roman ruins? That sort of thing.) Then pick one or two books that you like and *go to a bookstore to get the 2003 edition of those books.* (Most recent is critical.) Spend 30 or 50 bucks of that $1,500 before on information before you go–it will save you money and give you a much better experience. The more you can plan, the less anxious you will feel–and the better trip you will have.

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Let me second Wolfgang Schweinke’s excellent advice.

Make that               Schwanke.    Sorry, WG.

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip. I agree that a price of under 500 baht is cheap for a return ticket from Bangkok to Paris. (message: why do you assume that we know 1) where you live and 2) what currency you normally use?)

Because what currency he uses and where he lives has no bearing on the questions he is asking.  Whether it’s 500 bahts or 500 yuans or 500 lire, what does it matter to you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sjoerd

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France. Anyway, I’m terrified.  While my girlfriend is a "free spirit" type, I tend to be way to practical and can’t bear the thought of going without a well thought out plan.  Can anyone here help?  We have about 1500. between us for the trip proper.  Any advice on places to stay (hostels or cheap hotels, privacy preferred), cheap eats, safe forms of travel, amount of time recommended for certain cities, a good itinerary…basically anything!!  Is it tough to get by with nothing but a French/Italian phrase book?  Would most places accept my Visa check card?  Help reduce my anxiety, please.. .

Jacod, there is a book called Paris for Dummies.  Bad title, but does contain helpful hints for first timers.   Also check out Rick Steve’s web site.  He has very down to earth advice for Paris and France.

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My girlfriend jumped the gun today and purchased us plane tickets to Europe… Paris, specifically.  Quite a deal at under 500. each, round trip.   We’re suppose to be leaving on April 15th for a 10 day trip, she’s planning on 3 or 4 cities since we have such limited time, probably 3 days in Paris to rest and see the sights, possible a couple of days in a few Italian cities, and back to France.

<snip Jacob, you’ve been given a lot of good advice by others. I’ll add one thing: as you seem to imply that you don’t speak any (or much) French or Italian, it might be a bad idea to do two countries. If you spend all the time in France, you’ll find after a few days that you’re a lot more confident in using the language (which, remember, involves things like reading signs and menus, as much as speaking). But if you then hop over to Italy, you’ll have to start back at square one with Italian, and by the time you get back to France you’ll have forgotten the French you were starting to pick up! This is a fairly minor point, but worth considering. On your general query about language and whether it’s possible to get by with a phrasebook, you’ll have no problem at all in cities and tourist areas. English is very widely spoken although, of course, it is polite (and fun) to use the local language as far as you can. In smaller out-of-the-way places it might be a little harder to find an English speaker, but young people in particular will almost always know enough to communicate with you on a basic level — and sometimes on a very sophisticated one. My advice, which will probably have professional linguists tearing their hair out, is to not worry about grammar too much and just try to get the right words in more or less the right order — if the precise form of the word is slightly wrong, people will usually still understand you. BTW I find a pocket dictionary invaluable as phrasebooks almost invariably lack the precise word you are looking for (they’ll tell you about apples, and pears, and oranges, and kumquats, but omit bananas when you REALLY want a banana).

Response:

Question:

I am a 20 year old Canadian girl travelling to Europe to backpack from May 1st to June 24th. I will be going with three other friends, and while three of us have been to Europe before, these trips were on school tours or with parents when young. We will be starting the trip in Amsterdam and without a doubt will be going to Greece [my friends insist], and will have to end up in Frankfurt to fly home. Somewhere along the line we will be staying in a time share resort for a week, most likely in Greece as well.

Greece – Frankfurt I would only travel one way to Greece by train/ferry and flying the other way. It’s quite some distance. Air Berlin has many flights from Greece to Germany (but flying to Frankfurt itself will be rather expensive) http://www.airberlin.com If you are travelling as a group of 4 a few tips about railway tickets in Germany: a) The 2nd to 5th person travelling on one ticket pay only 50% of the normal ticket price http://www.bahn.de/pv/int_guest/offers/die_bahn_plan_save_travel_toge… tml You can give the number of travellers at the DB timetable to obtain correct prices (only for inner German journeys). http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/english.html b) HappyWeekendTicket EUR 28,- Unlimited travel on local trains on a Saturday or Sunday in whole Germany. Valid for up to 5 people travelling together. http://www.bahn.de/pv/int_guest/offers/pv2_offers_national.shtml c) L

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Playoff schrieb: Hi again, Since i never been to Europe before, i made this route base of the info that i collected from books and forum. However, i am not sure how am i going to connect from one place to others.. i.e Paris – Madrid – Barclona – Avignon etc Can u guys please give me some suggestion whether by air, rail or bus. If it’s will be rail, which type of card will be approriate. Please do comment on my staying duration as well. Once again, thanks all! Getting more excited for my first europe trip!!! Newcastle

Gp tp Glasgow (friendliest town on earth) and then to nearby Prestwick and fly RyanAir to Paris (Beauvais). London ( hoping to skip this and direct to paris, but seem have to stop here to Paris)

SKIP IT: London is for "tourists", you have seen it all on TV and you might get there anytime after the age of 60. Doesn’t Newcastle have an airport?

Newcastle has got an airport, but only limited cheap flight. EasyJet is about to start a hub in Newcastle, but nothing has been officialy announced yet. FRANCE.         Paris (7days), day trip to Versailles and Loire Valley

PARIS is definitely worth a trip.  But 4 days would probably be enough. After that, take the night train to Madrid (hope you will have the Eurail Pass). SPAIN   Madrid (3days)

MADRID: 3 days is a minimum. Flamenco, Toledo, Avila, Segovia etc., it’s a great place.                 Barcelona (4days)

I also love BARCELONA: the old town, the beaches (next to the former Olympic village), Miro and other famous artists…but why not stay a last night in the Pyrenees (Puigcerda for example). FRANCE  Avignon (2days), day trip to Aix-en-Provence                 Nice (1day)

I prefer Cannes to Nice. Abything particular you want to see in Nice ‘ Mpnaco certainly is not worth a trip. ITALY   Cinque Terre (1day)                 Florence (3days), day trip to Pisa and Sienna

Why not, even though I would prefer to stay in Siena. I hate the car traffic in Florence.                 Rome (5days)

..and would never stay for 5 days in Rome, to see ruins and the Vatican and…it’s so bloody touristy. Why not spend a couple of nights in Naples instead. The scenery is fabulous.                 Venice (2/3days)

Never been in Venice and I don’t plan to go there. Again…all these tourists, I just hate these postcard cities.                 Milan (1day/may skip)

YES, do skip Milan. Get 3-4 hours for changing the tain, enough to see the Piazza del Duomo and the Scala, then you have seen it all. It is just one of the most ugly and boring cities in Europe. Switzerland   Zermitt (1day)

Make it at least 2 nights in Zermatt, that allows you a full day hike into the mountains and a well-deserved rest. I would even skip Zermatt and stay for a full 3 nights/days in Interlaken.                   Geneva (1day, may drop)

Geneva is a small but extremely international city, very lively and lots of cultural activities. Try to be there on a weekend or – why not – the 4th of July.                   Interlaken (1day)

For Interlaken see above: so many possibilities to explore the jewels of the apls (Jungfrau, Eiger, M

Question:

www.bootsnall.com www.hostelworld.com www.hostels.com That’s should help.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Response:

Originally posted by M. Schormann: Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

  We have a room available this week. Is that an option? — Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

For euro80 a night, you can have half the hotels in Amsterdam, especially in the fall. Just ask at Schiphol airport or when you get off the train at Amsterdam Centraal Station. There is a travel booth right at the airport immediately after you exit customs, and for the travel office at the train station just bear to the left a little as you exit the main door. It’s right help. I just got back to the US after two years in Holland, four train stops from Amsterdam. Cheers, J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.bootsnall.com www.hostelworld.com www.hostels.com That’s should help. Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Response:

let us in on their opinion by saying: For euro80 a night, you can have half the hotels in Amsterdam, especially in the fall. Just ask at Schiphol airport or when you get off the train at Amsterdam Centraal Station. There is a travel booth right at the airport immediately after you exit customs, and for the travel office at the train station just bear to the left a little as you exit the main door. It’s right help. I just got back to the US after two years in Holland, four train stops from Amsterdam. Cheers, J www.bootsnall.com www.hostelworld.com www.hostels.com

I just got back.  Stayed at the Ibis Hotel right next to Central Station.  I paid $65 Euros with tax and a very nice breakfast buffet. I also stayed at the one at the Airport for one night.  It was about $10 more. Try http://www.holland-hotels.com/ibis-centre.html for reservations. There is also a tourist booth right outside the Train Station that makes last minute reservations.  Some people I chatted with got excellent deals waiting until they got there. BTW — The train goes directly from the Airport, Platform 3 to Central Station.  Price is $2.80 Euros. — ZombyWoof You’re not a liberal, you’re a mental patient who isn’t receiving adequate supervision.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.bootsnall.com www.hostelworld.com www.hostels.com That’s should help. Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Don’t use Hostelworld.com.. I ordered two booking using their site, one to Santillan Hostel in Madrid, Spain and one to Darcet Hotel in Paris, France. Although they clearly state that "We do not mark up the beds, so you will get the bed at the same price as if you walked in off the street." this was not the case in both my reservation. The street price at Santillan was 42 for a night, and not 47 like they stated in my reservation. and the street price at Darcet hotel was 55 for a night and not 60 like they stated in my reservation. I reserved the two hotels using their site after reading their clear statement about the booking fee of 2$, but they failed to inform me that there is a fee of another 10% of the charge (the so called "deposit"). I feel very cheated that they are calling the payment to them a "Deposit" and that they write a false statement about the equalty of the street price and the price in their site. This was not a deposit for the hotel – it was a payment for them that was taken in a unfair way !! Call the hostels directly, DO NOT USE THEIR SITE !!!

Response:

Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Response:

with that price you can get a *** stars hotels in the low season.  Just do not arrive on weekend.  In high season July-aug, long line for hostel, space is gone by noon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Response:

Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Response:

with that price you can get a *** stars hotels in the low season.  Just do not arrive on weekend.  In high season July-aug, long line for hostel, space is gone by noon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Response:

www.bootsnall.com www.hostelworld.com www.hostels.com That’s should help.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Response:

Originally posted by M. Schormann: Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

  We have a room available this week. Is that an option? — Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Response:

For euro80 a night, you can have half the hotels in Amsterdam, especially in the fall. Just ask at Schiphol airport or when you get off the train at Amsterdam Centraal Station. There is a travel booth right at the airport immediately after you exit customs, and for the travel office at the train station just bear to the left a little as you exit the main door. It’s right help. I just got back to the US after two years in Holland, four train stops from Amsterdam. Cheers, J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.bootsnall.com www.hostelworld.com www.hostels.com That’s should help. Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Response:

let us in on their opinion by saying: For euro80 a night, you can have half the hotels in Amsterdam, especially in the fall. Just ask at Schiphol airport or when you get off the train at Amsterdam Centraal Station. There is a travel booth right at the airport immediately after you exit customs, and for the travel office at the train station just bear to the left a little as you exit the main door. It’s right help. I just got back to the US after two years in Holland, four train stops from Amsterdam. Cheers, J www.bootsnall.com www.hostelworld.com www.hostels.com

I just got back.  Stayed at the Ibis Hotel right next to Central Station.  I paid $65 Euros with tax and a very nice breakfast buffet. I also stayed at the one at the Airport for one night.  It was about $10 more. Try http://www.holland-hotels.com/ibis-centre.html for reservations. There is also a tourist booth right outside the Train Station that makes last minute reservations.  Some people I chatted with got excellent deals waiting until they got there. BTW — The train goes directly from the Airport, Platform 3 to Central Station.  Price is $2.80 Euros. — ZombyWoof You’re not a liberal, you’re a mental patient who isn’t receiving adequate supervision.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – www.bootsnall.com www.hostelworld.com www.hostels.com That’s should help. Hello, can anybody tell me a nice and cheap hotel/hostel in Amsterdam? It should be not expensive….highest around 80 Euro for a twin-bedroom. thanx Maik

Don’t use Hostelworld.com.. I ordered two booking using their site, one to Santillan Hostel in Madrid, Spain and one to Darcet Hotel in Paris, France. Although they clearly state that "We do not mark up the beds, so you will get the bed at the same price as if you walked in off the street." this was not the case in both my reservation. The street price at Santillan was 42 for a night, and not 47 like they stated in my reservation. and the street price at Darcet hotel was 55 for a night and not 60 like they stated in my reservation. I reserved the two hotels using their site after reading their clear statement about the booking fee of 2$, but they failed to inform me that there is a fee of another 10% of the charge (the so called "deposit"). I feel very cheated that they are calling the payment to them a "Deposit" and that they write a false statement about the equalty of the street price and the price in their site. This was not a deposit for the hotel – it was a payment for them that was taken in a unfair way !! Call the hostels directly, DO NOT USE THEIR SITE !!!

Response:

Question:

A further word on this, in French (at least) ‘castle’ is often treated the same as "chateau".  A true castle, in the medieval sense, is a "chateau fort".  From the Rennaissance on, chateau came to meen more the palaces of the wealthy, such as the Loir Valley ones.  In later periods, a ‘chateau’ could be much more modest, though still substantially more impressive than an ordinary person’s home.  So you have to be careful about the descriptions, if what you’re really looking for is turrets and battlements.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A further word on this, in French (at least) ‘castle’ is often treated the same as "chateau".  A true castle, in the medieval sense, is a "chateau fort".  From the Rennaissance on, chateau came to meen more the palaces of the wealthy, such as the Loir Valley ones.  In later periods, a ‘chateau’ could be much more modest, though still substantially more impressive than an ordinary person’s home.  So you have to be careful about the descriptions, if what you’re really looking for is turrets and battlements. Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

There are all kinds of youth hostels in Germany which are located in converted castles(palaces, too) for roughly 1/10 of the cost of an overnight stay in a castle hotel, but they are not in the big cities. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

There is one in La Spezia in Italy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? There’s one in Bacharach http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001710.html at the top of a hill http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001760.html. Did a quick google search, and found this http://members.shaw.ca/guideforeurope/castlehostels.html which should give you plenty of choices. joan

Emilia Bedilia

Response:

Ooops sorry, I missed the original post stating what cities the OP will be visiting… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is one in La Spezia in Italy. Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? There’s one in Bacharach http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001710.html at the top of a hill http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001760.html. Did a quick google search, and found this http://members.shaw.ca/guideforeurope/castlehostels.html which should give you plenty of choices. joan

Emilia Bedilia

Response:

Is there a good directory for these sorts of hostels?  I’m planning on going to Europe next summer and I would love the experience of staying an a castle hostel.

 Well, the German ones are on the hostel page, www.djh.de. I don’t know how it works in English because I always use the German version, but you need to look for the ones with "Burg" or "Schloss" in the title. I seem to remember just typing the word in a search form last time I was prospecting there.  Austria doesn’t have as many, but I’m planning on staying in some of them next year. There you have to go down the whole list of every hostel in the country to find the ones in castles. Some  also have their own web pages. Look at the trip accounts attached to my website for some links to ones I’ve stayed in. Warning: they tend to be popular and if you want to be sure of a bed, you need to reserve one in advance. I’ve found some of them full many months in advance. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

I stayed in the castle in Bacharach about five years ago. It was great. Wonderful view, decent accomodations, and a plentiful breakfast. Since you’re backpacking, allow plenty of time for the walk up the hill, but you’re still better off than those who drive, because, not unlike the rest of Europe, there’s no place to park. Enjoy!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? There’s one in Bacharach http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001710.html at the top of a hill http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001760.html. Did a quick google search, and found this http://members.shaw.ca/guideforeurope/castlehostels.html which should give you plenty of choices. joan

Response:

Is there a good directory for these sorts of hostels?  I’m planning on going to Europe next summer and I would love the experience of staying an a castle hostel. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are all kinds of youth hostels in Germany which are located in converted castles(palaces, too) for roughly 1/10 of the cost of an overnight stay in a castle hotel, but they are not in the big cities. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Response:

Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist?

There’s one in Bacharach http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001710.html at the top of a hill http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001760.html. Did a quick google search, and found this http://members.shaw.ca/guideforeurope/castlehostels.html which should give you plenty of choices. joan

Response:

Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

Response:

There are many.  A quick search on Google or other search engine will give you lots of hits on the words castle+hotel+france (and the other combinations).  One website to get you going:  www.castlesontheweb.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are many.  A quick search on Google or other search engine will give you lots of hits on the words castle+hotel+france (and the other combinations).  One website to get you going:  www.castlesontheweb.com Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

I was going to recommend Schloss Harburg on the Romantic Road. http://www.ireg.de/historische-staetten/i_e-harb.htm and http://www.fuerst-wallerstein.de/englisch/harburg/index.html Then I noticed you were traveling by rail so don’t know whether Harburg is on a rail line or not.  The Europabus that travels the Romantic Road used to be included on railpasses but I don’t know if that’s still the case. Quite a few years ago we spent a night in this castle hotel after just happening upon it late in the day.  At that time it wasn’t very expensive but there’s no rate information on their website so I don’t know what the current cost would be.  It’s very picturesque and charming.  We had a round room in one of the towers. GG

Response:

Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

Response:

There are many.  A quick search on Google or other search engine will give you lots of hits on the words castle+hotel+france (and the other combinations).  One website to get you going:  www.castlesontheweb.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are many.  A quick search on Google or other search engine will give you lots of hits on the words castle+hotel+france (and the other combinations).  One website to get you going:  www.castlesontheweb.com Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

I was going to recommend Schloss Harburg on the Romantic Road. http://www.ireg.de/historische-staetten/i_e-harb.htm and http://www.fuerst-wallerstein.de/englisch/harburg/index.html Then I noticed you were traveling by rail so don’t know whether Harburg is on a rail line or not.  The Europabus that travels the Romantic Road used to be included on railpasses but I don’t know if that’s still the case. Quite a few years ago we spent a night in this castle hotel after just happening upon it late in the day.  At that time it wasn’t very expensive but there’s no rate information on their website so I don’t know what the current cost would be.  It’s very picturesque and charming.  We had a round room in one of the towers. GG

Response:

Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist?

There’s one in Bacharach http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001710.html at the top of a hill http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001760.html. Did a quick google search, and found this http://members.shaw.ca/guideforeurope/castlehostels.html which should give you plenty of choices. joan

Response:

There is one in La Spezia in Italy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? There’s one in Bacharach http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001710.html at the top of a hill http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001760.html. Did a quick google search, and found this http://members.shaw.ca/guideforeurope/castlehostels.html which should give you plenty of choices. joan

Emilia Bedilia

Response:

Ooops sorry, I missed the original post stating what cities the OP will be visiting… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is one in La Spezia in Italy. Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? There’s one in Bacharach http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001710.html at the top of a hill http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001760.html. Did a quick google search, and found this http://members.shaw.ca/guideforeurope/castlehostels.html which should give you plenty of choices. joan

Emilia Bedilia

Response:

A further word on this, in French (at least) ‘castle’ is often treated the same as "chateau".  A true castle, in the medieval sense, is a "chateau fort".  From the Rennaissance on, chateau came to meen more the palaces of the wealthy, such as the Loir Valley ones.  In later periods, a ‘chateau’ could be much more modest, though still substantially more impressive than an ordinary person’s home.  So you have to be careful about the descriptions, if what you’re really looking for is turrets and battlements.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A further word on this, in French (at least) ‘castle’ is often treated the same as "chateau".  A true castle, in the medieval sense, is a "chateau fort".  From the Rennaissance on, chateau came to meen more the palaces of the wealthy, such as the Loir Valley ones.  In later periods, a ‘chateau’ could be much more modest, though still substantially more impressive than an ordinary person’s home.  So you have to be careful about the descriptions, if what you’re really looking for is turrets and battlements. Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? The Cities I plan to visit (via Europass) Amsterdam (landing) Munich Venice Florence Rome Nice Paris Thanks, Bud.

There are all kinds of youth hostels in Germany which are located in converted castles(palaces, too) for roughly 1/10 of the cost of an overnight stay in a castle hotel, but they are not in the big cities. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

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Is there a good directory for these sorts of hostels?  I’m planning on going to Europe next summer and I would love the experience of staying an a castle hostel. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are all kinds of youth hostels in Germany which are located in converted castles(palaces, too) for roughly 1/10 of the cost of an overnight stay in a castle hotel, but they are not in the big cities. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

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Is there a good directory for these sorts of hostels?  I’m planning on going to Europe next summer and I would love the experience of staying an a castle hostel.

 Well, the German ones are on the hostel page, www.djh.de. I don’t know how it works in English because I always use the German version, but you need to look for the ones with "Burg" or "Schloss" in the title. I seem to remember just typing the word in a search form last time I was prospecting there.  Austria doesn’t have as many, but I’m planning on staying in some of them next year. There you have to go down the whole list of every hostel in the country to find the ones in castles. Some  also have their own web pages. Look at the trip accounts attached to my website for some links to ones I’ve stayed in. Warning: they tend to be popular and if you want to be sure of a bed, you need to reserve one in advance. I’ve found some of them full many months in advance. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

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I stayed in the castle in Bacharach about five years ago. It was great. Wonderful view, decent accomodations, and a plentiful breakfast. Since you’re backpacking, allow plenty of time for the walk up the hill, but you’re still better off than those who drive, because, not unlike the rest of Europe, there’s no place to park. Enjoy!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody I’m leaving for a backpacking adventure across Europe in a few days.  I’d love to stay one night in an old castle which has been converted to a hotel / hostel.  Does this exist? There’s one in Bacharach http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001710.html at the top of a hill http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/Pictures/germany/rhein/IM001760.html. Did a quick google search, and found this http://members.shaw.ca/guideforeurope/castlehostels.html which should give you plenty of choices. joan

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