Question:

FWIW, the O’Hare crash was attributed to American changing the suspect engine with a forklift, thereby putting undo stress on the thrust link mounting pins that attached the engine to the wing.

That’s right, but the big problem was not that the engine fell off–airliners can continue to fly even if an engine drops off.   The problem was that the hydraulic lines that control the flaps that make it possible to steer the aircraft were ripped out by the engine when it broke loose.  The aircraft tilted to one side and the pilots were unable to control it.   After this crash, the DC-10 (and others) were redesigned so that the hydraulic lines are placed toward the back of the wing away from the engine mountings, so that even if an engine falls off it can return to an airport.   Not only that, but there is increased "redundancy" steering systems nowadays, so that if one system fails, another system can be used for the same function.

Response:

The problem was that the hydraulic lines that control the flaps that make it possible to steer the aircraft were ripped out by the engine when it broke loose.  The aircraft tilted to one side and the pilots were unable to control it.  

Close, but not quite. It had nothing to do with the flaps. When the hydraulic lines were severed, some of the leading edge slats on the left wing side retracted.  This reduced the lift on that wing, and increased the speed where it would stall.  The crew didn’t know the slats had retracted, since with the loss of the engine, the aircraft’s electrical power was also lost, and neither the slat asymmetric warning nor the stick shaker stall warning sounded.   All the crew knew was that they had lost engine power, so they initiated an engine out procedure.  American Airline’s rules for engine out at the time required that the pilot set up for maximum rate of climb with two engines. This caused the aircraft to slow, since speed was traded for altitude gain.  When the airspeed dropped below a certain point, which was higher than the normal stall speed, the left wing stalled, and lost lift because of the lack of leading edge slats. This caused the aircraft to roll to the left, and no amount of aileron could counteract the roll. Had the crew maintained the airspeed they already had, rather than trading it off to gain altitude, the aircraft could have been saved. After this crash, the DC-10 (and others) were redesigned so that the hydraulic lines are placed toward the back of the wing away from the engine mountings, so that even if an engine falls off it can return to an airport.  

More importantly, the hydraulic controls on the leading edge slats were redesigned so they wouldn’t allow the slats to retract if they lost pressure.  Further, the electrical system was set up so the required alarms weren’t lost with the loss of the left engine. Not only that, but there is increased "redundancy" steering systems nowadays, so that if one system fails, another system can be used for the same function.

Exactly.

Response:

While public confidence was indeed shaken at the time of the accidents, mostly because of the extensive media coverage, the aircraft actually ended up with a safety record that was not that different from other commercial aircraft.

No kidding.  People rarely fear the 747, yet one crashed in 1990-1991 in China, and then another one crashed in 1992 into an Amsterdam apartment block.  In both instances TWO engines fell off.  I dare say two engines falling off is much worse than one engine falling off, yet a huge stink was not made over the 747.  The second one was an El Al cargo version, so less people were killed (mostly on the ground), so people did not pay as much attention, I suppose. Pete

Response:

Go to the database at www.airdisaster.com.  The date of the Turkish crash was March 03, 1974.  The American crash took place May 25, 1979. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year? Believe today is the anniversary date of the Turkish DC-10 crash. I flew that same DC-10 that crashed – if it was American Airlines out of O’Hare, just one month before it was lost on takeoff, and also believe that the 1974 crashes grounded the aircraft, and ended its sales. The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu, but don’t think MD ever sold another one after the O’Hare crash, public confidence in the aircraft’s safety was shaken. Besides, I always liked its twin, the L-10ll better. I flew on the aircraft probably 15 times after those crashes, and I remember it always was a smooth and comfortable and stable aircraft, but I always was psychologically nervous when aboard it – in fact, planning travel, I usually would go out of my way to book a route where a 727 of DC-8 flew instead of having to fly the DC-10, thing made me nervous after those crashes. What is the history of the crashes and the final chapter of the DC-10 aircraft? Thanx……Stan

Response:

Biman Bangladesh Airlines proudly flies them to various destinations from its base in Dhaka. The airline has a good safety record (never mind the service though!). Pictures: http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?cnsearch=47817/300&disti…

Response:

Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year?

The Chicago crash was in 1979. Believe today is the anniversary date of the Turkish DC-10 crash. I flew that same DC-10 that crashed – if it was American Airlines out of O’Hare, just one month before it was lost on takeoff, and also believe that the 1974 crashes grounded the aircraft, and ended its sales.

It is possible, but unlikely, that you flew the exact same aircraft. American Airlines owned lots of them by 1979, so it could have been any in their fleet. The crashes did not end the aircraft’s sales, as production continued until 1989.   The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu, but don’t think MD ever sold another one after the O’Hare crash, public confidence in the aircraft’s safety was shaken. Besides, I always liked its twin, the L-10ll better.

There are still many DC-10s in service as passenger carriers. Northwest, as an example, has about 20 of them that they still use on some international routes. While public confidence was indeed shaken at the time of the accidents, mostly because of the extensive media coverage, the aircraft actually ended up with a safety record that was not that different from other commercial aircraft. I flew on the aircraft probably 15 times after those crashes, and I remember it always was a smooth and comfortable and stable aircraft, but I always was psychologically nervous when aboard it – in fact, planning travel, I usually would go out of my way to book a route where a 727 of DC-8 flew instead of having to fly the DC-10, thing made me nervous after those crashes.

Which is the typical reaction to all the media focus.  The DC-10 actually ended up with about an average accident rate for aircraft of that era.  It has been reasonably good, if you just look at the events over the last 25 years. What is the history of the crashes and the final chapter of the DC-10 aircraft?

The final chapter has not been written, as there are many DC-10s still flying.

Response:

Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year?

The Chicago crash was in 1979, IIRC.

Response:

Thanx for the input everybody, always can get the right answer over here, I haven’t seen a DC-10 in awhile, except the freight hauler one FedEx uses out of Ft.Lauderdale-Hollywood. I was traveling cross-country on American a lot in the mid and late 1970’s to LA and San Fran, I do believe, however, that the DC-10 that crashed at Chicago-O’Hare, I flew on that craft to San Francisco just a month or so earlier. I also seem to remember they grounded the plane for a safety check for a short time which probably also contributed to a loss in public confidence in the thing. I had no particular bad experience ever on a DC-10 (wasn’t a nervous flyer), but after the crashes, everytime I got aboard one, if I couldn’t get the 727 or Delta’s DC-8, was just nervous, and remember coming into O’Hare from Las Vegas in the middle of a snowstorm, coming down blind after circling O’Hare for about 1/2 hour. Thing was solid and smooth, and you couldn’t see a darn thing in the fog outside until it broke through…….Stan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year? Believe today is the anniversary date of the Turkish DC-10 crash. I flew that same DC-10 that crashed – if it was American Airlines out of O’Hare, just one month before it was lost on takeoff, and also believe that the 1974 crashes grounded the aircraft, and ended its sales. The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu, but don’t think MD ever sold another one after the O’Hare crash, public confidence in the aircraft’s safety was shaken. Besides, I always liked its twin, the L-10ll better. I flew on the aircraft probably 15 times after those crashes, and I remember it always was a smooth and comfortable and stable aircraft, but I always was psychologically nervous when aboard it – in fact, planning travel, I usually would go out of my way to book a route where a 727 of DC-8 flew instead of having to fly the DC-10, thing made me nervous after those crashes. What is the history of the crashes and the final chapter of the DC-10 aircraft? Thanx……Stan

FWIW, the O’Hare crash was attributed to American changing the suspect engine with a forklift, thereby putting undo stress on the thrust link mounting pins that attached the engine to the wing.  The Turkish crash was a design issue if I recall correctly with the cargo doors.  And there were many more -10’s sold after both.

Response:

The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu

Northwest put me on one from San Francisco to Tokyo less than a year ago. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Response:

Does anybody have a quick update or link on the 1974 crashes of the DC-10’s at Chicago-O’Hare, when the engine sheared off – and the Turkish DC-10 at Orly in Paris the same year? Believe today is the anniversary date of the Turkish DC-10 crash. I flew that same DC-10 that crashed – if it was American Airlines out of O’Hare, just one month before it was lost on takeoff, and also believe that the 1974 crashes grounded the aircraft, and ended its sales. The craft is still in use as a freight hauler for FedEx, and I think as a West Coast hop over to Honolulu, but don’t think MD ever sold another one after the O’Hare crash, public confidence in the aircraft’s safety was shaken. Besides, I always liked its twin, the L-10ll better. I flew on the aircraft probably 15 times after those crashes, and I remember it always was a smooth and comfortable and stable aircraft, but I always was psychologically nervous when aboard it – in fact, planning travel, I usually would go out of my way to book a route where a 727 of DC-8 flew instead of having to fly the DC-10, thing made me nervous after those crashes. What is the history of the crashes and the final chapter of the DC-10 aircraft? Thanx……Stan

Response:

Question:

There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out.

Howie, Sammy is standing in the back yard looking through his telescope.  It has started to rain.  Oh no!  LOL Can’t you just picture it? Becca  <—–getting a kick out of it… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. It’s truly spectacular here in Northern New Jersey!  I’ve been following it since about 6:30 PM this evening. Ain’t Nature somethin’ ?  :-

Sure is, Karen. It’s really weird to see the crescent moving around the circumference of the moon.  Awesome!

Response:

There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out.

We’ve waited all day for this and now we have rain clouds here and can’t see a thing. ~ Patty

Response:

We’ve waited all day for this and now we have rain clouds here and can’t see a thing.

We had a really nice view until about twenty minutes ago. Got to see it go total. Some clouds have moved in. — Charles

Response:

It’s fabulous here in Ohio.  Perfect view near Columbus! — Christy Phil 4:13

Response:

It’s even weirder to think that it’s US making the shadow. June There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. It’s truly spectacular here in Northern New Jersey!  I’ve been following it since about 6:30 PM this evening. Ain’t Nature somethin’ ?  :-

Sure is, Karen. It’s really weird to see the crescent moving around the circumference of the moon.  Awesome!

Response:

The view from my apartment is spectacular. I face East and it really was an unbelievable sight. Joyce — 404 Days til the Amsterdam around South America and Antarctica – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howie, Sammy is standing in the back yard looking through his telescope.  It has started to rain.  Oh no!  LOL Can’t you just picture it? Becca  <—–getting a kick out of it… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

– "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." – The Talmud "People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid" – Kirkegarde "Software without support is hardware" – JR/1999

Response:

Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

It was pretty clear here in GA all day.  We were looking forward to seeing the Lunar Eclipse.  About 7:30, it began to rain.  SO, we didn’t see it. Bummer!  Maybe next time. Sandi

Response:

Becca, I CAN picture it! Howard didn’t mention that we were watching from INSIDE our house.         Eileen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howie, Sammy is standing in the back yard looking through his telescope.  It has started to rain.  Oh no!  LOL Can’t you just picture it? Becca  <—–getting a kick out of it… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

I had a glimpse of the moon at 4:00 a.m., after the ecslipse was over. It was so bright it looked like it was made of neon. Can anybody explain this to me?         Eileen

Response:

No… but from the Zenith the first night out this past summer, we went out to see Mars since it was so close at the time, and it was SO DARK and SO CLEAR that we could see the Milky Way from the front of the ship. –Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ? There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

Howard didn’t mention that we were watching from INSIDE our house.

It was too cold to stay out for more then a few minutes at a time. sue

Response:

I had a glimpse of the moon at 4:00 a.m., after the ecslipse was over. It was so bright it looked like it was made of neon. Can anybody explain this to me?

I can’t explain it, but I saw it at about 12/1am and it was VERY bright. Very pretty to see. sue

Response:

That first night, was the best weather we ever had on a cruise! Seeing Mars and the Milky Way was wonderful. Rich, on one of our earlier cruises, we saw a solar eclipse, but not a lunar eclipse. sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… but from the Zenith the first night out this past summer, we went out to see Mars since it was so close at the time, and it was SO DARK and SO CLEAR that we could see the Milky Way from the front of the ship. –Tom Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ? There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ?

I have cruised during a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse and meteor showers.  Eileen and Howard were on the same cruise with my husband and I, when we had the meteor showers in December.  I watched it on the balcony at 4:00am.  It was spectacular.     When these celestial events happen, I wish cruise ships had astronomers on board.  We could bring our telescopes and have star parties.  I guess we could do that with or without the astronomers. Why not. Becca  <—–wishes I had an itty bitty telescope to take with me… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

Becca, I CAN picture it!

Sammy was so excited, but the weather was not favorable.  We could not find the moon, much less focus on it.  He finally gave up and came in out of the rain.   From what I can tell, the lunar eclipse in May will not be visible to people in North America… unless we cruise the southern Caribbean.   Hey, that sounds good to me. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2004May04T.gif Becca  <—–anticipating the solar eclipse on 4/8/24… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

Zenith had an astronomer from the NY American Museum of Natural History Hayden Planetarium on it 2 years ago when we went to Bermuda. He gave talks up on deck late at night.  He never had a big crowd though… seems more people were interested in things like shows, gambling and drinking. –Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ? I have cruised during a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse and meteor showers.  Eileen and Howard were on the same cruise with my husband and I, when we had the meteor showers in December.  I watched it on the balcony at 4:00am.  It was spectacular. When these celestial events happen, I wish cruise ships had astronomers on board.  We could bring our telescopes and have star parties.  I guess we could do that with or without the astronomers. Why not. Becca  <—–wishes I had an itty bitty telescope to take with me… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ? I have cruised during a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse and meteor showers.  Eileen and Howard were on the same cruise with my husband and I, when we had the meteor showers in December.  I watched it on the balcony at 4:00am.  It was spectacular.

It sure was spectacular, Becca.  Hope to catch another one like that at sea. When these celestial events happen, I wish cruise ships had astronomers on board.  We could bring our telescopes and have star parties.  I guess we could do that with or without the astronomers. Why not.

And I wish they would turn out the damn lights. Howard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Becca  <—–wishes I had an itty bitty telescope to take with me… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

I love to gamble and I enjoy shows – but I’d MUCH rather star-gaze, and I’d enjoy a guided tour of the skies in real-time by an astronomer! It would be such an inexpensive thing for a cruiseline to give their guests, too – I have no doubt they could find an astronomer to do it for the price of a free cabin!         Eileen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zenith had an astronomer from the NY American Museum of Natural History Hayden Planetarium on it 2 years ago when we went to Bermuda. He gave talks up on deck late at night.  He never had a big crowd though… seems more people were interested in things like shows, gambling and drinking.

Response:

Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ?

I haven’t, but we WERE on a cruise that passed by an erupting volcano in the Med, late at night… Talk about a sight to be seen! Pam http://www.cruisesinc.com/plome 866-LV2CRUZ (582-2789)

Response:

For those who lived in NY and surrounding boroughs in the 50s ever take a blanket and go with friends. up on the roof to watch the stars. Never caught a falling  star though we saw many the roof. S’nd I

Response:

For those who lived in NY and surrounding boroughs in the 50s ever take a blanket and go with friends. up on the roof to watch the stars. Never caught a falling  star though we saw many the roof. S’nd I

Many times as a kid in the 50’s and a teen in the 60’s. Howard

Response:

There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out.

Howie, Sammy is standing in the back yard looking through his telescope.  It has started to rain.  Oh no!  LOL Can’t you just picture it? Becca  <—–getting a kick out of it… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. It’s truly spectacular here in Northern New Jersey!  I’ve been following it since about 6:30 PM this evening. Ain’t Nature somethin’ ?  :-

Sure is, Karen. It’s really weird to see the crescent moving around the circumference of the moon.  Awesome!

Response:

There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out.

We’ve waited all day for this and now we have rain clouds here and can’t see a thing. ~ Patty

Response:

We’ve waited all day for this and now we have rain clouds here and can’t see a thing.

We had a really nice view until about twenty minutes ago. Got to see it go total. Some clouds have moved in. — Charles

Response:

It’s fabulous here in Ohio.  Perfect view near Columbus! — Christy Phil 4:13

Response:

It’s even weirder to think that it’s US making the shadow. June There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. It’s truly spectacular here in Northern New Jersey!  I’ve been following it since about 6:30 PM this evening. Ain’t Nature somethin’ ?  :-

Sure is, Karen. It’s really weird to see the crescent moving around the circumference of the moon.  Awesome!

Response:

The view from my apartment is spectacular. I face East and it really was an unbelievable sight. Joyce — 404 Days til the Amsterdam around South America and Antarctica – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howie, Sammy is standing in the back yard looking through his telescope.  It has started to rain.  Oh no!  LOL Can’t you just picture it? Becca  <—–getting a kick out of it… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

– "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." – The Talmud "People demand the freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid" – Kirkegarde "Software without support is hardware" – JR/1999

Response:

Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

It was pretty clear here in GA all day.  We were looking forward to seeing the Lunar Eclipse.  About 7:30, it began to rain.  SO, we didn’t see it. Bummer!  Maybe next time. Sandi

Response:

Becca, I CAN picture it! Howard didn’t mention that we were watching from INSIDE our house.         Eileen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howie, Sammy is standing in the back yard looking through his telescope.  It has started to rain.  Oh no!  LOL Can’t you just picture it? Becca  <—–getting a kick out of it… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

I had a glimpse of the moon at 4:00 a.m., after the ecslipse was over. It was so bright it looked like it was made of neon. Can anybody explain this to me?         Eileen

Response:

No… but from the Zenith the first night out this past summer, we went out to see Mars since it was so close at the time, and it was SO DARK and SO CLEAR that we could see the Milky Way from the front of the ship. –Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ? There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

Howard didn’t mention that we were watching from INSIDE our house.

It was too cold to stay out for more then a few minutes at a time. sue

Response:

I had a glimpse of the moon at 4:00 a.m., after the ecslipse was over. It was so bright it looked like it was made of neon. Can anybody explain this to me?

I can’t explain it, but I saw it at about 12/1am and it was VERY bright. Very pretty to see. sue

Response:

That first night, was the best weather we ever had on a cruise! Seeing Mars and the Milky Way was wonderful. Rich, on one of our earlier cruises, we saw a solar eclipse, but not a lunar eclipse. sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… but from the Zenith the first night out this past summer, we went out to see Mars since it was so close at the time, and it was SO DARK and SO CLEAR that we could see the Milky Way from the front of the ship. –Tom Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ? There is a lunar eclipse in process right now.  Everyone, get your asses up and out. Howard

Response:

Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ?

I have cruised during a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse and meteor showers.  Eileen and Howard were on the same cruise with my husband and I, when we had the meteor showers in December.  I watched it on the balcony at 4:00am.  It was spectacular.     When these celestial events happen, I wish cruise ships had astronomers on board.  We could bring our telescopes and have star parties.  I guess we could do that with or without the astronomers. Why not. Becca  <—–wishes I had an itty bitty telescope to take with me… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

Becca, I CAN picture it!

Sammy was so excited, but the weather was not favorable.  We could not find the moon, much less focus on it.  He finally gave up and came in out of the rain.   From what I can tell, the lunar eclipse in May will not be visible to people in North America… unless we cruise the southern Caribbean.   Hey, that sounds good to me. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2004May04T.gif Becca  <—–anticipating the solar eclipse on 4/8/24… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

Zenith had an astronomer from the NY American Museum of Natural History Hayden Planetarium on it 2 years ago when we went to Bermuda. He gave talks up on deck late at night.  He never had a big crowd though… seems more people were interested in things like shows, gambling and drinking. –Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ? I have cruised during a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse and meteor showers.  Eileen and Howard were on the same cruise with my husband and I, when we had the meteor showers in December.  I watched it on the balcony at 4:00am.  It was spectacular. When these celestial events happen, I wish cruise ships had astronomers on board.  We could bring our telescopes and have star parties.  I guess we could do that with or without the astronomers. Why not. Becca  <—–wishes I had an itty bitty telescope to take with me… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ? I have cruised during a solar eclipse, a lunar eclipse and meteor showers.  Eileen and Howard were on the same cruise with my husband and I, when we had the meteor showers in December.  I watched it on the balcony at 4:00am.  It was spectacular.

It sure was spectacular, Becca.  Hope to catch another one like that at sea. When these celestial events happen, I wish cruise ships had astronomers on board.  We could bring our telescopes and have star parties.  I guess we could do that with or without the astronomers. Why not.

And I wish they would turn out the damn lights. Howard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Becca  <—–wishes I had an itty bitty telescope to take with me… GGC http://www.ggc2004.com/ Norwegian Dawn http://www.cruisemaster.com/dawn.htm Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/

Response:

I love to gamble and I enjoy shows – but I’d MUCH rather star-gaze, and I’d enjoy a guided tour of the skies in real-time by an astronomer! It would be such an inexpensive thing for a cruiseline to give their guests, too – I have no doubt they could find an astronomer to do it for the price of a free cabin!         Eileen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zenith had an astronomer from the NY American Museum of Natural History Hayden Planetarium on it 2 years ago when we went to Bermuda. He gave talks up on deck late at night.  He never had a big crowd though… seems more people were interested in things like shows, gambling and drinking.

Response:

Has anyone been on a cruise during a lunar eclipse ?

I haven’t, but we WERE on a cruise that passed by an erupting volcano in the Med, late at night… Talk about a sight to be seen! Pam http://www.cruisesinc.com/plome 866-LV2CRUZ (582-2789)

Response:

For those who lived in NY and surrounding boroughs in the 50s ever take a blanket and go with friends. up on the roof to watch the stars. Never caught a falling  star though we saw many the roof. S’nd I

Response:

For those who lived in NY and surrounding boroughs in the 50s ever take a blanket and go with friends. up on the roof to watch the stars. Never caught a falling  star though we saw many the roof. S’nd I

Many times as a kid in the 50’s and a teen in the 60’s. Howard

Response:

Question:

I can’t wait til tonight when I have time to read this – with a cuddly Pug in my arms, a large, agressive (well, assertive… okay, a bit pushy), German Shepherd at my feet, and the every light in the house on.  I’m never going to forgive you if the ending isn’t as creepy as the middle (I skimmed forward a bit <g).

Well, how was it? Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat.

Response:

Very cool.  Well written.  Predictable ending – but that’s a good thing when you’re reading a creepy "campfire" type story.  Thanks.  :-) Diane M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t wait til tonight when I have time to read this – with a cuddly Pug in my arms, a large, agressive (well, assertive… okay, a bit pushy), German Shepherd at my feet, and the every light in the house on.  I’m never going to forgive you if the ending isn’t as creepy as the middle (I skimmed forward a bit <g). Well, how was it? Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat.

Response:

I can’t wait til tonight when I have time to read this – with a cuddly Pug in my arms, a large, agressive (well, assertive… okay, a bit pushy), German Shepherd at my feet, and the every light in the house on.  I’m never going to forgive you if the ending isn’t as creepy as the middle (I skimmed forward a bit <g). Diane M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking of doing this, but didn’t have time today.  They are fun stories to tell around a campfire or to distract quitters, but I prefer to live in a world in which they are urban legends. There is way too much real scariness happening out there. http://www.holyshiite.com/caver/ Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat.

Response:

I was thinking of doing this, but didn’t have time today.  They are fun stories to tell around a campfire or to distract quitters, but I prefer to live in a world in which they are urban legends. There is way too much real scariness happening out there.

http://www.holyshiite.com/caver/ Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat.

Response:

All ULs (Urban Legends), I’m afraid.  

Thank God for that….we have enough true horror stories in our world….. Thanks, mmm….. Sally – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Creepy (Not so) True Stories couple were trying to smuggle into the States. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/deadbaby.htm In the morning, she finds the dog hung in the shower. Where the dog slept, she picks up a note which reads "Humans can lick too." http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lighton.htm So the husband went over to her backseat, opened the door, and there was a deranged man sitting on the floor with a  knife in his hand. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/backseat.htm The murdered girl’s throat had been slit, and she had bled to death in the hallway while clawing at the door. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/roommate.htm Berlin http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lastone.htm I agree, though, they’re creepy stories. mmm VOF

Response:

I was thinking of doing this, but didn’t have time today.  They are fun stories to tell around a campfire or to distract quitters, but I prefer to live in a world in which they are urban legends. There is way too much real scariness happening out there. Diane M. … particularly creeped out by the one with the dog, even if I do know it’s not true.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All ULs (Urban Legends), I’m afraid. Creepy (Not so) True Stories couple were trying to smuggle into the States. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/deadbaby.htm In the morning, she finds the dog hung in the shower. Where the dog slept, she picks up a note which reads "Humans can lick too." http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lighton.htm So the husband went over to her backseat, opened the door, and there was a deranged man sitting on the floor with a  knife in his hand. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/backseat.htm The murdered girl’s throat had been slit, and she had bled to death in the hallway while clawing at the door. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/roommate.htm Berlin http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lastone.htm I agree, though, they’re creepy stories. mmm VOF

Response:

All ULs (Urban Legends), I’m afraid.   Creepy (Not so) True Stories couple were trying to smuggle into the States.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/deadbaby.htm In the morning, she finds the dog hung in the shower. Where the dog slept, she picks up a note which reads "Humans can lick too."

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lighton.htm So the husband went over to her backseat, opened the door, and there was a deranged man sitting on the floor with a  knife in his hand.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/backseat.htm The murdered girl’s throat had been slit, and she had bled to death in the hallway while clawing at the door.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/roommate.htm Berlin

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lastone.htm I agree, though, they’re creepy stories. mmm VOF

Response:

Creepy True Stories An air hostess, as she passed along the aisle of the plane on the transatlantic flight from Amsterdam to New York noticed that the baby, nestled between the couple who were asleep, didn’t look very well in fact it looked extremely ill. Not wanting to disturb anyone she gently lifted up the baby and took it back to her station. Feeling the baby’s forehead, she found it was cold and with a sudden panic she realized that the infant was dead. Calling upon a doctor she knew to be on board, he examined the baby and confirmed that, not only was it dead, but it was embalmed. The child’s body had been hollowed out and it was full of the drugs that the couple were trying to smuggle into the States. A young lady is alone in her apartment. She goes to bed with her dog on the floor beside her. In the middle of the night, she is woken up by a strange sound. She is alarmed, but reaches down to the dog, who licks her hand. She is reassured and goes back to sleep. In the morning, she finds the dog hung in the shower. Where the dog slept, she picks up a note which reads "Humans can lick too." A woman living in the city {Salt Lake} was visiting some friends in Ogden. When she got into her car in front of this friend’s house, she noticed that a car started up right behind her car. It was about 2:00 in the morning, and there weren’t any other cars on the road. After she had driven to the highway, she began to think that this car was following her. Some of the time he would drive up real close to her car, but he wouldn’t ever pass. She was really scared to death and kept speeding to try to get away from him. When she got to Salt Lake, she started running stop lights to get away from him, but he would run right through them too. So when she got to her driveway she pulled in really fast, and this guy pulled in right behind her. She just laid on the horn, and her husband came running out. Just then, the guy jumped out of the car, and her husband ran over and said, "What the hell’s going’ on here?" So he grabbed the guy, and his wife said, "This man’s  followed me all the way from Ogden." The man said, "I followed your wife because I was going to work, and as got into my car, I noticed when I turned my lights on, a man’s head bob down in her back seat." So the husband went over to her backseat, opened the door, and there was a deranged man sitting on the floor with a  knife in his hand. Two roommates remain at their deserted college dormitory over a holiday break. One of the girls goes out on a date that evening, and the other one turns in and goes to bed before her roommate returns. Later that night the sleeping girl is awakened by gurgling and scratching noises coming from outside the hallway door. Frightened, she locks the door and cowers inside the room until morning. When the girl finally opens the door and ventures outside, she discovers the bloody corpse of her roommate in the hallway. The murdered girl’s throat had been slit, and she had bled to death in the hallway while clawing at the door. In Berlin, after World War II, money was short, supplies were tight, and it seemed like everyone was hungry. At that time, people were telling the tale of a young woman who saw a blind man picking his way through a crowd. The two started to talk. The man asked her for a favour: could she deliver the letter to the address on the envelope? Well, it was on her way home, so she agreed. She started out to deliver the message, when she turned around to see if there was anything else the blind man needed. But she spotted him hurrying through the crowd without his smoked glasses or white cane. She went to the police, who raided the address on the envelope, where they found heaps of human flesh for sale. And what was in the envelope? A note saying   "This is the last one I am sending you today."

Response:

Creepy True Stories An air hostess, as she passed along the aisle of the plane on the transatlantic flight from Amsterdam to New York noticed that the baby, nestled between the couple who were asleep, didn’t look very well in fact it looked extremely ill. Not wanting to disturb anyone she gently lifted up the baby and took it back to her station. Feeling the baby’s forehead, she found it was cold and with a sudden panic she realized that the infant was dead. Calling upon a doctor she knew to be on board, he examined the baby and confirmed that, not only was it dead, but it was embalmed. The child’s body had been hollowed out and it was full of the drugs that the couple were trying to smuggle into the States. A young lady is alone in her apartment. She goes to bed with her dog on the floor beside her. In the middle of the night, she is woken up by a strange sound. She is alarmed, but reaches down to the dog, who licks her hand. She is reassured and goes back to sleep. In the morning, she finds the dog hung in the shower. Where the dog slept, she picks up a note which reads "Humans can lick too." A woman living in the city {Salt Lake} was visiting some friends in Ogden. When she got into her car in front of this friend’s house, she noticed that a car started up right behind her car. It was about 2:00 in the morning, and there weren’t any other cars on the road. After she had driven to the highway, she began to think that this car was following her. Some of the time he would drive up real close to her car, but he wouldn’t ever pass. She was really scared to death and kept speeding to try to get away from him. When she got to Salt Lake, she started running stop lights to get away from him, but he would run right through them too. So when she got to her driveway she pulled in really fast, and this guy pulled in right behind her. She just laid on the horn, and her husband came running out. Just then, the guy jumped out of the car, and her husband ran over and said, "What the hell’s going’ on here?" So he grabbed the guy, and his wife said, "This man’s  followed me all the way from Ogden." The man said, "I followed your wife because I was going to work, and as got into my car, I noticed when I turned my lights on, a man’s head bob down in her back seat." So the husband went over to her backseat, opened the door, and there was a deranged man sitting on the floor with a  knife in his hand. Two roommates remain at their deserted college dormitory over a holiday break. One of the girls goes out on a date that evening, and the other one turns in and goes to bed before her roommate returns. Later that night the sleeping girl is awakened by gurgling and scratching noises coming from outside the hallway door. Frightened, she locks the door and cowers inside the room until morning. When the girl finally opens the door and ventures outside, she discovers the bloody corpse of her roommate in the hallway. The murdered girl’s throat had been slit, and she had bled to death in the hallway while clawing at the door. In Berlin, after World War II, money was short, supplies were tight, and it seemed like everyone was hungry. At that time, people were telling the tale of a young woman who saw a blind man picking his way through a crowd. The two started to talk. The man asked her for a favour: could she deliver the letter to the address on the envelope? Well, it was on her way home, so she agreed. She started out to deliver the message, when she turned around to see if there was anything else the blind man needed. But she spotted him hurrying through the crowd without his smoked glasses or white cane. She went to the police, who raided the address on the envelope, where they found heaps of human flesh for sale. And what was in the envelope? A note saying   "This is the last one I am sending you today."

Response:

All ULs (Urban Legends), I’m afraid.   Creepy (Not so) True Stories couple were trying to smuggle into the States.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/deadbaby.htm In the morning, she finds the dog hung in the shower. Where the dog slept, she picks up a note which reads "Humans can lick too."

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lighton.htm So the husband went over to her backseat, opened the door, and there was a deranged man sitting on the floor with a  knife in his hand.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/backseat.htm The murdered girl’s throat had been slit, and she had bled to death in the hallway while clawing at the door.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/roommate.htm Berlin

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lastone.htm I agree, though, they’re creepy stories. mmm VOF

Response:

I was thinking of doing this, but didn’t have time today.  They are fun stories to tell around a campfire or to distract quitters, but I prefer to live in a world in which they are urban legends. There is way too much real scariness happening out there. Diane M. … particularly creeped out by the one with the dog, even if I do know it’s not true.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All ULs (Urban Legends), I’m afraid. Creepy (Not so) True Stories couple were trying to smuggle into the States. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/deadbaby.htm In the morning, she finds the dog hung in the shower. Where the dog slept, she picks up a note which reads "Humans can lick too." http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lighton.htm So the husband went over to her backseat, opened the door, and there was a deranged man sitting on the floor with a  knife in his hand. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/backseat.htm The murdered girl’s throat had been slit, and she had bled to death in the hallway while clawing at the door. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/roommate.htm Berlin http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lastone.htm I agree, though, they’re creepy stories. mmm VOF

Response:

All ULs (Urban Legends), I’m afraid.  

Thank God for that….we have enough true horror stories in our world….. Thanks, mmm….. Sally – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Creepy (Not so) True Stories couple were trying to smuggle into the States. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/deadbaby.htm In the morning, she finds the dog hung in the shower. Where the dog slept, she picks up a note which reads "Humans can lick too." http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lighton.htm So the husband went over to her backseat, opened the door, and there was a deranged man sitting on the floor with a  knife in his hand. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/backseat.htm The murdered girl’s throat had been slit, and she had bled to death in the hallway while clawing at the door. http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/roommate.htm Berlin http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/lastone.htm I agree, though, they’re creepy stories. mmm VOF

Response:

I was thinking of doing this, but didn’t have time today.  They are fun stories to tell around a campfire or to distract quitters, but I prefer to live in a world in which they are urban legends. There is way too much real scariness happening out there.

http://www.holyshiite.com/caver/ Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat.

Response:

I can’t wait til tonight when I have time to read this – with a cuddly Pug in my arms, a large, agressive (well, assertive… okay, a bit pushy), German Shepherd at my feet, and the every light in the house on.  I’m never going to forgive you if the ending isn’t as creepy as the middle (I skimmed forward a bit <g). Diane M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking of doing this, but didn’t have time today.  They are fun stories to tell around a campfire or to distract quitters, but I prefer to live in a world in which they are urban legends. There is way too much real scariness happening out there. http://www.holyshiite.com/caver/ Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat.

Response:

I can’t wait til tonight when I have time to read this – with a cuddly Pug in my arms, a large, agressive (well, assertive… okay, a bit pushy), German Shepherd at my feet, and the every light in the house on.  I’m never going to forgive you if the ending isn’t as creepy as the middle (I skimmed forward a bit <g).

Well, how was it? Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat.

Response:

Very cool.  Well written.  Predictable ending – but that’s a good thing when you’re reading a creepy "campfire" type story.  Thanks.  :-) Diane M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t wait til tonight when I have time to read this – with a cuddly Pug in my arms, a large, agressive (well, assertive… okay, a bit pushy), German Shepherd at my feet, and the every light in the house on.  I’m never going to forgive you if the ending isn’t as creepy as the middle (I skimmed forward a bit <g). Well, how was it? Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat.

Response:

Question:

If you go to Warnemunde, there is a ferry to Rostok, a lot more interesting than taking the train, and not much more expensive. Ferry is picked up just next to where the cruise ships dock.

That sounds like fun.  But even better is Schwerin.  I did this itinerary earlier this year and we decided to hop the train to Schwerinn, and it was the best decision of the cruise.  This is one FABULOUS tourist stop and a beautiful town with a Disneyland-fantasy castle. In Tallin, walk outside the dock (300 yds) to negotiate for a taxi. There is some pecking order, and you will be charged a much higher rate for any taxi taken within the dock. You can walk into the old town from the ship.

I don’t understand.  Celebrity provides free continuous shuttle service from the dock to the old town. I second the idea of a driver and getting your own visas in St. Petersburg. Unfortunately this has to be arranged prior to arrival in St. Petersburg. There was some mention of a 72 hour transit visa, did this ever happen?.

No, not yet.  You still either have to get a visa (major pain in the neck), or else use an excursion service such as the cruise line or Red October. "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."   – Abraham Lincoln

Response:

If you go to Warnemunde, there is a ferry to Rostok, a lot more interesting than taking the train, and not much more expensive. Ferry is picked up just next to where the cruise ships dock. In Stockholm the hop-on/hop-off bus stopped by the cruise ship. This was the same in Copenhagen, and a short walk in Helsinki. In Tallin, walk outside the dock (300 yds) to negotiate for a taxi. There is some pecking order, and you will be charged a much higher rate for any taxi taken within the dock. You can walk into the old town from the ship. I second the idea of a driver and getting your own visas in St. Petersburg. Unfortunately this has to be arranged prior to arrival in St. Petersburg. There was some mention of a 72 hour transit visa, did this ever happen?. –mikeb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re right. Gdansk beats the snots out of Gdynia as a place to visit as a tourist. A pity that that is not the port of call. – nopcbs We traveled on the Celebrity’s Constellation for a two-week tour through the Baltic starting on July 5, 2003.  We had a wonderful time.  The ship was great.  We enjoyed the food and atmosphere.  We did not attend very much of the entertainment, so I can’t say much about it. The acapella singing group, Lighthouse, was wonderful.  The only shows we saw were the Broadway song and dance shows, which were fine.  The service was very good.  The room steward, Oliver, and the waiter, Marius, took very good care of us. We did almost all of the ports on our own.  We had a great time.  If you want to do the ports on your own, you must do a lot of research and have good guidebooks.  Don’t count on the ship to provide any information to help you tour.  Take a good guidebook and write ahead or check on the Internet for information on the ports.  We used Rick Steve’s Scandinavian book and website.  We also used Cruisemates website. Celebrity provided a free shuttle in almost every port.  When they did not, it was because the sights were too far for a shuttle or they were within walking distance.  Gdynia and Warnemunde were the only ports without shuttles.  We did not do a lot of shopping anywhere.  We used ATM’s in every port except St. Petersburg, where the vendors all took dollars. We purchased our air from the cruise line.  We flew United and SAS over and British Airways back.  SAS was much nicer than British Airways.  We got into Stockholm a couple of days early and stayed over in London a couple of days after.  We did not stay in the cruise line hotels.  English was spoken everywhere we went.  We had no problem communicating. We started from Stockholm.  We boarded on Saturday but the ship didn’t leave until Sunday.  Unfortunately, the shuttles stopped at 5:00 so to go into town on Saturday evening you had to take a taxi.  We were docked a long way from town, so you really couldn’t walk there.  The tourist information center in Stockholm was in a temporary location, so we had a little trouble finding it.  We ended up at the visitor bureau at the train station.  We bought the Stockholm card and then took the hop on bus tour.  Both worked very well for us.  We saw the Vasa museum, the Nordic museum, Skansen, the Royal Palace, and walked through Gamla Stan.  I liked Skansen best.  The cruise out through the archipelago is beautiful. The next stop was Riga, Latvia.  It was the first time Celebrity had stopped there.  The local bus company provided maps when we got off the bus.  We chanced into a wreath laying ceremony at their Freedom Monument.  I believe it was the 10-year anniversary of their legislature.  We also walked around the town.  We went to their market, which was amazing.  It is in the old zeppelin hangers and there are stands that sell everything from fish, meat, vegetables, baked goods, to canned goods.  Not many tourists found it, but it was worth the walk.  I bought some amber jewelry.  No, I haven’t checked it make sure it’s real.  It’s pretty & I like it.  We really enjoyed Riga. It was clean and vibrant.  There was lots of building and renovation going on. Next stop was Helsinki.  It was more touristy.  They also have a market, but it is aimed at least partially at tourists.  There were arts and crafts, food, and produce.  We bought some wonderful strawberries.  Some of the tourist items could be bought at Stockman’s Department store for less.  Stockman’s has a nice souvenir section. We did a walking tour of some of the historical sights. We spent the next two days in St. Petersburg.  This is the one port where we took ship excursions.  We did not have visas.  We took a bus overview of the city, a tour of the gardens at Peterhof, a night cruise of the canals, and a tour of the outlying palaces.  They were all fine, except the boat tour, which did not go well.  St. Petersburg is a very interesting city.  Some of the buildings have been renovated and are beautiful.  Others are very dilapidated.  There was not much building going on.  Lots of street vendors at every stop sold the same souvenirs.  The ship sold some of the same things after we left St. Petersburg.  I would think about hiring a guide and car, if I came again.  It doesn’t seem like a very easy city to do on your own. We then went to Tallinn, Estonia, a medieval city.  We did a walking tour around the historical sights.  The market here is definitely touristy.  It looks a lot like a Renaissance Festival-the vendors are even in costume.  There are some interesting galleries, if you get off the main streets. The next day was at sea.  We needed the break.  We did go to the wine tasting for the Captain’s Club Members, which was fun, and to the formal tea. We docked in Gdynia, Poland for tours into Gdansk.  We were there on a weekend and the local people were out for their holidays.  There is an amusement park and you can walk into town.  We happened on a very moving memorial plaque for Sept. 11.  The market here was touristy, but for the Polish tourists.  It looked a little like Panama City, FL. We walked into town, but we didn’t have any information on what we were seeing.   Try the waffles with cherries and cream!  There’s not a whole lot to see in Gdynia.  I would make the effort to get into Gdansk. We docked in Warnemunde for tours to Rostock.  The ship docked right at the train station so there weren’t any shuttles.  We took the train into Rostock.  It was very easy to do.  Rostock is another medieval city.  We walked around and saw the historical sights.  The market here mostly sold food.  We had a great jelly donut (Berliner).  We also had some very good food at a local restaurant.  Warnemunde is a beach resort.  The beach is right outside of town and was packed. There are lots of shops and restaurants. We had two days in Copenhagen.  The shuttle took us right into downtown.  We did Rick Steve’s walking tour.  The shuttle stopped at 5:00, so if you want to go into town in the evening you need to take a cab or buy the ship excursion to Tivoli, which is basically just a shuttle.  We did walk back from town, but it was a long walk.  The ship docked near the Little Mermaid.  We had smorrebrod at Hviids Viinstube.  The archaeological museum of the foundations of the castle was interesting.  We also went to the National Museum.  The next day we went to Christianshaven and Rosenborg Castle.  We had some great pastry.  After leaving port we saw a tall ship in full sail. Our last port was Oslo, Norway.  The fjords are beautiful.  We took the ferry over to the Viking Ship Museum and the Norwegian Folk Museum, which were both very interesting.  In the afternoon we did a walking tour through the historical parts of town.  The ship docked right next to an old fort. We had another day at sea and then docked in Dover.  Disembarkation went very well.  We used the ship transfer to Victoria bus station and walked to our B & B from there. We had a great time.  Let me know if I can answer any questions.

Response:

We just returned Sunday night from the Grandeur of the Seas Baltic cruise. We did get visas for St.Petersburg and it wasn’t a pain in the neck! We were very, very happy to have the visas and had an easy time touring on our own for 10 hours the first day in port. We had Pallidium tour company in St.Petersburg give us free visa support. It took 2 weeks to get our visas. We had them pick us up at the ship the first day and did a city tour and then a trip to Peterhof. We arrived back to the city at 1:30 and were dropped off at the Hermitage. We had bought tickets ahead of time on line and didn’t have to wait in any line to get in. We visited the Hermitage on our own and had as much time as we wanted there. It was lunch time, between tours so it wasn’t crowded at all. We ate lunch that I had brought from the ship in a small garden right outside a door from the Hermitage. Wonderful. We then walked to St.Isaccs at toured it, again no line to get in. We shopped at the vendor market outside the cathedral and bought wonderful hand painted nesting dolls for $25 a set. They were selling for $60 a set in the shops.We walked around the city a bit then walked to the Moya canal where we got an hour canal cruise for $7 a person. It was getting cool and they gave everyone a wool blanket to keep warm! The cruise went down several small canals as well as the Neva. The tour was in Russian by a woman in our boat. The other passengers had a great time, laughing at alot of her comments!! We then cleaned up at the Astoria hotel and walked to a Palace for a Folkdance show. No one from our ship attended this show, but there were people from a Moscow to St.Petersburg river cruise there. It was the best Folkdance show we’ve ever seen with many costume changes and lots of humor. We had a break with champange, vodka and desserts and fruit. The tickets were $20 each. Our driver from Pallidium picked us up at ll p.m. to drive us back to the ship. This was a smart idea because the streets were deserted at this hour. The next day we took the free port bus to the main gate of the port. It’s a 5 minute ride. We never had any problem with the customs officals. They stamped our passport each morning and sent us on our way. I even got a smile out of the customs official because my passport picture looks nothing like I do today! We met a licensed guide, Olga Steponava, and she helped us tour the city using the metro and mini buses. We walked from the port gate to the street were she flagged down a passing mini bus. For .25 each we drove to the metro and took it to the Indoor Market. Some of the vendors had great fun with us there. I don’t think they see many Americans. We went to the Monestary, Cemetaries, walked Nev. Pros. took metro again to Peter and Paul Fortress, mini bus to Church on Spilled Blood and much more. We had a great time and never felt uncomfortable. It was a treat seeing the city from this viewpoint instead of from a tour bus. You can tour St.Petersburg with Visas if you want to. So many tried to discourage us, but it was a special experience I’d love to do again. Lorrie

Response:

Rostock:  Schwerin does sound great.  It was our first trip to Germany so we weren’t quite adventurous enough to do that. Tallin:  The Celebrity shuttle took us right into town so there was no need for a taxi.  Some people were walking. St. Petersburg:  The visa situation is the same:  you have to get it ahead of time or take an organized excursion. Thanks to everyone for their responses.  I’m glad I took the trouble to post my review. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you go to Warnemunde, there is a ferry to Rostok, a lot more interesting than taking the train, and not much more expensive. Ferry is picked up just next to where the cruise ships dock. That sounds like fun.  But even better is Schwerin.  I did this itinerary earlier this year and we decided to hop the train to Schwerinn, and it was the best decision of the cruise.  This is one FABULOUS tourist stop and a beautiful town with a Disneyland-fantasy castle. In Tallin, walk outside the dock (300 yds) to negotiate for a taxi. There is some pecking order, and you will be charged a much higher rate for any taxi taken within the dock. You can walk into the old town from the ship. I don’t understand.  Celebrity provides free continuous shuttle service from the dock to the old town. I second the idea of a driver and getting your own visas in St. Petersburg. Unfortunately this has to be arranged prior to arrival in St. Petersburg. There was some mention of a 72 hour transit visa, did this ever happen?. No, not yet.  You still either have to get a visa (major pain in the neck), or else use an excursion service such as the cruise line or Red October. "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea.  If this is tea, please bring me some coffee."   – Abraham Lincoln

Response:

I enjoyed reading your report immensely!  We’ve done several of the cities on your cruise by sea, but not by cruise ship.  I loved the market in Riga too!  I still have a picture of a pig head (severed, of course) hanging on a metal hook! Jeff

Response:

When we went Princess had stops in Gydnia with a bus trip to Gdansk (the guide made the driver swing by her apartment to show us her flowers out front). The trip was alternating with one that stopped in Germany.  Gdansk was one of those cities well worth going back to.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Answered inline: We traveled on the Celebrity’s Constellation for a two-week tour through the Baltic starting on July 5, 2003.  We had a wonderful time. Jo Anne, Thank you for your very interesting post. I was not aware that Celebrity had a ship visting Gydnia, Poland. So many cruises that go to St. Petersberg do not include a Polish port. You can be pretty certain that the amber that you purchased in Latvia is genuine as that is one of the areas it comes from. I purchased some amber rings and pins while in Poland while on a land trip.  I have seen it sold locally and it was for a much higher price than I paid. What I was wearing was admired by the shop owner who flew to Poland to get her jewelry. It sounds like a pretty port intensive itinerary, but all the ports were very interesting to visit, I imagine. We docked in Gdynia, Poland for tours into Gdansk.  We were there on a weekend and the local people were out for their holidays.  There is an amusement park and you can walk into town.  We happened on a very moving memorial plaque for Sept. 11. When 9-11 occurred, I got e-mails from several Poles who expressed their sorrow. That is one country that genuinely likes Americans and I found it evident when we spent two weeks there. The market here was touristy, but for the Polish tourists. This probably where I could find a blouse for the emboidered and beaded vest that I bought in Krakow! We walked into town, but we didn’t have any information on what we were seeing.   Try the waffles with cherries and cream!  There’s not a whole lot to see in Gdynia.  I would make the effort to get into Gdansk. Were there excusions to Gdansk? We had two days in Copenhagen.  The shuttle took us right into downtown.  We did Rick Steve’s walking tour. This is one city I would love to visit along with Amsterdam. We had another day at sea and then docked in Dover.  Disembarkation went very well.  We used the ship transfer to Victoria bus station and walked to our B & B from there. Loved your itinerary and hope one day we will be able to do it~~So many places to go and so little time! Would you mind sharing the name of your B&B and how you liked it? Thanks! –Jean

Response:

Thanks, Mike, Guess I better visit the Princess site, too! –Jean

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When we went Princess had stops in Gydnia with a bus trip to Gdansk (the guide made the driver swing by her apartment to show us her flowers out front). The trip was alternating with one that stopped in Germany.  Gdansk was one of those cities well worth going back to.

Response:

You’re right. Gdansk beats the snots out of Gdynia as a place to visit as a tourist. A pity that that is not the port of call. – nopcbs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We traveled on the Celebrity’s Constellation for a two-week tour through the Baltic starting on July 5, 2003.  We had a wonderful time.  The ship was great.  We enjoyed the food and atmosphere.  We did not attend very much of the entertainment, so I can’t say much about it. The acapella singing group, Lighthouse, was wonderful.  The only shows we saw were the Broadway song and dance shows, which were fine.  The service was very good.  The room steward, Oliver, and the waiter, Marius, took very good care of us. We did almost all of the ports on our own.  We had a great time.  If you want to do the ports on your own, you must do a lot of research and have good guidebooks.  Don’t count on the ship to provide any information to help you tour.  Take a good guidebook and write ahead or check on the Internet for information on the ports.  We used Rick Steve’s Scandinavian book and website.  We also used Cruisemates website. Celebrity provided a free shuttle in almost every port.  When they did not, it was because the sights were too far for a shuttle or they were within walking distance.  Gdynia and Warnemunde were the only ports without shuttles.  We did not do a lot of shopping anywhere.  We used ATM’s in every port except St. Petersburg, where the vendors all took dollars. We purchased our air from the cruise line.  We flew United and SAS over and British Airways back.  SAS was much nicer than British Airways.  We got into Stockholm a couple of days early and stayed over in London a couple of days after.  We did not stay in the cruise line hotels.  English was spoken everywhere we went.  We had no problem communicating. We started from Stockholm.  We boarded on Saturday but the ship didn’t leave until Sunday.  Unfortunately, the shuttles stopped at 5:00 so to go into town on Saturday evening you had to take a taxi.  We were docked a long way from town, so you really couldn’t walk there.  The tourist information center in Stockholm was in a temporary location, so we had a little trouble finding it.  We ended up at the visitor bureau at the train station.  We bought the Stockholm card and then took the hop on bus tour.  Both worked very well for us.  We saw the Vasa museum, the Nordic museum, Skansen, the Royal Palace, and walked through Gamla Stan.  I liked Skansen best.  The cruise out through the archipelago is beautiful. The next stop was Riga, Latvia.  It was the first time Celebrity had stopped there.  The local bus company provided maps when we got off the bus.  We chanced into a wreath laying ceremony at their Freedom Monument.  I believe it was the 10-year anniversary of their legislature.  We also walked around the town.  We went to their market, which was amazing.  It is in the old zeppelin hangers and there are stands that sell everything from fish, meat, vegetables, baked goods, to canned goods.  Not many tourists found it, but it was worth the walk.  I bought some amber jewelry.  No, I haven’t checked it make sure it’s real.  It’s pretty & I like it.  We really enjoyed Riga. It was clean and vibrant.  There was lots of building and renovation going on. Next stop was Helsinki.  It was more touristy.  They also have a market, but it is aimed at least partially at tourists.  There were arts and crafts, food, and produce.  We bought some wonderful strawberries.  Some of the tourist items could be bought at Stockman’s Department store for less.  Stockman’s has a nice souvenir section. We did a walking tour of some of the historical sights. We spent the next two days in St. Petersburg.  This is the one port where we took ship excursions.  We did not have visas.  We took a bus overview of the city, a tour of the gardens at Peterhof, a night cruise of the canals, and a tour of the outlying palaces.  They were all fine, except the boat tour, which did not go well.  St. Petersburg is a very interesting city.  Some of the buildings have been renovated and are beautiful.  Others are very dilapidated.  There was not much building going on.  Lots of street vendors at every stop sold the same souvenirs.  The ship sold some of the same things after we left St. Petersburg.  I would think about hiring a guide and car, if I came again.  It doesn’t seem like a very easy city to do on your own. We then went to Tallinn, Estonia, a medieval city.  We did a walking tour around the historical sights.  The market here is definitely touristy.  It looks a lot like a Renaissance Festival-the vendors are even in costume.  There are some interesting galleries, if you get off the main streets. The next day was at sea.  We needed the break.  We did go to the wine tasting for the Captain’s Club Members, which was fun, and to the formal tea. We docked in Gdynia, Poland for tours into Gdansk.  We were there on a weekend and the local people were out for their holidays.  There is an amusement park and you can walk into town.  We happened on a very moving memorial plaque for Sept. 11.  The market here was touristy, but for the Polish tourists.  It looked a little like Panama City, FL. We walked into town, but we didn’t have any information on what we were seeing.   Try the waffles with cherries and cream!  There’s not a whole lot to see in Gdynia.  I would make the effort to get into Gdansk. We docked in Warnemunde for tours to Rostock.  The ship docked right at the train station so there weren’t any shuttles.  We took the train into Rostock.  It was very easy to do.  Rostock is another medieval city.  We walked around and saw the historical sights.  The market here mostly sold food.  We had a great jelly donut (Berliner).  We also had some very good food at a local restaurant.  Warnemunde is a beach resort.  The beach is right outside of town and was packed. There are lots of shops and restaurants. We had two days in Copenhagen.  The shuttle took us right into downtown.  We did Rick Steve’s walking tour.  The shuttle stopped at 5:00, so if you want to go into town in the evening you need to take a cab or buy the ship excursion to Tivoli, which is basically just a shuttle.  We did walk back from town, but it was a long walk.  The ship docked near the Little Mermaid.  We had smorrebrod at Hviids Viinstube.  The archaeological museum of the foundations of the castle was interesting.  We also went to the National Museum.  The next day we went to Christianshaven and Rosenborg Castle.  We had some great pastry.  After leaving port we saw a tall ship in full sail. Our last port was Oslo, Norway.  The fjords are beautiful.  We took the ferry over to the Viking Ship Museum and the Norwegian Folk Museum, which were both very interesting.  In the afternoon we did a walking tour through the historical parts of town.  The ship docked right next to an old fort. We had another day at sea and then docked in Dover.  Disembarkation went very well.  We used the ship transfer to Victoria bus station and walked to our B & B from there. We had a great time.  Let me know if I can answer any questions.

Response:

What a great review.  Made me want to go back again, as you visited all different places then we did when we were there for the most part. That’s one cruise I think I could take more then once. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We traveled on the Celebrity’s Constellation for a two-week tour through the Baltic starting on July 5, 2003.  We had a wonderful time.  The ship was great.  We enjoyed the food and atmosphere.  We did not attend very much of the entertainment, so I can’t say much about it. The acapella singing group, Lighthouse, was wonderful.  The only shows we saw were the Broadway song and dance shows, which were fine.  The service was very good.  The room steward, Oliver, and the waiter, Marius, took very good care of us. We did almost all of the ports on our own.  We had a great time.  If you want to do the ports on your own, you must do a lot of research and have good guidebooks.  Don’t count on the ship to provide any information to help you tour.  Take a good guidebook and write ahead or check on the Internet for information on the ports.  We used Rick Steve’s Scandinavian book and website.  We also used Cruisemates website. Celebrity provided a free shuttle in almost every port.  When they did not, it was because the sights were too far for a shuttle or they were within walking distance.  Gdynia and Warnemunde were the only ports without shuttles.  We did not do a lot of shopping anywhere.  We used ATM’s in every port except St. Petersburg, where the vendors all took dollars. We purchased our air from the cruise line.  We flew United and SAS over and British Airways back.  SAS was much nicer than British Airways.  We got into Stockholm a couple of days early and stayed over in London a couple of days after.  We did not stay in the cruise line hotels.  English was spoken everywhere we went.  We had no problem communicating. We started from Stockholm.  We boarded on Saturday but the ship didn’t leave until Sunday.  Unfortunately, the shuttles stopped at 5:00 so to go into town on Saturday evening you had to take a taxi.  We were docked a long way from town, so you really couldn’t walk there.  The tourist information center in Stockholm was in a temporary location, so we had a little trouble finding it.  We ended up at the visitor bureau at the train station.  We bought the Stockholm card and then took the hop on bus tour.  Both worked very well for us.  We saw the Vasa museum, the Nordic museum, Skansen, the Royal Palace, and walked through Gamla Stan.  I liked Skansen best.  The cruise out through the archipelago is beautiful. The next stop was Riga, Latvia.  It was the first time Celebrity had stopped there.  The local bus company provided maps when we got off the bus.  We chanced into a wreath laying ceremony at their Freedom Monument.  I believe it was the 10-year anniversary of their legislature.  We also walked around the town.  We went to their market, which was amazing.  It is in the old zeppelin hangers and there are stands that sell everything from fish, meat, vegetables, baked goods, to canned goods.  Not many tourists found it, but it was worth the walk.  I bought some amber jewelry.  No, I haven’t checked it make sure it’s real.  It’s pretty & I like it.  We really enjoyed Riga. It was clean and vibrant.  There was lots of building and renovation going on. Next stop was Helsinki.  It was more touristy.  They also have a market, but it is aimed at least partially at tourists.  There were arts and crafts, food, and produce.  We bought some wonderful strawberries.  Some of the tourist items could be bought at Stockman’s Department store for less.  Stockman’s has a nice souvenir section. We did a walking tour of some of the historical sights. We spent the next two days in St. Petersburg.  This is the one port where we took ship excursions.  We did not have visas.  We took a bus overview of the city, a tour of the gardens at Peterhof, a night cruise of the canals, and a tour of the outlying palaces.  They were all fine, except the boat tour, which did not go well.  St. Petersburg is a very interesting city.  Some of the buildings have been renovated and are beautiful.  Others are very dilapidated.  There was not much building going on.  Lots of street vendors at every stop sold the same souvenirs.  The ship sold some of the same things after we left St. Petersburg.  I would think about hiring a guide and car, if I came again.  It doesn’t seem like a very easy city to do on your own. We then went to Tallinn, Estonia, a medieval city.  We did a walking tour around the historical sights.  The market here is definitely touristy.  It looks a lot like a Renaissance Festival-the vendors are even in costume.  There are some interesting galleries, if you get off the main streets. The next day was at sea.  We needed the break.  We did go to the wine tasting for the Captain’s Club Members, which was fun, and to the formal tea. We docked in Gdynia, Poland for tours into Gdansk.  We were there on a weekend and the local people were out for their holidays.  There is an amusement park and you can walk into town.  We happened on a very moving memorial plaque for Sept. 11.  The market here was touristy, but for the Polish tourists.  It looked a little like Panama City, FL. We walked into town, but we didn’t have any information on what we were seeing.   Try the waffles with cherries and cream!  There’s not a whole lot to see in Gdynia.  I would make the effort to get into Gdansk. We docked in Warnemunde for tours to Rostock.  The ship docked right at the train station so there weren’t any shuttles.  We took the train into Rostock.  It was very easy to do.  Rostock is another medieval city.  We walked around and saw the historical sights.  The market here mostly sold food.  We had a great jelly donut (Berliner).  We also had some very good food at a local restaurant.  Warnemunde is a beach resort.  The beach is right outside of town and was packed. There are lots of shops and restaurants. We had two days in Copenhagen.  The shuttle took us right into downtown.  We did Rick Steve’s walking tour.  The shuttle stopped at 5:00, so if you want to go into town in the evening you need to take a cab or buy the ship excursion to Tivoli, which is basically just a shuttle.  We did walk back from town, but it was a long walk.  The ship docked near the Little Mermaid.  We had smorrebrod at Hviids Viinstube.  The archaeological museum of the foundations of the castle was interesting.  We also went to the National Museum.  The next day we went to Christianshaven and Rosenborg Castle.  We had some great pastry.  After leaving port we saw a tall ship in full sail. Our last port was Oslo, Norway.  The fjords are beautiful.  We took the ferry over to the Viking Ship Museum and the Norwegian Folk Museum, which were both very interesting.  In the afternoon we did a walking tour through the historical parts of town.  The ship docked right next to an old fort. We had another day at sea and then docked in Dover.  Disembarkation went very well.  We used the ship transfer to Victoria bus station and walked to our B & B from there. We had a great time.  Let me know if I can answer any questions.

Response:

Answered inline: We traveled on the Celebrity’s Constellation for a two-week tour through the Baltic starting on July 5, 2003.  We had a wonderful time.

Jo Anne, Thank you for your very interesting post. I was not aware that Celebrity had a ship visting Gydnia, Poland. So many cruises that go to St. Petersberg do not include a Polish port. You can be pretty certain that the amber that you purchased in Latvia is genuine as that is one of the areas it comes from. I purchased some amber rings and pins while in Poland while on a land trip.  I have seen it sold locally and it was for a much higher price than I paid. What I was wearing was admired by the shop owner who flew to Poland to get her jewelry. It sounds like a pretty port intensive itinerary, but all the ports were very interesting to visit, I imagine. We docked in Gdynia, Poland for tours into Gdansk.  We were there on a weekend and the local people were out for their holidays.  There is an amusement park and you can walk into town.  We happened on a very moving memorial plaque for Sept. 11.

When 9-11 occurred, I got e-mails from several Poles who expressed their sorrow. That is one country that genuinely likes Americans and I found it evident when we spent two weeks there. The market here was touristy, but for the Polish tourists.

This probably where I could find a blouse for the emboidered and beaded vest that I bought in Krakow! We walked into town, but we didn’t have any information on what we were seeing.   Try the waffles with cherries and cream!  There’s not a whole lot to see in Gdynia.  I would make the effort to get into Gdansk.

Were there excusions to Gdansk? We had two days in Copenhagen.  The shuttle took us right into downtown.  We did Rick Steve’s walking tour.

This is one city I would love to visit along with Amsterdam. We had another day at sea and then docked in Dover.  Disembarkation went very well.  We used the ship transfer to Victoria bus station and walked to our B & B from there.

Loved your itinerary and hope one day we will be able to do it~~So many places to go and so little time! Would you mind sharing the name of your B&B and how you liked it? Thanks! –Jean

Response:

We traveled on the Celebrity’s Constellation for a two-week tour through the Baltic starting on July 5, 2003.  We had a wonderful time.  The ship was great.  We enjoyed the food and atmosphere.  We did not attend very much of the entertainment, so I can’t say much about it. The acapella singing group, Lighthouse, was wonderful.  The only shows we saw were the Broadway song and dance shows, which were fine.  The service was very good.  The room steward, Oliver, and the waiter, Marius, took very good care of us. We did almost all of the ports on our own.  We had a great time.  If you want to do the ports on your own, you must do a lot of research and have good guidebooks.  Don’t count on the ship to provide any information to help you tour.  Take a good guidebook and write ahead or check on the Internet for information on the ports.  We used Rick Steve’s Scandinavian book and website.  We also used Cruisemates website. Celebrity provided a free shuttle in almost every port.  When they did not, it was because the sights were too far for a shuttle or they were within walking distance.  Gdynia and Warnemunde were the only ports without shuttles.  We did not do a lot of shopping anywhere.  We used ATM’s in every port except St. Petersburg, where the vendors all took dollars. We purchased our air from the cruise line.  We flew United and SAS over and British Airways back.  SAS was much nicer than British Airways.  We got into Stockholm a couple of days early and stayed over in London a couple of days after.  We did not stay in the cruise line hotels.  English was spoken everywhere we went.  We had no problem communicating. We started from Stockholm.  We boarded on Saturday but the ship didn’t leave until Sunday.  Unfortunately, the shuttles stopped at 5:00 so to go into town on Saturday evening you had to take a taxi.  We were docked a long way from town, so you really couldn’t walk there.  The tourist information center in Stockholm was in a temporary location, so we had a little trouble finding it.  We ended up at the visitor bureau at the train station.  We bought the Stockholm card and then took the hop on bus tour.  Both worked very well for us.  We saw the Vasa museum, the Nordic museum, Skansen, the Royal Palace, and walked through Gamla Stan.  I liked Skansen best.  The cruise out through the archipelago is beautiful. The next stop was Riga, Latvia.  It was the first time Celebrity had stopped there.  The local bus company provided maps when we got off the bus.  We chanced into a wreath laying ceremony at their Freedom Monument.  I believe it was the 10-year anniversary of their legislature.  We also walked around the town.  We went to their market, which was amazing.  It is in the old zeppelin hangers and there are stands that sell everything from fish, meat, vegetables, baked goods, to canned goods.  Not many tourists found it, but it was worth the walk.  I bought some amber jewelry.  No, I haven’t checked it make sure it’s real.  It’s pretty & I like it.  We really enjoyed Riga. It was clean and vibrant.  There was lots of building and renovation going on. Next stop was Helsinki.  It was more touristy.  They also have a market, but it is aimed at least partially at tourists.  There were arts and crafts, food, and produce.  We bought some wonderful strawberries.  Some of the tourist items could be bought at Stockman’s Department store for less.  Stockman’s has a nice souvenir section. We did a walking tour of some of the historical sights. We spent the next two days in St. Petersburg.  This is the one port where we took ship excursions.  We did not have visas.  We took a bus overview of the city, a tour of the gardens at Peterhof, a night cruise of the canals, and a tour of the outlying palaces.  They were all fine, except the boat tour, which did not go well.  St. Petersburg is a very interesting city.  Some of the buildings have been renovated and are beautiful.  Others are very dilapidated.  There was not much building going on.  Lots of street vendors at every stop sold the same souvenirs.  The ship sold some of the same things after we left St. Petersburg.  I would think about hiring a guide and car, if I came again.  It doesn’t seem like a very easy city to do on your own. We then went to Tallinn, Estonia, a medieval city.  We did a walking tour around the historical sights.  The market here is definitely touristy.  It looks a lot like a Renaissance Festival

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :  … Happy New Year everybody!  …  … It’s now one year since the Euro replaced the traditional currency of  … the participating countries of the European Union – there were  … predictions that within one year, all the coins (and banknotes) would  … become completely mixed.  …  The real number seems to be far less- I estimate here in Germany,  … possibly 1% and certainly less than 5% of the coins in normal  … circulation (ie outside of airport bars etc) are from other countries.  … The same is true with banknotes, although the higher denominations (100?  … and upwards) do seem to circulate more.  …  What is happening? Is the same true in other countries? Are coin  … collectors grabbing all the coins? Is anyone tracking the movement? Not as far as I’m concerned. Almost every time I shop I get Belgian, Dutch, German and Spanish coins – I have been wondering if the neighbours are invading France… ) I remember getting Italian, Greek and even Finnish coins as well – maybe others too, but I don’t always pay attention.

I was given one of those "Euro Collectors" for the coins, so I have been filling in the coins I get in change when I think of it (I’m in Ireland). There are 8 coins, so what I have so far are all of the Irish, French, German & Spanish coins, 7 Belgian & Portuguese, 6 Italian, 5 Netherlands, 3 Greek, 1 Austrian & Finnish & 0 Luxemburg (guess I’ll have a bit of a wait for those to turn up:-) I’ve never paid any attention to the notes, although I was aware of the serial no. way of distinguishing them. Obviously I have only kept one of each, but by far the most common country coins to pop up in my purse every day are the Spanish coins. I guess this works both from the amount of Spanish coming here as the amount of Irish going there for a bit of sun. Regards Anne Marie

Response:

Miguel Cruz schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The real number seems to be far less- I estimate here in Germany, possibly 1% and certainly less than 5% of the coins in normal circulation (ie outside of airport bars etc) are from other countries. Looking at a handful of coins accumulated in the Netherlands over the past week, I see 7 Dutch, 4 German, and 2 Belgian. A recent article in the newspaper suggested that within a few years the majority of the coins in circulation in the Netherlands will be German. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

Looking at the data on this site http://www.wiskgenoot.nl/eurodiffusie/engindex.html it suggests that 35% of the coins in Europe are minted in Germany. I can’t confirm this, however it would mean that smaller countries like Austria or Portugal would be using mainly "foreign" coins rather than their own after a while. Of course, new coins are minted all the time, so this effect would be reduced somewhat. Tom

Response:

Sjoerd schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -snip- On my holidays in France last year I was twice asked for Irish Euro coins – once at a small bar and the second time at our apartment where a Dutch collector swapped a full set… Idle speculation;  no agenda at all here: If the UK entered the Eurozone, and one mapped the geographic spread of UK Euros, in what order would the focal points be ranked? My guess is: (a) cross-channel purchases (parts of Calais would probably be close to a UK-Euro-exclusive zonze); (b) the package-hols places in Spain (lots of people, but spending comparatively little); (c) similar places in Greece (ditto); (d) Chiantishire (fewer people, spending a lot, but probably using more cards than cash?). …….and so on….. You should add Amsterdam to the list. Thousands of British guys on stag-parties and hundreds of British girls on hen-parties every weekend. And a few British adult tourists in the museums. Sjoerd

And they pay for their Amsterdam pleasures in cents and euro coins? I knew the Brits were supposed to be penny-pinchers, but this is ridiculous <vbg… Tom

Response:

I did note that the French (or the Parisians, at least), in keeping with the old disdain for centimes, seem to find 1 and 2 cent coins to be a waste of time and effort.

Well, then, France should just follow the lead of Finland and simply not release those coins into general circulation! In Finland, all cash payments are rounded to x,x0 or x,x5 and even if you have 1 or 2 cent coins from other countries, the shopkeepers are not required to accept them. I believe, however, that there are some challenges to this policy being pursued in various courts. cheers, Henry

Response:

French and German coins (both share the prize for the ugliest subjects)

Uglier than King Albert II?? I think not. Belgium wins the prize for "ugliest euro coins" hands down. -Peter in Brussels

Response:

Happy New Year everybody! It’s now one year since the Euro replaced the traditional currency of the participating countries of the European Union – there were predictions that within one year, all the coins (and banknotes) would become completely mixed.  The real number seems to be far less- I estimate here in Germany, possibly 1% and certainly less than 5% of the coins in normal circulation (ie outside of airport bars etc) are from other countries. The same is true with banknotes, although the higher denominations (100

Question:

It seems to me that if I know you’re going to be on the Amazing Race you could hire me to be your 24/7 travel agent, with the Internet ready at hand to research and make any reservations necessary. I’m sure there is a rule that says this is not allowed. Marcus – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

It seems to me that if I know you’re going to be on the Amazing Race you could hire me to be your 24/7 travel agent, with the Internet ready at hand to research and make any reservations necessary. I’m sure there is a rule that says this is not allowed.

You are correct: the teams are forbidden to communicate during the race with anyone they had known before the start of the race. Edward Hasbrouck <http://hasbrouck.org "The Practical Nomad Guide to the Online Travel Marketplace" <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566912504/edwardhasbro "The Practical Nomad: How to Travel Around the World" <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566912148/edwardhasbro

Response:

What about the cameramen? Does each team get 1? 2? I always wonder what the relationship is like of the cameramen and their team. Also I wonder if some cameramen are faster than others. I mean what if it is the cameraman that is slowing you down as you run? I also bet the cameramen call some sort of "center" to give updates as the day is going along. Finally, one other observation. There must be a ton of downtime in this game. So much time sitting around airports and trying to sleep on planes. I bet if you took the actual action involved in the game the "race" can be boiled down to about 4 hours of activity . Marcus – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stonehaven, Scotland (U.K.) – Porto (Portugal) – Lisbon (Portugal)

Response:

What about the cameramen? Does each team get 1? 2?

1 plus a sound man.  There are other cameras at pitstops and roadblocks. I always wonder what the relationship is like of the cameramen and their team.

I’ve wondered that, too.  It’s hard to imagine that the cameraman can’t get involved in "rooting" for his/her team. Also I wonder if some cameramen are faster than others. I mean what if it is the cameraman that is slowing you down as you run?

Hmmm.  Good question.  I know there have been episodes where teams have been awarded a time bonus because of "technical problems" which, I imagine, involved the production people. I also bet the cameramen call some sort of "center" to give updates as the day is going along. Finally, one other observation. There must be a ton of downtime in this game. So much time sitting around airports and trying to sleep on planes. I bet if you took the actual action involved in the game the "race" can be boiled down to about 4 hours of activity .

I’m sure you’re right.  One of the teams from an earlier season said in an interview that the entire race (12 1-hour episodes and a 2-hour finale) took 31 days. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Marcus Stonehaven, Scotland (U.K.) – Porto (Portugal) – Lisbon (Portugal)

Response:

What about the cameramen? Does each team get 1? 2?

1 camera operator and 1 sound technician.  That’s what Team Guido told me.  It’s also apparent from the shots in taxis: the racers are always seated in the back seat, with one behind the driver and one in the *middle* of the rear seat. The camera person sits in front, so they can film the view forward through the windshield, or get a shot backward of the 2 racers through the space between the front seats. The sound technician must be sitting in the back seat behind the camera person. Edward Hasbrouck <http://hasbrouck.org "The Practical Nomad Guide to the Online Travel Marketplace" <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566912504/edwardhasbro "The Practical Nomad: How to Travel Around the World" <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566912148/edwardhasbro

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What about the cameramen? Does each team get 1? 2? I always wonder what the relationship is like of the cameramen and their team. Also I wonder if some cameramen are faster than others. I mean what if it is the cameraman that is slowing you down as you run? I also bet the cameramen call some sort of "center" to give updates as the day is going along. Finally, one other observation. There must be a ton of downtime in this game. So much time sitting around airports and trying to sleep on planes. I bet if you took the actual action involved in the game the "race" can be boiled down to about 4 hours of activity . Marcus Stonehaven, Scotland (U.K.) – Porto (Portugal) – Lisbon (Portugal)

Response:

OK I watched this week’s episode. Had never watched the show before. I noticed prominent display of "British Airways". I suspect that there was a rule that originating airline had to be BA from england. (although from Frankfurt to Portugal they seem to use Lufthansa and had to do a separate check-in.

When the producers want a specific airline, they say so right in the route instructions. Their "quick" transfer at Frankfurt was suspect. Was the airport totally empty without anyone else ?  Also, if I had such a short connection requiring switching terminals, I would be RUNNING. They were just walking, at times walking fast.

I thought they were running.  At any rate, Frankfurt is a pretty big airport — perhaps they sprinted and just ran out of wind.  What amazed me was that they were able to talk the desk agent into reopening a closed flight. At the very least, I would get one guy to run like hell to get to the check-in counter and start the process while other carry the luggage and a slower

speed. I’m going to guess that one of the rules is that, except for Roadblocks, the teams have to stay together the entire time. Also, if they had total freedom, shouldn’t they get ONE travel agent they could call anytime and get the TA to do the checking for best/available flighst and do the bookings ? Or do they just call British Airways reservations since they are forced to choose BA ?

I’m also curious whether the rules preclude using a TA.  Perhaps they’re not allowed to prearrange a TA, or simply aren’t experienced enough travellers to realize that this is an option (Travelocity is, after all, a form of travel agency). When the producers setup the game, they would know exactly what sort of schedules are available, especially for the train ride they had to take. Seems that the producers would have timed the exercise prior to the train ride such that everyone would have time to complete the task and get to the train station in time to catch that train.

I get the impression that, sometimes, the Detour and Roadblock tasks take less time than the producers anticipated. When they call BA, I have a feeling that they were given a special number and reach a reservation agent who is aware of their game and aware of the billing information (probably bill the producers directly, right ?)

No.  The soundmen have credit cards which are used to purchase the tickets (full fare coach, only).  I think that, when the producers want to steer towards a specific airline (last season American was a sponsor), the require the teams to go through a specific airport where the primary (or perhaps only) carrier between two points is the desired airline. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Overall,  it just didn’t seem so realistic.

Response:

OK I watched this week’s episode. Had never watched the show before. I noticed prominent display of "British Airways". I suspect that there was a rule that originating airline had to be BA from england. (although from Frankfurt to Portugal they seem to use Lufthansa and had to do a separate check-in. Their "quick" transfer at Frankfurt was suspect. Was the airport totally empty without anyone else ?  Also, if I had such a short connection requiring switching terminals, I would be RUNNING. They were just walking, at times walking fast. At the very least, I would get one guy to run like hell to get to the check-in counter and start the process while other carry the luggage and a slower speed. Also, if they had total freedom, shouldn’t they get ONE travel agent they could call anytime and get the TA to do the checking for best/available flighst and do the bookings ? Or do they just call British Airways reservations since they are forced to choose BA ? When the producers setup the game, they would know exactly what sort of schedules are available, especially for the train ride they had to take. Seems that the producers would have timed the exercise prior to the train ride such that everyone would have time to complete the task and get to the train station in time to catch that train. When they call BA, I have a feeling that they were given a special number and reach a reservation agent who is aware of their game and aware of the billing information (probably bill the producers directly, right ?) Overall,  it just didn’t seem so realistic.

Response:

Stonehaven, Scotland (U.K.) – Porto (Portugal) – Lisbon (Portugal) IAN: "HOW DO WE GET TO PORTUGAL?" TERI: "WE HAVE TO FLY!" Sorry to disappoint those who hoped that the order of finish of the teams on "The Amazing Race" would depend on something other than which teams took which flights: Once again in this week’s episode, the deciding factor in who was or wasn’t eliminated — even on a short leg, entirely within Europe — was the racers’ skill (or lack thereof) in choosing which flights to take from Scotland to Portugal. On the surface, the reason Harvard Law School roommates Eve and Heather were eliminated was that, despite finishing first, they were penalized 37 minutes for disregarding the instructions the racers were given to walk from the site of the final task to the finish line for this episode. Instead, they took a taxi. Didn’t anyone at Harvard Law teach them the importance of reading the governing rules and definitions carefully, before deciding on a strategy and course of action? But at the end of the day, as host Phil Keoghan noted while informing Heather and Eve of their penalty and elimination, 37 minutes wouldn’t be expected to make the difference between first place and last. The only reason the racers were bunched so closely together was that all the teams chose one or the other of two flight routes, with seven of the nine teams choosing the exact same flights. Throughout "The Amazing Race", the tasks the racers have been required to complete have been photogenic (the "race" is made for TV, after all), but actually quite brief. Rarely have any of the "road blocks" or "detours" taken more than an hour. Choices of flights, routes, and connections have several times made differences of 12 hours or more in when teams arrived at their destinations. This week, any of the teams could have arrived at least three or four hours ahead of all the rest (far enough that a penalty like that to Eve and Heather wouldn’t have changed the order of finish), if they hadn’t all made the same mistake in choosing less than optimal flights from Aberdeen to Porto through London’s Heathrow Airport. Yes, Heathrow is the world’s busiest international airport and pre-eminent intercontinental air hub. But that doesn’t mean that the best way to get from anywhere to anywhere is first to fly yourself to London, and then to figure out the rest from there. Yet the racers were all so confident in their presumption that all roads lead to London, and that Heathrow is the only major London airport, that several teams ignored clear indications to the contrary, and easy opportunities to discover and correct their mistake. When Kathy and Michael asked a local for information about getting to the airport, he not only lent them his mobile phone to call for reservations but pointed out that "Aberdeen [Airport] goes international", i.e. has direct international flights as well as domestic flights to other cities in the U.K. They ignored him, booked a flight from Aberdeen to London Heathrow, and only from London started looking for flights to Porto. Similarly, Jill and John Vito, who got a pub owner to let them into his apartment and use his computer to search for flights, are shown in a video clip on the CBS Web site searching Travelocity.com for flights from Aberdeen to … London Heathrow. Had they taken the few extra seconds, while they were on the Internet, to ask about connections from Aberdeen to Porto, even the limited options shown by Travelocity.com would have included those via nonstop flights from Aberdeen to Amsterdam, Paris, or London’s only slightly less well-known Gatwick Airport (actually the world’s sixth busiest international airport, with more intra-European flights than Heathrow), rather than London Heathrow. Any of those routes would have gotten them to Porto three or four hours ahead of those who went through Heathrow. Even the two teams who took an alternate route did so only after staying with the rest of the pack as far as Heathrow, and thus missed all the best routes. The bottom line for future contestants on "The Amazing Race" (applications are already being accepted through the CBS.com Web site for The Amazing Race 4) is that the skill and strategy most likely to make a difference in the race for a million dollars is finding flights and air routes. That’s been true in every season, making it somewhat surprising that none of the teams this time around seems to have practiced or prepared for the one key challenge — dealing with flight arrangements — that they knew they would face throughout the race. But what are the lessons in this for us ordinary travellers? (1) It’s generally best to ask about flights for your entire journey, rather than making reservations separately for each portion. If you try to break up your tickets, you run a substantial risk of missing out on better possibilities via alternate connection points that you hadn’t considered. Actually flying to an intermediate point, and then trying to arrange the rest of your flights to your actual destination, is usually the worst strategy of all. (2) The biggest air hubs aren’t always the best. All else being equal, they’re often the worst places to change planes, since they tend to be larger, often with multiple terminals, and thus with much farther to go between gates for connecting flights. Minimum connecting times specified by the airlines are almost invariably shortest for the smallest airports. And the risk that your checked baggage will be mis-routed in transit is less at a smaller airport. In general, being routed through a smaller airport or city, even one you’ve never heard of, should be seen as a positive thing. (3) The explosion of airline capacity around the world in the last decade has included a parallel explosion in the number of direct flights between secondary cities and airports. These days it’s a relatively rare country that doesn’t have direct international flights to more than just the capital or largest city. You don’t have to go through London to get to Aberdeen any more than you have to go through Lisbon to get to Porto — or, for that matter, through New York to get to Phoenix. There are many more international gateways like Aberdeen, and direct flights between provincial cities in different countries, than most people realize. While "The Amazing Race 3" was being filmed, for example, KLM not only added a fourth daily nonstop flight in each direction between Aberdeen and Amsterdam but also added daily nonstop service between Aberdeen and Stavanger, Norway, to serve the profitable business traffic between these two centers of the North Sea oil industry. You can’t count on such frequent or direct flights — some desirable flights don’t exist at all, or only operate once a week — but if you don’t ask for what you really want, you’ll never find out if it would have been possible. Most of us aren’t in a race, of course, and don’t need or want to go as fast as possible. Perhaps the smartest thing Eve or Heather had to say throughout the race, at least on camera, was what Heather said after they were eliminated: "I plan to do a lot more travelling, definitely. Hopefully at a much slower pace, so I can actually stop and enjoy things." When we slow down and take time to look, listen, and learn, there are even more advantages to arriving in a new country through smaller airports and cities. My fellow Avalon Travel Publishing author Rick Steves calls these less obvious entry points "back doors", and highlights them as keys to a more genuine encounter with the place and the people we came to experience. Pico Iyer, coming to a similar conclusion from a different direction, devotes a large portion of his wonderfully perceptive "The Global Soul" to the globally homogenized culture of international airports: the sorts of places where, once we are in them, we can’t even tell what continent we’re on. I always try to enter a country or region somewhere other than the capital or largest city or airport, if it doesn’t cost too much more. I’ve never regretted it. Far easier to enter Japan in, say, Fukuoka — a major international airport, with excellent surface transportation connections, but where an arriving American tourist is, per se, sufficiently unusual to be an object of friendly curiosity — than in Tokyo. Just as I’d recommend that a first-time visitor exploring the Northeastern USA arrive at Boston’s Logan Airport or Washington’s Dulles rather than New York City’s JFK. Don’t get me wrong: New York’s a wonderful place to visit, and far less difficult to get around than many newcomers fear. But it’s a lot easier to cope with, and to appreciate, once you have some perspective and experience of travel in "provincial" USA. It’s not just the size of the place, but what sort of travellers go there: some huge international airports like S

Question:

this sort of sophisticated plan is all a big smokescreen…the real threats are going to come from bottles that seemingly contain breast milk and GI Joe gun replicas. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Airlines Told to Watch for Impostors Thieves take uniforms; crew members report being stalked By Greg Schneider THE WASHINGTON POST WASHINGTON, Aug. 10

Question:

BREST has very little what makes the Finistere in Brittany so SNIP Jack

Jack, what is the weather usually like in April in Brittany??

Response:

BREST has very little what makes the Finistere in Brittany so SNIP Jack Jack, what is the weather usually like in April in Brittany??

It rains. Just like the other eleven months. But don’t let that put you off. PB

Response:

From Brest to Quimper you must of course make a stop at DOUARNENEZ.

Douarnenez is the birthplace of Brittany’s national pastry–Kouign Amann. Kouign Amman flies low under the radar often undetected by gourmets and foodies. Who would choose kouign amman for the first time when confronted with choices such as barvarois aux framboises, charlotte aux pommes, souffle au chocolat, crepes suzette, etc. it sounds like oatmeal or a not so distant cousin of haggis. Initiates will know however that it is perhaps the ultimate combination of butter, sugar and flour and perhaps that Douarnanez was its birthplace. The "Association des Artisans Fabriquant le Kouign Amann de Douarnenez" <http://www.kouign-amann.fr.fm/ and its members all sell their version of the very caramelised and buttery pastry under the seal of the association. — Food/Wine/Travel website with a French focus <http://www.worldtable.com Paris, July 2001 <http://www.worldtable.com/reports/paris.jul.2001.html French dining forum <http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/forums.cgi?forum=11                      

Response:

BREST has very little what makes the Finistere in Brittany so beautiful. It is remorsely modern! Unless you’re a fan of concrete and ugly modern buildings. The most optimistic say, "it is a dazzling post war architecture, resembling a low rise New York, and looks very impressive when highlighted by a sudden burst of sunlight against a backcloth of gray, scudding skies. It has not always been like that, but Brest was so heavily destroyed during WWII (6 weeks of non-stop bombardments), that the reconstruction fell into the wrong hands and the much, much too quick. Today, you will only find some remains of the old Brest in 15th century TANGUY tower, including a museum about the history of Brest. And off course, only the naval traditions remain, founded by Richelieu in 1631 and developed by Napoleon. The promenade along the commercial port is the Cours Dajot. Between Brest and the Crozon peninsula lies the superb natural harbor of ROYALE, the French Marine. Other curiosity is OCEANOPOLIS, a scientific and technical research center of sea environment. What you can do is to spend a few hours in LANDERNEAU, wit its pretty port and agreeable open-air market at the river Elorn.The PONT DE ROHAN (16th century) attracts a lot of people, one of the rare European bridges still existing with houses on both sides.   From Brest to Quimper you must of course make a stop at DOUARNENEZ. I don’t know many places that succeeded to be an active fisher port and an agreeable bathing resort at the same time like Douarnenez. And it is ONE of the MOST important fisher ports in France. Legend says it stays where the sunken island of "YS" was standing. Nothing precious or pretentious about this village. A working, workmanlike Breton port and canning center. For a whiff of the sea, go to the port when the sardine, lobster and deep-sea fishing boats are unloading their catches. And if you don’t lodge in an apartment with a kitchen, and can’t cook all these delicacies, no problem: the Port de Rosmeur is lined with restaurants. A few beautiful beeches like the "PLAGE DES DAMES", a yacht harbor and sailing school. The neighboring town of TREBOUL is a thalassotherapy center, open all year. And the famous "Pardon", takes place every year at STE.ANNE LA PALUD. But remember, whichever way you go, all roads west eventually lead to the incomparable POINTE DU RAZ. This is Finistere’s most breathtaking sight, a spectacle that eclipses all others, despite in summer months it might be overcrowded with tourists. It is indeed a magnet for tourists, despite its very difficult location at the north end of a bay, with NO interest! An advice: come early or late in the day. A reminder: just off the point lies the tiny ILE DE SEIN,the last refuge of the druids, according to old legends. Bibliography Brest en fl

Question:

Please note that if you are not a citizen of one of the EEA countries, you will need a residence permit and a work permit if you want to

work. http://www.workpermits.gov.uk/default.asp?pageid=1558 http://www.britainusa.com/consular/visas/YesInves.asp Good luck. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Video, Audio, Print & the Web Washington DC & London

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you have any reason to believe you can find such a job in any of the locations you have named?  I assume you are a US citizen and not a foreigner working here. Sales and marketing is not exactly a field in which you can easily make the claim that you innately better suited than a local or that you have technical training they don’t.  It’s not the odds that will stacked against getting a job, but the laws. Am I wrong in believing that only members of the European Union can work legally in these countries?  Unless one’s employer sponsors you for a work visa?  My son worked in Belgium for two years and his company which was in partnership with a Belgium company arranged it all.  Even so, it was a lengthy and grueling process.

I don’t know the details, but I suspect you are at least partially correct. My impression is that they would have to make a good claim as to why your employment is not taking a job away from a EU citizen. I suppose there are other claims that can be made besides just doing work that can’t be done by a local, e.g.some exchange program, some educational program, etc. — Food/Wine/Travel website with a French focus <http://www.worldtable.com Paris, July 2001 <http://www.worldtable.com/reports/paris.jul.2001.html French dining forum <http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/forums.cgi?forum=11                      

Response:

Philip George schrieb: I work for the US government so if they transferred me it shouldn’t be a problem…. Yes you will still need a work permit to transfer to the UK.

To work for a government agency (embassy, military base etc.)? Don’t think so. Regards, ULF

Response:

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" schrieb: That may be the way it works out, practically speaking, but anyone who can GET a work permit can "work legally" in that country, can’t they?  (I assume that’s what "work permit" means.)  Even opera singers with international careers have to have work permits for whatever country they are performing in. False. Not needed in Germany. They might need entry visas.

If you say so – I was only repeating what I’d been told. (But then, Germany – and Austria – are a bit more enlightened than the U.S., when it comes to the arts.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regards, ULF

Response:

(snip) I don’t know the details, but I suspect you are at least partially correct. My impression is that they would have to make a good claim as to why your employment is not taking a job away from a EU citizen. I suppose there are other claims that can be made besides just doing work that can’t be done by a local, e.g.some exchange program, some educational program, etc.

There is a worldwide school system for military kids called the Dep’t of Defense Dependent Schools (DoDDS.)  It employs teachers and a fairly large infrastructure of specialists in IT, etc.  My wife is a teacher in that system and I am a school nurse.  She was hired in the States and our move here was paid.  Unlike a contract government worker, a DoDDS teacher can remain in place as long as the job is there.  So if you have a wanderlust (and you are an experienced teacher with a Masters, or a school counselor, or have a strong IT tech support background,) it might be worth checking out.   Tom Brunssum, NL

Response:

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" schrieb: That may be the way it works out, practically speaking, but anyone who can GET a work permit can "work legally" in that country, can’t they?  (I assume that’s what "work permit" means.)  Even opera singers with international careers have to have work permits for whatever country they are performing in.

False. Not needed in Germany. They might need entry visas. Regards, ULF

Response:

Am I wrong in believing that only members of the European Union can work legally in these countries?

That may be the way it works out, practically speaking, but anyone who can GET a work permit can "work legally" in that country, can’t they?  (I assume that’s what "work permit" means.)  Even opera singers with international careers have to have work permits for whatever country they are performing in.  Of course all that is handled by their agents or business managers (and there’s no question of the permit being granted, if you’re someone like Domingo or Pavarotti), but it doesn’t much matter who you are, you have to have legal permission to work in any country other than your own.

Response:

EU nationals can work in other EU countries without any fancy formalities.  Nationals of non-EU countries can generally work in EU countries only after filling out lots of paperwork and getting special approvals.  Permanent resident-alien status often confers the right to work in an EU country; for non-EU nationals without that status, it’s usually a matter of getting the right kind of visa, the appropriate residency permit, and often a separate work authorization, which can range from authorizing just about any work at all to authorizing only one specific job for one specific employer in one specific location. Some types of professionals (doctors and lawyers, typically, and others) are heavily regulated, and occasionally some professions or specific jobs are restricted to citizens only (or, more rarely, to EU nationals only).  Overall, however, if you fill out all the paperwork, get the right approvals, and wait long enough, you can work in the EU no matter where you are from.  Note that "long enough" can mean easily 18 months, or sometimes much longer.  If you work for a large multinational, the process can be expedited (ditto for special cases like opera singers and sports stars); if you are doing it all on your own, you’ll need lots of patience. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Am I wrong in believing that only members of the European Union can work legally in these countries? That may be the way it works out, practically speaking, but anyone who can GET a work permit can "work legally" in that country, can’t they?  (I assume that’s what "work permit" means.)  Even opera singers with international careers have to have work permits for whatever country they are performing in.  Of course all that is handled by their agents or business managers (and there’s no question of the permit being granted, if you’re someone like Domingo or Pavarotti), but it doesn’t much matter who you are, you have to have legal permission to work in any country other than your own.

Response:

Considering work, I suspect the best place would be one where you got a job. While I don’t know where you are coming from, I’d guess that might be the clincher. Jobs for non-Europeans will be difficult to get in any of those places, although Spain represents a larger opportunity as it’s much bigger than London or Amsterdam.

A friend of mine, a fluent English-speaking German national, a qualified doctor, went to Spain last year with his Spanish partner. He could not find a job anywhere because there were no vacancies for doctors in tourist areas like Malaga, and noone wanted to employ him anywhere else because he didn’t speak Spanish.  After a year they both came back to the UK.  Being German he did not require a work permit to work in Spain. So if you’re thinking of going to Spain, don’t unless you can speak Spanish. Similarly it is very hard to get a job in Amsterdam if you do not speak Dutch.  Whilst they speak English very well, the working language is Dutch. I think your best bet is London.  But as mentioned earlier it will not be easy for you to get a UK work permit unless you can find a job first, unless you’re a nurse, teacher or doctor. phil

Response:

Unless of course you’re a nurse or teacher (or a few other required professions) basically if you’re willing to help the government out by working in an underfunded prefession, they’re more likely to be willing to let you stay, regardless of where you’re from (kind of them huh…)

Or you’re self-employed and can work from overseas (eg, I’m an author). Or rich…

Response:

Do you have any reason to believe you can find such a job in any of the locations you have named?  I assume you are a US citizen and not a foreigner working here. Sales and marketing is not exactly a field in which you can easily make the claim that you innately better suited than a local or that you have technical training they don’t.  It’s not the odds that will stacked against getting a job, but the laws. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sorry about that….i am 23 and currently working at a New Media and Production company in NYC.  i am looking for a job in sales & marketing.   London, spain and amsterdam are completely different cities… I mean you have to tell us what you plan do for a living, what kind of job you are looking for in Europe. ’til then, kevin. < < < < "People who call jam band music boring can be like people who call baseball boring. They often just don’t make the effort to hear and see the inner game." < < < <

– Food/Wine/Travel website with a French focus <http://www.worldtable.com Paris, July 2001 <http://www.worldtable.com/reports/paris.jul.2001.html French dining forum <http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/forums.cgi?forum=11                      

Response:

hello everyone! i am thinking about moving to either london, spain or amsterdam for a year starting next september. which of those three (or any other country) would be the ideal place to live…considering work, housing/apartment and social aspects. also, could anyone recommend a good site to check out apartments to rent? thanks! kevin

I think most countries require foreign nationals to have residence visas and work permits, if they plan to live and work there.  Perhaps you should check that out, before you start looking for a place to live?  (It might not be as easy as you think.)  Also,which languages do you speak?  If you intend to work there, it might be nice if you were fluent in the language, don’t you think? (Personally, I’d opt for Vienna, if I had a choice.)

Response:

Please note that if you are not a citizen of one of the EEA countries, you will need a residence permit and a work permit if you want to work. It is *not* easy to get a work permit and you need to be sponsored by a company. For a residence permit you need to be relatively wealthy.

  What if your US company wants to transfer you to thier European location? Do you still need work permits?  Are they easy to obtain in this situation? I work for the US government so if they transferred me it shouldn’t be a problem…. dennis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

  What if your US company wants to transfer you to thier European location? Do you still need work permits?  Are they easy to obtain in this situation? I work for the US government so if they transferred me it shouldn’t be a problem…. dennis

US citizens are aliens in Europe just as citizens of different European countries are in the US. US companies and government employees in Europe are aliens as well, so laws concerning residence and work permits have to be observed by US citizens and institutions in Europe. Usually these regulations are agreed upon and applied reciprocically, so in priciple it is just as difficult for a US citizen to get the necessary permits in Europe as it is for a citizen of an European country to get them in the US. When these rules are not met, the situation can be called interferance in the matters of a foreign country, a terrorist attack or a war. tv

Response:

  What if your US company wants to transfer you to thier European location? Do you still need work permits?

Of course. Are they easy to obtain in this situation?

The European location of the US company can sponsor the non-EEA citizen. They will have to prove that there is nobody in the EEA who could do the job. I work for the US government so if they transferred me it shouldn’t be a problem….

As a diplomat, you have to be accepted by the host country. As an ordinary citizen working for the US government, you will need a work permit and a residence permit just like oter US citizens. Sjoerd

Response:

hello everyone! i am thinking about moving to either london, spain or amsterdam for a year starting next september.   which of those three (or any other country) would be the ideal place to live…considering work, housing/apartment and social aspects.  

Considering work, I suspect the best place would be one where you got a job. While I don’t know where you are coming from, I’d guess that might be the clincher. Jobs for non-Europeans will be difficult to get in any of those places, although Spain represents a larger opportunity as it’s much bigger than London or Amsterdam. also, could anyone recommend a good site to check out apartments to rent?   thanks! kevin

– Food/Wine/Travel website with a French focus <http://www.worldtable.com Paris, July 2001 <http://www.worldtable.com/reports/paris.jul.2001.html French dining forum <http://www.egullet.com/cgi-bin/forums.cgi?forum=11                      

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  What if your US company wants to transfer you to thier European location? Do you still need work permits?  Are they easy to obtain in this situation? I work for the US government so if they transferred me it shouldn’t be a problem…. Getting work rights in the UK (probably Europe also) is virtually impossible without a company sponsor.  The only exception is if your country has a ‘working holiday’ agreement with the UK whereby you may come for perhaps 1 or 2 years to work, although you are not supposed to engage in any ‘professional’ employment.

Unless of course you’re a nurse or teacher (or a few other required professions) basically if you’re willing to help the government out by working in an underfunded prefession, they’re more likely to be willing to let you stay, regardless of where you’re from (kind of them huh…)

Response:

 What if your US company wants to transfer you to thier European location? Do you still need work permits?  Are they easy to obtain in this situation? I work for the US government so if they transferred me it shouldn’t be a problem….

Yes you will still need a work permit to transfer to the UK.  If you already work for a company with a UK office then they can get one for you by stating that it would be very difficult to find someone locally to fill the vacancy. (Which is likely if you’ve been working for them for a few years and they need someone with lots of experience).  If you work for an overseas government in their diplomatic service then you can get a diplomatic visa but this gives no permanent residence rights, unlike 5 years’ worth of work permits. Getting work rights in the UK (probably Europe also) is virtually impossible without a company sponsor.  The only exception is if your country has a ‘working holiday’ agreement with the UK whereby you may come for perhaps 1 or 2 years to work, although you are not supposed to engage in any ‘professional’ employment. phil

Response:

hello everyone! i am thinking about moving to either london, spain or amsterdam for a year starting next september.   which of those three (or any other country) would be the ideal place to live…considering work, housing/apartment and social aspects.   also, could anyone recommend a good site to check out apartments to rent?   thanks! kevin

Response:

i am thinking about moving to either london, spain or amsterdam for a year starting next september. which of those three (or any other country) would be the ideal place to live…considering work, housing/apartment and social aspects. also, could anyone recommend a good site to check out apartments to rent?

London, spain and amsterdam are completely different cities… I mean you have to tell us what you plan do for a living, what kind of job you are looking for in Europe. Nicolas

Response:

— i am thinking about moving to either london, spain or amsterdam for a year — starting next september. — — which of those three (or any other country) would be the ideal place to — live…considering work, housing/apartment and social aspects. — — also, could anyone recommend a good site to check out apartments to rent? — –London, spain and amsterdam are completely different cities… I mean you –have to tell us what you plan do for a living, what kind of job you are –looking for in Europe. Spain is by the way a country… — If you don’t like my attitude – Great! That means it’s working.

Response:

sorry about that….i am 23 and currently working at a New Media and Production company in NYC.  i am looking for a job in sales & marketing.   London, spain and amsterdam are completely different cities… I mean you have to tell us what you plan do for a living, what kind of job you are looking for in Europe.

’til then, kevin. < < < <

"People who call jam band music boring can be like people who call baseball boring. They often just don’t make the effort to hear and see the inner game." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -< < < <

Response:

hello everyone! i am thinking about moving to either london, spain or amsterdam for a year starting next september. which of those three (or any other country) would be the ideal place to live…considering work, housing/apartment and social aspects. also, could anyone recommend a good site to check out apartments to rent?

Please note that if you are not a citizen of one of the EEA countries, you will need a residence permit and a work permit if you want to work. It is *not* easy to get a work permit and you need to be sponsored by a company. For a residence permit you need to be relatively wealthy. Your question can not be answered without knowing more about you. What do you like to do, which languages can you speak, etc. Sjoerd

Response:

sorry about that….i am 23 and currently working at a New Media and Production company in NYC.  i am looking for a job in sales & marketing.

Job market in London is quite tough at the moment. The all banking industry is suffering a lot, sales and marketing are following the same trend. Getting a work permit in London is also a point to consider. If your company can send you somewhere, it’s different, but if you go on your own, try to find a job without a work permit, forget it right now. Flat in London are as expensive as Manhattan. (1 bedroom flat around 1000

Question:

those who have read my last two posts may think that I had a miserable time in France the last two weeks, they would be wrong. One of the joys was escaping the rain in Lyon and finding Villefranche. Next to the hustle and incredible crush of humanity in Nice, Villefranche is a relative island of serenity (though not nearly such as nearby Cap St. Jean Ferrat, but who among us can actually afford Cap Ferrat?????) We stayed fortuitously at the Hotel Versailles, a good value with balconies over looking the bay and across to the afford mentioned Cap. At 700FRF we thought the room to be an excellent value. It could use an update or two but the maintenance is up to date and the personnel helpful and pleasant. The hotel has a restaurant with average quality food. We were really expecting great seafood but found that lacking in Villefranche (The Versailles is one of four listed restaurants in the Michelin Guide though they are all 2 fork listings)

Response:

<< Villefranche is a relative island of serenity (though not nearly such as nearby Cap St. Jean Ferrat, but who among us can actually afford Cap Ferrat?????) To be fair to Cap Ferrat, my wife and I have for several years rented a wonderful and roomy apartment with balcony overlooking the sea and the harbor at Saint Jean. The cost comes to about $1000 for a fortnight (half month). Not too bad — $70 a day.

Response:

That sounds divine. I was, of course, thinking of the hotel costs in season.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << Villefranche is a relative island of serenity (though not nearly such as nearby Cap St. Jean Ferrat, but who among us can actually afford Cap Ferrat?????) To be fair to Cap Ferrat, my wife and I have for several years rented a wonderful and roomy apartment with balcony overlooking the sea and the harbor at Saint Jean. The cost comes to about $1000 for a fortnight (half month). Not too bad — $70 a day.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That sounds divine. I was, of course, thinking of the hotel costs in season. << Villefranche is a relative island of serenity (though not nearly such as nearby Cap St. Jean Ferrat, but who among us can actually afford Cap Ferrat?????) To be fair to Cap Ferrat, my wife and I have for several years rented a wonderful and roomy apartment with balcony overlooking the sea and the harbor at Saint Jean. The cost comes to about $1000 for a fortnight (half month). Not too bad — $70 a day.

At St.Jean cap Ferrat there are some inexpenive as well as expensive recommendations, unbiased you can find on the page of my web site, Cap Ferrat section. It’s a three series articles,   with everything in and on it, like the Ephruissi villa , visit and history. The particular page for the St.Jean Cap Ferrat site is http://www.jack-travel.com/CoteAzur/CoteAzurhtml/CapFerratDroite.htm The hotel recommendations are at http://www.jack-travel.com/CoteAzur/CoteAzurhtml/St.JeanCapFerratrest… The Ephrussi villa is to visit on http://www.jack-travel.com/CoteAzur/CoteAzurhtml/CapFerrat1.htm

Jack Visit my personal website where you’ll find my travel tips, hotel suggestions, and restaurant reviews for Paris, most regions of France, Belgium, Amsterdam and Venice. http://www.jack-travel.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

those who have read my last two posts may think that I had a miserable time in France the last two weeks, they would be wrong. One of the joys was escaping the rain in Lyon and finding Villefranche. Next to the hustle and incredible crush of humanity in Nice, Villefranche is a relative island of serenity (though not nearly such as nearby Cap St. Jean Ferrat, but who among us can actually afford Cap Ferrat?????) We stayed fortuitously at the Hotel Versailles, a good value with balconies over looking the bay and across to the afford mentioned Cap. At 700FRF we thought the room to be an excellent value. It could use an update or two but the maintenance is up to date and the personnel helpful and pleasant. The hotel has a restaurant with average quality food. We were really expecting great seafood but found that lacking in Villefranche (The Versailles is one of four listed restaurants in the Michelin Guide though they are all 2 fork listings)

Response:

<< Villefranche is a relative island of serenity (though not nearly such as nearby Cap St. Jean Ferrat, but who among us can actually afford Cap Ferrat?????) To be fair to Cap Ferrat, my wife and I have for several years rented a wonderful and roomy apartment with balcony overlooking the sea and the harbor at Saint Jean. The cost comes to about $1000 for a fortnight (half month). Not too bad — $70 a day.

Response:

That sounds divine. I was, of course, thinking of the hotel costs in season.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << Villefranche is a relative island of serenity (though not nearly such as nearby Cap St. Jean Ferrat, but who among us can actually afford Cap Ferrat?????) To be fair to Cap Ferrat, my wife and I have for several years rented a wonderful and roomy apartment with balcony overlooking the sea and the harbor at Saint Jean. The cost comes to about $1000 for a fortnight (half month). Not too bad — $70 a day.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That sounds divine. I was, of course, thinking of the hotel costs in season. << Villefranche is a relative island of serenity (though not nearly such as nearby Cap St. Jean Ferrat, but who among us can actually afford Cap Ferrat?????) To be fair to Cap Ferrat, my wife and I have for several years rented a wonderful and roomy apartment with balcony overlooking the sea and the harbor at Saint Jean. The cost comes to about $1000 for a fortnight (half month). Not too bad — $70 a day.

At St.Jean cap Ferrat there are some inexpenive as well as expensive recommendations, unbiased you can find on the page of my web site, Cap Ferrat section. It’s a three series articles,   with everything in and on it, like the Ephruissi villa , visit and history. The particular page for the St.Jean Cap Ferrat site is http://www.jack-travel.com/CoteAzur/CoteAzurhtml/CapFerratDroite.htm The hotel recommendations are at http://www.jack-travel.com/CoteAzur/CoteAzurhtml/St.JeanCapFerratrest… The Ephrussi villa is to visit on http://www.jack-travel.com/CoteAzur/CoteAzurhtml/CapFerrat1.htm

Jack Visit my personal website where you’ll find my travel tips, hotel suggestions, and restaurant reviews for Paris, most regions of France, Belgium, Amsterdam and Venice. http://www.jack-travel.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response: