Question:

I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES?  I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

Hi Jack, Oops! I guess I should consider a different salutation when responding to a post about air travel.  However, in a more serious vein, it would probably be a god idea to ask your questions of the folks at CAL.  Earlier this year, I called to redeem miles for our flights to Vancouver and back from San Diego, and the helpful reservation rep told me about a "special deal" they had going at that time.  If we were willing to fly on CAL’s partner airlines, we could fly first class for the same number of redeemed miles as coach on CAL.  We flew to Vancouver on Northwest and from San Diego on Delta, even though we were using Continental Miles.  Perhaps you could also expand your choice of destinations by using flights on "partner airlines"?       Ray in NH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES?  I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

You get a much better response if you went to a FREQUENT FLIER ng. www.frequentflier.com or www.flyertalk.com, then goto the CO area to talk. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jack, Oops! I guess I should consider a different salutation when responding to a post about air travel.  However, in a more serious vein, it would probably be a god idea to ask your questions of the folks at CAL.  Earlier this year, I called to redeem miles for our flights to Vancouver and back from San Diego, and the helpful reservation rep told me about a "special deal" they had going at that time.  If we were willing to fly on CAL’s partner airlines, we could fly first class for the same number of redeemed miles as coach on CAL.  We flew to Vancouver on Northwest and from San Diego on Delta, even though we were using Continental Miles.  Perhaps you could also expand your choice of destinations by using flights on "partner airlines"?       Ray in NH I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES?  I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES?  I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

Hi Jack, Oops! I guess I should consider a different salutation when responding to a post about air travel.  However, in a more serious vein, it would probably be a god idea to ask your questions of the folks at CAL.  Earlier this year, I called to redeem miles for our flights to Vancouver and back from San Diego, and the helpful reservation rep told me about a "special deal" they had going at that time.  If we were willing to fly on CAL’s partner airlines, we could fly first class for the same number of redeemed miles as coach on CAL.  We flew to Vancouver on Northwest and from San Diego on Delta, even though we were using Continental Miles.  Perhaps you could also expand your choice of destinations by using flights on "partner airlines"?       Ray in NH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES?  I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

You get a much better response if you went to a FREQUENT FLIER ng. www.frequentflier.com or www.flyertalk.com, then goto the CO area to talk. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jack, Oops! I guess I should consider a different salutation when responding to a post about air travel.  However, in a more serious vein, it would probably be a god idea to ask your questions of the folks at CAL.  Earlier this year, I called to redeem miles for our flights to Vancouver and back from San Diego, and the helpful reservation rep told me about a "special deal" they had going at that time.  If we were willing to fly on CAL’s partner airlines, we could fly first class for the same number of redeemed miles as coach on CAL.  We flew to Vancouver on Northwest and from San Diego on Delta, even though we were using Continental Miles.  Perhaps you could also expand your choice of destinations by using flights on "partner airlines"?       Ray in NH I HAVE ENOUGH MILES TO FLY TO EUROPE ON A UPGRADE TO EUROPE (50.000 RT) BESIDES FRANKFURT, AMSTERDAM, ROME, WHAT OTHER CITYS CAN I FLY AND USE THE MILES?  I AM TALL AND OVERWEIGHT

Response:

Question:

We’ve found best prices at : www.airlineconsolidator.com www.economytravel.com www.flights.com Had good service from the first two. The ticket we got from www.flights.com was changed after being confirmed leaving us with an 8 hour layover at Newark. HTH Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – could someone point me in the right direction for cheap tickets from Memphis (TN) to London Heathrow, Paris or Amsterdam ? thanks

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could someone point me in the right direction for cheap tickets from Memphis (TN) to London Heathrow, Paris or Amsterdam ? thanks

Response:

could someone point me in the right direction for cheap tickets from Memphis (TN) to London Heathrow, Paris or Amsterdam?

If your flexible in your travel dates, check with http://www.travelocity.com There is an option to look for the cheapest fare over a period of time, which will give you a good idea of what is available.

Response:

Christopher: set up a "deal detector" for each city at Orbitz (www.orbitz.com/dealdetector).  It will not find consolidator tickets (http://www.travel-library.com/air-travel/consolidators.html) but it’s a good place to start.  I have suggestions on my web site about how/where to buy your ticket after you’ve shopped for the best deal. Hope this helps, Bob Cowen The Internet Travel Guru (TM) www.InternetTravelTips.com

could someone point me in the right direction for cheap tickets from Memphis (TN) to London Heathrow, Paris or Amsterdam ? thanks

Response:

Christopher . . . Contact me privately. 007 — Bill E. Burk Publisher, Elvis World Magazine [Remove "NOSP" from my e-mail address]

Response:

Question:

Thanks, AJC.  It took a few sittings to write the report, but I’m glad you and others enjoyed reading it.

Ok, ok, as one of the ‘others’: I liked your detailed posting as well I will also include a thank you letter for the staff of NWA 40 on that flight as well in my correspondence – I’ll also request that a copy of the thank you is passed onto the employees working the flight

Ehm, doubtful? Aren’t cabin attendants always shifting flights and can even pick out their flight-schedule every other week or so? Greetz,

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks, AJC.  It took a few sittings to write the report, but I’m glad you and others enjoyed reading it. Ok, ok, as one of the ‘others’: I liked your detailed posting as well I will also include a thank you letter for the staff of NWA 40 on that flight as well in my correspondence – I’ll also request that a copy of the thank you is passed onto the employees working the flight Ehm, doubtful? Aren’t cabin attendants always shifting flights and can even pick out their flight-schedule every other week or so? Greetz,

I have the name of one of the cabin staff plus the airline also keeps track of cabin staff on particular flights.  When I write thank you letters I usually try to make an effort that it somehow reaches the individual(s) involved and/or their direct manager or supervisor so that it has an effect. It’s difficult to do in the airline industry, but I’ve had some sucesses and in one instance, I had a repeat crew whom I had sent a thank you letter about, which got to them via their supervisor, and they thanked me on the plane when I saw them again.  On certain routes in the past (i.e. when I used to commute between Louisville & Phoenix), it’s been common for me to get repeat crews that have gotten to know me. Thanks for the note. Regards, Steve

Response:

Greetings – I just returned from a very pleasant trip to Barcelona and have a trip report I’d like to share with everyone, or anyone whom may be interested http://www.io.com/~hcexres/tcm1603/acchtml/gram2.html#procase

Hey, inappropriate or not this is the first time I understood this point of grammar  and I’m <shameless self-promotion a published author </shameless self-promotion.

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Hey, yourself, published author…..that is why you hire "proofreaders". We sure don’t expect your brains to be able to educate, entertain or whatever you publish and be able to know good grammar too!  Who, whom, to, two, too are, or are many of the grammar mistakes made quite frequently by many.  Glad you learned something from that poster today. Mary

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Thanks so much for taking the time to write such an excellent, concise and informative report, Steve.  Sure makes "me" want to go to Barcelona! I will remember that NW flight you got such good treatment on and maybe we will luck out and be able to get it too.  I wonder if all FAs really understand what a big part they play in the type of flight memories we have of our trips.  They are truly the "goodwill" ambassadors for their airline when they serve well. Mary  

Response:

It is not actually EU, but Schengen which is the EU with a few exceptions plus a few additions. The upper level of the D pier plus the C and B piers are Schengen (domestic if you like). The D pier is like that so that an aircraft can come in from non-Schengen (the UK for example) and depart to Schengen (Spain for example) without having to move gates.

AJC – Thank you for your kind reply and the information.  If you don’t mind me asking, what is your email address [you could email me with it if you'd like, just remove the obvious], as I’d like to ask you a couple of questions via email (that would be off-topic for the group) concerning The Netherlands.   I’m not sure if the above email address is valid and I’d rather have a valid address before I take time to compose an email. Schengen is new since I’ve flown to / through AMS last.   I really like the setup at AMS; it’s quite nice and it makes a lot of sense unlike some large US Airports.  Last time I was at AMS, they had security at every gate (no central checkpoint) and there was no passport control unless you actually entered The Netherlands.    I even recall clearing security at a gate just to fly AMS-BRU on a previous trip through AMS several years ago.   IIRC, it was also a gate in the D pier that I used for the AMS-BRU flight and the top level didn’t exist at that time (??). Seems AMS has deteriorated a bit in some aspects but also seems as if it’s been remodeled some since I’ve been there last (??).  As you use AMS frequently (or more than I do), perhaps you can comment on this observation. Regardless, very nice airport and since I am using NWA more and more (they are more or less my carrier of choice right now for FF reasons) I will likely be through AMS more often in the future when traveling to Europe. The only drawback, IMHO, of flying through AMS is US Customs upon return seems to be strict with those flights upon return to the states.  I *always* get the full search by US Customs coming inbound from AMS, but it rarely ever happens returning from anywhere else.  It was primarily single white males (20-35 age group) and single minority women of about the same age group, *from my observations*, whom get pulled aside for extra attention [Use of the word single meaning traveling alone].  I spoke with another fellow while waiting in line for the US Customs "search" after being pulled aside and he said it happens to him every single time as well when he comes in from AMS, but if he comes in from another European city, he’s never given a second look.  Anyone else have comments / experience with US Customs and whom they seem to profile when coming in from AMS? While I don’t mind going through the full search and questioning as I am not importing drugs or anything illegal, it takes extra time and it is a hassle, just as the secondary TSA screening can be when one becomes a "selectee". I guess I really can’t complain and have no reason to do so, as they’re only doing their job with the "War on Drugs" [which is a joke, IMHO] – but at the same time, US Customs is known to seize large amounts of Ecstasy and other illegal drugs.  When they have successful busts, that is less "E" that makes it to the clubs in the US and less "E" that kids are getting into.  "E" is a big problem, especially here in Louisville, with high-school age kids and in the dance clubs.  From what I understand, a lot of Ecstasy is imported to the US from The Netherlands, and "E" is a serious problem here in the states.  It’s one of the few illegal drugs that is known to cause permananant brain damagage and so many kids under 21 are using it here plus it’s a big "club drug" at the nightclubs, especially within the gay community.  I don’t mind so much if adults use it and make the choice to do so [they are the ones whom made the decision and must deal with any consequences], but it’s so dangerous for high school kids (or younger) whom don’t know what they’re getting into. Those seats are great if you can get them. Maybe your NW status helped there.

Yes, I love the 2 x 3 seats in the KLM 737s.  Very nice and comfortable. I’m not sure how they assign them, but I’m sure my NWA status didn’t hurt .. plus they may have taken into account I was on a long itinerrary and was booked in a higher class of service.  Not the lowest class of service (still non-refundable) but not the most expensive either.  If they went by revenue or ticket class, I’m sure there were others on the flight booked in a lower ticket class. Do you have any idea how they normally assign those seats or is there anything that gets you those seats over the back when you travel on the KLM 737s?   It was pleasant to have those seats (had them each way) and the extra space.  The KLM service was quite good on those flights and the FA’s very friendly, especially on the BCN-AMS leg.  The service was better than US standards on the AMS-BCN / BCN-AMS flights when compared to US domestic flights.   Too bad service on all US domestic flights can’t be like that consistently.  As with all air travel, you get some good flights and some bad ones, but I really liked the Intra-Europe level of service on those flights given the distance (2 hrs / 711 miles).   Any domestic flight in the US of that distance would be a simple beverage service with perhaps the exception of some flights on Continental, where service tends to be good on shorter flights. Flight path on this flight took us out over the Mediterranean Sea (nice window view) and then up into some cloud cover where we turned North. The flight then took us over the Pyrenees, which provided some very nice views of the snow-capped mountains.  We then proceeded north and the flight path took us to the west of Paris and we continued north until we came along the French coastline and followed the coastline / English Channel down into Amsterdam.  The views of the coast were beautiful as well as a perfect view of the French & Dutch countryside and Hey don’t forget the Belgian countryside too:-)

Very true, I cannot forget Belgium.  With my window seat it was absolutely beautiful seeing the countryside of France, Belgium, and The Netherlands.  I have some great pictures of the Pyrenees that I took from out the airplane window on the BCN-AMS leg.  Flights like this bring back memories of what aviation used to be like in the states.  The pilot was even very chatty giving progress reports, in three languages nevertheless.  I only understood the English and Spanish announcements (the Spanish announcements were more simple and less detailed while the English ones were more detailed – As I do not know Dutch, I do not know if that announcement may have been more detailed or any different).   On the outbound we had a female pilot whom talked quite a bit too on the PA about flight progress and other things. As far as my pictures, I just loaded them onto a networked hard drive on my PC in the other room from my digital camera.  I plan on starting a website with pictures from my travels starting with this trip (I’ll probably toss in pictures from my past few trips to San Diego and other locations as well). I’ll post the URL when I get a chance to assemble the website this weekend. lounge and assigned us colored cards for when to board the plane. [Question for AJC or anyone very familiar with AMS: Doesn't AMS have a central security check-point now?  Or do they do a full security check on certain International flights to enter the departure lounge?]. They do have central security, but you experienced the additional security for US flights.

Thanks for the information again, as I wasn’t quite sure if it was additional security or what it was.  It’s good they had the additional security in place as I felt the security at BCN was quite relaxed.  I don’t know if it was relaxed based on profiling (me being a younger caucasian male vs. an Arab looking individual) or how it works in BCN — perhaps just relaxed in general.  The security at BCN reminded me of the "old" security here in the states where the metal detectors / checkpoint was just a quick formality. Security at AMS was more thourough to enter the departure lounge for the flight to DTW.   Interesting how someone had commented (I believe Sjored) that the additional security is done for High Risk destinations (US, Israel)… Interesting that the US is now considered "high risk" – but I agree, especially in light of the on-going war and how the Bush Administration is pissing off much of the Muslim world. I must say I have a much better insight to the European view of the US, the war, the Bush Administration, and many other things by taking this trip.  I hope other American’s going overseas keep an open mind get the chance to talk to protesters and locals and learn more too about their own country and how it is viewed from abroad.  I didn’t meet or see very many Americans in Barcelona on this trip either other than another American, whom was from Provincetown, MA, which stayed one night at the Bed & Breakfast I was at. Most foriegners I met were primarily British and a few Germans while in Spain.   Most of the British I met were for the war, which I found interesting, but everyone else, and I mean everyone else, was completely against it.  On Friday evening in Barcelona it was interesting to see the protests (everyone would go out and bang pots and pans every night around 10:00pm) plus there was a protest where they blocked traffic on the Rambles. Everyone just abondoned their cars and no one seemed upset that protesters blocked traffic – in fact, most people in their auto’s were honking their horns to the beat of the pots & pans banging.   I also picked up lots of literature and some stickers and brought them back (some of which I will scan in and put on the web). Anyway – enough politics, but as an … read more »

Response:

The Iberia staff was extremely rude in Barcelona and it was difficult to deal with them.  Their computers were down and they were clearly frustrated with all the passengers whose luggage did not show up.

Iberia ground staff seem to be obnoxious wherever I encounter them. They must all go on some special training course. — Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings – I just returned from a very pleasant trip to Barcelona and have a trip report I’d like to share with everyone, or anyone whom may be interested Thanks for the interesting trip report. AMS = Amsterdam Schipol Schiphol. Manchester as we crossed into the UK and then across the English channel The North Sea.  During dinner I spoke with my seatmate, whom is a German working in the US.  He had some horror stories about US Immigrations denying him entry to the US on a previous trip because the immigrations claimed he overstayed his Visa when in fact he never did per what he told me.   He was also telling me that co-workers of his had similar problems and have been deported on more than one occasion because of the INS having screwed up records.  He also said his company was talking about requesting all employees use Lufthansa only to fly to/from the states whenever possible as a protest. I don’t understand. Why would one fly Lufthansa to protest about lack of service by the INS?

It was more to protest the USA in general by using LH only, instead of USA airlines.   The idea behind it in theory at least, as it was explained to me, is to make US commercial industry hurt (not use US airlines) and hopefully commercial industry will put pressure on the US Govt to change their actions.   These are individuals traveling on business conducting business legitamately inside the USA with a big company and they are getting deported because of INS mistakes (per what I’m told).   I believe it, as I’ve had many individuals tell me similiar horror stories about being deported by the INS lately because of the INS having incorrect records. Also – thanks for the corrections / clarifications.    The Schengen system is new since I’ve flown into or through Amsterdam last.  In the past I never had to use passport control at AMS unless I was entering The Netherlands; otherwise I would just stay in-transit until arrival at my country of destination. Cheers, Steve P.S. The Brits on my return flight had also had INS problems in the past and almost came close to being deported once.  Apparently it’s much more common than I thought for a legitamate US visitor to get deported because of INS errors, especially since "The war on terrorism" has started.  If this is the case, it’s really going to hurt the USA.

Response:

Greetings – I just returned from a very pleasant trip to Barcelona and have a trip report I’d like to share with everyone, or anyone whom may be interested

Thanks for the interesting trip report. AMS = Amsterdam Schipol

Schiphol. Manchester as we crossed into the UK and then across the English channel

The North Sea.  During dinner I spoke with my seatmate, whom is a German working in the US.  He had some horror stories about US Immigrations denying him entry to the US on a previous trip because the immigrations claimed he overstayed his Visa when in fact he never did per what he told me.   He was also telling me that co-workers of his had similar problems and have been deported on more than one occasion because of the INS having screwed up records.  He also said his company was talking about requesting all employees use Lufthansa only to fly to/from the states whenever possible as a protest.

I don’t understand. Why would one fly Lufthansa to protest about lack of service by the INS? a closed lounge and then proceeded to passport control and officially entered the EU.

Passport control is for Schengen, which is the EU MINUS UK and Ireland PLUS Norway and Iceland.   My connecting flight was out of "D83" and I had to go up one level and walk through a long walkway to reach the gate.  Upon reaching the gate, you then take stairs down into the departure lounge.  The departure lounge was sealed off from the walkway on the departure level (my guess is the top floor is used by passengers inside the EU

Schengen. to reach the gate – while the walkway on the departure level is used for incoming passengers or passengers whom have not entered the EU

Schengen.  - perhaps someone familiar with AMS could comment). Your guess is correct. On the flight I purchased a KLM Model 747-400 1:250 scale for 11,50 Euro when they did duty free.

They call it duty-free, but for intra-EU flights all duties have to be paid!   I then went to currency exchange and dumped the rest of my Euro’s into USD.  I got a poor exchange rate, but luckily I didn’t have many Euros left.   My Euro coins, which currency exchange does not accept,

Are you sure? ABN AMRO at Schiphol certainly accepts euro coins.  [Question for AJC or anyone very familiar with AMS: Doesn't AMS have a central security check-point now?  Or do they do a full security check on certain International flights to enter the departure lounge?].

They have central security and additional security for high-risk destinations. (US, Israel) Sjoerd

Response:

Greetings – I just returned from a very pleasant trip to Barcelona and have a trip report I’d like to share with everyone, or anyone whom may be interested The flights were booked in early March on the Northwest Airlines website www.nwa.com and I had flights on NWA (both mainline and Mesaba/NW Airlink) and KLM. Airport Codes involved: SDF = Louisville Intl Airport – Louisville, KY DTW = Detroit Metro Airport – Detroit, MI AMS = Amsterdam Schipol – Amsterdam, Netherlands BCN = Barcelona Intl Airport – Barcelona, Spain March 27, 2003 (Thursday) I received a text page on my cell-phone at 5:00am with a message indicating my outbound flight, NW 3407 from SDF-DTW, operated by Mesaba using RJ-85 equipment, had been cancelled.   I then went ahead and called Northwest and they gave me two options – one to take an earlier flight to DTW and one to take a later flight and re-do my entire schedule to where I would arrive in BCN in late afternoon instead of early morning.  I elected for the earlier SDF-DTW flight and figured I would just cope with a long layover in DTW, as I wanted to arrive in BCN as early as possible. After getting off the phone, I went to the nwa.com website and plugged in a flight listing from SDF-DTW and it indicated that NW 3407 was cancelled due to equipment replacement.  I then noticed a new flight, NW 2703 with the same departure time as NW 3407.  It appears that Mesaba/NW Airlink had cancelled NW 3407 and replaced it with NW 2703.  The message given for the cancellation of NW 3407 was "cancelled due to aircraft substitution".  I then called Northwest again and got booked onto the new 11:15am flight.  The new flight was on a Saab 340 turbo-prop instead of an RJ-85 jet. I arrived at SDF 2 hours early as suggested by NWA and I checked in around 9:25am.  There was no line for check-in.  They checked me in, gave me my boarding passes, tagged my luggage through to BCN.  I was then off to the TSA to give them my suitcase to be scanned by the CTX.  I politely asked them if they would seal my suitcase with a ziptie, which they did, after my suitcase cleared CTX security.  My suitcase cleared with no problem and did not setoff a ‘false-positive’ for once. [I packed light and only had clothing in my suitcase]. I then proceeded to the security check-point where the line was minimal.   I wore some Teva Sandals instead of my shoes, as the Teva’s have no metal in them.  I kept a pair of shoes inside my carry-on, a backpack for this trip. Cleared security with no problems and no secondary searches.  The TSA was polite and professional this time compared to my previous trip via SDF security. NW 2703 * SDF-DTW * 11:15am – 12:45pm * Saab 340 TurboProp The inbound flight arrived around 11:00am and we promptly boarded as soon as the passengers had deplaned.  I had seat 3A, a window.  My carry-on, a small backpack, fit underneath the seat in front of me without any problem.  Most people had large carry-on’s and had to gate-check them.   We departed a few minutes late and the flight was a bit choppy with both departure and landing.  The flight was about half-full and overall was uneventful.  We pulled into the last / furthest gate in the C concourse in DTW at the "WorldGateway" terminal.   There was some construction there and it looked like they were starting to build an addition to concourse C to make it longer.  Concourse C services the Saab TurboProps and the CRJ flights by Mesaba and Express I Airlines (NW Airlink) while Concourse B services the Mesaba RJ-85’s and all Continental flights. http://www.nwa.com/travel/trave/airports/DTW.shtml The above is a link to the airport map of the DTW "WorldGateway" facility. My next flight was departing out of gate A36, in the main A concourse.  To get there, you must go through an underground walkway with funky neon lights similar to the tunnel at ORD which connects the United terminals.   As I had a few hours on layover, I had lunch at the Budweiser restaurant and then went into the Westin Hotel bar, which is connected to the A concourse, to have a few smokes and some coffee to drink.   I had to re-enter security, which was easy, as there is a security checkpoint for the hotel, which had no line.  Again, the TSA was friendly and I breezed through security.   The Westin Hotel and it’s security checkpoint to enter the terminal is right in front of gate A36. NW 40 / KLM 6040 * DTW-AMS * 4:00pm – 5:55am +1 * DC-10-30 Boarding started shortly after 3:00pm.  I waited until general boarding for my row, as I wasn’t keen on boarding early with my NW Elite status.  I had a window seat towards the end of the first coach cabin in the DC-10.   The DC-10 was clean and the interior was well kept-up compared to other NWA DC-10’s I’ve been on for domestic flights.  My seatmate was a German whom was living and working in Detroit.  The flight was loaded and the cabin door closed a bit early and we were off the ground in no time. The flight-path took us north out of Detroit towards Lake Heron where we made a turn to the east/northeast and started to cross Canada.  We kept to the north of the St. Lawrence and made our Atlantic crossing just south of Greenland and Iceland.  Our flight path took us over the northern part of Ireland, then just north of Belfast and then north of Liverpool and Manchester as we crossed into the UK and then across the English channel for a perfect (and early) landing in Amsterdam. The flight crew was absolutely wonderful, one of the best flight crews I have ever encountered and the service was great.  This was the best flight and flight-crew of the entire trip.  After take-off we were served dinner with a choice of chicken or pasta, I went for the chicken.  The chicken is ok, but not fantastic.  Typical airplane food. Prior to landing, we are served a light breakfast.   The flight attendants were very attentive, energetic, humorous, and always had a smile, even upon arrival at the end of the flight.  It’s almost hard to put into words how great the Northwest crew was, but simply put, I wish I could have this crew on every flight. I slept most of the flight in-between meals.  During dinner I spoke with my seatmate, whom is a German working in the US.  He had some horror stories about US Immigrations denying him entry to the US on a previous trip because the immigrations claimed he overstayed his Visa when in fact he never did per what he told me.   He was also telling me that co-workers of his had similar problems and have been deported on more than one occasion because of the INS having screwed up records.  He also said his company was talking about requesting all employees use Lufthansa only to fly to/from the states whenever possible as a protest. Anyway – we arrived early into Amsterdam and promptly deplaned upon pulling into our gate in what I believe was the E concourse.   My connecting flight was out of a D gate and I had about a two hour layover.  Most places were closed at 5:30am in the morning so I had a smoke at a closed lounge and then proceeded to passport control and officially entered the EU.  My connecting flight was out of "D83" and I had to go up one level and walk through a long walkway to reach the gate.  Upon reaching the gate, you then take stairs down into the departure lounge.  The departure lounge was sealed off from the walkway on the departure level (my guess is the top floor is used by passengers inside the EU to reach the gate – while the walkway on the departure level is used for incoming passengers or passengers whom have not entered the EU – perhaps someone familiar with AMS could comment).  Even though it said gate D82, the signage on the outside said D53 (?).  If you notice on the map below (see link), D83 and D53 are the same gate. The following is a map of the AMS airport: http://www.nwa.com/travel/trave/airports/AMS.shtml March 28, 2003 (Friday) KLM 1665 * AMS-BCN * 7:10am – 9:25am * Boeing 737-300 In the departure lounge they started boarding by collecting everyone’s boarding passes and have all passengers go from one side of the departure lounge to the other.  After all passengers boarding passes are collected and all passengers are on the other side of the lounge, they open the door to board the aircraft.  All rows at once.   I was assigned a seat in row 8, which was configured 2 x 3, a business class seat, but the business class portion of the aircraft was only the first few rows.  I was assigned a window seat on the 2 side, but a couple of passengers were separated and wanted to sit together, so I gave up the window seat for an aisle seat on the 3 side. The flight pushed back promptly and off we went.  Flying time was just under 2 hours.  The route took us south over France, over Paris and down into Barcelona.  A snack was served, a choice of Turkey sandwich or Cheese.  I took the Turkey along with some coffee to get the caffeine into my system. Service was ok, nothing special, but not bad either.  All announcements were done in Dutch, English, and Spanish, which was interesting.  There was cloud cover the entire distance and some moderate turbulence upon decent into Barcelona.  Several passengers towards the back of the plane made some noise (not quite screaming, but more like a "Woah") as we hit a few significant pockets of turbulence.   We had a cross-wind landing, but it was smooth. On the aircraft I had a good conversation with the passenger next to me in Spanish about the war and how he was upset with Prime Minister Aznar as well as Bush & Blair.  We talked about how the Bush administration gave the contract to Cheney’s Halliburton company in Iraq.   It was a pleasant conversation and we seemed to agree on some things and disagree on others, but it was quite pleasant and the guy thought it was nice to talk with an intelligent young person from the USA (per his words). After landing we pulled into the gate and everyone quickly deplaned.  At baggage claim my checked luggage did not arrive – … read more »

Response:

Question:

Has anyone gotten a list fo what planes and routes they would be cutting ?

At first I was worried because they mentioned they would be dropping some long haul routes, but turns out they’re only shedding 17 regional jets, 2 MD-83s and 1 A-320. The press release can be found on their website: http://www.swiss.com/index/sw-nw-pr-press-releases-03.htm?newsid=20364 Raf

Response:

25.02.2003 SWISS cuts fleet, route network and jobs A package of emergency measures proposed by the executive management was approved by the SWISS Board of Directors on 24 February 2003. In Zurich, Geneva, Basel, Bern and Lugano, destinations will be reduced and routes discontinued. The fleet is to be cut by 20 aircraft: 17 regional jets, two Boeing MD-83s and one Airbus A321. These measures will also mean the loss of around 700 jobs. Swiss International Air Lines believes it is essential to react to the worsening economic situation by adjusting its route network and reducing its fleet. The changes will come into effect with the summer timetable from 30 March 2003. The enduringly gloomy economic climate and deep crisis in the global aviation industry are having a serious negative impact on business development at SWISS and have forced the executive management to take swift action. Despite a higher market share, revenues and passenger numbers are in sharp decline on the European network. The decisions taken last November were based on the figures for August/September 2002. Six months on, the situation has changed dramatically. A good load factor was enough to compensate for the fluctuations in yield (revenues per seat). Following the seasonal downturn in the number of passengers in November, however, this curve fell sharply against budget in December (-5%) and January (-10%) and continues to fall. Regional and short-haul routes are negative whilst long-haul routes are still performing to budget. The generalised slump in the economy is reflected in the airline sector by a change in consumer behaviour. Former business passengers keen to make savings now tend to book Economy class. The forecasts for 2003 remain poor and there is no improvement in sight. Fleet The massive collapse in demand in European air travel makes adjustments to the European fleet capacity essential. SWISS is to take 20 aircraft out of operation. The aircraft involved are one Airbus A321, two Boeing MD-83s and 17 regional jets. This means the SWISS European fleet, including the Airbus A320s, will total maximum 84 aircraft. Zurich In Zurich, capacity adjustments will affect a total of 24 destinations. There will be one extra flight to Warsaw and Stuttgart. Frequencies on routes to London City, Graz, Hanover, Cologne, Nuremberg, Prague, Bucharest, Nice, Munich, Madrid and Barcelona will be reduced. Connections to Salzburg, Sarajevo, Tirana, Toulouse, Jersey, Guernsey, Dresden, Bremen, Turin, Bilbao and G

Question:

Hi all,     Does anyone know if any of the low cost airlines fly between Copenhagen and Amsterdam direct?   I have done a search on the net and drawn a blank. Doesn’t look good.     Any ideas? MM

Response:

   Does anyone know if any of the low cost airlines fly between Copenhagen and Amsterdam direct?   I have done a search on the net and drawn a blank. Doesn’t look good.    Any ideas?

There aren’t any, though KLM and SAS can have a sale now and then You may want to look at a fare to/from Brussels on Virgin Express, or perhaps a EasyJet via London. -Erik

Response:

Does anyone know if any of the low cost airlines fly between Copenhagen and Amsterdam direct?   I have done a search on the net and drawn a blank. Doesn’t look good.

it would probably take less time to take a fast train.

Response:

Hi all,     Does anyone know if any of the low cost airlines fly between Copenhagen and Amsterdam direct?   I have done a search on the net and drawn a blank. Doesn’t look good.     Any ideas? MM

Do the call it ‘The sex and drugs express’?

Response:

Does anyone know if any of the low cost airlines fly between Copenhagen and Amsterdam direct?   I have done a search on the net and drawn a blank. Doesn’t look good. it would probably take less time to take a fast train.

No, such fast trains do not exist. Copenhagen – Amsterdam is about 90 minutes in the air, and (from memory) some 8 hours by train + a ferry crossing. Sjoerd

Response:

Hi all,     Does anyone know if any of the low cost airlines fly between Copenhagen and Amsterdam direct?   I have done a search on the net and drawn a blank. Doesn’t look good.     Any ideas? MM

You might want to check applefares.com — a meta-search engine for European discount airlines.  Click on routes at the right end of the blue bar at the top and you can enter city pairs or any city to/from and get a list of discount airlines flying the route.  The author deserves our gratitude for creating a great service.  Sort of like seatguru.com who has accumulated seat maps and suggestions. tom

Response:

But just remember it covers some, but not all, European discount airlines.

You can also try www.europebyair.com and see if you can route your CPH-AMS trip via Kaunus!

Response:

it would probably take less time to take a fast train. No, such fast trains do not exist. Copenhagen – Amsterdam is about 90 minutes in the air, and (from memory) some 8 hours by train + a ferry crossing.

Fastest route is 10:46, which includes the ferry bit. The landlocked route takes 2 hours longer. It ought to be faster, but the Hamburg – Kolding/Fredericia section has been neglected, as it isn’t a line primarily serving Copenhagen. — Ask me for directions.

Response:

Question:

BTW, I think one of the online booking services has a fare alert where it sends you info on the current prices for you desired flights. Anyone remember which one?

It’s Travelocity, but it only works for a simple round trip, not an open jaw. And I don’t think you get to choose the dates – it just tells you when there is any flight available at or below your chosen price. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

Response:

Oh, well, now that makes more sense… Flying in to one city and out of another will be much more expensive IME. I know some one will correct me if i’m wrong. Paris & Amsterdam are not so far apart, so I would recommend you fly in & out of either one or the other and take the train back.

This is not necessarily true.  If you use the same airline going and coming, you can usually do an open jaw with the fare calculated (in your case) by adding half the round-trip fare for Paris to half the round-trip fare to Amsterdam. GG

Response:

Oh, well, now that makes more sense… Flying in to one city and out of another will be much more expensive IME. I know some one will correct me if i’m wrong. Paris & Amsterdam are not so far apart, so I would recommend you fly in & out of either one or the other and take the train back.

I rarely fly into and out of the same European cities.  I fly "open-jaws" or into Amsterdam for example and home from Paris.  In this example it costs $13 more than flying round-trip PIT-CDG, travel dates being in September. It never costs a lot more to do this but usually just a few dollars depending on what cities are involved and can even be a little less so long as you fly the same airlines for all legs of the trip.  Flying open-jaws saves you money since you won’t have the train fare returning to your gateway city and you save a travel day that can be better spent doing fun things.  It is especially expensive to take the train between Paris and Amsterdam as the premier Thalys trains dominate this route.  If you are going to visit a few different areas flying open-jaws is a no-brainer. Ryan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, well, now that makes more sense… Flying in to one city and out of another will be much more expensive IME. I know some one will correct me if i’m wrong. Paris & Amsterdam are not so far apart, so I would recommend you fly in & out of either one or the other and take the train back. I rarely fly into and out of the same European cities.  I fly "open-jaws" or into Amsterdam for example and home from Paris.  In this example it costs $13 more than flying round-trip PIT-CDG, travel dates being in September. It never costs a lot more to do this but usually just a few dollars depending on what cities are involved and can even be a little less so long as you fly the same airlines for all legs of the trip.  Flying open-jaws saves you money since you won’t have the train fare returning to your gateway city and you save a travel day that can be better spent doing fun things.  It is especially expensive to take the train between Paris and Amsterdam as the premier Thalys trains dominate this route.  If you are going to visit a few different areas flying open-jaws is a no-brainer. Ryan

I know I’d get corrected In fact I do remember once flying into london & out of libson and it was still quite a good price. But I think I used STA (Student Travel) Have you been able to book this via internet sites such as Travelocity?

Response:

I will be flying from America.  Pardon my scatter-brained mind. Will be flying into Amsterdam, out of Paris in either late Aug or early Sept 2003.  Anyone have an idea as to the best time to purchase tix or who to purchase from?  Also, a rough estimate of the cost?

Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you?

Response:

Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you?

Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina.

Response:

Will be flying into Amsterdam, out of Paris in either late Aug or early Sept 2003.  Anyone have an idea as to the best time to purchase tix or who to purchase from?  Also, a rough estimate of the cost?

Response:

Will be flying into Amsterdam, out of Paris in either late Aug or early Sept 2003.  Anyone have an idea as to the best time to purchase tix or who to purchase from?  Also, a rough estimate of the cost?

From London, or Cape Town, or Buenos Aires or Wellington? JohnT

Response:

I will be flying from America.  Pardon my scatter-brained mind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Will be flying into Amsterdam, out of Paris in either late Aug or early Sept 2003.  Anyone have an idea as to the best time to purchase tix or who to purchase from?  Also, a rough estimate of the cost?

Response:

I will be flying from America.  Pardon my scatter-brained mind.

Depends on which city in America. America is a huge country. Even so, hold out to July and keep an eye on Orbitz and other travel related sites to see if they offer any deals for the route you need to fly. You did not say where you’re flying to or from, but check the web site for each airline that flies the route you want to take to see if they have any deals and keep checking at least into July. Get on any of the relevant airlines’ email lists so you get updated on any fare sales.

Response:

I will be flying from America.  Pardon my scatter-brained mind. Depends on which city in America. America is a

continent. — Desmond Coughlan http: // www . zeouane . org

Response:

Oh, well, now that makes more sense… Flying in to one city and out of another will be much more expensive IME. I know some one will correct me if i’m wrong. Paris & Amsterdam are not so far apart, so I would recommend you fly in & out of either one or the other and take the train back. I also recommend you go after the 15th of September if possible as it is usually cheaper (again, I know I will be corrected if this has changed). I like to use travelocity.com as I said earlier. You can put in your destination and then "dates don’t matter" option. The prices you get for spring (travelocity shows only three months aheard) will be slightly more than you get in fall but probably about the same. At least that will give you an idea. Of course, booking as soon as the cheap fares come out is best (I’d about 3 months in advance) and things could change for various reasons so the prices now may be low or higher then what you can get now. For example: I was able on Travelocity.com to get a flight from Raliegh to Paris via Atlanta on Mar 17 returning on the Mar 27 for $324 round trip not including taxes. Currently flights for around September 17/18 ere around $900 for a round trip but that should go down as the airlines see the fligths are not being booked. The cheapest for a one way would be $1400 for the same date. BTW, I think one of the online booking services has a fare alert where it sends you info on the current prices for you desired flights. Anyone remember which one? HTH. Good luck. Emilia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you, Emilia.  Let me rephrase this:  looking for a flight for two, from North Carolina into Amsterdam, back to the US from Paris, in Sept 2003.  I don’t fly often to Europe (abt every 5 yrs) but local travel agents aren’t particularly knowledgeable regarding the best time to book flights.  I had planned to check the internet every few days at expedia or travelocity for a rate.  What I was hoping for from someone experienced in air travel in this group was a little more specifice advice–the name of a particularly good consolidator, a rough estimate of price that I could expect to pay (right now, I believe that a flight would be about $1600 USD and I know that’s not the best price).  I don’t mind booking the flight at any time, I just need to know a reasonable range to be looking at.  Thanks. Huh? The local travel agents can’t help you get a flight? Perhaps I don’t understand your question. You want to get to Amsterdam and back from Paris? What exactly can’t the travel agent help you with? The best time to buy is when you feel you have the best price. There are plenty of online booking services that can help you. Some even offering you the best prices for the next x months. My favorite is travelocity.com but that doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I misunderstood then I’m sorry. "Could you repeat the question, Anne"? North Carolina it is, Raleigh to be exact, and for two people.  Now can someone help me out beyond what local travel agents have told me ("I don’t know, sir")?  Thanks for any advice.   Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you? Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina. Than

Response:

Huh? The local travel agents can’t help you get a flight? Perhaps I don’t understand your question. You want to get to Amsterdam and back from Paris? What exactly can’t the travel agent help you with? The best time to buy is when you feel you have the best price. There are plenty of online booking services that can help you. Some even offering you the best prices for the next x months. My favorite is travelocity.com but that doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I misunderstood then I’m sorry. "Could you repeat the question, Anne"? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – North Carolina it is, Raleigh to be exact, and for two people.  Now can someone help me out beyond what local travel agents have told me ("I don’t know, sir")?  Thanks for any advice.   Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you? Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina.

Response:

Thank you, Emilia.  Let me rephrase this:  looking for a flight for two, from North Carolina into Amsterdam, back to the US from Paris, in Sept 2003.  I don’t fly often to Europe (abt every 5 yrs) but local travel agents aren’t particularly knowledgeable regarding the best time to book flights.  I had planned to check the internet every few days at expedia or travelocity for a rate.  What I was hoping for from someone experienced in air travel in this group was a little more specifice advice–the name of a particularly good consolidator, a rough estimate of price that I could expect to pay (right now, I believe that a flight would be about $1600 USD and I know that’s not the best price).  I don’t mind booking the flight at any time, I just need to know a reasonable range to be looking at.  Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Huh? The local travel agents can’t help you get a flight? Perhaps I don’t understand your question. You want to get to Amsterdam and back from Paris? What exactly can’t the travel agent help you with? The best time to buy is when you feel you have the best price. There are plenty of online booking services that can help you. Some even offering you the best prices for the next x months. My favorite is travelocity.com but that doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I misunderstood then I’m sorry. "Could you repeat the question, Anne"? North Carolina it is, Raleigh to be exact, and for two people.  Now can someone help me out beyond what local travel agents have told me ("I don’t know, sir")?  Thanks for any advice.   Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you? Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina.

Than

Response:

North Carolina it is, Raleigh to be exact, and for two people.  Now can someone help me out beyond what local travel agents have told me ("I don’t know, sir")?  Thanks for any advice.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you? Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina.

Response:

Will be flying into Amsterdam, out of Paris in either late Aug or early Sept 2003.  Anyone have an idea as to the best time to purchase tix or who to purchase from?  Also, a rough estimate of the cost?

Response:

Will be flying into Amsterdam, out of Paris in either late Aug or early Sept 2003.  Anyone have an idea as to the best time to purchase tix or who to purchase from?  Also, a rough estimate of the cost?

From London, or Cape Town, or Buenos Aires or Wellington? JohnT

Response:

I will be flying from America.  Pardon my scatter-brained mind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Will be flying into Amsterdam, out of Paris in either late Aug or early Sept 2003.  Anyone have an idea as to the best time to purchase tix or who to purchase from?  Also, a rough estimate of the cost?

Response:

I will be flying from America.  Pardon my scatter-brained mind. Will be flying into Amsterdam, out of Paris in either late Aug or early Sept 2003.  Anyone have an idea as to the best time to purchase tix or who to purchase from?  Also, a rough estimate of the cost?

Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you?

Response:

Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you?

Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina.

Response:

North Carolina it is, Raleigh to be exact, and for two people.  Now can someone help me out beyond what local travel agents have told me ("I don’t know, sir")?  Thanks for any advice.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you? Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina.

Response:

Huh? The local travel agents can’t help you get a flight? Perhaps I don’t understand your question. You want to get to Amsterdam and back from Paris? What exactly can’t the travel agent help you with? The best time to buy is when you feel you have the best price. There are plenty of online booking services that can help you. Some even offering you the best prices for the next x months. My favorite is travelocity.com but that doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I misunderstood then I’m sorry. "Could you repeat the question, Anne"? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – North Carolina it is, Raleigh to be exact, and for two people.  Now can someone help me out beyond what local travel agents have told me ("I don’t know, sir")?  Thanks for any advice.   Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you? Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina.

Response:

Thank you, Emilia.  Let me rephrase this:  looking for a flight for two, from North Carolina into Amsterdam, back to the US from Paris, in Sept 2003.  I don’t fly often to Europe (abt every 5 yrs) but local travel agents aren’t particularly knowledgeable regarding the best time to book flights.  I had planned to check the internet every few days at expedia or travelocity for a rate.  What I was hoping for from someone experienced in air travel in this group was a little more specifice advice–the name of a particularly good consolidator, a rough estimate of price that I could expect to pay (right now, I believe that a flight would be about $1600 USD and I know that’s not the best price).  I don’t mind booking the flight at any time, I just need to know a reasonable range to be looking at.  Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Huh? The local travel agents can’t help you get a flight? Perhaps I don’t understand your question. You want to get to Amsterdam and back from Paris? What exactly can’t the travel agent help you with? The best time to buy is when you feel you have the best price. There are plenty of online booking services that can help you. Some even offering you the best prices for the next x months. My favorite is travelocity.com but that doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I misunderstood then I’m sorry. "Could you repeat the question, Anne"? North Carolina it is, Raleigh to be exact, and for two people.  Now can someone help me out beyond what local travel agents have told me ("I don’t know, sir")?  Thanks for any advice.   Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you? Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina.

Than

Response:

I will be flying from America.  Pardon my scatter-brained mind.

Depends on which city in America. America is a huge country. Even so, hold out to July and keep an eye on Orbitz and other travel related sites to see if they offer any deals for the route you need to fly. You did not say where you’re flying to or from, but check the web site for each airline that flies the route you want to take to see if they have any deals and keep checking at least into July. Get on any of the relevant airlines’ email lists so you get updated on any fare sales.

Response:

I will be flying from America.  Pardon my scatter-brained mind. Depends on which city in America. America is a

continent. — Desmond Coughlan http: // www . zeouane . org

Response:

Oh, well, now that makes more sense… Flying in to one city and out of another will be much more expensive IME. I know some one will correct me if i’m wrong. Paris & Amsterdam are not so far apart, so I would recommend you fly in & out of either one or the other and take the train back. I also recommend you go after the 15th of September if possible as it is usually cheaper (again, I know I will be corrected if this has changed). I like to use travelocity.com as I said earlier. You can put in your destination and then "dates don’t matter" option. The prices you get for spring (travelocity shows only three months aheard) will be slightly more than you get in fall but probably about the same. At least that will give you an idea. Of course, booking as soon as the cheap fares come out is best (I’d about 3 months in advance) and things could change for various reasons so the prices now may be low or higher then what you can get now. For example: I was able on Travelocity.com to get a flight from Raliegh to Paris via Atlanta on Mar 17 returning on the Mar 27 for $324 round trip not including taxes. Currently flights for around September 17/18 ere around $900 for a round trip but that should go down as the airlines see the fligths are not being booked. The cheapest for a one way would be $1400 for the same date. BTW, I think one of the online booking services has a fare alert where it sends you info on the current prices for you desired flights. Anyone remember which one? HTH. Good luck. Emilia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you, Emilia.  Let me rephrase this:  looking for a flight for two, from North Carolina into Amsterdam, back to the US from Paris, in Sept 2003.  I don’t fly often to Europe (abt every 5 yrs) but local travel agents aren’t particularly knowledgeable regarding the best time to book flights.  I had planned to check the internet every few days at expedia or travelocity for a rate.  What I was hoping for from someone experienced in air travel in this group was a little more specifice advice–the name of a particularly good consolidator, a rough estimate of price that I could expect to pay (right now, I believe that a flight would be about $1600 USD and I know that’s not the best price).  I don’t mind booking the flight at any time, I just need to know a reasonable range to be looking at.  Thanks. Huh? The local travel agents can’t help you get a flight? Perhaps I don’t understand your question. You want to get to Amsterdam and back from Paris? What exactly can’t the travel agent help you with? The best time to buy is when you feel you have the best price. There are plenty of online booking services that can help you. Some even offering you the best prices for the next x months. My favorite is travelocity.com but that doesn’t mean it’s the best. If I misunderstood then I’m sorry. "Could you repeat the question, Anne"? North Carolina it is, Raleigh to be exact, and for two people.  Now can someone help me out beyond what local travel agents have told me ("I don’t know, sir")?  Thanks for any advice.   Carlton,  You’re doing just fine. Now what city in America?  By the way you’re not going to be making this trip alone are you? Five will get you ten it’s North Carolina. Than

Response:

BTW, I think one of the online booking services has a fare alert where it sends you info on the current prices for you desired flights. Anyone remember which one?

It’s Travelocity, but it only works for a simple round trip, not an open jaw. And I don’t think you get to choose the dates – it just tells you when there is any flight available at or below your chosen price. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

Response:

Oh, well, now that makes more sense… Flying in to one city and out of another will be much more expensive IME. I know some one will correct me if i’m wrong. Paris & Amsterdam are not so far apart, so I would recommend you fly in & out of either one or the other and take the train back.

This is not necessarily true.  If you use the same airline going and coming, you can usually do an open jaw with the fare calculated (in your case) by adding half the round-trip fare for Paris to half the round-trip fare to Amsterdam. GG

Response:

Oh, well, now that makes more sense… Flying in to one city and out of another will be much more expensive IME. I know some one will correct me if i’m wrong. Paris & Amsterdam are not so far apart, so I would recommend you fly in & out of either one or the other and take the train back.

I rarely fly into and out of the same European cities.  I fly "open-jaws" or into Amsterdam for example and home from Paris.  In this example it costs $13 more than flying round-trip PIT-CDG, travel dates being in September. It never costs a lot more to do this but usually just a few dollars depending on what cities are involved and can even be a little less so long as you fly the same airlines for all legs of the trip.  Flying open-jaws saves you money since you won’t have the train fare returning to your gateway city and you save a travel day that can be better spent doing fun things.  It is especially expensive to take the train between Paris and Amsterdam as the premier Thalys trains dominate this route.  If you are going to visit a few different areas flying open-jaws is a no-brainer. Ryan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, well, now that makes more sense… Flying in to one city and out of another will be much more expensive IME. I know some one will correct me if i’m wrong. Paris & Amsterdam are not so far apart, so I would recommend you fly in & out of either one or the other and take the train back. I rarely fly into and out of the same European cities.  I fly "open-jaws" or into Amsterdam for example and home from Paris.  In this example it costs $13 more than flying round-trip PIT-CDG, travel dates being in September. It never costs a lot more to do this but usually just a few dollars depending on what cities are involved and can even be a little less so long as you fly the same airlines for all legs of the trip.  Flying open-jaws saves you money since you won’t have the train fare returning to your gateway city and you save a travel day that can be better spent doing fun things.  It is especially expensive to take the train between Paris and Amsterdam as the premier Thalys trains dominate this route.  If you are going to visit a few different areas flying open-jaws is a no-brainer. Ryan

I know I’d get corrected In fact I do remember once flying into london & out of libson and it was still quite a good price. But I think I used STA (Student Travel) Have you been able to book this via internet sites such as Travelocity?

Response:

Question:

What is the best way to travel

Hitch-hike! It keeps you in close personal contact with the local people who know everything about everything from when that tree was planted to who was hung from it; what that crop up the hill is; who built that centuries-old house and who lives in it; who the local priest’s lover is; the name of the mayor’s mistress; the best, and most economical, places to eat; and which neighborhood church has uniquities worth your time. Every other medium of travel is lesser. I have hitch-hiked more than 25 kilomiles and regret not an inch of it.       A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco     http://geocities.com/dancefest/  http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103   IClast at SFbay Net

Response:

What is the best way to travel Hitch-hike!

SNIP Every other medium of travel is lesser.

But there comes an age where hitch-hiking (auto-stop in French?) becomes out of style or no reasonable person will pick you up.  IMO I’m long past that age.

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Hitch-hike! But there comes an age where hitch-hiking (auto-stop in French?) becomes out of style or no reasonable person will pick you up.  IMO I’m long past that age.

Depends on where you are – if you’re sufficiently exotic you can pull it off at any age. Africa and Asia work well. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

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1. Train+bus+trams and come back a supporter for better public transport if you are from the US.. 2.Car – but parking is too much of a problem in cities. Take trains to main cities and then trips with cars through the countryside. 3. Mediterranean cruises. Some can be cheap from Greece. 4. Hiking for sure in Switzerland. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome. Thanks, Donnie

Response:

One added advantage to long train rides instead of long car rides is that you can sit back, read, snooze, get up and stretch your legs, have lunch in the restaurant car, and generally feel relaxed when you arrive at your destination.  Very often the occasional four- or five-hour train ride (particularly if you have a 1st class pass, I might add) can seem like the rest and recuperation you really need on a long trip, between the excitement of being in stimulating places, where you’ll want to pound the pavement.

Works in 2nd class, too. And if youre good at starting conversations with total strangers, you can have all kinds of interesting ones. This is the only way to travel, in my opinion. Unfortunately, I can’t do it here in the US, only in Europe. Here I’d have to drive at least 100 miles to catch a train. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

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You forgot river cruises, which can last for more than 30 days in Europe. A fun option. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

Response:

Bernd Felsche wrote With 7 countries in 28 days you’ll be visiting a few cities and spending a lot of time travelling. 4 weeks in the UK alone – say London / York / Edinburgh / Scottish highlands and islands – would keep most people busy. A tad expensive, though unless you’re off the beaten track.

Perhaps; my point though was more about allowing adequate time, rather than costs. If you can avoid the commuter times and routes (ie the south east of England) then public transport is perfectly usable. Certainly to get cheap fares in the UK advance booking is essential, so a railpass may save money compared to full-fare travel. You’re assuming that the trains will be operating… and that there’ll be more than 2 trains a day going to where you want.

There are more than two trains a day even to Aberystwyth – actually, I think it’s three The main routes are usually hourly at worst. Besides, taking trains means you *have* to speak to the locals Same with coach travel.

I forgot about coach travel – well worth considering and much cheaper than trains especially for last-minute travel. Owain

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"R J Carpenter" wrote "Icono Clast" What is the best way to travel Hitch-hike! Every other medium of travel is lesser. But there comes an age where hitch-hiking (auto-stop in French?) becomes out of style or no reasonable person will pick you up.  IMO I’m long past that age.

An older person might be more likely to be offered a lift, because a motorist finds them less risky/threatening than a younger person. Owain

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Hi, let me guess… first time international traveler, under 30, male, american. what’s the best for you isn’t the best for me much of the time anymore. if -I- had a month I’d be buying a morris traveler in the UK from one of the specialist dealers and touring around a bit… -I-’d scrap spain for sure and add the czech republic, the netherlands, and maybe poland (depends on routing out of praha. a loop… uk, france, italy, switzerland, czech republic, poland, germany, netherlands. ship the car from the netherlands home. I made my first trip to europe 43 years ago. but I have used railpasses successfully. I’m a big fan of the flexipass…. you can do nice 3-4 city loops doing long overnight hops in couchettes and make both good use of your time but get a good travel value…use the spare day on the 5 pay pass for a day trip someplace is what I’ve done before… but given a month, a 5 day pass…. I might use it to go between 4 cities on the railpass on long (expensive) overnights… and pay cash for day trips… which being   domestric trips usually are pretty cheap. if you’re traveling as a group… it’s neat to have everyone with a pass… on some long hauls in germany, france, and italy we’ve gotten some nice sleeping cabins for our "1st class rail pass" as a group of 2-3…. and I’ve had a 1st class couchette cabin for myself several times amsterdam-paris…. amsterdam-paris overnight is a popular trip with the railpass crowd…. but it’s the unlimited class that’s loaded up… the over 26 1st class passes and cars don’t get used much anymore… most of the more affluent do the thalys instead… so the 1st class cars are often almost empty. and… while I’ve often heard about the french cops hassling railpass travelers on this run -I- never had a problem… but then I’ll pay the few extra euro for a roomier cabin overnight. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome. Thanks, Donnie

Response:

What is the best way to travel Hitch-hike! SNIP Every other medium of travel is lesser. But there comes an age where hitch-hiking (auto-stop in French?) becomes out of style or no reasonable person will pick you up.  IMO I’m long past that age.

True. I’m too old to withstand the rigors and discomfort of hitch-hiking. But, because of my considerable cosmic debt, I always pick up hitch-hikers. The most memorable one of recent years . . . Hell, here’s what I had to say: Newsgroups: rec.travel.usa-canada I don’t think anyone would actually recommend [hitch-hiking].

You’re mistaken. I not only recommend hitch-hiking, I encourage it. It is THE BEST WAY TO TRAVEL!!! I have hitch-hiked more than 25,000 miles (and have a huge cosmic debt to pay) in the USA, Mexico, France, and Spain. Yes, my hitch-hiking days were a long time ago. There were nuts and crazies out there then just as there are now. I met a few. What makes hitch-hiking so great? More often than not, you’re the guest of a local person who knows everything about everything. They know what’s growing in that field, on those trees, what that smokestack is emitting and the products that result from it; they know the history, the politics, and who’s who and what’s what where and when. A recent hitch-hiker, looking like a major bum, I picked up in New Mexico proved, when we crossed into Texas, to be a Texas historian who knew everything about everything. After checking out what he had told me against a few historical monuments, I stopped reading the monuments. He knew everything they had to say and much more. I regretted having to drop him off. If you do – pin a large UK flag to your pack,

I wouldn’t do that. Why should anyone care until you’re a passenger? dress neatly, have some cash available to take a bus when you have to.

I’ve had to take a bus only once. I couldn’t get a ride out of Kit Carson, Colorado. The cops threatened me unless I took a bus. Did so. Most people who do hitchhike on the major roads hold a cardboard sign with the name of the town they are going to.

I think that’s a bad idea. The closer you get to a destination the greater the likelihood of getting a ride to it. This helps in that drivers know what they are committing themselves to before they pick you up and they might be going right into the town.

I disagree. All I need to know is that you’re going the same direction I am and, since you’re asking for a ride in that direction, that’s all I need to know to stop.       A San Franciscan who’s visited 49 of 50 US states http://geocities.com/dancefest/   http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103    IClast at SFbay Net

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[snip] You’re mistaken. I not only recommend hitch-hiking, I encourage it. It is THE BEST WAY TO TRAVEL!!! I have hitch-hiked more than 25,000 miles (and have a huge cosmic debt to pay) in the USA, Mexico, France, and Spain. Yes, my hitch-hiking days were a long time ago. There were nuts and crazies out there then just as there are now. I met a few.

When I was a child I had a friend whose father stopped to pick up a hitchhiker after visiting his wife in the hospital, where she had just had a baby. The hitchhiker murdered him. Needless to say, I have a different opinion about hitchhiking than you do. Barbara

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] You’re mistaken. I not only recommend hitch-hiking, I encourage it. It is THE BEST WAY TO TRAVEL!!! I have hitch-hiked more than 25,000 miles (and have a huge cosmic debt to pay) in the USA, Mexico, France, and Spain. Yes, my hitch-hiking days were a long time ago. There were nuts and crazies out there then just as there are now. I met a few. When I was a child I had a friend whose father stopped to pick up a hitchhiker after visiting his wife in the hospital, where she had just had a baby. The hitchhiker murdered him. Needless to say, I have a different opinion about hitchhiking than you do. Barbara

And there were news stories a couple of decades ago about a driver in Wyoming/Montana who _ate_ parts of a some hitchikers.

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Park on the outskirts (usually at no charge) and use public transport …

One added advantage to long train rides instead of long car rides is that you can sit back, read, snooze, get up and stretch your legs, have lunch in the restaurant car, and generally feel relaxed when you arrive at your destination.  Very often the occasional four- or five-hour train ride (particularly if you have a 1st class pass, I might add) can seem like the rest and recuperation you really need on a long trip, between the excitement of being in stimulating places, where you’ll want to pound the pavement. Driving CAN go well, but it is still driving, and the ’staus’ sudden traffic jams on normally free-flowing freeways, can be horrendous, depending on the day you are travelling (near the start or end of vacation periods in different countries or states), and the frustrations of driving can easily mount, especially if you need to cover a lot of territory.  There are place that are lots of fun and beautiful to drive, but many of the longer freeway stretches are nothing but white-knuckle tedium.

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Austria does not have a motor toll, except for over the Brenner Pass. Are you travelling alone?

Since around 1995?, motorway tolls in the form of sticker (vignette) are required to use Austrian motorways. I think you can get it for 10 days, a month or longer period. And you have to pay extra toll to use Brenner, Trauern etc, but you get a slight reduction with a vignette. The fine for driving without one is very high, and the police routinely pull in cars, esp foreign registered, to check, and you can see them patrolling in car parks at rest areas. Alec

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There is no such thing as a best way.  It entirely depends on what it is that you want to see/experience. If you want to see the major sites in cities then rail is the way to go.   To estimate the utility of passes you have to outline an itinerary and price it both ways.  Unless regular ticketing came out with 15-20% savings I would go for a pass for convenience.  However the savings may well be more for some trips. If you want to get out into the countryside you will probably need a car.  I have spent several trips wandering about.  I don’t think that there is any other way to see Eire for example. Think through what you want and then you will know. Frank Matthews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome. Thanks, Donnie

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Good lord.  You mean all those folks with tales of being stopped in Motor way Plazas and fined because they didn’t get a sticker when entering the country weren’t seeing police but pirates.  Someone should tell the Austrian government of all the piracy. Frank Matthews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Austria does not have a motor toll, except for over the Brenner Pass. Are you travelling alone?

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Bernd Felsche wrote "Donnie" writes: What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria.

With 7 countries in 28 days you’ll be visiting a few cities and spending a lot of time travelling. 4 weeks in the UK alone – say London / York / Edinburgh / Scottish highlands and islands – would keep most people busy. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? It’s hard to recommend any mode of travel for the UK. Trains follow the definition of chaotic. …  public transport is largely such an insult for anything but commuter needs.

If you can avoid the commuter times and routes (ie the south east of England) then public transport is perfectly usable. Certainly to get cheap fares in the UK advance booking is essential, so a railpass may save money compared to full-fare travel. Besides, taking trains means you *have* to speak to the locals Fortunately, you can escape the UK by air for as little at UKP 0.99 (plus taxes!) by flying from Stansted with Ryanair. If you rent a car, you don’t really care that "Frankfurt-Hahn" is actually much closer to Luxemburg tha Frankfurt am Main,

So fly to Frankfurt and visit Luxemburg instead. It’s probably nicer than Frankfurt (and would tick off another country!) Owain

Response:

What is the best way to travel around Europe?

Touring small towns & countryside?   Rental car. City centers to city centers?   Train  (though in the U.K. and the Iberian peninsula motorcoaches can be even better). Covering very large distances?  Cheap airlines if they go there. I would combine them all, if I were you.   You can check here http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/timecostmap.htm to see if you have enough $60 to $70 days on the train to warrant a railpass (though if you buy a pass just for Germany, say, then you are looking more at trips averaging $45 to break even on a Germanrail pass).  Chances are if you combine  1) cheap airlines for long distance travel with  2) rail side-trips for cities and medium-length stretches,   and  3) cars for touring intensively more charming rural areas,  you’ll save over a railpass. If it were me, I’d use train or coach in the U.K.;  fly to the continent from there;  use a car for touring smaller regions in Germany (e.g., Bavaria/Black Forest in Germany and maybe Austria too)  but otherwise take the train;  use train in Italy;  use Train in Spain for most journeys but rent a car for a few days for exploring Andalucia;  and take the train for long stretches in France but rent a car for the Provence or touring other areas like Burgundy or Brittany, but definitely not have the car for the Cote d’Azur (just base in Nice and take train or bus).  Be aware that in most countries in Europe you can drop the car within the same country without paying a drop charge (so you can rent in Nice and drop in Strasbourg, if you want to drive that much) but you can’t drop across the border without paying a stiff surcharge.  There are definitely many places in Europe (i.e. large cities) where you will be grateful you do NOT have a car.

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Austria does not have a motor toll, except for over the Brenner Pass. Are you travelling alone?

Austria does have tolls. I had to buy a Vignette [1] for my motorcycle and pay tolls to go over the Grossglockner pass, Tauern tunnel etc see http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/overseas/european_tolls_select.jsp [1] equates to a UK Road Fund Licence, available for 7 days or longer — BMW R1150GS

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Austria does not have a motor toll, except for over the Brenner Pass. Are you travelling alone? "It  doesn’t matter what you do in the bedroom as long as you don’t do it in the street and frighten the horses".      – Mrs. Patrick Campbell (English actress)

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Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome.

I recently made the following suggestion to a nephew who was thinking of backpacking around: Get an open jaws flight into London and out of Paris (or some other northern European city. Fly from London to Italy with a cheap Ryanair flight (sometimes as cheap as 10 Euro). Travel around Italy by train, buying individual tickets. Get a flight to Paris from Ancona (20 Euro). Travel around France a bit, and maybe see Belgium and the Netherlands as well by train, either buying individual tickets or getting a Benelux pass, then return to Paris and leave from there. The suggestion for Ancona was so my nephew could visit us. However, some variation of this itinerary would work for other cities, and would probably save a good deal of money over a Eurailpass. Barbara

Response:

What is the best way to travel around Europe?

[snip] If it were me, I’d use train or coach in the U.K.;  fly to the continent from there;  use a car for touring smaller regions in Germany (e.g., Bavaria/Black Forest in Germany and maybe Austria too)  but otherwise take the train;  use train in Italy;  use Train in Spain for most journeys but rent a car for a few days for exploring Andalucia;  and take the train for long stretches in France but rent a car for the Provence or touring other areas like Burgundy or Brittany, but definitely not have the car for the Cote d’Azur (just base in Nice and take train or bus).  

I think you’ve just outlined a 4-month holiday, not a 4-week. There are definitely many places in Europe (i.e. large cities) where you will be grateful you do NOT have a car.

Park on the outskirts (usually at no charge) and use public transport (day pass or "Welcome/Discount Card") inside. Works well in places like Berlin (which is also comparatively car-friendly) and London. It’s usually cheaper staying on the fringe of the city than in the centre anyway. — /" Bernd Felsche – Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I’m a .signature virus!  X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature /  and postings          | to help me spread!

Response:

Bernd Felsche wrote "Donnie" writes: What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. With 7 countries in 28 days you’ll be visiting a few cities and spending a lot of time travelling. 4 weeks in the UK alone – say London / York / Edinburgh / Scottish highlands and islands – would keep most people busy.

A tad expensive, though unless you’re off the beaten track. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? It’s hard to recommend any mode of travel for the UK. Trains follow the definition of chaotic. …  public transport is largely such an insult for anything but commuter needs. If you can avoid the commuter times and routes (ie the south east of England) then public transport is perfectly usable. Certainly to get cheap fares in the UK advance booking is essential, so a railpass may save money compared to full-fare travel.

You’re assuming that the trains will be operating… and that there’ll be more than 2 trains a day going to where you want. Besides, taking trains means you *have* to speak to the locals

Same with coach travel. Fortunately, you can escape the UK by air for as little at UKP 0.99 (plus taxes!) by flying from Stansted with Ryanair. If you rent a car, you don’t really care that "Frankfurt-Hahn" is actually much closer to Luxemburg tha Frankfurt am Main, So fly to Frankfurt and visit Luxemburg instead. It’s probably nicer than Frankfurt (and would tick off another country!)

And fill up the fuel tank as well! Much cheaper. — /" Bernd Felsche – Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I’m a .signature virus!  X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature /  and postings          | to help me spread!

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Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome. Thanks, Donnie

Response:

What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome.

If you can drive, it’s hard to beat a long-term car rental for the continent. Make sure you get a Diesel and the smallest car you NEED; but with airconditioning for the summer. Long term rental can be around 30 to 40 Euro per day, but it has to be more than 28 days IIRC to qualify for "long term". When driving through the Alps, etc, there are often tolls to pay for tunnels, and in countries like Austria, also a motorway toll. The latter doesn’t cost a lot; about 5 Euro for 10 days, but tunnels can get expensive with 10 Euros each way! IN summer, it’s often cheaper to drive around/over the tunnels if you have the extra hour. A few good road maps will set you back about 50 Euros; covering countries of interest in sufficient detail to find what you need and how to get there. If you don’t even slightly enjoy driving and/or easily become geographically embarrassed, then please don’t try it in a rental car. Rail passes are a good option otherwise… keep a lookout for "Welcome Card" offers in major cities that often include public transport around the city as well as discounts at public venues. Cost is about 10 Euro per day; if you’re not travelling alone or plan to spend a few days in that city, they get *much* cheaper per capita and per day. With public transport, especially over an arbitrary course, you’re however at the mercy of the vagaries of its operation. Not so important if you only plan to see the major centres, but more of an issue with off the major routes. Even regional cities can pose problems – it can take 4 to 6 hours to cover a nett distance of 100km in Germany depending on train and other public transport schedules. Air travel is a surprising option; beware of baggage allowances and the extra sting that might carry. It’s hard to recommend any mode of travel for the UK. Trains follow the definition of chaotic. Other public transport is at best sporadic outside of major towns. Schedules are best used to wrap your lunch – which you’ll have to take because it can be *painfully* slow to get from one place to the next. Travel by coach (long-distance bus) is a far better option than trains. If you’re lucky, you’ll get a driver instead of a vehicle operator. Fuel in the UK is amongst the most-expensive in the world but very many people still prefer to pay that penalty because public transport is largely such an insult for anything but commuter needs. Fortunately, you can escape the UK by air for as little at UKP 0.99 (plus taxes!) by flying from Stansted with Ryanair. If you rent a car, you don’t really care that "Frankfurt-Hahn" is actually much closer to Luxemburg tha Frankfurt am Main, provided you order the car for the correct airport. — /" Bernd Felsche – Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I’m a .signature virus!  X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature /  and postings          | to help me spread!

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Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome. Thanks, Donnie

Response:

What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome.

If you can drive, it’s hard to beat a long-term car rental for the continent. Make sure you get a Diesel and the smallest car you NEED; but with airconditioning for the summer. Long term rental can be around 30 to 40 Euro per day, but it has to be more than 28 days IIRC to qualify for "long term". When driving through the Alps, etc, there are often tolls to pay for tunnels, and in countries like Austria, also a motorway toll. The latter doesn’t cost a lot; about 5 Euro for 10 days, but tunnels can get expensive with 10 Euros each way! IN summer, it’s often cheaper to drive around/over the tunnels if you have the extra hour. A few good road maps will set you back about 50 Euros; covering countries of interest in sufficient detail to find what you need and how to get there. If you don’t even slightly enjoy driving and/or easily become geographically embarrassed, then please don’t try it in a rental car. Rail passes are a good option otherwise… keep a lookout for "Welcome Card" offers in major cities that often include public transport around the city as well as discounts at public venues. Cost is about 10 Euro per day; if you’re not travelling alone or plan to spend a few days in that city, they get *much* cheaper per capita and per day. With public transport, especially over an arbitrary course, you’re however at the mercy of the vagaries of its operation. Not so important if you only plan to see the major centres, but more of an issue with off the major routes. Even regional cities can pose problems – it can take 4 to 6 hours to cover a nett distance of 100km in Germany depending on train and other public transport schedules. Air travel is a surprising option; beware of baggage allowances and the extra sting that might carry. It’s hard to recommend any mode of travel for the UK. Trains follow the definition of chaotic. Other public transport is at best sporadic outside of major towns. Schedules are best used to wrap your lunch – which you’ll have to take because it can be *painfully* slow to get from one place to the next. Travel by coach (long-distance bus) is a far better option than trains. If you’re lucky, you’ll get a driver instead of a vehicle operator. Fuel in the UK is amongst the most-expensive in the world but very many people still prefer to pay that penalty because public transport is largely such an insult for anything but commuter needs. Fortunately, you can escape the UK by air for as little at UKP 0.99 (plus taxes!) by flying from Stansted with Ryanair. If you rent a car, you don’t really care that "Frankfurt-Hahn" is actually much closer to Luxemburg tha Frankfurt am Main, provided you order the car for the correct airport. — /" Bernd Felsche – Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I’m a .signature virus!  X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature /  and postings          | to help me spread!

Response:

Austria does not have a motor toll, except for over the Brenner Pass. Are you travelling alone? "It  doesn’t matter what you do in the bedroom as long as you don’t do it in the street and frighten the horses".      – Mrs. Patrick Campbell (English actress)

Response:

Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome.

I recently made the following suggestion to a nephew who was thinking of backpacking around: Get an open jaws flight into London and out of Paris (or some other northern European city. Fly from London to Italy with a cheap Ryanair flight (sometimes as cheap as 10 Euro). Travel around Italy by train, buying individual tickets. Get a flight to Paris from Ancona (20 Euro). Travel around France a bit, and maybe see Belgium and the Netherlands as well by train, either buying individual tickets or getting a Benelux pass, then return to Paris and leave from there. The suggestion for Ancona was so my nephew could visit us. However, some variation of this itinerary would work for other cities, and would probably save a good deal of money over a Eurailpass. Barbara

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Austria does not have a motor toll, except for over the Brenner Pass. Are you travelling alone?

Austria does have tolls. I had to buy a Vignette [1] for my motorcycle and pay tolls to go over the Grossglockner pass, Tauern tunnel etc see http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/overseas/european_tolls_select.jsp [1] equates to a UK Road Fund Licence, available for 7 days or longer — BMW R1150GS

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Austria does not have a motor toll, except for over the Brenner Pass. Are you travelling alone?

Since around 1995?, motorway tolls in the form of sticker (vignette) are required to use Austrian motorways. I think you can get it for 10 days, a month or longer period. And you have to pay extra toll to use Brenner, Trauern etc, but you get a slight reduction with a vignette. The fine for driving without one is very high, and the police routinely pull in cars, esp foreign registered, to check, and you can see them patrolling in car parks at rest areas. Alec

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There is no such thing as a best way.  It entirely depends on what it is that you want to see/experience. If you want to see the major sites in cities then rail is the way to go.   To estimate the utility of passes you have to outline an itinerary and price it both ways.  Unless regular ticketing came out with 15-20% savings I would go for a pass for convenience.  However the savings may well be more for some trips. If you want to get out into the countryside you will probably need a car.  I have spent several trips wandering about.  I don’t think that there is any other way to see Eire for example. Think through what you want and then you will know. Frank Matthews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome. Thanks, Donnie

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Good lord.  You mean all those folks with tales of being stopped in Motor way Plazas and fined because they didn’t get a sticker when entering the country weren’t seeing police but pirates.  Someone should tell the Austrian government of all the piracy. Frank Matthews – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Austria does not have a motor toll, except for over the Brenner Pass. Are you travelling alone?

Response:

Bernd Felsche wrote "Donnie" writes: What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria.

With 7 countries in 28 days you’ll be visiting a few cities and spending a lot of time travelling. 4 weeks in the UK alone – say London / York / Edinburgh / Scottish highlands and islands – would keep most people busy. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? It’s hard to recommend any mode of travel for the UK. Trains follow the definition of chaotic. …  public transport is largely such an insult for anything but commuter needs.

If you can avoid the commuter times and routes (ie the south east of England) then public transport is perfectly usable. Certainly to get cheap fares in the UK advance booking is essential, so a railpass may save money compared to full-fare travel. Besides, taking trains means you *have* to speak to the locals Fortunately, you can escape the UK by air for as little at UKP 0.99 (plus taxes!) by flying from Stansted with Ryanair. If you rent a car, you don’t really care that "Frankfurt-Hahn" is actually much closer to Luxemburg tha Frankfurt am Main,

So fly to Frankfurt and visit Luxemburg instead. It’s probably nicer than Frankfurt (and would tick off another country!) Owain

Response:

What is the best way to travel around Europe?

Touring small towns & countryside?   Rental car. City centers to city centers?   Train  (though in the U.K. and the Iberian peninsula motorcoaches can be even better). Covering very large distances?  Cheap airlines if they go there. I would combine them all, if I were you.   You can check here http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/timecostmap.htm to see if you have enough $60 to $70 days on the train to warrant a railpass (though if you buy a pass just for Germany, say, then you are looking more at trips averaging $45 to break even on a Germanrail pass).  Chances are if you combine  1) cheap airlines for long distance travel with  2) rail side-trips for cities and medium-length stretches,   and  3) cars for touring intensively more charming rural areas,  you’ll save over a railpass. If it were me, I’d use train or coach in the U.K.;  fly to the continent from there;  use a car for touring smaller regions in Germany (e.g., Bavaria/Black Forest in Germany and maybe Austria too)  but otherwise take the train;  use train in Italy;  use Train in Spain for most journeys but rent a car for a few days for exploring Andalucia;  and take the train for long stretches in France but rent a car for the Provence or touring other areas like Burgundy or Brittany, but definitely not have the car for the Cote d’Azur (just base in Nice and take train or bus).  Be aware that in most countries in Europe you can drop the car within the same country without paying a drop charge (so you can rent in Nice and drop in Strasbourg, if you want to drive that much) but you can’t drop across the border without paying a stiff surcharge.  There are definitely many places in Europe (i.e. large cities) where you will be grateful you do NOT have a car.

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Bernd Felsche wrote "Donnie" writes: What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. With 7 countries in 28 days you’ll be visiting a few cities and spending a lot of time travelling. 4 weeks in the UK alone – say London / York / Edinburgh / Scottish highlands and islands – would keep most people busy.

A tad expensive, though unless you’re off the beaten track. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? It’s hard to recommend any mode of travel for the UK. Trains follow the definition of chaotic. …  public transport is largely such an insult for anything but commuter needs. If you can avoid the commuter times and routes (ie the south east of England) then public transport is perfectly usable. Certainly to get cheap fares in the UK advance booking is essential, so a railpass may save money compared to full-fare travel.

You’re assuming that the trains will be operating… and that there’ll be more than 2 trains a day going to where you want. Besides, taking trains means you *have* to speak to the locals

Same with coach travel. Fortunately, you can escape the UK by air for as little at UKP 0.99 (plus taxes!) by flying from Stansted with Ryanair. If you rent a car, you don’t really care that "Frankfurt-Hahn" is actually much closer to Luxemburg tha Frankfurt am Main, So fly to Frankfurt and visit Luxemburg instead. It’s probably nicer than Frankfurt (and would tick off another country!)

And fill up the fuel tank as well! Much cheaper. — /" Bernd Felsche – Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I’m a .signature virus!  X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature /  and postings          | to help me spread!

Response:

What is the best way to travel around Europe?

[snip] If it were me, I’d use train or coach in the U.K.;  fly to the continent from there;  use a car for touring smaller regions in Germany (e.g., Bavaria/Black Forest in Germany and maybe Austria too)  but otherwise take the train;  use train in Italy;  use Train in Spain for most journeys but rent a car for a few days for exploring Andalucia;  and take the train for long stretches in France but rent a car for the Provence or touring other areas like Burgundy or Brittany, but definitely not have the car for the Cote d’Azur (just base in Nice and take train or bus).  

I think you’ve just outlined a 4-month holiday, not a 4-week. There are definitely many places in Europe (i.e. large cities) where you will be grateful you do NOT have a car.

Park on the outskirts (usually at no charge) and use public transport (day pass or "Welcome/Discount Card") inside. Works well in places like Berlin (which is also comparatively car-friendly) and London. It’s usually cheaper staying on the fringe of the city than in the centre anyway. — /" Bernd Felsche – Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I’m a .signature virus!  X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature /  and postings          | to help me spread!

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Park on the outskirts (usually at no charge) and use public transport …

One added advantage to long train rides instead of long car rides is that you can sit back, read, snooze, get up and stretch your legs, have lunch in the restaurant car, and generally feel relaxed when you arrive at your destination.  Very often the occasional four- or five-hour train ride (particularly if you have a 1st class pass, I might add) can seem like the rest and recuperation you really need on a long trip, between the excitement of being in stimulating places, where you’ll want to pound the pavement. Driving CAN go well, but it is still driving, and the ’staus’ sudden traffic jams on normally free-flowing freeways, can be horrendous, depending on the day you are travelling (near the start or end of vacation periods in different countries or states), and the frustrations of driving can easily mount, especially if you need to cover a lot of territory.  There are place that are lots of fun and beautiful to drive, but many of the longer freeway stretches are nothing but white-knuckle tedium.

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What is the best way to travel

Hitch-hike! It keeps you in close personal contact with the local people who know everything about everything from when that tree was planted to who was hung from it; what that crop up the hill is; who built that centuries-old house and who lives in it; who the local priest’s lover is; the name of the mayor’s mistress; the best, and most economical, places to eat; and which neighborhood church has uniquities worth your time. Every other medium of travel is lesser. I have hitch-hiked more than 25 kilomiles and regret not an inch of it.       A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco     http://geocities.com/dancefest/  http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103   IClast at SFbay Net

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What is the best way to travel Hitch-hike!

SNIP Every other medium of travel is lesser.

But there comes an age where hitch-hiking (auto-stop in French?) becomes out of style or no reasonable person will pick you up.  IMO I’m long past that age.

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Hitch-hike! But there comes an age where hitch-hiking (auto-stop in French?) becomes out of style or no reasonable person will pick you up.  IMO I’m long past that age.

Depends on where you are – if you’re sufficiently exotic you can pull it off at any age. Africa and Asia work well. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Latest addition: 80 photos from Guatemala

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1. Train+bus+trams and come back a supporter for better public transport if you are from the US.. 2.Car – but parking is too much of a problem in cities. Take trains to main cities and then trips with cars through the countryside. 3. Mediterranean cruises. Some can be cheap from Greece. 4. Hiking for sure in Switzerland. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome. Thanks, Donnie

Response:

One added advantage to long train rides instead of long car rides is that you can sit back, read, snooze, get up and stretch your legs, have lunch in the restaurant car, and generally feel relaxed when you arrive at your destination.  Very often the occasional four- or five-hour train ride (particularly if you have a 1st class pass, I might add) can seem like the rest and recuperation you really need on a long trip, between the excitement of being in stimulating places, where you’ll want to pound the pavement.

Works in 2nd class, too. And if youre good at starting conversations with total strangers, you can have all kinds of interesting ones. This is the only way to travel, in my opinion. Unfortunately, I can’t do it here in the US, only in Europe. Here I’d have to drive at least 100 miles to catch a train. — Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar) Erilar’s Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

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You forgot river cruises, which can last for more than 30 days in Europe. A fun option. A truly cool book: The World Is Already Yours Conscious living in the real world www.alreadyyours.com (sample chapter, etc…)

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Bernd Felsche wrote With 7 countries in 28 days you’ll be visiting a few cities and spending a lot of time travelling. 4 weeks in the UK alone – say London / York / Edinburgh / Scottish highlands and islands – would keep most people busy. A tad expensive, though unless you’re off the beaten track.

Perhaps; my point though was more about allowing adequate time, rather than costs. If you can avoid the commuter times and routes (ie the south east of England) then public transport is perfectly usable. Certainly to get cheap fares in the UK advance booking is essential, so a railpass may save money compared to full-fare travel. You’re assuming that the trains will be operating… and that there’ll be more than 2 trains a day going to where you want.

There are more than two trains a day even to Aberystwyth – actually, I think it’s three The main routes are usually hourly at worst. Besides, taking trains means you *have* to speak to the locals Same with coach travel.

I forgot about coach travel – well worth considering and much cheaper than trains especially for last-minute travel. Owain

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"R J Carpenter" wrote "Icono Clast" What is the best way to travel Hitch-hike! Every other medium of travel is lesser. But there comes an age where hitch-hiking (auto-stop in French?) becomes out of style or no reasonable person will pick you up.  IMO I’m long past that age.

An older person might be more likely to be offered a lift, because a motorist finds them less risky/threatening than a younger person. Owain

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Hi, let me guess… first time international traveler, under 30, male, american. what’s the best for you isn’t the best for me much of the time anymore. if -I- had a month I’d be buying a morris traveler in the UK from one of the specialist dealers and touring around a bit… -I-’d scrap spain for sure and add the czech republic, the netherlands, and maybe poland (depends on routing out of praha. a loop… uk, france, italy, switzerland, czech republic, poland, germany, netherlands. ship the car from the netherlands home. I made my first trip to europe 43 years ago. but I have used railpasses successfully. I’m a big fan of the flexipass…. you can do nice 3-4 city loops doing long overnight hops in couchettes and make both good use of your time but get a good travel value…use the spare day on the 5 pay pass for a day trip someplace is what I’ve done before… but given a month, a 5 day pass…. I might use it to go between 4 cities on the railpass on long (expensive) overnights… and pay cash for day trips… which being   domestric trips usually are pretty cheap. if you’re traveling as a group… it’s neat to have everyone with a pass… on some long hauls in germany, france, and italy we’ve gotten some nice sleeping cabins for our "1st class rail pass" as a group of 2-3…. and I’ve had a 1st class couchette cabin for myself several times amsterdam-paris…. amsterdam-paris overnight is a popular trip with the railpass crowd…. but it’s the unlimited class that’s loaded up… the over 26 1st class passes and cars don’t get used much anymore… most of the more affluent do the thalys instead… so the 1st class cars are often almost empty. and… while I’ve often heard about the french cops hassling railpass travelers on this run -I- never had a problem… but then I’ll pay the few extra euro for a roomier cabin overnight. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, What is the best way to travel around Europe? I will be spending about 4 weeks in Europe this summer and want to visit the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria. I am pretty sure getting around by train is a good way to go about it, but should I buy a railpass? Or should I just pay for my travel whenever I need to travel? Also, I know air travel within Europe is somewhat cheap now, would that be a better way to go? Even though I wouldn’t get to see as much of the scenery? Any input is welcome. Thanks, Donnie

Response:

What is the best way to travel Hitch-hike! SNIP Every other medium of travel is lesser. But there comes an age where hitch-hiking (auto-stop in French?) becomes out of style or no reasonable person will pick you up.  IMO I’m long past that age.

True. I’m too old to withstand the rigors and discomfort of hitch-hiking. But, because of my considerable cosmic debt, I always pick up hitch-hikers. The most memorable one of recent years . . . Hell, here’s what I had to say: Newsgroups: rec.travel.usa-canada I don’t think anyone would actually recommend [hitch-hiking].

You’re mistaken. I not only recommend hitch-hiking, I encourage it. It is THE BEST WAY TO TRAVEL!!! I have hitch-hiked more than 25,000 miles (and have a huge cosmic debt to pay) in the USA, Mexico, France, and Spain. Yes, my hitch-hiking days were a long time ago. There were nuts and crazies out there then just as there are now. I met a few. What makes hitch-hiking so great? More often than not, you’re the guest of a local person who knows everything about everything. They know what’s growing in that field, on those trees, what that smokestack is emitting and the products that result from it; they know the history, the politics, and who’s who and what’s what where and when. A recent hitch-hiker, looking like a major bum, I picked up in New Mexico proved, when we crossed into Texas, to be a Texas historian who knew everything about everything. After checking out what he had told me against a few historical monuments, I stopped reading the monuments. He knew everything they had to say and much more. I regretted having to drop him off. If you do – pin a large UK flag to your pack,

I wouldn’t do that. Why should anyone care until you’re a passenger? dress neatly, have some cash available to take a bus when you have to.

I’ve had to take a bus only once. I couldn’t get a ride out of Kit Carson, Colorado. The cops threatened me unless I took a bus. Did so. Most people who do hitchhike on the major roads hold a cardboard sign with the name of the town they are going to.

I think that’s a bad idea. The closer you get to a destination the greater the likelihood of getting a ride to it. This helps in that drivers know what they are committing themselves to before they pick you up and they might be going right into the town.

I disagree. All I need to know is that you’re going the same direction I am and, since you’re asking for a ride in that direction, that’s all I need to know to stop.       A San Franciscan who’s visited 49 of 50 US states http://geocities.com/dancefest/   http://geocities.com/iconoc/ ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103    IClast at SFbay Net

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[snip] You’re mistaken. I not only recommend hitch-hiking, I encourage it. It is THE BEST WAY TO TRAVEL!!! I have hitch-hiked more than 25,000 miles (and have a huge cosmic debt to pay) in the USA, Mexico, France, and Spain. Yes, my hitch-hiking days were a long time ago. There were nuts and crazies out there then just as there are now. I met a few.

When I was a child I had a friend whose father stopped to pick up a hitchhiker after visiting his wife in the hospital, where she had just had a baby. The hitchhiker murdered him. Needless to say, I have a different opinion about hitchhiking than you do. Barbara

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] You’re mistaken. I not only recommend hitch-hiking, I encourage it. It is THE BEST WAY TO TRAVEL!!! I have hitch-hiked more than 25,000 miles (and have a huge cosmic debt to pay) in the USA, Mexico, France, and Spain. Yes, my hitch-hiking days were a long time ago. There were nuts and crazies out there then just as there are now. I met a few. When I was a child I had a friend whose father stopped to pick up a hitchhiker after visiting his wife in the hospital, where she had just had a baby. The hitchhiker murdered him. Needless to say, I have a different opinion about hitchhiking than you do. Barbara

And there were news stories a couple of decades ago about a driver in Wyoming/Montana who _ate_ parts of a some hitchikers.

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Question:

I’m looking for a cheap one way ticket Atlanta-Amsterdam in June with Delta. The cheapest price I found is $ 745. Are there better bargains. If you guys could help me I would be very pleased.

Response:

If a round trip is less, buy that and throw out the half you won’t be using.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a cheap one way ticket Atlanta-Amsterdam in June with Delta. The cheapest price I found is $ 745. Are there better bargains. If you guys could help me I would be very pleased.

Response:

$449.00 with tax ATL-AMS one way http://airtravelcenter.com/atcbroker.htm — Air Travel Center over the web at: airtravelcenter.com over the air at: airtravelcenter.ch voice over the wires at: 1-800-931-7222 1-717-732-7222 fax over the wires at: 1-717-728-1269 electronic mail at: mail over land at: 1 East Manor Avenue (rear bldg) Enola, Pa. US  17025-2822

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for a cheap one way ticket Atlanta-Amsterdam in June with Delta. The cheapest price I found is $ 745. Are there better bargains. If you guys could help me I would be very pleased.

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$449.00 with tax ATL-AMS one way

For the dates in June that he wants to travel, and on Delta?

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Question:

Hi- Im looking for help with summertime discount prices on air from Istanbul back to Germany, (one-way)… preferably Berlin, but Frankfurt would do as well. My choices seem to be Turkish Air, Czech Air and Azerbaijan Airlines but the cheapest fare is over $400 one way back to Berlin… but flights.com does not have detail flight info on the latter two and Turkish Air site will only display business class and only 3 months out ($700)… so I dont give much value to that $400 either. Are there any scheduled charters, consolidators, travel agents that you could suggest for this 3 hour flight… Im thinking like $200 for this trip… is this not realistic ? Thanx. jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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Are there any scheduled charters, consolidators, travel agents that you could suggest for this 3 hour flight… Im thinking like $200 for this trip… is this not realistic ?

Try telephoning the student travel (Travel CUTS, STA Travel, etc. – Council Travel if you’re desperate) agency affiliates on the ground in Turkey. They’ll speak English, are quite reliable, and will know about the various options better than anyone out of the country. They are able to sell non-student tickets. When in Turkey we were able to buy cheap last-minute one-ways from these places with ease. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

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Are there any scheduled charters, consolidators, travel agents that you could suggest for this 3 hour flight… Im thinking like $200 for this trip… is this not realistic ? Try telephoning the student travel (Travel CUTS, STA Travel, etc. – Council Travel if you’re desperate) agency affiliates on the ground in Turkey. They’ll speak English, are quite reliable, and will know about the various options better than anyone out of the country. They are able to sell non-student tickets. When in Turkey we were able to buy cheap last-minute one-ways from these places with ease.

My biggest concern is that this is in August and while I have 6 days in IST, I have only given an overnight back in germany to catch a trans-Atlantic flight that is date fixed. The fares you were seeing were on scheduled flights or charters (that I cant search for) ? Did they also have cheap fares to Ephesus… on the Turkish air site its just over $200 return, not bad I guess really. thanx jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002 miguel

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are there any scheduled charters, consolidators, travel agents that you could suggest for this 3 hour flight… Im thinking like $200 for this trip… is this not realistic ? Try telephoning the student travel (Travel CUTS, STA Travel, etc. – Council Travel if you’re desperate) agency affiliates on the ground in Turkey. They’ll speak English, are quite reliable, and will know about the various options better than anyone out of the country. They are able to sell non-student tickets. When in Turkey we were able to buy cheap last-minute one-ways from these places with ease. My biggest concern is that this is in August and while I have 6 days in IST, I have only given an overnight back in germany to catch a trans-Atlantic flight that is date fixed. The fares you were seeing were on scheduled flights or charters (that I cant search for) ? Did they also have cheap fares to Ephesus… on the Turkish air site its just over $200 return, not bad I guess really.

I think you are asking a lot if you expect to book a ‘legal’ ticket from outside Turkey for this – realistically, the way you’ll travel for that kind of money is by buying a Sat night throw away locally (which will almost always be cheaper than one way). As an alternative to those the above, try Malev in Istanbul, who can be cheap for connections. Dont mention the ‘throw away’ bit, obviously, which I can’t condone or recommend and wouldn’t do myself etc etc Address: Elmadag Cumhuriyet Caddesi 141-147, Umac apt. Tel: (+90)(212)232 4839 Fax: (+90)(212) 230 2034

Response:

Try telephoning the student travel (Travel CUTS, STA Travel, etc. – Council Travel if you’re desperate) agency affiliates on the ground in Turkey. They’ll speak English, are quite reliable, and will know about the various options better than anyone out of the country. They are able to sell non-student tickets. When in Turkey we were able to buy cheap last-minute one-ways from these places with ease. My biggest concern is that this is in August and while I have 6 days in IST, I have only given an overnight back in germany to catch a trans-Atlantic flight that is date fixed.

By all means call them now (well, in about 10 hours). It costs 24 cents/minute to call Turkey with 1016868, so it won’t break the bank. The fares you were seeing were on scheduled flights or charters (that I cant search for) ?

We flew regular flights on Turk Hava Yollari or whatever Turkish Airways is called domestically. Did they also have cheap fares to Ephesus… on the Turkish air site its just over $200 return, not bad I guess really.

The most we paid was about $70 from Adana to Istanbul on the way back from Syria. That’s about 450 miles so if it’s any benchmark (I have no idea how fares are structured) you shouldn’t expect to be paying all that much. We took an overnight bus from Istanbul to Selcuk so don’t know about the fares for that. Also, we were there a couple years ago, so things may be different now. But it’s definitely worth making the phone call. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

Try telephoning the student travel (Travel CUTS, STA Travel, etc. – Council Travel if you’re desperate) agency affiliates on the ground in Turkey. They’ll speak English, are quite reliable, and will know about the various options better than anyone out of the country. They are able to sell non-student tickets. When in Turkey we were able to buy cheap last-minute one-ways from these places with ease. My biggest concern is that this is in August and while I have 6 days in IST, I have only given an overnight back in germany to catch a trans-Atlantic flight that is date fixed. By all means call them now (well, in about 10 hours). It costs 24 cents/minute to call Turkey with 1016868, so it won’t break the bank.

Thanx for this reference… I went to their site… are there really no hidden charges… is it telephony or ISP, ie. quality ? My traveling mate is a student and is currently in Germany, I directed him tho the specific STA site in Germany to make inquiries (as were returning to Germany) but there is no STA site for Turkey, so I’m not sure how I can get a local IST,STA Affiliate phone number… jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi- Im looking for help with summertime discount prices on air from Istanbul back to Germany, (one-way)… preferably Berlin, but Frankfurt would do as well. My choices seem to be Turkish Air, Czech Air and Azerbaijan Airlines but the cheapest fare is over $400 one way back to Berlin… but flights.com does not have detail flight info on the latter two and Turkish Air site will only display business class and only 3 months out ($700)… so I dont give much value to that $400 either. Are there any scheduled charters, consolidators, travel agents that you could suggest for this 3 hour flight… Im thinking like $200 for this trip… is this not realistic ? Thanx. jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002

There are always a lot of charters between Turkey and Germany (where most Turkish people outside of Turkey live). Take a look at www.oegertours.de a touroperator on the German market, founded by a Turk and specialized on Turkey. If you are in Berlin prior to your trip to Turkey, you can easily find a ticket to IST for about 200Euro round trip. Just take a walk in the Kreuzberg area, there are zillions of Turkish travel agencies! If you want to purchase a flight in the last minute (i.e. at least 2 weeks prior to departure), check out www.ltur.de or www.lastminute.de or www.5vorflug.de I flew Izmir-Istanbul myself (Izmir is the closest airport to Ephesos) and in 1999, the flight was way less than $200 (one way). We flew with TK as well. HTH Tatjana in Berlin

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Thanx very much for this info jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi- Im looking for help with summertime discount prices on air from Istanbul back to Germany, (one-way)… preferably Berlin, but Frankfurt would do as well. My choices seem to be Turkish Air, Czech Air and Azerbaijan Airlines but the cheapest fare is over $400 one way back to Berlin… but flights.com does not have detail flight info on the latter two and Turkish Air site will only display business class and only 3 months out ($700)… so I dont give much value to that $400 either. Are there any scheduled charters, consolidators, travel agents that you could suggest for this 3 hour flight… Im thinking like $200 for this trip… is this not realistic ? Thanx. jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002 There are always a lot of charters between Turkey and Germany (where most Turkish people outside of Turkey live). Take a look at www.oegertours.de a touroperator on the German market, founded by a Turk and specialized on Turkey. If you are in Berlin prior to your trip to Turkey, you can easily find a ticket to IST for about 200Euro round trip. Just take a walk in the Kreuzberg area, there are zillions of Turkish travel agencies! If you want to purchase a flight in the last minute (i.e. at least 2 weeks prior to departure), check out www.ltur.de or www.lastminute.de or www.5vorflug.de I flew Izmir-Istanbul myself (Izmir is the closest airport to Ephesos) and in 1999, the flight was way less than $200 (one way). We flew with TK as well. HTH Tatjana in Berlin

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

By all means call them now (well, in about 10 hours). It costs 24 cents/minute to call Turkey with 1016868, so it won’t break the bank. Thanx for this reference… I went to their site… are there really no hidden charges… is it telephony or ISP, ie. quality ?

I’ve been using it ever since my previous long distance company went bankrupt (!) just because I’ve been too lazy to sign up with anyone else. The quality seems fine, and they don’t charge any special fees or minimums (other than the federal taxes that all long distance companies are required to charge). It’s not as cheap as the cheapest carriers, but for 10c/min to the Netherlands and 12c to Australia, it solves my problems. My traveling mate is a student and is currently in Germany, I directed him tho the specific STA site in Germany to make inquiries (as were returning to Germany) but there is no STA site for Turkey, so I’m not sure how I can get a local IST,STA Affiliate phone number…

I dug up the receipt from the place we used in Istanbul; it was called Genctur (for what it’s worth, they pronounce the C like a J). It was within walking distance of the Aya Sofia in the Sultanahmet area; the phone number is +90 212 520 5274. I had initially gotten their number from the Travel CUTS (Canadian student travel org) site. miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

My traveling mate is a student and is currently in Germany, I directed him tho the specific STA site in Germany to make inquiries (as were returning to Germany) but there is no STA site for Turkey, so I’m not sure how I can get a local IST,STA Affiliate phone number… I dug up the receipt from the place we used in Istanbul; it was called Genctur (for what it’s worth, they pronounce the C like a J). It was within walking distance of the Aya Sofia in the Sultanahmet area; the phone number is +90 212 520 5274. I had initially gotten their number from the Travel CUTS (Canadian student travel org) site.

Thanx so much for your efforts, Im sure it will be a very good resource for getting beyond this hurdle. jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002 miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

– Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi- Im looking for help with summertime discount prices on air from Istanbul back to Germany, (one-way)… preferably Berlin, but Frankfurt would do as well. My choices seem to be Turkish Air, Czech Air and Azerbaijan Airlines but the cheapest fare is over $400 one way back to Berlin… but flights.com does not have detail flight info on the latter two and Turkish Air site will only display business class and only 3 months out ($700)… so I dont give much value to that $400 either. Are there any scheduled charters, consolidators, travel agents that you could suggest for this 3 hour flight… Im thinking like $200 for this trip… is this not realistic ? Thanx. jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

I’m an American who booked my vacation via a travel agency/tour wholesaler in Germany.  It was much cheaper for me this way.  I flew on Free Bird Airlines which is a charter airline that flies from Berlin to Istanbul non-stop.  Berlin is home to the largest Turkish population outside of Turkey.  The airline was decent although I felt uncomfortable being that I was the only  Asian-American on the flight.  You can contact TurkTur for great deals.  They speak English and have good rates with Free Bird Airlines.  www.turktur.de

Response:

I flew on Free Bird Airlines which is a charter airline that flies from Berlin to Istanbul non-stop.  Berlin is home to the largest Turkish population outside of Turkey.  The airline was decent although I felt uncomfortable being that I was the only Asian-American on the flight.

Why? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Response:

I’m an American who booked my vacation via a travel agency/tour wholesaler in Germany.  It was much cheaper for me this way.  I flew on Free Bird Airlines which is a charter airline that flies from Berlin to Istanbul non-stop. Berlin is home to the largest Turkish population outside of Turkey.  The airline was decent although I felt uncomfortable being that I was the only Asian-American on the flight.  You can contact TurkTur for great deals.  They speak English and have good rates with Free Bird Airlines.  www.turktur.de

Free Bird Airlines??? Never ever heard of them. BTW are you sure about the link? There is a Turkish site that appears with Turkish MP3s for download…… Could it be http://www.tuerktur.de/ ??? Tatjana in Berlin

Response:

Turk Hava Yollari (Turkish Airlines) IST  FRA 1587 A313 Airbus  Y 0 8:35 AM 10:40 AM Total price ow pp including taxes is 396.00 USD. http://airtravelcenter.com/atcbrokerww.htm Istanbul (IST) – Amsterdam (AMS) 06.00 – 13 MAR 2002 08.35 – 13 MAR 2002 Klm Royal Dutch Airlines 1610 S  Amsterdam (AMS) – Berlin (TXL) 09.40 – 13 MAR 2002 10.55 – 13 MAR 2002 Klm Royal Dutch Airlines 1823 S USD 385.00 TAX USD 27.57 USD 412.57 http://airtravelcenter.com/tselect.htm more options via http://airtravelcenter.com/flyeurope.html — Air Travel Center on the web airtravelcenter.com email over the air airtravelcenter.ch voice wire 1-717-732-7222 1-800-931-7222 data wire 1-717-728-1269 snail mail 1 East Manor Avenue (rear bldg) Enola, Pa. US 17025-2822

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi- Im looking for help with summertime discount prices on air from Istanbul back to Germany, (one-way)… preferably Berlin, but Frankfurt would do as well. My choices seem to be Turkish Air, Czech Air and Azerbaijan Airlines but the cheapest fare is over $400 one way back to Berlin… but flights.com does not have detail flight info on the latter two and Turkish Air site will only display business class and only 3 months out ($700)… so I dont give much value to that $400 either. Are there any scheduled charters, consolidators, travel agents that you could suggest for this 3 hour flight… Im thinking like $200 for this trip… is this not realistic ? Thanx. jay Sun, Feb 10, 2002 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m an American who booked my vacation via a travel agency/tour wholesaler in Germany.  It was much cheaper for me this way.  I flew on Free Bird Airlines which is a charter airline that flies from Berlin to Istanbul non-stop. Berlin is home to the largest Turkish population outside of Turkey.  The airline was decent although I felt uncomfortable being that I was the only Asian-American on the flight.  You can contact TurkTur for great deals.  They speak English and have good rates with Free Bird Airlines.  www.turktur.de Free Bird Airlines??? Never ever heard of them. BTW are you sure about the link? There is a Turkish site that appears with Turkish MP3s for download…… Could it be http://www.tuerktur.de/ ??? Tatjana in Berlin

It’s a pretty good airline, actually.  They fly only twice a week from Tegel. The service was good, not so friendly, but then I’m already used to that flying with Lufthansa.  The food was okay too.  For a three hour flight, it was well worth the money.  Most of the passengers were Turks going back home.  I don’t think they cater to tourists as most Germans would prefer staying somewhere along the coast than Istanbul. The tour operator (TurkTur) was really cheap.  We stayed at a Best Western for five days with breakfast including airfare for only $275.00 per person (travel industry rate).  With the dollar being high against the DM at the time and Turkey’s devalued currency it was a real bargain for me. I hope the dollar stays high as I plan to go back to Berlin later this year.  What a beautiful

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s a pretty good airline, actually.  They fly only twice a week from Tegel. The service was good, not so friendly, but then I’m already used to that flying with Lufthansa.  The food was okay too.  For a three hour flight, it was well worth the money.  Most of the passengers were Turks going back home.  I don’t think they cater to tourists as most Germans would prefer staying somewhere along the coast than Istanbul. The tour operator (TurkTur) was really cheap.  We stayed at a Best Western for five days with breakfast including airfare for only $275.00 per person (travel industry rate).  With the dollar being high against the DM at the time and Turkey’s devalued currency it was a real bargain for me. I hope the dollar stays high as I plan to go back to Berlin later this year.  What a beautiful

Thanx for you input! Do you happen to know what days they RETURN to Berlin from IST (I only need return passage) ? Do you think I will have to buy a round trip ticket and discard one of the legs or will they sell a one-way ticket without a substantial penalty ? Thanx Again! jay Mon, Feb 11, 2002 — Legend insists that as he finished his abject… Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanx for you input! Do you happen to know what days they RETURN to Berlin from IST (I only need return passage) ? Do you think I will have to buy a round trip ticket and discard one of the legs or will they sell a one-way ticket without a substantial penalty ? Thanx Again! jay Mon, Feb 11, 2002 —

I believe you can purchase a one-way ticket, although sometimes it’s cheaper to book roundtrip and discard the return leg.  You might want to check with them on that.  As for the schedules, they fly on the same days from IST to Berlin TXL; they simply do a turnaround in Berlin.  They might change their schedule as the season has changed.    I think booking through them is much cheaper than a scheduled airline.  Plus, they offer nonstop service.  They operate on a MD-80 aircraft with meals and all, even though it’s only for three hours or so.  I think you can also see how the airline looks like on the Internet.  I was hesitate to fly with them as first.  I thought I would be flying with chickens in the cabin, but it’s like a regular airline. Hope this helps!

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Question:

Based on the Thalys website, it seems that buying a "mini" round trip ticket is cheaper than buying a one-way ticket. Since I am only travelling one-way from Amsterdam to Paris, I was wondering if it would actually be cheaper to buy a "mini" round trip. If so, could I pass my return ticket on to someone in Paris who might want to travel one-way to Amsterdam for cheap? Or have I misunderstood the pricing on the website completely? Thanks.

Nah, you’ve got it.  Thalys, because it competes to a certain extent with air travel, uses airline-style pricing models.  It’s therefore not impossible that a RT is cheaper than an OW.  No names on train tickets, so nothing to stop you giving the RT half to someone who wants to use it – you may be infringing some rule by selling it, though. Peter

Response:

Based on the Thalys website, it seems that buying a "mini" round trip ticket is cheaper than buying a one-way ticket. Since I am only travelling one-way from Amsterdam to Paris, I was wondering if it would actually be cheaper to buy a "mini" round trip.

Provided you manage to get a "mini" ticket (they’re available in limited numbers) yes. If so, could I pass my return ticket on to someone in Paris who might want to travel one-way to Amsterdam for cheap?

Probably, but be aware that Gare du Nord in Paris is very closely watched by all kind of police forces, and that you might appear very suspect to them by trying to sell the return legg of your ticket. It would therefore be advisable to find a buyer in advance. JL.

Response:

Thanks. So does anyone know of online bulletin boards that may facilitate this kind of ticket sharing? Also, if I wanted to get from Amsterdam to Paris by a train other than Thalys, what are my options – and how much cheaper would it be? — Sent via BritishExpats Forums: http://britishexpats.com

Response:

Also, if I wanted to get from Amsterdam to Paris by a train other than Thalys, what are my options

I don’t know, but I would guess that there are not many. You are likely to pay more for a much longer journey. and how much cheaper would it be?

I don’t think you can get anything cheaper than the mini tariff by train. Try looking for coach prices, they may be cheaper. JL.

Response:

Based on the Thalys website, it seems that buying a "mini" round trip ticket is cheaper than buying a one-way ticket. Since I am only travelling one-way from Amsterdam to Paris, I was wondering if it would actually be cheaper to buy a "mini" round trip. If so, could I pass my return ticket on to someone in Paris who might want to travel one-way to Amsterdam for cheap? Or have I misunderstood the pricing on the website completely? Thanks. — Sent via BritishExpats Forums: http://britishexpats.com

Response:

Based on the Thalys website, it seems that buying a "mini" round trip ticket is cheaper than buying a one-way ticket. Since I am only travelling one-way from Amsterdam to Paris, I was wondering if it would actually be cheaper to buy a "mini" round trip. If so, could I pass my return ticket on to someone in Paris who might want to travel one-way to Amsterdam for cheap? Or have I misunderstood the pricing on the website completely? Thanks. — Sent via BritishExpats Forums: http://britishexpats.com

Response:

Based on the Thalys website, it seems that buying a "mini" round trip ticket is cheaper than buying a one-way ticket. Since I am only travelling one-way from Amsterdam to Paris, I was wondering if it would actually be cheaper to buy a "mini" round trip. If so, could I pass my return ticket on to someone in Paris who might want to travel one-way to Amsterdam for cheap? Or have I misunderstood the pricing on the website completely? Thanks.

Nah, you’ve got it.  Thalys, because it competes to a certain extent with air travel, uses airline-style pricing models.  It’s therefore not impossible that a RT is cheaper than an OW.  No names on train tickets, so nothing to stop you giving the RT half to someone who wants to use it – you may be infringing some rule by selling it, though. Peter

Response:

Based on the Thalys website, it seems that buying a "mini" round trip ticket is cheaper than buying a one-way ticket. Since I am only travelling one-way from Amsterdam to Paris, I was wondering if it would actually be cheaper to buy a "mini" round trip.

Provided you manage to get a "mini" ticket (they’re available in limited numbers) yes. If so, could I pass my return ticket on to someone in Paris who might want to travel one-way to Amsterdam for cheap?

Probably, but be aware that Gare du Nord in Paris is very closely watched by all kind of police forces, and that you might appear very suspect to them by trying to sell the return legg of your ticket. It would therefore be advisable to find a buyer in advance. JL.

Response:

Thanks. So does anyone know of online bulletin boards that may facilitate this kind of ticket sharing? Also, if I wanted to get from Amsterdam to Paris by a train other than Thalys, what are my options – and how much cheaper would it be? — Sent via BritishExpats Forums: http://britishexpats.com

Response:

Also, if I wanted to get from Amsterdam to Paris by a train other than Thalys, what are my options

I don’t know, but I would guess that there are not many. You are likely to pay more for a much longer journey. and how much cheaper would it be?

I don’t think you can get anything cheaper than the mini tariff by train. Try looking for coach prices, they may be cheaper. JL.

Response: